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Old
09-23-2008, 11:40 AM
  #26
SpezDispenser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
I'm not a Kings fan, but if they won't get a better deal for O'Sullivan than Foligno, Schubert and a 3rd then that just illustrates exactly why they probably don't have any interest in trading him.

PS.

As for O'Sullivan's alleged contract demands of ~$5m, I don't see why that's so unreasonable given that Corey Perry (who is the same age) got $5.325m for scoring exactly 2 more points than O'Sullivan last year..
Foligno's really good, but yes, I believe that's why he hasn't been traded. He'll sit out or whatever he wants to do, until he signs a contract at 3-3.5 million. LA has loads of time to wait for him to 'come around'.

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Old
09-23-2008, 11:44 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
As for O'Sullivan's alleged contract demands of ~$5m, I don't see why that's so unreasonable given that Corey Perry (who is the same age) got $5.325m for scoring exactly 2 more points than O'Sullivan last year..
And in order to keep his stars, Burke must now sell off assets now in order to allow Teemu to play, something that DL is trying to avoid by signing Sully to a lower contract. At that price IMO Perry is overpayed, but thats just my humble opinion. They both should get no more than 3.5 a year....

If Sully gets 5, I'd hate to think what Kopi, Brown and Frolov will be making....

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Old
09-23-2008, 11:45 AM
  #28
SFKingshomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
I'm not a Kings fan, but if they won't get a better deal for O'Sullivan than Foligno, Schubert and a 3rd then that just illustrates exactly why they probably don't have any interest in trading him.

PS.

As for O'Sullivan's alleged contract demands of ~$5m, I don't see why that's so unreasonable given that Corey Perry (who is the same age) got $5.325m for scoring exactly 2 more points than O'Sullivan last year..
His agent started negotiations with $4m per for 2 years and the Kings want him to take around that amount long term. I think the term is the sticking point....

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Old
09-23-2008, 12:13 PM
  #29
Zizou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
As for O'Sullivan's alleged contract demands of ~$5m, I don't see why that's so unreasonable given that Corey Perry (who is the same age) got $5.325m for scoring exactly 2 more points than O'Sullivan last year..
I've talked comparables over and over again and quite honestly I don't want to get into it once again... but here's 2 quick reasons why Corey Perry gets more than O'Sullivan.

Corey Perry scored 44 points in his first full season and 54 in his second (in only 70 games). That is a .644 PPG average.
O'Sullivan scored 19 points in his first half season and 53 in his first full season. That equals a .571 PPG average.

Corey Perry has been in the playoffs three different years and has 21 points in 35 games. .600 PPG average. He also has a ring.
O'Sullivan has no playoff experience.


That's why they aren't the same. And not even in the same neighborhood...yet.

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Old
09-23-2008, 12:26 PM
  #30
Saucechucker99
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Kings could get more from another team

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Old
09-23-2008, 01:23 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Natural View Post
I've talked comparables over and over again and quite honestly I don't want to get into it once again... but here's 2 quick reasons why Corey Perry gets more than O'Sullivan.

Corey Perry scored 44 points in his first full season and 54 in his second (in only 70 games). That is a .644 PPG average.
O'Sullivan scored 19 points in his first half season and 53 in his first full season. That equals a .571 PPG average.

Corey Perry has been in the playoffs three different years and has 21 points in 35 games. .600 PPG average. He also has a ring.
O'Sullivan has no playoff experience.


That's why they aren't the same. And not even in the same neighborhood...yet.
Its real simple O'Sullivan is better and has a greater upside.

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Old
09-23-2008, 01:27 PM
  #32
Captain Ron
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Originally Posted by Builditagain View Post
Its real simple O'Sullivan is better and has a greater upside.
With comments like this I am beginning to believe you are his dad.

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Old
09-23-2008, 02:05 PM
  #33
R0bert0 Lu0ng0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Natural View Post
I've talked comparables over and over again and quite honestly I don't want to get into it once again... but here's 2 quick reasons why Corey Perry gets more than O'Sullivan.
I won't drag you into it again, then. But I will respond to the rest of your post.

Quote:
Corey Perry scored 44 points in his first full season and 54 in his second (in only 70 games). That is a .644 PPG average.
O'Sullivan scored 19 points in his first half season and 53 in his first full season. That equals a .571 PPG average.
Fair enough. The other differences that I see is that Perry is receiving passes from guys like Getzlaf, Pronger and Niedermayer.. I would argue that while LA has some great young players, Anaheim's top line forwards receive better support.

