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Leafs too many dmen-Kaberle only bait left.

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Old
09-25-2008, 06:23 PM
  #1
darrylsittler27
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Leafs too many dmen-Kaberle only bait left.

With Kubina,Finger,Covo,Stralman,Van Ryn,Frogen and even White To. has one too many Dmen.If Schenn makes the team it is a logjam.Since To. won't win the cup it only makes sense to let young guys play and develop.Covo.,Stralman,Schenn and White should be played heavily this year,so we can get our lumps over with.So why would Kaberle stay?He will soon be a UFA and we wont be overpaying him.Fletcher needs to focus on trading Kaberle for some real offensive help upfront.Otherwise,Sundin wont be back and Kaberle is playing in vain robbing young guys of much needed development time.Kubina,Finger,Van Ryn is plenty veteran presence and Kubina has a cup ring.Sorry Kabs but your skills are better served on a team like Philly.

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09-25-2008, 06:35 PM
  #2
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every team has to overpay somebody and Kaberle is the one that's worth it.

guys like Kaberle are very rare. he is only 30, is very durable and still looks 22 he will have a long career left as an elite dman in the NHL.

in a few years time, we will need someone like Kaberle. and I think people are too quick to anoint Stralman as his heir. It's just the wrong move.

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09-25-2008, 06:40 PM
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defence in my opinion is the only position in the nhl where you only get better the more games u play, its not like forward where if u have talent u can ride it, in defence u learn by playing different forwards. so your right, i think white needs alot more playing time and people need to stop singling him out as the root of our problems

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09-25-2008, 06:47 PM
  #4
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Kaberle would bring us in some nice building blocks in trade.

The trick is when is the best time to move him ..Now, or at the deadline or next entry draft.

I would love a do over and take Jeff Carter and 1st like we had completed at the trade deadline.

If Leafs could trade Kaberle + pick to move up and draft 1st next summer then that would be something very interesting as well.

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09-25-2008, 07:26 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
Sorry Kabs but your skills are better served on a team like Philly.
I agree, that is why Philly is the last place I want to see him go.

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09-25-2008, 09:23 PM
  #6
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kaberle has a NMC and chances are... he wouldn't waive it until the deadline.

secondly, schenn isn't making the team this year...

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09-25-2008, 09:39 PM
  #7
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These defenders should be kept:

Kaberle
Kubina
Stralman
Frogren
Colaiacovo
Krownall
Finger

These guys should be flushed, and keeping with current team philosophy getting a good return isn't important.

Van Ryn should be waived or dealt for 4th. rounder, and White dealt for some depth youth.

Keep in mind many here were quite willing to deal McCabe including a draft pick to rid his contract, so Van Ryn is already sunk cost.

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09-25-2008, 09:59 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
These defenders should be kept:

Kaberle
Kubina
Stralman
Frogren
Colaiacovo
Krownall
Finger

These guys should be flushed, and keeping with current team philosophy getting a good return isn't important.

Van Ryn should be waived or dealt for 4th. rounder, and White dealt for some depth youth.

Keep in mind many here were quite willing to deal McCabe including a draft pick to rid his contract, so Van Ryn is already sunk cost.
Agreed with the 7 dman ULF. I have nothing against MVR, but he just doesn't fit here right now. Ideally he's dealt for whatever the best we can get is. If he's not though, and I don't see it happening unfortunately, I question whether or not management has the gumption to waive him.. leaving Kronwall to hopefully sneak down to the minors. Risky.

I really don't care what they do with White, he has no spot on this team. Best for him and the team to part ways, good luck to him. Hate to lose any young NHL player to waivers, but any GM should be able to recognize that in all likelihood he'll be available off waivers, hard to get a good return dealing from that position. With any luck a team with lousy waiver priority will take a shine to him and give up a pick to get him before he hits waivers, about all we can hope for.

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09-26-2008, 01:11 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
He will soon be a UFA and we wont be overpaying him.Fletcher needs to focus on trading Kaberle for some real offensive help upfront.
Since when does 3 years on a contract make you "soon to be UFA". and most certainly it doesn't mean it should be Cliff's focus. Cliff's focus should be on getting good young talent, and not so focussed on forwards or defenceman. If he is going to trade Kabs it should be for the right deal, and whether that is now, or at the deadline or at the draft is not for me to say. Certainly the NTC will have a big say as to when that should be the focus.

