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Habs need to graduate one more puck-moving D... now

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09-22-2008, 02:55 PM
  #1
VirginiaMtlExpat
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Habs need to graduate one more puck-moving D... now

Just saw that Gonchar hurt his shoulder, and the Pens are having to press Letang into service as PP general and squeeze the most out of Sydor.

Shows how vulnerable any team is if its premier puck-moving / PP general defenceman goes down.

With Streit having moved on, the case can be made that the Habs should be looking for a way to graduate another puckmover, over anyone else. Whoever the best of Weber, Subban, Carle it is.

If Markov goes down this year or the next, this thread will be revisited.

My own opinion: bring up Subban now, for good. On the 2nd PP, he can learn on the job.

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09-22-2008, 02:57 PM
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we have Brisebois !

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09-22-2008, 02:58 PM
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Brisebois is a serviceable stop-gap, but fast-forward one year or so, and the problem comes up again.

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09-22-2008, 02:58 PM
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Briesbois can do the PP. Hamrlik is pretty good at moving the puck up.

I think all our D will become decent at it because asides from Bouillon they're smart players and being well coached on that breakout pass.

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09-22-2008, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanyMontrealExpat View Post
Just saw that Gonchar hurt his shoulder, and the Pens are having to press Letang into service as PP general and squeeze the most out of Sydor.

Shows how vulnerable any team is if its premier puck-moving / PP general defenceman goes down.

With Streit having moved on, the case can be made that the Habs should be looking for a way to graduate another puckmover, over anyone else. Whoever the best of Weber, Subban, Carle it is.

If Markov goes down this year or the next, this thread will be revisited.

My own opinion: bring up Subban now, for good. On the 2nd PP, he can learn on the job.
now, Carle is almost there, no need to rush him if there's no place for him or he doesn't steal a spot. If we need him, I'm sure he'll step it up. calm down...now!

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09-22-2008, 03:00 PM
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I think Weber is a much better alternative than Subban if you're actually going to proceed with this route. We wouldn't be able to send Subban down to Hamilton if he struggles. Weber could be swapped for Valentenko, Carle.. you name it. Subban would be stuck.

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09-22-2008, 03:01 PM
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Hamrlik and Brisebois could fill the cap in case of a Markov injury, but you can't ever replace a player like that if he goes down. Yannick Weber and Mathieu Carle will be ones to watch in Hamilton for those roles. I'm happy with the team as it is. Gainey shouldn't move until the new year.

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09-22-2008, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I think Weber is a much better alternative than Subban if you're actually going to proceed with this route. We wouldn't be able to send Subban down to Hamilton if he struggles. Weber could be swapped for Valentenko, Carle.. you name it. Subban would be stuck.
I agree but I would have no problem with the Habs "wasting" a year of pro eligibility on Subban to give him the 10 game trial.

I really think his energy and attitude could mesh very well with the Canadiens current dressing room.

And if he did not work out you can always send him down after 10 games. I want to see him in a pre season game so bad.

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09-22-2008, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ra View Post
now, Carle is almost there, no need to rush him if there's no place for him or he doesn't steal a spot. If we need him, I'm sure he'll step it up. calm down...now!
Reactive individuals are always telling their proactive brethren to calm down, just as the latter exhort the former to wake up. Yin and yang.

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09-22-2008, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JMMR View Post
I agree but I would have no problem with the Habs "wasting" a year of pro eligibility on Subban to give him the 10 game trial.

I really think his energy and attitude could mesh very well with the Canadiens current dressing room.

And if he did not work out you can always send him down after 10 games. I want to see him in a pre season game so bad.
Yep. I agree. I just think it would take a few more than 10 games to properly assess a player like Subban in the NHL.

But by all means, give him the 10 games if he impresses in camp.

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09-22-2008, 03:31 PM
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Some teams don't have a Markov or a Gonchar...

