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Old
09-21-2008, 10:37 PM
  #276
Erika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
You think that most people here expect big things from Chipchura? Do you mean this year, or overall, cause I can't say I have seen many people ever say he would be more then a 3rd line center, since he was drafted he's had the 3rd line center tag and I don't see what's changed about that. So to me it's hard to expect big things from a guy that his upside is 3rd line center.

Don't get me wrong, to win you need everyone on the team playing their role well, and to me Chipchura is the kind of guy you need come playoff time. He had a decent showing in the NHL last year, in his 2nd season as a pro, and he's won a gold medal at the wjc's and a calder cup where his line was the best line on the team imo.

I can't understand for the life of me why you seem to hate him so much, but reading comments like his potential is that of Wyman, Fortier, Belle, etc.... it makes it hard to take you serious. Some people just seem to have a blind hate for a player so whatever works for you.

I have this Philosophy of not drafting low potential players in the first round...

That's why I hate him so much.

Players with the potential of being 1st/2nd liners can make the NHL as 3rd or 4th liners if they don't reach their full potential. Of course, they can fail and become career minor leaguers, but the chance that they make the NHL are higher.

Players with the potential of being only 3rd/4th liners... well, the highest they can go is 3rd line... Which means, they can easilly fail and become only career minor leaguers. They don't have much breathing space, if you know what I mean.

As for Defencemen, they are so rare, so it's always a good thing to pick defencemen in the first round.

So Guys guys like Chichura ?!?!


Worst pick of Timmins by far !!


Last edited by Beakermania*: 09-21-2008 at 11:53 PM.
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09-21-2008, 10:41 PM
  #277
Chris Cutter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
I have this Philosophy of not drafting low potential players in the first round...

That's why I hate him so much.

Players with the potential of being 1st/2nd liners can make the NHL as 3rd or 4th liners if they don't reach their full potential. Of course, they can fail and become career minor leaguers, but the chance that they make the NHL are higher.

Players with the potential of being only 3rd/4th liners... well, hte highest they can go is 3rd line... Which means, they can easilly failed and become only career minor leaguers. They don't have much breathing space, if you know what I mean.

As for Defencemen, they are so rare, so it's always a good thing to pick defencemen in the first round.

But guys like Chichura ?!?!


Worst pick of Timmins by far !!

Hm, Urqhart is the worst pick of Timmins, imo. Chipchura actually played a couple of games in the NHL...


I'd rather draft a player that is gonna be a 100% in the NHL in a less-offensive minded role than draft a wild card a la Andrei Kostitsyn who would either turn into a superstar or just fail big time.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 09-21-2008 at 11:54 PM.
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09-21-2008, 10:49 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
OMG they are wasting D'agostini..... its a conspiracy.... D'agostini is gonna look bad cause Higgins sucks so much. No way he can get any points in the pre-season now. Higgins can't score ever, he should be on the 17th line.

They should play D'agostini with Sergei... he's like sooooooo HOT!! it would be a killer line.

Sergei is magnificent. He would make Steve Bégin and Georges Laraque 20 goal scorers (although he couldn't do it with Koivu). He's better than Spezza and Heatley combined. He was robbed, he should have won the Calder Trophy. Someone should start a Sergei Kostitsyn comic book and make a movie of it, like Spider Man, The Hulk, Superman, and the rest.

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Old
09-21-2008, 10:56 PM
  #279
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Holy **** Price was 245 lbs during last year's playoffs


Gainey :

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Old
09-21-2008, 10:57 PM
  #280
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Ugh, I can't believe a mod encourages/baits her.
She grates on everyone's nerves, even a moderator's.

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Old
09-21-2008, 10:59 PM
  #281
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Loving all the reports guys, thanks.

Can't wait until we can see some of these guys in action.

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09-21-2008, 11:06 PM
  #282
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I'm this close of making a gif where that teach smilie gets brutally murdered.

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Old
09-21-2008, 11:10 PM
  #283
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i think we needa slow down a bit here. How does Chichura become a bust ALREADY?

is it like how Andrei Kostitsyn was a "bust"?
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...Kostitsyn+bust

as the posters said, give him some TIME

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...Kostitsyn+bust



Again with Chichura lets wait a few years shall we.

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Old
09-21-2008, 11:22 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frickin dannie View Post
Any idea why Lacasse went IHL instead of ECHL last year? Not that we had room for him, we had Desjardins & a rotation of guys from Nashville.
You answered your own question.

