HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

colorado/washington proposal

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-24-2004, 11:34 AM
  #1
demitra382003
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8
vCash: 500
colorado/washington proposal

I've read somewhere that the Avs now have 7 d-men and something about Derrick Morris being the odd one out so I got to thinking that maybe he would be traded in a blockbuster so here are a couple of scenarios:

To Washington: Derrick Morris
To Colorado: Sergei Gonchar

You might add a pick, but for the most part, this benefits both teams. Wash gets a great young d-man and colorado gets one of the top 5 dmen in the league, argueably the best offensive d man, so for that reason, maybe colorado would add a 3rd rounder as well

To Washington: Derrick Morris, Phillipe Sauve, Keith Ballard
To Colorado: Gonchar and Kolzig

This may be a bit off but I think its got the foundation for a trade that would benefit both teams

Thoughts?

demitra382003 is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 11:43 AM
  #2
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
My issue with this

Quote:
Originally Posted by demitra382003
I've read somewhere that the Avs now have 7 d-men and something about Derrick Morris being the odd one out so I got to thinking that maybe he would be traded in a blockbuster so here are a couple of scenarios:

To Washington: Derrick Morris
To Colorado: Sergei Gonchar

You might add a pick, but for the most part, this benefits both teams. Wash gets a great young d-man and colorado gets one of the top 5 dmen in the league, argueably the best offensive d man, so for that reason, maybe colorado would add a 3rd rounder as well

To Washington: Derrick Morris, Phillipe Sauve, Keith Ballard
To Colorado: Gonchar and Kolzig

This may be a bit off but I think its got the foundation for a trade that would benefit both teams

Thoughts?

Where is the benefit for Washington straight up? Morris is overpaid at $3.5 million. Yes the Caps get younger, but the salary washes away the benefit of the youth.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 12:04 PM
  #3
Zodiac
Registered User
 
Zodiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,922
vCash: 500
I'm more than happy to keep Morris. I don't see the point of trading him at all. The Avs are pretty deep on defence for the first time in a long time. Why mess with it?


Gonchar is probably due to make like $6million after this season. Screw that.


Morris is also around 5 years younger.

Zodiac is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 12:33 PM
  #4
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 5,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by demitra382003
I've read somewhere that the Avs now have 7 d-men and something about Derrick Morris being the odd one out so I got to thinking that maybe he would be traded in a blockbuster so here are a couple of scenarios:

To Washington: Derrick Morris
To Colorado: Sergei Gonchar

You might add a pick, but for the most part, this benefits both teams. Wash gets a great young d-man and colorado gets one of the top 5 dmen in the league, argueably the best offensive d man, so for that reason, maybe colorado would add a 3rd rounder as well

To Washington: Derrick Morris, Phillipe Sauve, Keith Ballard
To Colorado: Gonchar and Kolzig

This may be a bit off but I think its got the foundation for a trade that would benefit both teams

Thoughts?
bad proposal, considering that in another thread, several Caps fans were offering Kolzig, Carter, and Gonchar/Witt in exchange for Morris.

AvsGuy is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 12:42 PM
  #5
jincargo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 521
vCash: 500
Im not sure why any other Caps fans would want Morris. He makes 100k less than Gonchar right now....not the answer financialy.

Gonchar for Ballard, Krestanovich and a 2nd would work for me.

If not Ballard; then Boychuk or Liles would work fine.

jincargo is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 12:46 PM
  #6
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,565
vCash: 500
I actually think Morris holds higher trade value than Gonchar....Sergei has aribitration rights, and is 29.....Morris is an ex-captain, and 24.

Enoch is online now  
Old
02-24-2004, 01:11 PM
  #7
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
bad proposal, considering that in another thread, several Caps fans were offering Kolzig, Carter, and Gonchar/Witt in exchange for Morris.
No sane Caps fan was making that offer. Must be a Toronto/NJ fan in disguise trying to drive Gonchar's value down.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 01:15 PM
  #8
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
Ya know...until this post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I actually think Morris holds higher trade value than Gonchar....Sergei has aribitration rights, and is 29.....Morris is an ex-captain, and 24.
I actually thought you had a good head on your shouders, with 4500+ posts.

MORRIS HAS NEVER CRACKED 50PTS!!! He's a 30+ point dman, with inflated stats last season after getting moved to Colorado.

Absurd...stop the insanity....SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 01:16 PM
  #9
EroCaps
Registered User
 
EroCaps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout
Im not sure why any other Caps fans would want Morris. He makes 100k less than Gonchar right now....not the answer financialy.

Gonchar for Ballard, Krestanovich and a 2nd would work for me.

If not Ballard; then Boychuk or Liles would work fine.
It would? No offense, but those deals are awful.

