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Luca Sbisa

View Poll Results: When decision time comes, will he stay in the NHL or be sent back to juniors?
Yes, he will stay with the Flyers 98 75.38%
No, he will be sent back to juniors 32 24.62%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-14-2008, 10:19 PM
  #351
BringBackStevens
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Whether its best for him to be on the team is pretty much irrelevant right now. He needs to be on this team. We would be sunk on the blue line right now without him. He has to stay.

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10-14-2008, 10:20 PM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If we used that philosphy, Bryan Berard would be on the team too.


Since the power play looks like trash, he'd be nice to have.


You see a 18-year old who should be the 4th defenseman.
No, Berard isn't on the team because he sucks, not for any other reason

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10-14-2008, 10:24 PM
  #353
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I just hope he doesnt end up like Eminger. He stayed past his 9 games, regressed and was sent down after like 25 games

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10-14-2008, 10:29 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Whether its best for him to be on the team is pretty much irrelevant right now. He needs to be on this team. We would be sunk on the blue line right now without him. He has to stay.
We're already sunk on the blueline, he isn't changing that. It is very relevant because the plan for Sbisa is his next 10 years, not 10 months. Frankly it is selfish to keep him on the team. He is not physically mature to handle the rigors of an 82 game season. If Sbisa has to stay out of necessity, it will just prove that the Flyers had a poor off-season, and really were not a Stanley Cup contender, and it will be a theme in games repeatedly throughout the season. The kid will break at some point. There was a reason he was taken 19th overall. If he was the boy-wonder he we wouldn't have been in position to take him, and that's something that may change when you go from 20 years-old to 21, but not from 17 to 18. There is something people (most people) are missing and it would be most responsible for Holmgren to let him complete filling out his frame and his game and not expose both at the NHL level.

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10-14-2008, 10:29 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If we used that philosphy, Bryan Berard would be on the team too.


Since the power play looks like trash, he'd be nice to have.


You see a 18-year old who should be the 4th defenseman.

I see a team that isn't ready to be a Stanley Cup contenders. When it comes out to it, he's not going to be ready to physically handle the challenge. The long-term development of the player is most important here, and being in the NHL the whole season is not conducive for that.
Just because he may get physically stronger over the years doesn't meant he's not physically strong enough to play in the NHL right now. He's 190 pounds and tested great in the V02 test.

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10-14-2008, 10:41 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
No, Berard isn't on the team because he sucks, not for any other reason
If you listed the top 6 defensemen who had the best camp, Berard would be on that list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
Just because he may get physically stronger over the years doesn't meant he's not physically strong enough to play in the NHL right now. He's 190 pounds and tested great in the V02 test.
He has shown he isn't physically strong enough a number of times. 190 lbs is not big enough, only Kukkonen is smaller. I don't care about no damn test, I see what's going on in the game. People are so enamored that he doesn't do stupid things moving the puck that they're missing the things that WILL be exploited as the season goes on.

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10-14-2008, 10:51 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If you listed the top 6 defensemen who had the best camp, Berard would be on that list.



He has shown he isn't physically strong enough a number of times. 190 lbs is not big enough, only Kukkonen is smaller. I don't care about no damn test, I see what's going on in the game. People are so enamored that he doesn't do stupid things moving the puck that they're missing the things that WILL be exploited as the season goes on.
Or they're just not pyschic like you are.

GKJ, it's not about absolutes all the time. Sam Gagner played at 18 and wasn't "physically ready" for the NHL. Yet, his play dictated him staying.

Your opinion on whether the Flyers have a Stanley Cup caliber team is irrelevant. Compared to what we have, he has earned his spot. Sending a player back even after he's outplayed half your defense corps could be just as detrimental to his confidence.

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10-14-2008, 10:58 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If you listed the top 6 defensemen who had the best camp, Berard would be on that list.



He has shown he isn't physically strong enough a number of times. 190 lbs is not big enough, only Kukkonen is smaller. I don't care about no damn test, I see what's going on in the game. People are so enamored that he doesn't do stupid things moving the puck that they're missing the things that WILL be exploited as the season goes on.
Really, so I guess Tobias Enstrom, Mathieu Schneider, Duncan Keith, Brian Campbell, NICK LIDSTROM, Niklas Kronwall, Ryan Suter, JM Liles, Lubomir Visnovsky, M-A Bergeron, KIM JOHNSSON, Marek Zidlicky, Kevin Bieksa, Scott Niedermeyer, and Dan Boyle aren't big enough.