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Originally Posted by preston View Post
Ugh, I can't believe a mod encourages/baits her.
What can I say... I find repetitive posts that offer nothing new to the topic; punctuated by the same awful smiley as annoying as anyone else here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
For Brisebois, it'll be a reaaaaaaaaaally long season i think. Honestly he's been the worst d-man today and by far. Anderson owns him anyday(He's actually pretty darn good) but brisebois, players were stick handling in neutral zone and he felt for like no reason early on, it wasnt a good start then in drills he couldnt pass straight, while everybody could do it right no problem. He got burned in lots of drills i remember pac once, breezer there or not wouldnt have changed anything...

Funniest moment of the day, the guys beside me were kinda laughing at breezer the whole game and on gorges goal, brisebois is his partner and he got an assist on the goal and the guy beside me screamed something like LET'S GO BREEZER, but really loudly and breezer looked at us and made an arm move like yeah, maybe he thought we were serious and thought he was good or something, we just laughed at him the whole day and i dont mind brisebois, he was just complately awful today and yesterday he got burned by glumac...
For a guy who has been in the league for as long as Breezer has... I'm not too worried if he doesn't look as good as some rookies and guys pushing for NHL jobs on defence at this point of camp.

Breezer knows when he needs to turn it on, and that isn't now.

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Old
09-21-2008, 11:25 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
i think we needa slow down a bit here. How does Chichura become a bust ALREADY?

is it like how Andrei Kostitsyn was a "bust"?
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...Kostitsyn+bust

as the posters said, give him some TIME

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...Kostitsyn+bust



Again with Chichura lets wait a few years shall we.

Not the same kind of player and definitely not the same potential.

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Old
09-21-2008, 11:32 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I'm this close of making a gif where that teach smilie gets brutally murdered.

"Here to help icon" placed into>>>

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Old
09-21-2008, 11:37 PM
  #287
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
I have this Philosophy of not drafting low potential players in the first round..Players with the potential of being 1st/2nd liners can make the NHL as 3rd or 4th liners if they don't reach their full potential. Of course, they can fail and become career minor leaguers, but the chance that they make the NHL are higher.

Players with the potential of being only 3rd/4th liners... well, the highest they can go is 3rd line... Which means, they can easilly fail and become only career minor leaguers. They don't have much breathing space, if you know what I mean.

As for Defencemen, they are so rare, so it's always a good thing to pick defencemen in the first round Worst pick of Timmins by far !!
I can understand not drafting low potential players in the 1st round. I think that you underrated Chipchura's potential from reading some of your posts, and I would also tend to side with Timmins and his staff over say your opinions, which I would say for everyone here as Timmins has clearly been one of the best things to happen to this organization in some time. So if Timmins sees something in him then it's a good starting point, not to say that he doesn't make mistakes but that his drafting history while in the early stages still, looks great. Also if you recall, CSB in the midseason rankings had Chipchura as the top NA skater I beleive, so scouts saw something in him for sure.

Also I think that when building a team through the draft you have to find the right players that fit the mold of what you want. Regardless of what their potential is, if you think they will fit into the organization as the kind of player you want, then I don't see why it's a bad thing to get that player in the 1st round. You need players like Chipchura come playoff time, and while you might be able to draft them in later rounds, your taking a chance. So if so the draft isn't that strong and the right player is on board, and say the year before you took a high rish high reward prospect in the 1st round, then to me it makes sense to go safe every now and then.

I can't say I really agree with anything in your post but to each their own. I wouldn't look at a position of a prospect and have that be a factor in drafting. So when you say defensmen are rare and you would pick them in the first round, which I recall others saying that we shouldn't have drafted Price where we did because you shouldn't pick goalies that high, to me I don't care that much where they are picked when talking about position. You pick the right players, not certain positions imo.

If Chipchura were Timmins worst pick, both he and the Habs are going to have an outstanding future then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
Not the same kind of player and definitely not the same potential.
Agreed. But imo you need both, you want to be able to draft a guy that's going to be on your top PP unit and you need to find the guy that will be on you top PK unit. So while the potential is not the same or close, they bring different things. If you look at Hamilton in the playoffs when they won the cup, it was their 3rd line center that was leading the way at both ends of the rink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
Hm, Urqhart is the worst pick of Timmins, imo. Chipchura actually played a couple of games in the NHL...


I'd rather draft a player that is gonna be a 100% in the NHL in a less-offensive minded role than draft a wild card a la Andrei Kostitsyn who would either turn into a superstar or just fail big time.
Yea the Urquhart pick hurts for sure. You can't win em all. I actually had us drafting him in the 3rd round in a mock draft I did at Habsworld.net, he was great in the playoffs right before the draft, oh well.

I think you need to do both, draft players that are wild cards like A.Kostitsyn some years and others you need to find those sure fire nhlers, to get good balance in your prospect system.

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Old
09-21-2008, 11:41 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
I still dont get the Brisebois signing.. Hope he will be bought out during the season, then call up Valentenko..
Not possible under the CBA.