My point is, if you can get a better deal at the draft than now, it is worth the risk of losing White or Kronwall to waivers to wait for that trade. There is no rush on this matter.

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09-26-2008, 01:25 AM
  #10
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Do Not Trade Kaberle

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09-26-2008, 07:51 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Kaberle would bring us in some nice building blocks in trade.

The trick is when is the best time to move him ..Now, or at the deadline or next entry draft.
Deadline, for sure. Teams always overpay and I'd like a quality forward, plus 1st, for him.

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09-26-2008, 07:54 AM
  #12
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If the Leafs are aiming to compete in 2-3 years, they need to keep Kaberle.

I think we might see a big step down this season due to no McCabe though.

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09-26-2008, 08:55 AM
  #13
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I only really care about keeping Stralman and Schenn in the long term, although it would be nice to keep Kaberle too because his smooth puck skills are going to have his career last into his late 30's. All of Kubina, Van Ryn, Colaiacovo, White, Finger and Frogren should be available at the right price. Kubina's effectiveness is going to be slipping soon, if not already with his recent inconsistent seasons. Van Ryn doesn't look like much so far to me. Colaiacovo cannot be counted upon. White isn't quite good enough with the puck to compensate for his size/defensive coverage deficiencies. Colorado let Finger go, I hope he's better than I suspect he is, and that should be a warning flag.

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09-26-2008, 09:04 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Caesium View Post
If the Leafs are aiming to compete in 2-3 years, they need to keep Kaberle.

I think we might see a big step down this season due to no McCabe though.

As good as Kaberle is, the combination of Coliacovo, Stralman and Schenn have the potential to maybe come close to replacing Kaberle, or at least not make it too painfull. IMO the Leafs have some young talent on the blueline that could step up over time. I agree, the loss of McCabe will be felt.

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09-26-2008, 10:10 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Kaberle would bring us in some nice building blocks in trade.

The trick is when is the best time to move him ..Now, or at the deadline or next entry draft.

I would love a do over and take Jeff Carter and 1st like we had completed at the trade deadline.

If Leafs could trade Kaberle + pick to move up and draft 1st next summer then that would be something very interesting as well.
Whoever has the first overall pick is not going to deal for Kabby and a pick. Tavares and Hedman are both franchise players and would absolutely massive building blocks for the future.

If I'm the Leafs I take my chances and see where I end up at the draft and I would trade Kaberle to a team that is willing to offer a first round pick and a very good young roster player or two. I agree with you Mess and I would love for the Leafs to revisit that Carter proposal. I would have dealt Kaberle for Carter and a 1st rounder but if the Leafs can get Parent included as well (which was rumoured according to some people) I would be ecstatic.

I think the Leafs would be much better off having Carter, Parent and two first rounders (one being theirs ofcourse)

The Leafs have the potential to add a Tavares, Hedman, Schenn, etc along with another player later in the 1st round like Bubnick, Lander, Glennie, etc along with Carter and Parent.

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09-26-2008, 10:17 AM
  #16
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First off, I haven't read anything that leads me to believe the Flyers offer is real.

I think it's a media rumour without any substance other than wishful fantasy by some delusional fans.

Teams outside the playoffs don't offer up lottery picks, or franchise players.

Secondly, Kaberle isn't short term, and could very well be here long after players like Finger, Frogren, Colaiacovo, Kubina and White are long gone.

Teams without veterans don't win the Cup.


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09-26-2008, 12:29 PM
  #17
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Kaberle still has a couple years left on his deal, but to be honest I don't think his value will ever be as high as it was last year deadline day. Reason being one less year left on that great contract. Also It seems since he was concussed, hes taken a couple steps back hasn't been the same. He hasn't been as aware, and as good as he was in previous years. With his value dropping, I'd like to trade him, We have a good amount of Young Defenceman to fill his void. We keep Kubina who is the better of the two at this time.

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Old
09-26-2008, 01:45 PM
  #18
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you dont get better by trading you're best players(who are top 10 at position in the whole league at that) who are still in their prime. simple as that.

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09-26-2008, 02:32 PM
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you dont get better by trading you're best players(who are top 10 at position in the whole league at that) who are still in their prime. simple as that.
Some have a goal of getting younger.

Getting better would only be accidental.