I'd want Liles and Ballard to start.

EroCaps is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 01:16 PM
  #10
AvsGuy
Registered User
 
AvsGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina, Sk
Posts: 5,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout
Im not sure why any other Caps fans would want Morris. He makes 100k less than Gonchar right now....not the answer financialy.

Gonchar for Ballard, Krestanovich and a 2nd would work for me.

If not Ballard; then Boychuk or Liles would work fine.
i'd do Boychuk, Krestanovich, and a 2nd for Gonchar.

AvsGuy is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 02:43 PM
  #11
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,565
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
I actually thought you had a good head on your shouders, with 4500+ posts.

MORRIS HAS NEVER CRACKED 50PTS!!! He's a 30+ point dman, with inflated stats last season after getting moved to Colorado.

Absurd...stop the insanity....SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I'll give you my reasoning.

1.) Obviously age. Gonchar could be nothing less than a playoff rental. At 29, he is an RFA, and will most likely be going to Arbitration....thats not a good thing. Gonchar could very well be awarded 5 - 7 mil. On top of that....there is no guarantee that he will resign, and thus I would rather have Morris...who I know I have for 6 more years.

2.) Salary, like I outlined in the previous point.....Gonchar could be getting a gigantic raise, whereas Morris will not.

3.) Style of play: Morris is a two-way defensemen. He brings a physical edge to his game that Gonchar simply cannot. I also believe he is better in the defensive end, then Gonchar. This is in no way taking away from Gonchar who is probably the best offensive d-man in the league.

Bascially, that is my reasons. Gonchar could be a playoff rental, and nothing more...Morris will be with a team for a long time. I'm not ripping Gonchar because I believe he has very high trade value, to some teams, however Morris is one of the best young dmen in the league.

I also find your 50 point argument VERY WEAK. Morris had 48 points last season in 75 games.....and if you look back at his days, even in Calgary, he hovered near 40 points each year...despite being out with injuries..

Enoch is online now  
Old
02-24-2004, 02:43 PM
  #12
kyle
Registered User
 
kyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by demitra382003
I've read somewhere that the Avs now have 7 d-men and something about Derrick Morris being the odd one out so I got to thinking that maybe he would be traded in a blockbuster so here are a couple of scenarios:

To Washington: Derrick Morris
To Colorado: Sergei Gonchar

Thoughts?
If Colorado has too many defensemen, why are they doing a 1-for-1 swap on defense?

kyle is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 02:53 PM
  #13
st_roland
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: BUSH CONTRY-Frederick, MD
Posts: 1,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout
Im not sure why any other Caps fans would want Morris. He makes 100k less than Gonchar right now....not the answer financialy.

Gonchar for Ballard, Krestanovich and a 2nd would work for me.

If not Ballard; then Boychuk or Liles would work fine.

You'd do Boychuk, Krestanovich and a 2nd for Gonchar? Are you sure you a caps fan? Jesus, your expectations are way too low my friend. If the trade goes down, we're getting at LEAST Carlo and a 1st type value.

st_roland is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 03:04 PM
  #14
jincargo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 521
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
You'd do Boychuk, Krestanovich and a 2nd for Gonchar? Are you sure you a caps fan? Jesus, your expectations are way too low my friend. If the trade goes down, we're getting at LEAST Carlo and a 1st type value.
Im just not feeling very optomistic today about Gonchar's return....that's all. If Toronto decised to bail out...NJ isnt going to budge on much...and that leaves Colorado to squeeze out the best deal for them.

I actually have a high reguard for Boychuk. He's going to be a good player. Ballard would be nice...but Im not holding my breath.

Caps fans need to realize that our players arent the best thing since sliced bread and everyother GM out there knows Ted wants to slash the payroll...reguardless of how GMGM is trying to spin the "Hockey Deal" angle.

Gonchar should fetch the most return out of all the possible Caps....Im just not going to start holding my breath anymore.

jincargo is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 04:44 PM
  #15
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
Let me repsond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I'll give you my reasoning.

1.) Obviously age. Gonchar could be nothing less than a playoff rental. At 29, he is an RFA, and will most likely be going to Arbitration....thats not a good thing. Gonchar could very well be awarded 5 - 7 mil. On top of that....there is no guarantee that he will resign, and thus I would rather have Morris...who I know I have for 6 more years.

2.) Salary, like I outlined in the previous point.....Gonchar could be getting a gigantic raise, whereas Morris will not.

3.) Style of play: Morris is a two-way defensemen. He brings a physical edge to his game that Gonchar simply cannot. I also believe he is better in the defensive end, then Gonchar. This is in no way taking away from Gonchar who is probably the best offensive d-man in the league.