The issue at stake is not his play, it's that you're saying he's not physically ready/strong enough. In reality, I think you don't want to be wrong since all preseason you were claiming anyone who even thought the Flyers would entertain the thought of keeping Sbisa around for a single game was delusional.

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10-15-2008, 12:35 AM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
We're already sunk on the blueline, he isn't changing that. It is very relevant because the plan for Sbisa is his next 10 years, not 10 months. Frankly it is selfish to keep him on the team. He is not physically mature to handle the rigors of an 82 game season. If Sbisa has to stay out of necessity, it will just prove that the Flyers had a poor off-season, and really were not a Stanley Cup contender, and it will be a theme in games repeatedly throughout the season. The kid will break at some point. There was a reason he was taken 19th overall. If he was the boy-wonder he we wouldn't have been in position to take him, and that's something that may change when you go from 20 years-old to 21, but not from 17 to 18. There is something people (most people) are missing and it would be most responsible for Holmgren to let him complete filling out his frame and his game and not expose both at the NHL level.
I think you're over analyzing things. The kid has shown more skill and composure than 3/4's of our current defensemen, in a matter of 3 games. I'm just having trouble understanding how sending him to an amateur league will help him progress if he's already able to compete with some of the top teams in the NHL? I say give the kid a shot this season, toughen him up for the vigor that is the NHL. This kid may just be that needle in a haystack player.

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10-15-2008, 12:37 AM
  #360
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Well, we are still getting WAY ahead of ourselves here. He still have 6 games left on his "evaluation" and anyhting can happen in that time. He could beging to flop, getting exposed and showing his inexperience. He could continue to play well above his 18-years and make it damn near impossible for us to send him down.

I don't know what will happen and frankly none of you do either. To say he's definitely staying because he looked good after just 3 games is as rediculous as saying he has no chance of staying and that it would be irresponsible to keep him. Maybe he actually IS ready, maybe he's that rare case that can step onto an NHL blueline at 18 and not wet the bed.

All we can do is examine his body of work to date. He played damn good tonight against the Pens and he was sent out their against Crosby A LOT of the time. Honestly, Sbisa played Crosby about as well as I've seen anyone EVER play him. Sbisa showed the speed to shadow Crosby and stick on him like flies on "you-know-what". He could turn with Crosby and stayed right on his hip, not 10 feet away from him like most others have to do or else they'd get juked out of their jocks. Additionally, next to Timonen, Sbisa is our BEST puck handler on the blue line. He's better than Coburn, he's better than Jones and he's better than all the rest. He's so good (or so it seems that HE thinks he is) that he tends to hold on to the puck and circle trying to make a play at times when he should be taking the safe play and getting the puck out of the zone. I noticed a number of times tonight where he started up one side, got pressure and circled back the other way behind his own goal when he was the last man back. One of these times he's going to get his pocket picked and he's gonna give someone and easy goal. There are times to play with the puck and carry it up ice and there are times to just dump it out. He doesn't seem to have that "fear" of being the last man back and the consequenses of what will happen if/when he loses the puck while playing around back at his own goal.

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10-15-2008, 12:42 AM
  #361
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I saw him throw a penquin player to the boards and down to the ice while chasing a puck in the offensive zone late in the third period. He's not afraid to mix it up. I only got to see the end of tonights game, but it seems like he is already gaining confidence.

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10-15-2008, 12:42 AM
  #362
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Was quite impressed watching him tonight. Very fluid skater, looked poised with the puck and appeared to keep things simple in the defensive zone. Loved the shift in the 3rd where he skated the puck up to the red line on the PP, dumped it in, and proceded to kill Eaton and establish possession of the puck.

I only got to see the third period of the game and didn't realize who he was (thought they kept calling "Spezza" was trying to figure out if Jason had a brother) until midway through the period, but I definitely want to watch another Flyers game to see more of Sbisa during his "tryout" in the show.

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10-15-2008, 01:03 AM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If you listed the top 6 defensemen who had the best camp, Berard would be on that list.



He has shown he isn't physically strong enough a number of times. 190 lbs is not big enough, only Kukkonen is smaller. I don't care about no damn test, I see what's going on in the game. People are so enamored that he doesn't do stupid things moving the puck that they're missing the things that WILL be exploited as the season goes on.
And when sbisa stays past the ten games I can still see you with your head up your ass saying hes not ready. Age isn't everything its about talent and hes got it. You are way to stuck on this he can't do it thing when you should just be happy that we had a real steal in the draft.

