HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Stl/min

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-22-2008, 01:48 PM
  #26
Bluester
Registered User
 
Bluester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kansas City, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 960
vCash: 500
No you all currently don't understand is the blues are building the team the right way. We're not at the spot yet were we should start pawning off our prospects for players. Davidson has said time and time again that we're building from within. Our young player crop is just now starting to come up and probably be ready for the NHL. That also doesn't account for the deep draft of 09. That is why you have so many Blues fans saying no thanks.

Bluester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2008, 01:55 PM
  #27
Bleed Blue
 
Bleed Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ballwin, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluester View Post
No you all currently don't understand is the blues are building the team the right way. We're not at the spot yet were we should start pawning off our prospects for players. Davidson has said time and time again that we're building from within. Our young player crop is just now starting to come up and probably be ready for the NHL. That also doesn't account for the deep draft of 09. That is why you have so many Blues fans saying no thanks.
yup JD is taking the same approach as the tampa bay rays gm. Building with youth and every year getting closer and closer. and every one on the rays is really young. with a little touch of veterans. exactly what the blues are doing. i think its a great approach.

Bleed Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2008, 11:44 PM
  #28
Oshie97
Registered User
 
Oshie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,360
vCash: 500
The Blues wouldn't even trade Oshie strait up for Gabby. JD would laugh his ars off at this proposal.


Last edited by Oshie97: 09-23-2008 at 12:01 AM.
Oshie97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 02:08 AM
  #29
Bluester
Registered User
 
Bluester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kansas City, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
The Blues wouldn't even trade Oshie strait up for Gabby. JD would laugh his ars off at this proposal.
Please don't post in here if you're not going to bring logic to the conversation.

Bluester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 05:39 AM
  #30
Pure Slaughter Value
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 1,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Pure Slaughter Value
If Gaborik's signed I think JD's smart enough to know that this isn't a bad offer. Very tempting. Berglund's right behind Oshie on the depth chart and Eller's replaced by Gaborik. The 2nd rounder is a crapshoot, even if the 2009 draft is supposed to be one of the best till 2010.

It's not bad value-wise, as St. Louis would get the best player for the life of Gaborik's contract (if he was signed prior to the trade).

But this is HF, so players with high ceilings that may never be touched are worth more than the premier players at their position in the league, so it's understandable why so many here think this offer is stupid.

As far as St. Louis' rebuilding is concerned, wouldn't you want some of the up and comers to be able to play with a superstar about to enter his prime? Is 26 years of age too old for a team that's rebuilding? Does this trade thoroughly deplete the Blues prospect pool?

Pure Slaughter Value is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 09:22 AM
  #31
Irish Blues
____________________
 
Irish Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: St Helena
Posts: 21,804
vCash: 91
"If he was signed, ......" - but if he was signed, would Minnesota trade him? If he's not signed, do you take a chance on dealing two highly-touted prospects for a guy who could walk at season's end and leave you with nothing?

__________________
No promises this time.
Irish Blues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 01:04 PM
  #32
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,275
vCash: 500
Sign and trade?

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 01:17 PM
  #33
Irish Blues
____________________
 
Irish Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: St Helena
Posts: 21,804
vCash: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKariyana View Post
Sign and trade?
1. Terms?
2. If Minnesota can get his name on a contract, why would they do a sign-and-trade and not just keep him?
3. If Gaborik really wanted to come to St. Louis, why would the Blues ship off two highly-touted prospects to get him instead of waiting until much closer to July 1?

Irish Blues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 03:07 PM
  #34
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
1. Terms?
2. If Minnesota can get his name on a contract, why would they do a sign-and-trade and not just keep him?
3. If Gaborik really wanted to come to St. Louis, why would the Blues ship off two highly-touted prospects to get him instead of waiting until much closer to July 1?
1. Terms, probably around 8 million a year, maybe less.

2. Because it's like the Hossa/Heatley trade. Gaborik is only willing to sign if they can ship him off to another team, hence sign and trade. Conditions apply to the team that he is signing with.

3. Because the Blues might be out of the race by July 1st. Minnesota could trade his rights to another team or trade him by the trade deadline in a sign and trade deal.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 03:52 PM
  #35
rumrokh
I Bleed Blue
 
rumrokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,562
vCash: 500
All of the sign-and-trade speculation is really out there. It has happened, but it's very rare, so a team isn't going to pre-emptively pursue a sign-and-trade to defend against another team working out a sign-and-trade for the same player.