Also Breezy was over 35 when signed... he'd count against the camp if sent to Hamilton.

I think he's in Montreal to stay this year.

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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
i don't think tha it's possible . I think that each teams had the right to buy out 2 or 3 players only , until the next convention . If i am correct , i think that yet Gainey did it twice . ( Samsonov trade return )
No there is no limit on how many guys you buy out... but you can only do buyouts druing certain "buyout windows"

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09-21-2008, 11:43 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post

Wasn't surprised at all by the poor performance of Kyle "Slowpoke" Chipchura. NHL lock ?! He has the same chance of making the NHL as guys like J.T. Wyman, Olivier Fortier, Shaw Belle, Jonathan Ferland, Ryan Russell and other Career Minor Leaguers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
I have not yet seen that. What did he proved so far ?! Don't tell me he captained Team Canada junior, or things like this because it doesn't matter what he did before !! If he really wanted the job that badly, he would've worked his ashh off. Until he makes the cut, he is in the same situation as all the other guys.
Why do you never answer the question with actual hockey skills examples other than his skating? You've brought up that lame ''it doesn't matter that he was captain of team canada/what happened the past'' argument time and time again.

Answer the question:

What has Chipchura shown to prove he doesn't even have NHL potential?

Answer. The. Question.

Please don't bring up the fact he hasn't been able to establish himself as a NHLer at the ripe old age of 21, because most of the Habs youth would have been busts too using that insane logic.

And please don't bring up the skating for the 180978097th time, because there's probably 100 players in the NHL with poor skating who made it.

Answer. The. Question.

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Old
09-21-2008, 11:55 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Agreed. But imo you need both, you want to be able to draft a guy that's going to be on your top PP unit and you need to find the guy that will be on you top PK unit. So while the potential is not the same or close, they bring different things. If you look at Hamilton in the playoffs when they won the cup, it was their 3rd line center that was leading the way at both ends of the rink.
As I said in an other post. 3rd/4th liners are easy to get on the market(trades, UFAs, waivers).
Anyway he's not aweful, I'm curious to see if he improved his faceoff skills this could probably be more important then his skating. If he can become a go to guy for faceoffs. But right now....if his faceoff skills have not improved I dont really see him making this team. You cant have a 4th line center that is supposed to be good defensively but cant win key faceoffs.

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09-21-2008, 11:58 PM
  #291
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I was just reading the article on Brock Trotter on rds, says he gained 14 lbs over the summer, nice to hear! It's one of the main things he needed to do was get bigger/stronger so it should be interesting to see how he does in his first full year. I was surprised to see that the Habs gave him so much money, he got 1st/2nd round type of money, 875K cap hit if he hits his bonus money, not bad for a guy that didn't get drafted.

Anyway glad to hear he had a good game.

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09-22-2008, 12:01 AM
  #292
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For anyone who says Kyle Chipchura wasn't worth the waste of a first round draft pick cause his max potential is third line.... I have to ask this.

His potential would be a shutdown centre, score about 20goals a year, be a leader of your team and captain material. That describes a Guy Carbonneau clone to me. If you could get him to reach that potential hes definetely a first rounder. I'd argue that Guy Carbonneau was more valuable than most 2nd liners in the entire NHL in his prime.

Its a myth that 2nd liners are more valuable than 3rd liners. I'd take a guy with Guy Carbonneau max potential over a guy with 2nd liner max potential any day of the week.

Will Chipchura make it to that level?? Who knows?? He's still young, and he's got work to do. But I'm not writing him off yet.... Many people on this site wrote of AKost way too early.

Infact if you look at Erika's history you'll find a lot of:

OMG Alex Perezhogin is 100818588324x better than Andrei Kostitsyn... Andrei is a bust. Perezhogin is gonna score 35-40 goals for us one day.

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09-22-2008, 12:05 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
As I said in an other post. 3rd/4th liners are easy to get on the market(trades, UFAs, waivers).
Anyway he's not aweful, I'm curious to see if he improved his faceoff skills this could probably be more important then his skating. If he can become a go to guy for faceoffs. But right now....if his faceoff skills have not improved I dont really see him making this team. You cant have a 4th line center that is supposed to be good defensively but cant win key faceoffs.
I don't know about easy to get, for one you should never count on waivers when your trying to build a contender. Granted we got Begin off waivers and good players have slipped through waivers but I don't consider that a good stragey imo. UFA's it's tougher cause you never know who will sign here and for how much, look at the kind of money Dandenault got and then look at what some other teams paid out this summer. Hainsey's contract, Finger, Streit, etc.... UFA's is becoming a scary place to pick up players, holy cow are gm's throwing money around again like drunken sailors. Trades certainly work, for me I'd rather build through the draft, although making the right trades is huge for sure and if you get good players it's great but your also taking the risk of giving up assets which later on can backfire.

