Andrei Kostitsyn - Tomas Plekanec - Alex Kovalev
Alex Tanguay - Saku Koivu - Christopher Higgins/Max Pacioretty Max Pacioretty/Christopher Higgins - Robert Lang - Sergei Kostitsyn
Guillaume Latendresse - Kyle Chipchura - George Laraque
Andrei Kostitsyn - Tomas Plekanec - Alex Kovalev
Alex Tanguay - Saku Koivu - Christopher Higgins/Max Pacioretty Max Pacioretty/Christopher Higgins - Robert Lang - Sergei Kostitsyn
Guillaume Latendresse - Kyle Chipchura - George Laraque
Andrei Kostitsyn - Tomas Plekanec - Alex Kovalev
Alex Tanguay - Saku Koivu - Christopher Higgins/Max Pacioretty Max Pacioretty/Christopher Higgins - Robert Lang - Sergei Kostitsyn
Guillaume Latendresse - Kyle Chipchura - George Laraque
If pacioretty begins the year in MTL, i would make him start on the fourth line... Why?
Because I think that he needs to be adjusting to a pro style hockey game before being relied upon. The guy have been playing in a 40 games a season style of play and we want him to contribute already and be a key part of our offence? I do not think it would be appropriate. This is why I'd rather see him, play on fourth line with chipchura than on the second line, where he'll get too much pressure
For those who say it would ruin his development, I would answer to them that a certain Joe... Playing for a certain Boston NHL hockey team started his career on the fourth line and ended being quite an important asset for a certain San Jose NHL team a few later
For those who say it would ruin his development, I would answer to them that a certain Joe... Playing for a certain Boston NHL hockey team started his career on the fourth line and ended being quite an important asset for a certain San Jose NHL team a few later
Fourth liners don't win you Cups. Guess thats right with a certain Joe
I didn't realise the team had "quickness" requirements. I guess Laraque O'byrne and Komisarek will have to be cut or traded
O'Byrne and Komisarek are not quick.... Do you watch the games??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup
For those who say it would ruin his development, I would answer to them that a certain Joe... Playing for a certain Boston NHL hockey team started his career on the fourth line and ended being quite an important asset for a certain San Jose NHL team a few later
Big difference with Joe Thornton.... he couldn't go to the AHL... it was Boston or OHL. 8 min in the NHL > 20 minutes in the OHL for someone who has already dominated that league and learned everything they can in the OHL.
For a guy who has yet to play an AHL game, ala MaxPac
20 min in the AHL >> 8 min in the NHL.
O'Byrne and Komisarek are not quick.... Do you watch the games??
Big difference with Joe Thornton.... he couldn't go to the AHL... it was Boston or OHL. 8 min in the NHL > 20 minutes in the OHL for someone who has already dominated that league and learned everything they can in the OHL.
For a guy who has yet to play an AHL game, ala MaxPac
20 min in the AHL >> 8 min in the NHL.
the point is not about playing Ahl or NHl, the point is about top line vs 4th line
The debate about whether a young player is better off with little ice time in the NHL or more ice time in the AHL comes up almost every year and is never resolved. I say it depends not only on his talent level and physical and emotional maturity, but also on whether there's an opening for him. Not every player picked in the draft is a Crosby or Ovechkin, who could immediately make any team in any era. Pacioretty would probably make the starting lineup of most NHL teams right now. It's not so clear that Chipchura would. Pacioretty might play part of the season in Hamilton and part in Montréal his firtst pro year. Chipchura couldn't stick with last year's team, which was weaker than this year's, so he had to wait longer.
the point is not about playing Ahl or NHl, the point is about top line vs 4th line
So the league where you are playing Top Line doesn't make a difference....
if that were the case, there's room on the top line of my Tier II intramural league at Queen's....
Puh-lease.... The competition he will play against is a major factor dude, you can't deny that. The competition you play against is a major factor in development... and that is what we are talking about here..... Clearly he is better than Begin or kostopolous right now... but is it better for his development to play on the 4th line in Montreal or the 1st line in Hamilton.
So the league where you are playing Top Line doesn't make a difference....
if that were the case, there's room on the top line of my Tier II intramural league at Queen's....
Puh-lease.... The competition he will play against is a major factor dude, you can't deny that. The competition you play against is a major factor in development... and that is what we are talking about here..... Clearly he is better than Begin or kostopolous right now... but is it better for his development to play on the 4th line in Montreal or the 1st line in Hamilton.
I thnik pressure too does have a great part to play on development, see Anze Kopitar who will be great, of course, but that he was given so many responsibilities to handle by giving him the mandate to make his team playoff worthy that he still takes a bit of time for him to pan out and become truly elite
My opinion about the fourth line is that Pac if he indeed stays should start the year with a checking line role, giving him a good mix of opposition, when we know Carbo loves to roll 4 lines and low pressure because he will only play on fourth line
but this is only my vision about him playing here, i know that the AHL is the better solution
So the league where you are playing Top Line doesn't make a difference....
if that were the case, there's room on the top line of my Tier II intramural league at Queen's....