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09-26-2008, 02:44 PM
  #20
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If Kaberle is moved, Cliff should ask for a top 4 blueliner for starters + at least 2 more assets coming to the Leafs.

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09-26-2008, 02:54 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Kaberle would bring us in some nice building blocks in trade.

The trick is when is the best time to move him ..Now, or at the deadline or next entry draft.

I would love a do over and take Jeff Carter and 1st like we had completed at the trade deadline.

If Leafs could trade Kaberle + pick to move up and draft 1st next summer then that would be something very interesting as well.
I still agree that this is the best way to go. Kabs to philly. They have the most depth of prospects and need a solid top line D.

Two questions for you tho if you dont mind. 1.) do you think carter and a first was fair, or should the leafs be holding out for more? Typically the package for a player like kabs on that contract is a blue chip youngster, mid to late first and a good (not spectacular)prospect.

2.) If you had philly's pick, who would you have taken? I think they did an excellent job taking Sbisa

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09-26-2008, 03:02 PM
  #22
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Flyers have Cap Issues, and even by dumping a couple defenders on IR, they're close to the cap.

Looking at the Thrashers as a better option, and with more realistic returns in mind.

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09-26-2008, 03:06 PM
  #23
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2.) If you had philly's pick, who would you have taken? I think they did an excellent job taking Sbisa
I don't like hypotheticals, but for the sake of discussion I probably would have gone with Jordan Eberle (especially knowing we have Schenn).

Sbisa is very good though, definitely would be my very close runner-up.

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09-26-2008, 03:20 PM
  #24
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I agree, that is why Philly is the last place I want to see him go.
Why not, you don't think the Leafs will be any threat to the Flyers for a few years do you? Just look at the Prospects they have stored away that haven't played in the nhl yet. Get the best deal you can get and move on.

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09-26-2008, 05:30 PM
  #25
AlMo
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
First off, I haven't read anything that leads me to believe the Flyers offer is real.

I think it's a media rumour without any substance other than wishful fantasy by some delusional fans.

Teams outside the playoffs don't offer up lottery picks, or franchise players.

Secondly, Kaberle isn't short term, and could very well be here long after players like Finger, Frogren, Colaiacovo, Kubina and White are long gone.

Teams without veterans don't win the Cup.
I actually think you're wrong here Ulf. You're right in way as to knowing what the deal "really" was but I do believe there was a Carter-Kaberle discussion. I also think that the deal is dead now. At the time, the Flyers knew that Carter was going to become an RFA and likely didn't have the cap room for him and he was an expendable piece with high value. Umberger changed all of this by having a great playoff run and getting the Flyers a
1st rd pick in return and shedding some salary.

You're are right when saying non-playoff teams don't offer up franchise players or lottery picks but I am not sure who you are referring to? Is it the Leafs with Kaberle? Because he isn't a franchise player. Is it the Flyers with Carter and the 1st? Neither are a franchise player or lottery pick.

I also disagree with you about Kaberle being a long term fixture on the Leafs blue line. Kaberle definantly has alot of years left of good hockey but his age going forward doesn't fit well with the Leafs. If the Leafs were to rebuild properly and seriously contend within 5 years or so Kaberle will be 35 years or older. You must also remember, that in 2 years time, Kaberle's current contract (which is excellent at the moment) will expire and he will be looking for a hefty pay raise at that time. So my question is this, do you really want to offer up a 32/33 year old dman a multi year deal at 7+ million per season. The money isn't the real problem but it all depends on where the Leafs are in terms of progression at that point. If the Leafs are still in the middle of rebuilding I think it would be a foolish move to re-sign Kaberle for those dollars and any lengthy amount of time.
The Leafs have to seriously consider how much they are going to rebuild. Is it just a partial rebuild and try to get back into the playoffs or is it a complete overhaul? Knowing the Leafs, it won't be the latter so keeping Kaberle makes sense but at the same time we, as fans, will suffer for many years to come. If it's a complete overhaul (in which I hope), the Leafs would be wise to trade away their most sought after commodity. Kaberle would give the Leafs a few nice pieces to help them in the future.

I know majority of Leafs fans think the world of Kaberle, as do I, but I just think the Leafs have to do the best thing for their future and that thing might be dealing Kaberle while he still has a couple of years on a very attractable contract and during the prime of his career.

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