However Los Angeles probably played a much looser defensive system, that is friendlier to scoring forwards of course.

Still, you can't deny that in his career Perry has had better numbers - even though that doesn't necessarily indicate that he will be the better player over the next few years.

Quote:
Corey Perry has been in the playoffs three different years and has 21 points in 35 games. .600 PPG average. He also has a ring.
O'Sullivan has no playoff experience.
Hmm, excellent negotiating tactic on DL's part - keep his team out of the playoffs until he can sign his younger players to long-term contracts?

In all seriousness though, I will definitely agree that Perry's experience and production in the playoffs helped his case in negotiations.

Quote:
That's why they aren't the same. And not even in the same neighborhood...yet.
True - but I was saying why I think O'Sullivan could reasonable ask for that.. not why he deserves to get it.

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Old
09-23-2008, 02:06 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
Of course he could, who does he have to beat? Mikhail Grabovski?

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Old
09-23-2008, 02:30 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Redlighting View Post
I still can't understand the hype O'Sullivan is getting after putting up one decent season as a 23-year old......

IMHO, it's for a couple of reasons:

1) In the shoot-out, he was 4/5.

2) He performed some serious "eyes in the back of his head" manuveurs last season. Seriously, there was one time he made a play and I was thinking ..........."Modano?" And another time he worked a different kind of magic and I thought........"Forsberg?" I can't say the same of any other young player we have (except maybe Kopitar who scored a "Sakic-like" shoot-out goal). O'Sullivan does, indeed, possess "specialness". Just don't let his agent use this post in negotiations.

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Old
09-23-2008, 02:37 PM
  #36
Capn Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
If Sully gets 5....
But if it's for 8+ years, then 5 is a long-term steal (for Lombardi, not Sully). Long-term, I see Sully being a trifle superior to Elias (6).

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Old
09-23-2008, 06:24 PM
  #37
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Perry and Getzlaf were the secondary scoring that won the ducks the cup, that is why they deserve more money at this point in time. While I do agree that there may be something to the idea of Corey Perry's numbers being inflated due to playing on a better team, The kid can play playoff hockey and that is valuable to NHL teams.

Osullivan on the other hand has no playoff experience, which is I believe the only aspect of their game that Corey Perry has an advantage over Osullivan.

I am a king's fan, so my opinion maybe just a little bit biased. I do try to watch all hockey as objectively as possible but sometimes I can't help it.

Osullivan IMO is up there with Turris in having those special offensive instincts. He has an absolutely sick shot ( don't worry, you'll see it plenty next year when he gets signed), is money in the shootout, set up Handzus for I think the easiest SH goal I've ever seen in the NHL, and is generally an offensive wizard. Oh, and last season he scored over .5 PPG while learning a role he himself admitted he would have laughed at it if someone told him thats the role he would be playing in the NHL. Oh, and he was the kings best penalty killing forward last year.

Osullivan is obviously not untouchable, but if he can get signed to a decent contract he will be a huge part of the kings core for many years to come.


just my two cents from a kings fan that loves hockey in general. Again, I try not to be too biased, but I have to admit I have developed quite a man-crush on him after seeing the sick offensive skills he has combined with the way he worked hard to be a solid defensive player first, and then one of, if not, the kings most offensively talented players second. And that is why he is so valuable to a team that was the worst defensive team last year. Sorry if that's a little too long, didn't want anyone to give me too much grief since it's my first post I believe.

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Old
09-23-2008, 09:31 PM
  #38
BadNewsBearcat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
So in other words the Kings could trade a dynamic offensive player who brings leadership elements and feistiness and has always been the go-to guy for his teams in exchange for a player whose ceiling is lower and is worse now?

Oh yeah I forgot, they'd get "ntohing sepcial" back, too.

Where do they sign?
He wasn't asking for Kopitar.

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Old
09-23-2008, 09:40 PM
  #39
typicaljs
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I don't know so much about leadership abilities, aside from I recall him wearing an A in the AHL. But other than that what he said was correct, and no he wasn't talking about Kopitar because Kopitar's feisteness level is basically at 0, Osullivan on the other hand will play the body more and actually will get involved in scrums. A fiesty Kopitar that plays the body would be a dominant force to be reckoned with. Please hockey gods, give Anze Kopitar a mean streak.