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09-22-2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I think Weber is a much better alternative than Subban if you're actually going to proceed with this route. We wouldn't be able to send Subban down to Hamilton if he struggles. Weber could be swapped for Valentenko, Carle.. you name it. Subban would be stuck.
Not exactly.....

Markov, Komi, and Hammer are not gonna be pushed for their spots.

Weber and Carle are RD... so if they are gonna be up with the team the question is replacing one of Gorges or O'Byrne on the Right side... or moving Gorges back to LD and replacing Bouillion.

Whereas Valentenko is a LD; he can only replace Bouillion in the lineup.

If you are gonna graduate one of these guys, i hope its not to sit in the pressbox.

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09-22-2008, 03:35 PM
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Not exactly.....

Markov, Komi, and Hammer are not gonna be pushed for their spots.

Weber and Carle are RD... so if they are gonna be up with the team the question is replacing one of Gorges or O'Byrne on the Right side... or moving Gorges back to LD and replacing Bouillion.

Whereas Valentenko is a LD; he can only replace Bouillion in the lineup.

If you are gonna graduate one of these guys, i hope its not to sit in the pressbox.
There is no doubt in my mind that Valentenko will take Bouillion's spot next year when his contract is up.

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09-22-2008, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Not exactly.....

Markov, Komi, and Hammer are not gonna be pushed for their spots.

Weber and Carle are RD... so if they are gonna be up with the team the question is replacing one of Gorges or O'Byrne on the Right side... or moving Gorges back to LD and replacing Bouillion.

Whereas Valentenko is a LD; he can only replace Bouillion in the lineup.

If you are gonna graduate one of these guys, i hope its not to sit in the pressbox.
The point remains. You can reconfigure the defensive lineup however you wish using Brisebois, Carle, Valentenko, Weber in whatever situation that arises.

If you've got Subban in the lineup for the season those possibilities are pretty much removed. You're stuck with 8 defensemen on the roster without a trade. Not to mention that (if, God forbid, it happened) in order to replace Subban on the roster due to injury, you'd have to use additional cap space on a call-up, not being able to demote the injured player to save cap space.

And Komisarek spent most of his first season on the bench. Didn't appear to hurt him too much. Valentenko (or whoever) might benefit from the same opportunity if roster space allows it.

As far as filling the point on the PP goes, it doesn't really matter which hand the defenseman is. If he's right handed, he fits on either PP unit. If he's left-handed, you move Hamrlik over to the right and he fits on the 2nd PP unit.

Playing protected 3rd pairing minutes isn't a disaster on your off-side, either.

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09-22-2008, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
There is no doubt in my mind that Valentenko will take Bouillion's spot next year when his contract is up.
Markov - Komisarek
Hamrlik - O'Byrne
Valetenko - Gorges

Wow... that D will be just scary for other teams to play against.

Now hopefully Yemelin can come over after the year and improve just like Tank did in the AHL.

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09-22-2008, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
The point remains. You can reconfigure the defensive lineup however you wish using Brisebois, Carle, Valentenko, Weber in whatever situation that arises.

If you've got Subban in the lineup for the season those possibilities are pretty much removed. You're stuck with 8 defensemen on the roster without a trade. Not to mention that (if, God forbid, it happened) in order to replace Subban on the roster due to injury, you'd have to use additional cap space on a call-up, not being able to demote the injured player to save cap space.

And Komisarek spent most of his first season on the bench. Didn't appear to hurt him too much. Valentenko (or whoever) might benefit from the same opportunity if roster space allows it.

As far as filling the point on the PP goes, it doesn't really matter which hand the defenseman is. If he's right handed, he fits on either PP unit. If he's left-handed, you move Hamrlik over to the right and he fits on the 2nd PP unit.

Playing protected 3rd pairing minutes isn't a disaster on your off-side, either.
Just so we are clear; Subban can be demoted at any time... He just can't be recalled if he is demoted.

Also if he plays 10 games or more he accrues a contract year.