Bascially, that is my reasons. Gonchar could be a playoff rental, and nothing more...Morris will be with a team for a long time. I'm not ripping Gonchar because I believe he has very high trade value, to some teams, however Morris is one of the best young dmen in the league.

I also find your 50 point argument VERY WEAK. Morris had 48 points last season in 75 games.....and if you look back at his days, even in Calgary, he hovered near 40 points each year...despite being out with injuries..


1. What idiot would trade major assets for a playoff rental? NJ or Toronto or whomever better be locking Gonchar up long term, or they are fools. Gonchar won't get $7 million...likey $5-$6.

2. Who knows what the UFA age will be....it very well could be 27-28, thus Morris would be an UFA sooner.

3. Maybe so...but Gonchar's offensive abilities so far outweigh the slight edge in the defensive end...at worst Gonchar is still considered by peers and hockey minds as one of the best defensemen in the league...where as Morris...he's not.

Look, this is all conjecture (on both of our parts). Anyone smart enough to land Gonchar, better be smart enough to lock him up long term. Only a fool would NOT do that. Morris is also 25, 26 in August, so you may only have him 2 more seasons not 6 more years.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 04:46 PM
  #16
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
Well

Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout
Im just not feeling very optomistic today about Gonchar's return....that's all. If Toronto decised to bail out...NJ isnt going to budge on much...and that leaves Colorado to squeeze out the best deal for them.

I actually have a high reguard for Boychuk. He's going to be a good player. Ballard would be nice...but Im not holding my breath.

Caps fans need to realize that our players arent the best thing since sliced bread and everyother GM out there knows Ted wants to slash the payroll...reguardless of how GMGM is trying to spin the "Hockey Deal" angle.

Gonchar should fetch the most return out of all the possible Caps....Im just not going to start holding my breath anymore.
I think you're getting jaded because this has been dragging on for a while....when has Mcphee....EVER taken the short side of a trade? NEVER!

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 04:54 PM
  #17
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,565
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
1. What idiot would trade major assets for a playoff rental? NJ or Toronto or whomever better be locking Gonchar up long term, or they are fools. Gonchar won't get $7 million...likey $5-$6.

2. Who knows what the UFA age will be....it very well could be 27-28, thus Morris would be an UFA sooner.

3. Maybe so...but Gonchar's offensive abilities so far outweigh the slight edge in the defensive end...at worst Gonchar is still considered by peers and hockey minds as one of the best defensemen in the league...where as Morris...he's not.

Look, this is all conjecture (on both of our parts). Anyone smart enough to land Gonchar, better be smart enough to lock him up long term. Only a fool would NOT do that. Morris is also 25, 26 in August, so you may only have him 2 more seasons not 6 more years.
Gonchar, if I read correctly on these boards, has already indicated he may use his arbitration rights. Since these are based purely on statistics, it would be a surprise for me to see him get 7 million. The arbitrator looks at what comprable players of his talent are making, and awards him that......this most defnitely means there is a chance he could be making anywhere from 5 - 8 million.

The new CBA isn't in place. Right now, at 25, Morris will be an RFA for 5 years past this season. Thats 5 seasons....not 2.

I do agree, however, that if your going to trade major assets for Gonchar......you better lock him up long term. How are you going to know if you can, though? Thats my entire point. If Gonchar was under contract or if he didn't have pending free agency coming up, then I would say he has more value than Morris. As it stands, I wouldn't risk trading Morris for Gonchar straight up. My team gets older, more offensive but much less defensive, it loses a physical edge, AND it gets much more expensive. Looking at it like that, I see no reason for the Avs to trade Morris for Gonchar.

On a sidenote, I weigh salary heavily, this day and age, when considering a players trade value. Hope that makes sense.


Last edited by Enoch: 02-24-2004 at 10:01 PM. Reason: had is, instead of isn't
Enoch is online now  
Old
02-24-2004, 05:37 PM
  #18
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
huh? What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Gonchar, if I read correctly on these boards, has already indicated he may use his arbitration rights. Since these are based purely on statistics, it would be a surprise for me to see him get 7 million. The arbitrator looks at what comprable players of his talent are making, and awards him that......this most defnitely means there is a chance he could be making anywhere from 5 - 8 million.

The new CBA is in place. Right now, at 25, Morris will be an RFA for 5 years past this season. Thats 5 seasons....not 2.

I do agree, however, that if your going to trade major assets for Gonchar......you better lock him up long term. How are you going to know if you can, though? Thats my entire point. If Gonchar was under contract or if he didn't have pending free agency coming up, then I would say he has more value than Morris. As it stands, I wouldn't risk trading Morris for Gonchar straight up. My team gets older, more offensive but much less defensive, it loses a physical edge, AND it gets much more expensive. Looking at it like that, I see no reason for the Avs to trade Morris for Gonchar.