Also, the Blues don't have enough cap-space for Gaborik right now. So unless a few more million goes back in the deal, you're already in dreamland. Edit: Yea, I see that they'd come in a few hundred thousand under the cap by dealing Oshie...still I don't think the Blues are going to do that. That gives them no wiggle room at the deadline. And if they keep any of their free agents (McDonald, for example), that puts them just a couple million from the cap for future seasons (pretty much exactly at it if his contract was for 8 million). Just doesn't seem like something they'd do, basically forcing themselves out of free agency and any deal or contract that would require some wiggle room. When you're trying to get back into the playoffs, that's essential.

Anyway...

In a vacuum, this is a solid deal in terms of value. But it's pretty ridiculous in every other respect.
If I were the Blues, even if they had the cap-space, I wouldn't do it. Not because I'm undervaluing Gaborik (I think he's one of the best game-breakers in the league), and not because I'm overvaluing the Blues' prospects. But because the Blues need centers badly. Both Oshie and Eller could end up being career wingers, but they also have strong potential to be top-six centers. If Berglund tops out as a second-line center, even with Gaborik under contract, the Blues would be kind of screwed.

They drafted centers in the first round for three straight years. There's a reason for that. They aren't going to trade away a third of their rebuild and two-thirds of their future center depth for a gigantic contract unless they are already a playoff team in pursuit of the final piece.

Besides, if you were Minnesota, would you trade Gaborik in-conference? And if you were Gaborik, would you want to strip the team you're going to of their assets when you could just sign with them in the summer instead?


Last edited by rumrokh: 09-23-2008 at 04:14 PM.
rumrokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 04:21 PM
  #36
Irish Blues
____________________
 
Irish Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: St Helena
Posts: 21,804
vCash: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKariyana View Post
1. Terms, probably around 8 million a year, maybe less.
Whether he's worth $8 million per year or not is open to debate to some here. I have no doubt he'll get at least that much on the open market - but if he was going to sign that cheaply, the Wild would gladly offer that contract to keep him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKariyana View Post
2. Because it's like the Hossa/Heatley trade. Gaborik is only willing to sign if they can ship him off to another team, hence sign and trade. Conditions apply to the team that he is signing with.
Go back and read my 1st post here. The Blues are not so desperate for help that they trade Eller and Oshie for him right now - if Gaborik really wants to come to St. Louis after this contract expires, there's no reason the Blues need to overpay right now when they can get him later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKariyana View Post
3. Because the Blues might be out of the race by July 1st. Minnesota could trade his rights to another team or trade him by the trade deadline in a sign and trade deal.
If Gaborik makes it near the trade deadline unsigned to an extension, there's a good chance he goes to July 1 unsigned as well unless the team acquiring him makes a ridiculous [read: $10 million or more per year] contract offer after the season ends. Of course, if the Wild are in playoff contention going into the deadline, there's not a snowball's chance in hell they trade him at the deadline ... which then brings up the, "sign him closer to July 1" scenario which almost assuredly will cost less.

Irish Blues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 05:23 PM
  #37
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Of course, if the Wild are in playoff contention going into the deadline, there's not a snowball's chance in hell they trade him at the deadline ... which then brings up the, "sign him closer to July 1" scenario which almost assuredly will cost less.
Nope, Minnesota will trade him at the deadline. They can't afford to lose him for free. DR has already done that this season with Rolston and Demitra.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2008, 08:22 PM
  #38
Irish Blues
____________________
 
Irish Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: St Helena
Posts: 21,804
vCash: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAKariyana View Post
Nope, Minnesota will trade him at the deadline. They can't afford to lose him for free. DR has already done that this season with Rolston and Demitra.
Even if the Wild are headed for the playoffs? I'll sit back and watch what happens.

Irish Blues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2008, 12:34 AM
  #39
Oshie97
Registered User
 
Oshie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluester View Post
Please don't post in here if you're not going to bring logic to the conversation.
Wow where's your logic. Blues trade Oshie strait to rent Gabby for a yr. But i'm the one missing the logic. Glad your not running the team!

Oshie97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2008, 03:48 AM
  #40
Bluester
Registered User
 
Bluester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kansas City, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
Wow where's your logic. Blues trade Oshie strait to rent Gabby for a yr. But i'm the one missing the logic. Glad your not running the team!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
The Blues wouldn't even trade Oshie strait up for Gabby. JD would laugh his ars off at this proposal.
To say you wouldn't trade Oshie (unproven NHL player) for Gaborik ( proven star).... I'll just put you in the same category as stemps. If I were you I wouldn't be questioning other peoples logic currently.