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09-22-2008, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanyMontrealExpat View Post
Reactive individuals are always telling their proactive brethren to calm down, just as the latter exhort the former to wake up. Yin and yang.
Now, get off your high horse, it was nothing more then a play on your "now". Get it now? You watch too much 24 Anyway, to think that Bob Gainey hasn't planned everything is quite reductive and an insult to the man. Especially when it's crystal clear that Carle and Valentenko are almost there (maybe not now), ready to step up in case of injuries (soon to be now).

Now, I'll wake up.

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09-22-2008, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Just so we are clear; Subban can be demoted at any time... He just can't be recalled if he is demoted.

Also if he plays 10 games or more he accrues a contract year.
Well aware of both of those things. However, we're dealing with reality and unless he looks amazing in 10 games, and then is horrible the rest of the season there's little-to-no chance of Subban being demoted at the cost of an accrued season.

Unless Subban is light years ahead of anyone else the proposed plan to keep him up doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

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09-22-2008, 06:33 PM
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Well aware of both of those things. However, we're dealing with reality and unless he looks amazing in 10 games, and then is horrible the rest of the season there's little-to-no chance of Subban being demoted at the cost of an accrued season.

Unless Subban is light years ahead of anyone else the proposed plan to keep him up doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
The proposed plan to keep anyone instead of playing them in Hamilton doens't make sense to me.

People will get hurt and they can get some NHL experience this year... but i dont' want a guy with less than a full season on a NA rink (Tank) sitting in the press box. And I don't want Weber with no pro experience or Carle with one year of AHL there either.

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09-22-2008, 06:39 PM
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My own opinion: bring up Subban now, for good. On the 2nd PP, he can learn on the job.

Valentenko should be able to fill in if injuries hit. I really hope to see him play a handful of games if possible. Weber and Carle would be the 9th and 10th D unless they would rather go with someone with at least some nhl experience with Henry or Belle as the 9th and 10th D, which hopefully we won't have a need for.

The next year we could see Valentenko move up to the NHL, with Carle and Weber hopefully taking another big step in their development and you would add Subban, Paquet and possible McDonagh and or Fischer and or Emelin, so after this year we could be loaded with young D on the farm.

As for using Subban now, no way. I am very high on Subban's future, I love his upside but I don't want to rush him at all, in fact I hope they go slow with him. Next year we can see how he does at the AHL level, give him a good bit of time down there to have him round out his game. For me, if he can improve on his hockey sense, he could turn into one heck of an NHLer down the road as he has a number of interesting intagabiles like skating, speed, strength, offensvie skills and physical game. That's a nice combo of skills to have in a young player so let him learn his position level by level and see how he does.

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09-22-2008, 06:39 PM
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There is no doubt in my mind that Valentenko will take Bouillion's spot next year when his contract is up.
why wait? Dump Boullion now!

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09-22-2008, 06:52 PM
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Put me on the Subban bandwagon. Limit his ES ice time, give him top PP mins with Markov and you are using him correctly. He's 19 he has many years to develop and if he's physically ready, what matters? He'll make mistakes, yes, but it'll be a young rookie as opposed to a bonehead veteran. Look at the Predators, they brought their young defencemen up early and it worked out very well for them, they have a scary blueline with Weber, Suter and Hamhuis, with guys like Franson and Klein coming too. 12 mins of icetime in the NHL trumps 30 mins of icetime in the OHL, there is really no comparison. Bring him up, give him his 10 days.

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09-22-2008, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
The proposed plan to keep anyone instead of playing them in Hamilton doens't make sense to me.

People will get hurt and they can get some NHL experience this year... but i dont' want a guy with less than a full season on a NA rink (Tank) sitting in the press box. And I don't want Weber with no pro experience or Carle with one year of AHL there either.
Well that we can both agree upon. I suggested the other alternative just to juxtapose against the proposed plan.

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09-22-2008, 08:47 PM
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Just put a forward on the point.



God I hope my "Teach" Icon annoys all of you.

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09-22-2008, 08:59 PM
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Weber is not close at all, from what I seen tonight.

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