On a sidenote, I weigh salary heavily, this day and age, when considering a players trade value. Hope that makes sense.
The new CBA is in place? Did we all miss a press release? There is no NEW CBA in place....you have absolutely no idea what the UFA age will be. Don't think that the owners won't have to lower the age from 31 SIGNIFICANTLY if they want some sort of cap. Look I assume, whatever (if any) team that makes a trade for Gonchar will have preliminary talks with his agent to discuss a long term deal. Possibly a team/player option with a buyout of some type. If they don't like I said, they are foolish.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 06:13 PM
  #19
andora
Registered User
 
andora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Illuminating Prince
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,031
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to andora
big fat no from colorado's end IMO

andora is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 08:13 PM
  #20
wazee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by demitra382003
To Washington: Derrick Morris, Phillipe Sauve, Keith Ballard
To Colorado: Gonchar and Kolzig

Thoughts?
I think Pierre Lacroix would have to give that offer some serious thought. It would certainly increase their chances for winning the Cup this year. And if the UFA age is lowered in the new CBA, as I expect it will be, the difference in age between Morris and Gonchar is not as big a factor. I would lean towards doing this deal..

wazee is offline  
Old
02-24-2004, 10:01 PM
  #21
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,565
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
The new CBA is in place? Did we all miss a press release? There is no NEW CBA in place....you have absolutely no idea what the UFA age will be.
I meant to say there isn't a CBA in place. If you read my post, you will see that that was the message behind it. It was a simple error, due to the board crashing, and me having to retype my entire message.

Good day.

Enoch is online now  
Old
02-24-2004, 10:58 PM
  #22
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,083
vCash: 500
fair enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I meant to say there isn't a CBA in place. If you read my post, you will see that that was the message behind it. It was a simple error, due to the board crashing, and me having to retype my entire message.

Good day.
I was wondering what in the world you were talking about.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 11:58 AM
  #23
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakic20
How about this trade?

Washington geterek Morris,Johnny Boychuk,Riku Hahl,Brad Larsen,Mikael Kuleshov and 1st,2nd and 3rd round pick of the Avs

for

Colorado get:Sergei Gonchar,Olaf Kolzig,Jeff Halpern,Brian Sutherby and 1st round pick of the Caps for draft Alexander Ovechkin

Thoughts?
this seems like a seriously bad proposal for the Caps to me... any thoughts of giving up the 1st this year makes zero sense for the Caps... and the best young prospect mentioned here is Sutherby.... just seems like it defeats what the Caps would be trying to accomplish by moving Gonchar and Kolzig.

I don't see the Avs having any interest in Gonchar at all... what's the need?? they have Blake, Foote, Morris, Skrastins, Boughner, Sauer, Liles on defense as is... there is enough offensive firepower on that team as well not to need Gonchar, and even on the backend, having Blake and Morris provides all the offense they need to compliment their forwards...

the only reasoning I can see them wanting to make a trade like this is to maybe move one of their right handed dmen (would have to be Morris, since Blake and Foote aren't moving) for a top left handed one - but not sure if this is even a consideration for the Avs...

otherwise they are deep and stacked on defense to have no need to give up the youth they have for another asset that doesn't even address any weaknesses.

NFITO is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 12:20 PM
  #24
st_roland
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: BUSH CONTRY-Frederick, MD
Posts: 1,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
this seems like a seriously bad proposal for the Caps to me... any thoughts of giving up the 1st this year makes zero sense for the Caps... and the best young prospect mentioned here is Sutherby.... just seems like it defeats what the Caps would be trying to accomplish by moving Gonchar and Kolzig.

I don't see the Avs having any interest in Gonchar at all... what's the need?? they have Blake, Foote, Morris, Skrastins, Boughner, Sauer, Liles on defense as is... there is enough offensive firepower on that team as well not to need Gonchar, and even on the backend, having Blake and Morris provides all the offense they need to compliment their forwards...

the only reasoning I can see them wanting to make a trade like this is to maybe move one of their right handed dmen (would have to be Morris, since Blake and Foote aren't moving) for a top left handed one - but not sure if this is even a consideration for the Avs...

otherwise they are deep and stacked on defense to have no need to give up the youth they have for another asset that doesn't even address any weaknesses.
Please dont feed the animals Nuckfan(if you read the COL board with any frequency, you'd know what I mean).

st_roland is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 12:59 PM
  #25
ehc73
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,943
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to ehc73
Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
Please dont feed the animals Nuckfan(if you read the COL board with any frequency, you'd know what I mean).
These kinds of crazyass proposals are regular on the COL board? If so, I need to start visiting it more frequently for amusement purposes.

ehc73 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.