Puh-lease.... The competition he will play against is a major factor dude, you can't deny that. The competition you play against is a major factor in development... and that is what we are talking about here..... Clearly he is better than Begin or kostopolous right now... but is it better for his development to play on the 4th line in Montreal or the 1st line in Hamilton.
He could use first line experience, and he would get it in Hamilton. His opportunities would be limited in Montréal. Would he make the same passes to Tanguay that he would to Laraque, a likely linemate?
I just don't think Chipchura has improved enough to deserve a place on the Habs. Sure he did well on a couple of occasions, but he still seems to be as inconsistent as ever in the faceoffs circle, and more often than not, in the defensive zone, he was not doing THAT good IMO... well at least not enough.
Some people may disagree, but Lapierre is by far more competitve on the ice, and the Laraque factor play in his favor. He is by far faster than Chipchura, and he's better in the faceoffs circle.
Chipchura just seems like sometimes he makes good things, but some other times he still looks like an AHL player.
He didn't impress me much... in opposite to most of you.
The point is, if there was room, there would be no problem, but Chipchura is really not good enough to make the coaching staff play with the projected roster to make some room for him.
Oh, and by the way, Patches is great and I'm slowly falling in love with the player he is, but let's try to stay rational here. The team is set, we have great depth, let's not rush things up just so he can make the team after a great training camp. Trading pieces to make room for him would mean less depth. We'll get some injuries, and he'll get his chance. But right now, the kid also has to play top line minutes, which he'll not with the big club. Let him time to adapt to the pros. Let's not rush things up. He's only 19, and he's a great part of our great future. Let's not make the mistake many teams did and let's try to keep our "winning window" wide opened for several years again...
Last edited by HamrlikTheStud*: 10-02-2008 at 11:50 PM.
Exactly... you look at them and assume they will be a slow skater... but they have the wheels to keep up with almost any NHL forward out there...
This started as a comparison of their speed with Latendresse's speed.... its not even close.
Not all small guys are fast - see Corey Locke. Not all big guys are slow.
I agree with everything there, but let's not get vrazy. Komisarek's speed is far, very far from being his bread and butter. He's arguable bottom-5 on the team when it comes to speed. He makes up for it with a great positional game, a great reading of the plays and with his huge shoulders, but at 240, it's hard to be "fast". Compare him to other 240 pounds player, that's another story. But at this weight, forget it, there's nobody fast.
I just don't think Chipchura has improved enough to deserve a place on the Habs. Sure he did well on a couple of occasions, but he still seems to be as inconsistent as ever in the faceoffs circle, and more often than not, in the defensive zone, he was not doing THAT good IMO... well at least not enough.
Some people may disagree, but Lapierre is by far more competitve on the ice, and the Laraque factor play in his favor. He is by far faster than Chipchura, and he's better in the faceoffs circle.
Chipchura just seems like sometimes he makes good things, but some other times he still looks like an AHL player.
He didn't impress me much... in opposite to most of you.
The point is, if there was room, there would be no problem, but Chipchura is really not good enough to make the coaching staff play with the projected roster to make some room for him.
Oh, and by the way, Patches is great and I'm slowly falling in love with the player he is, but let's try to stay rational here. The team is set, we have great depth, let's not rush things up just so he can make the team after a great training camp. Trading pieces to make room for him would mean less depth. We'll get some injuries, and he'll get his chance. But right now, the kid also has to play top line minutes, which he'll not with the big club. Let him time to adapt to the pros. Let's not rush things up. He's only 19, and he's a great part of our great future. Let's not make the mistake many teams did and let's try to keep our "winning window" wide opened for several years again...
Are you kidding me? Chipchura was head and shoulders above Lapierre in preaseson. He was one of our best fowards during preseason considering his linemates. He made things happen offensively, was sound defensively. Lapierre was lifeless, he's suppose to be an energy player but his playing like he thinks he's above this. Granted preseasons games are not the best place for energy players, he did not play like his job is on the line. I still can't believe you weren't impressed with Kyle's play...
I've yet to see Chipchura actually hit someone by purpose...
With the little players we have up front, we desperately need a grinder line. Lapierre fits the mold much more than Chipchura. Like if his speed and his grinding was not enough of an advantage, he's also better in the faceoffs circle...
And come on... Chipchura impressive?! He was BRUTAL at the beginning of the training camp. He doesn't fit the mold, is arguably the slower in the system... I just don't like this player. Nothing against the guy in particular, but I just don't like this type of player. IMO, he didn't improve his faceoffs, nor his speed, nor his consistency. He's maybe a little better in the "O" zone, but it's not what will bring him in the NHL.
This team needs Lapierres, Begins, Kostopoulos, Laraques way before guys like Chip.
Has anyone compiled Chipchura's faceoff stats for the entire pre-season? I know he went 2 for 8 one game, but overall he's been much better than that. He looks good, and appears ready to stay up, in my opinion.
By the way, for those that say Chip must play his way onto the team, you've got it backwards. Gainey says the fourth line spot is his, unless he plays his way off the team.
"Kyle will be coming into camp as the fourth centre and it will be his job to lose," Gainey said.
This is the 2nd camp in a row that Lapierre doesn't deserve to make this team. He was ok last year, but he needs to play hard from camp to the end of the year if he wants to be an NHLer.