Bluester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2008, 03:02 PM
  #41
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Even if the Wild are headed for the playoffs? I'll sit back and watch what happens.
I wouldn't be surprised but Gaborik essentially ensures DR his job. If DR bungles up Gaborik talks and he walks, you can guarantee a major backlash not only with the fans and the media but with the owner. I can see Gaborik being traded at the deadline even if we are fighting for a playoff spot. Our prospect depth is very thin and DR has already played this game a couple times before and knows that Gaborik is much, much more important than Rolston and Demitra in terms of what he can get back and if he has to rebuild or not.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2008, 04:57 PM
  #42
WalterSobchak
Blues Trololol
 
WalterSobchak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gutter Alley
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluester View Post
To say you wouldn't trade Oshie (unproven NHL player) for Gaborik ( proven star).... I'll just put you in the same category as stemps. If I were you I wouldn't be questioning other peoples logic currently.
I think that JD and co. might look at this deal, but they would need to resign Gabby. No disrespect to Marions skills, but his health in the last 2 season has come into question and I have to wonder if he has what it takes to last in this league.

St. Louis isn't at that point where the value of the roster spot and $$$ spent are going to make enough difference IMO.

That said, I don't think Oshie for Gabby straight up would be a deal Minnesota would look at and it would be a mistake for St. Louis to make that deal.

WalterSobchak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2008, 05:02 PM
  #43
Oshie97
Registered User
 
Oshie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
I think that JD and co. might look at this deal, but they would need to resign Gabby. No disrespect to Marions skills, but his health in the last 2 season has come into question and I have to wonder if he has what it takes to last in this league.

St. Louis isn't at that point where the value of the roster spot and $$$ spent are going to make enough difference IMO.

That said, I don't think Oshie for Gabby straight up would be a deal Minnesota would look at and it would be a mistake for St. Louis to make that deal.
Wow, look at that a smart Blues fan, Maybe you should take some notes. You don't trade a high end prospect to rent a superstar unless you are going for the cup. Last time I checked the Blues are a little ways away from that.

Oshie97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-26-2008, 02:28 PM
  #44
Bluester
Registered User
 
Bluester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kansas City, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
Wow, look at that a smart Blues fan, Maybe you should take some notes. You don't trade a high end prospect to rent a superstar unless you are going for the cup. Last time I checked the Blues are a little ways away from that.
My only point is Oshie straight up for Gabby would be great value for us in return. Not to mention the possibilty of resigning him. Teams would kill to be able to get a player of Gaboriks calibur for so cheap. Minny fans would be left scratching there heads.

Bluester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-26-2008, 02:42 PM
  #45
Bluester
Registered User
 
Bluester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kansas City, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
I think that JD and co. might look at this deal, but they would need to resign Gabby. No disrespect to Marions skills, but his health in the last 2 season has come into question and I have to wonder if he has what it takes to last in this league.

St. Louis isn't at that point where the value of the roster spot and $$$ spent are going to make enough difference IMO.

That said, I don't think Oshie for Gabby straight up would be a deal Minnesota would look at and it would be a mistake for St. Louis to make that deal.
All I'm saying is that if someone offers you a player that averages more than a ppg you take a look. Compared to what Minny will probably get for him it's a steal. A team is going to give up a good prospect and atleast a 1st would be my guess. Were under cap not to mention I think this Walts last year so that's another $4M freed up.

Bluester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-26-2008, 08:05 PM
  #46
WalterSobchak
Blues Trololol
 
WalterSobchak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gutter Alley
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluester View Post
My only point is Oshie straight up for Gabby would be great value for us in return. Not to mention the possibilty of resigning him. Teams would kill to be able to get a player of Gaboriks calibur for so cheap. Minny fans would be left scratching there heads.
on paper Gabby is an incredible talent and trading him straight across for Oshie would be highway robbery for the Blues.

But there is a reason many Minny fans want Gabby moved.

WalterSobchak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-26-2008, 11:17 PM
  #47
Progal
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 13
vCash: 500
Quote:
But there is a reason many Minny fans want Gabby moved.
Just want to get the facts straight, most Minnesota fans do not want Gaborik moved. We would love to keep Gaborik, the problem is he might not sign unless he gets offered a ridiculous amount.

As great as Gaborik is I don't think that there is anybody who thinks he should get Ovechkin money, which it is sounding like he is looking for.

Progal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2008, 03:19 AM
  #48
thestonedkoala
Everyone! PANIC!
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
But there is a reason many Minny fans want Gabby moved.
Which Minnesota fans him moved?

The only reason we want him moved is because he's either becoming a distraction for this season with contract talks or because we understand that a rebuild is coming very soon.

thestonedkoala is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.