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09-22-2008, 12:11 AM
  #294
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I remember Chipchura having some good times with Latendresse last year on the same line

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09-22-2008, 12:33 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Corey View Post
Sergei is magnificent. He would make Steve Bégin and Georges Laraque 20 goal scorers (although he couldn't do it with Koivu). He's better than Spezza and Heatley combined. He was robbed, he should have won the Calder Trophy. Someone should start a Sergei Kostitsyn comic book and make a movie of it, like Spider Man, The Hulk, Superman, and the rest.
Are you somehow implying that the blind hate for Chipchura and the Sergei "please father my children" Kostitsyn ******** are unjustified???

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09-22-2008, 12:35 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I don't know about easy to get, for one you should never count on waivers when your trying to build a contender. Granted we got Begin off waivers and good players have slipped through waivers but I don't consider that a good stragey imo. UFA's it's tougher cause you never know who will sign here and for how much, look at the kind of money Dandenault got and then look at what some other teams paid out this summer. Hainsey's contract, Finger, Streit, etc.... UFA's is becoming a scary place to pick up players, holy cow are gm's throwing money around again like drunken sailors. Trades certainly work, for me I'd rather build through the draft, although making the right trades is huge for sure and if you get good players it's great but your also taking the risk of giving up assets which later on can backfire.
I also think that going by the draft is the better way. But I'm not convinced about drafting 3rd/4th liners in the first round and if you do speed should be one of the strong points of the player.
But right now I dont see where he fits on this team in the short/medium term.
4th line? I want a banger and crasher that can win faceoffs.
3rd line? I want a guy with speed(Lang is missing this part), offensive touch that can win faceoffs.
I think this team should keep focusing on speed and offense.

But like I said earlier. If he can raise is faceoff skills to a bit above 50% then things might change.

Right now I find a 4th line with Lapierre much more appealing then with Chipchura for the role I epxect them to play.

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09-22-2008, 12:42 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
I also think that going by the draft is the better way. But I'm not convinced about drafting 3rd/4th liners in the first round and if you do speed should be one of the strong points of the player.
But right now I dont see where he fits on this team in the short/medium term.
4th line? I want a banger and crasher that can win faceoffs.
3rd line? I want a guy with speed(Lang is missing this part), offensive touch that can win faceoffs.
I think this team should keep focusing on speed and offense.

But like I said earlier. If he can raise is faceoff skills to a bit above 50% then things might change.

Right now I find a 4th line with Lapierre much more appealing then with Chipchura for the role I epxect them to play.
I so agree with everything above. Chipchura, IMO, would have been a perfect fit in the pre-lockout NHL. Right now, with the type of team we have, not so much. At least not right now.

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09-22-2008, 01:35 AM
  #298
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I must have hit my head or something. I have his hazy recollection of Chipchura being talked about as our future 2nd line Center last December. For some reason, I also remember him actually being in the NHL last year, and doing quite well for a bit.

Possible dementia?

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Old
09-22-2008, 01:38 AM
  #299
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CHIPS IS FINISHED

End of.

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09-22-2008, 01:38 AM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
For anyone who says Kyle Chipchura wasn't worth the waste of a first round draft pick cause his max potential is third line.... I have to ask this.

His potential would be a shutdown centre, score about 20goals a year, be a leader of your team and captain material. That describes a Guy Carbonneau clone to me. If you could get him to reach that potential hes definetely a first rounder. I'd argue that Guy Carbonneau was more valuable than most 2nd liners in the entire NHL in his prime.

Its a myth that 2nd liners are more valuable than 3rd liners. I'd take a guy with Guy Carbonneau max potential over a guy with 2nd liner max potential any day of the week.

Will Chipchura make it to that level?? Who knows?? He's still young, and he's got work to do. But I'm not writing him off yet.... Many people on this site wrote of AKost way too early.

Infact if you look at Erika's history you'll find a lot of:

OMG Alex Perezhogin is 100818588324x better than Andrei Kostitsyn... Andrei is a bust. Perezhogin is gonna score 35-40 goals for us one day.
The Carbo comparison is pretty good, I dont know if he will center our third line one day cause we seem to go in a direction where we will roll 3 offensive lines but one thing Im sure is that he will be an important part of the success of this team for years, the kid only played 1 Pro season, give him time to progress and become the top quality shutdown center we are awaiting.. Also, the guy is a natural leader, he is the kind of guy who take care of everyone being part of his team.. Peca would be another pretty good comparison.. Im convinced he is a lock for next year as our fourth line center, Begin and Kostopoulos will be UFA... A Lapierre Chipchura Laraque line would be great.

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