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10-15-2008, 06:23 AM
  #364
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The thing that I dont get is, if they dont plan on keeping him why would they pair him with Coburn. The way i see it, if they are jsut giving him a look they wouldnt completely change around their defensive pairings just to see him. You would think they wouldnt want to have to change up their top 2 pairings 9 games into the season. if I was a coach giving a guy a look I would put him on the 3rd pairing so that the top 2 pairings can get used to each other and so that he doesnt play so much. The kid is gettign a lot of icetime, and quality icetime at that, not just against 3rd and 4th lines. I just dont see why they would run him out for 17 minutes a game and on the 2nd pairing if they dont plan on keeping him around. I wish Jones and parent were here ebcause i would like to see sbisa get another year in juniors before playing with the flyers but it seems to me like they might be planning on keeping him unless he starts to really get exposed in the next couple weeks. I thought it would be a "play your way onto the team" kind of thing but the way things are going it seems like they are taking the "your on the team unless you play yourself off of the team" kind of approach.

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10-15-2008, 06:52 AM
  #365
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I'm getting sick of hearing the "he can't handle the rigors of an 82 game schedule" and the "he isn't physically strong enough" argument.

I was one of the people saying there is almost 0 chance of him making the team. The fact of the matter is we had 0 plans of him making the team, however long term injuries to 2 of our better defenseman, and the fact the Sbisa outplayed our handful of borderline AHL/NHL guys (Ramholt, Syvret, Guenin, Kukkonen etc.) has resulted in where we are right now; with Sbisa playing, and playing extremely well.

Pat Kane was absolutely TINY last year and he was absolutely fine. Yea, yea...I get it...he's a forward; but we've all the heard the too small argument before. We can be weary of it, because it's warranted, but people need to stop speaking like this is 1998 and if you weren't 6'3'' you were small. The league is chock full of small players...as well as very young (plenty of 18 yr old), small players as well. It's a different league, and every player is different. You can't generalize and assume it's the case for everyone...that's how racism still exists .

You also can't manage a team for TODAY by worrying about the team in 40 games.

I've been preaching to everyone I know all preseason that Sbisa wouldn't make this team. Then I was preaching he wouldn't see the light of day past 9 games. I'm admitting I was wrong (granted based on small sample size).

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10-15-2008, 07:05 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I'm getting sick of hearing the "he can't handle the rigors of an 82 game schedule" and the "he isn't physically strong enough" argument.

I was one of the people saying there is almost 0 chance of him making the team. The fact of the matter is we had 0 plans of him making the team, however long term injuries to 2 of our better defenseman, and the fact the Sbisa outplayed our handful of borderline AHL/NHL guys (Ramholt, Syvret, Guenin, Kukkonen etc.) has resulted in where we are right now; with Sbisa playing, and playing extremely well.

Pat Kane was absolutely TINY last year and he was absolutely fine. Yea, yea...I get it...he's a forward; but we've all the heard the too small argument before. We can be weary of it, because it's warranted, but people need to stop speaking like this is 1998 and if you weren't 6'3'' you were small. The league is chock full of small players...as well as very young (plenty of 18 yr old), small players as well. It's a different league, and every player is different. You can't generalize and assume it's the case for everyone...that's how racism still exists .

You also can't manage a team for TODAY by worrying about the team in 40 games.

I've been preaching to everyone I know all preseason that Sbisa wouldn't make this team. Then I was preaching he wouldn't see the light of day past 9 games. I'm admitting I was wrong (granted based on small sample size).
Sorry, can't agree with you on this. It should be a legitimate concern and failure to account for this is naive. While I hope he can endure the rigor of an 82 game season + playoffs - it's a lot to ask for. Contingency plans must be in place if we are to keep him.

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10-15-2008, 07:17 AM
  #367
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Sorry, can't agree with you on this. It should be a legitimate concern and failure to account for this is naive. While I hope he can endure the rigor of an 82 game season + playoffs - it's a lot to ask for. Contingency plans must be in place if we are to keep him.
I'm not saying don't have a contingency plan...that is just smart risk mitigation; but IMO, you can't NOT play him because you are scared he MIGHT get worn down a bit.

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10-15-2008, 07:23 AM
  #368
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it seems kind of silly to complain or worry about something Sbisa has not done yet.

all he has done so far is show he can play in the NHL. When he starts to consistently slow down because of fatigue, then it makes sense to question whether he can handle the rigors of an 82 game season.

But since he has not done that, there is no reason to claim he will. It does not matter how knowledgeable you are at hockey, or what the numbers claim. Every player is different, and until Sbisa shows he should not be up here, he should be given every shot to succeed. And so far he has.

just my opinion though. *shrug*

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10-15-2008, 07:24 AM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkoll View Post
it seems kind of silly to complain or worry about something Sbisa has not done yet.

all he has done is show he can play in the NHL. When he starts to consistently slow down because of fatigue, then it makes sense to question whether he can handle the rigors of an 82 game season.