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Old
09-23-2008, 11:21 PM
  #40
The Big Swede
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
Of course he could, who does he have to beat? Mikhail Grabovski?
That's low

Taking a shot at our weakness but then again it doesn't surprise me from a Sens fan

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Old
09-24-2008, 01:20 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by The Big Swede View Post
That's low

Taking a shot at our weakness but then again it doesn't surprise me from a Sens fan
If he was taking a shot at the leafs, he wouldn't need to be that accurate, Think atomic bomb vs a mouse.

Poking fun at the leafs suckiness is the proverbial hot dog down the hallway.

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Old
09-24-2008, 08:17 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
Of course he could, who does he have to beat? Mikhail Grabovski?
I'd take Grabs over Foligno ANY DAY..

I think OTT would have to throw in another Prospect or Pick for this to be considered..

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Old
09-24-2008, 08:39 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
Of course he could, who does he have to beat? Mikhail Grabovski?
As of right now, Grabovski > Foligno.

Grabs, actual potential to be a 2nd line player.

At the end of this season, it could be Grabovski<<< Foligno. Grabs will finally get great ice time that he could never get in Montreal. So, it's do, or die for him, in all honesty.

As for the deal, I think LA could get better, as well.

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Old
09-24-2008, 04:11 PM
  #44
Dick Whitman
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
As of right now, Grabovski > Foligno.

Grabs, actual potential to be a 2nd line player.

At the end of this season, it could be Grabovski<<< Foligno. Grabs will finally get great ice time that he could never get in Montreal. So, it's do, or die for him, in all honesty.

As for the deal, I think LA could get better, as well.
If that were the case, Montreal would never have traded him.

Don't tell me it's because you have too much depth either.

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Old
09-24-2008, 04:49 PM
  #45
R0bert0 Lu0ng0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsBearcat View Post
He wasn't asking for Kopitar.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospec...ick_o_sullivan

Quote:
Over the course of his OHL career, O’Sullivan has earned many player of the week nods, he was invited to the 2003 CHL Top Prospects Game, he’s been an all-star, and he led the IceDogs in scoring in all three years with the team, easily making it to the franchise leader in all offensive categories.

...

He attended the Wild training camp in 2003 but was an early cut. He was given instruction by Lemaire and the Wild starting then and he showed a noticeable increase in maturity over the course of the 2003-04 season. The highlight seemed to be his two-goal performance, including the game winner, in the final game of the World Junior Championships in Helsinki, Finland.

...

The IceDogs eventually double shifted him at even strength most games along with assigning him to first power play and penalty killing units. The bigger the game the better O’Sullivan seems to play, and he thrives on a leadership role.

...

The picture is not all rosy, however, as O’Sullivan has taken too many penalties, often retaliatory, throughout his hockey career.
Looks to me like a feisty player that has always led his teams in scoring and come up big in the clutch, and has increasingly developed the side of his game that makes him a leader as well.

But no, you're right - they didn't ask for Kopitar.

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Old
09-24-2008, 04:53 PM
  #46
The Fuhr
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Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
they must smoke some really REALLY REALLY good CRACK up there in Senatorville. A Proven NHL player for a cant hack it prospect, a cant hack it on D or O and a 2nd. Makes sense.


I would rather keep and develop Foligno, then bring O'Sullivan in.

Foligno is a cross between a Fisher and a Ruutu, will be one of the top agitators in the game when his development is done.

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Old
09-24-2008, 05:26 PM
  #47
Hale The Villain
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Originally Posted by The Big Swede View Post
That's low

Taking a shot at our weakness but then again it doesn't surprise me from a Sens fan
That's low?

Low would be saying your team is stuck in quicksand and will be for the next 5 years, have fun watching them

And Grabovski does have better offensive potential than Foligno but his defensive game, his gritty play, his toughness, his aggravation and his bloodlines make him a lot better. Although Grabovski is clearly better offensively

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Old
09-24-2008, 05:40 PM
  #48
tony d
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O'Sullivan would be a good pick-up for Ottawa while the other 2 players would add depth to L.A., so good deal for both sides.

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Old
09-24-2008, 05:46 PM
  #49
Joey Moss
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I think its an alright offer actually. Foligno and O'Sullivan are similar players (O'Sullivan being better though). Schubert switched to Kelly and than L.A might think twice.

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Old
09-24-2008, 06:43 PM
  #50
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O'Sullivan should get 2.7 - 3.3 for two years. After that, he will still be a RFA and can be adequately assessed as to whether or not he deserves a 5 year, 5 - 6 per extension well into his UFA years.

I don't understand what's so hard.

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