But since he has not done that, there is no reason to claim he will. It does not matter how knowledgeable you are at hockey, or what the numbers claim. Every player is different, and until Sbisa shows he should not be up here, he should be given every shot to succeed. And so far he has.

just my opinion though. *shrug*
Agreed.

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10-15-2008, 07:26 AM
  #370
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I feel like it's just as absurd as a potential employer saying something like ....you have a history of cancer in your family, even though you are certainly qualified for this position, and we'd love to have you; we've decided not to extend an offer because you might get cancer...eventually...maybe. I also might develop a genetic mutation and be able to teleport.



....I really took that one pretty far.

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10-15-2008, 08:16 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He has shown he isn't physically strong enough a number of times. 190 lbs is not big enough, only Kukkonen is smaller. I don't care about no damn test, I see what's going on in the game. People are so enamored that he doesn't do stupid things moving the puck that they're missing the things that WILL be exploited as the season goes on.
You mean like when he won the puck on the boards from Malkin?

I honestly don't know what you're looking at; there's some kind of psychological block at work.

In a world without preconceived notions -- if we knew absolutely nothing about any of the Flyers (not age, not background, not anything) and had to base our opinions only through what we witnessed the first three games -- I think the vast majority of us would say not only that Sbisa belongs in the NHL, but that Sbisa is one of the best players on the team.

He is such a class above guys like Kukkonen, Alberts, Eminger, and Vaananen it isn't even funny. The thought of sending Sbisa back to Lethbridge and replacing him with one of the above is a flabbergasting proposition.

I think he'd make a great pair with Ryan Parent when Parent returns (Timonen-Coburn; Sbisa-Parent; Jones-Vaananen).

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10-15-2008, 08:24 AM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I feel like it's just as absurd as a potential employer saying something like ....you have a history of cancer in your family, even though you are certainly qualified for this position, and we'd love to have you; we've decided not to extend an offer because you might get cancer...eventually...maybe. I also might develop a genetic mutation and be able to teleport.



....I really took that one pretty far.
thats a little off base but I see your point.

If thats the logic they are going to use then why didnt they aggressively shop gagne after he showed he is injury prone? why bring in eminger knowing he was a healthy scratch for an average defensive team last year? Sometimes you take risks and right now its worth the risk because by the time he starts gettign tired parent and Jones will be back to take off a large chunk of his icetime. By mid season he may start getting worn down playing 17-18 minutes a night but when those 2 come back he will be playing 13-14 minutes a night against other teams 3rd lines and I think he can handle that load.

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10-15-2008, 08:34 AM
  #373
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I'm not saying don't have a contingency plan...that is just smart risk mitigation; but IMO, you can't NOT play him because you are scared he MIGHT get worn down a bit.
I agree and I am in favor of having Sbisa play. However, I do like to look at things objectively and his age/size over 82+ games do worry me slightly. Even Malkin got tired at the end of his season last year...

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10-15-2008, 09:07 AM
  #374
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I've only seen Sbisa play one game (against my Habs) but he really impressed me. Very poised, good skater. Defensively aware.

Based on that game, the only reason I see to send him down is to not burn a year towards FA eligibility.

If Parent develops as expected, the Flyers will be a force in the conference for years.

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10-15-2008, 09:25 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
We're already sunk on the blueline, he isn't changing that. It is very relevant because the plan for Sbisa is his next 10 years, not 10 months. Frankly it is selfish to keep him on the team. He is not physically mature to handle the rigors of an 82 game season. If Sbisa has to stay out of necessity, it will just prove that the Flyers had a poor off-season, and really were not a Stanley Cup contender, and it will be a theme in games repeatedly throughout the season. The kid will break at some point. There was a reason he was taken 19th overall. If he was the boy-wonder he we wouldn't have been in position to take him, and that's something that may change when you go from 20 years-old to 21, but not from 17 to 18. There is something people (most people) are missing and it would be most responsible for Holmgren to let him complete filling out his frame and his game and not expose both at the NHL level.
Each player is different, phyically/mentally and you don't know his physical/mental makeup as well as the people that are making the decisions that matter.

There is no way this kid is going back. Once Parent/Jones return they can change his role/reduce his minutes if he slows down. There are 5 other 18 year old defensemen starting the season, are these teams all also being reckless? or is it ok since they were all taken in the 1st 6 picks?

Also, he didn't make the team out of necessity, he made it because he's better than the other guys.

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