HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Yes, but what has really changed?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-25-2004, 03:15 PM
  #1
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,576
vCash: 500
Awards:
Yes, but what has really changed?

We are all overjoyed that Sather is no longer coaching. But what has really changed? He's still the GM and ostensibly will hire the new coach (and haven't we been down that road before?) Seems to me like this would have been an excellent example for Dolan to fire him but that did not happen. And personally, I don't believe that Sather is in danger of losing his job. And if he is in danger of losing his job, why on Earth do you put this teams future (even in the short term) in his hands?

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 03:25 PM
  #2
Rodent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On your dinner plate
Posts: 590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
We are all overjoyed that Sather is no longer coaching. But what has really changed? He's still the GM and ostensibly will hire the new coach (and haven't we been down that road before?) Seems to me like this would have been an excellent example for Dolan to fire him but that did not happen. And personally, I don't believe that Sather is in danger of losing his job. And if he is in danger of losing his job, why on Earth do you put this teams future (even in the short term) in his hands?
The dynamics of the bench can change and so can the atmosphere in the locker room...

IF

Renney takes a strong stand and benches guys who hurt the team and don't follow instructions.

I'm not saying NYR has an ice cube's chance in hell of making the playoffs. But the team can make a solid run at .500 and maybe deliver some "entertainment" in the remaining 1/4 season if guys begin to have faith that Renney will reward players who give effort and will penalize those who are simply going through the motions.

Guys like Holik will also play harder if he knows Renney will line match and allow him to play his checking center role.

And the entire tema will play better if they see Jussi rather than Dunham in net - with the exception of Thursday night.

Rodent is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 03:30 PM
  #3
Fish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 2,177
vCash: 500
As much as I like Renney, I don't feel he's best used as a coach...I guess we'll soon find out.

Fish is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 03:32 PM
  #4
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,473
vCash: 500
It'll be interesting to see, Singin'...

in particular, if it's the status quo with Mess getting 18 minutes, Lundmark on the bench, no matching and other stupid crap, then it'll suck. But if Renney actually had different ideas than Sather, as well as different ideas in regards to accountability, then it's a different story. Renney's gotta feel as though he's fighting for a job...somewhere. If he gets fired from NY, who'd want him.

Fletch is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 03:34 PM
  #5
Rodent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On your dinner plate
Posts: 590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
As much as I like Renney, I don't feel he's best used as a coach...I guess we'll soon find out.
Perhpas you're right. But to me it doesn't make that much difference given the interim nature of the assignment.

He's been in the organization longer than O'Reilly and it's "his" "system". So, there's little rationale to give the reins to Terry at this point.

Maybe Schoeny. But he's got Hartford's playoffs to concentrate upon.

I wouldn't make a big deal of the selection given the meaninglessness of the games.

Rodent is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 03:39 PM
  #6
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 14,042
vCash: 500
Here's what I take out of this whole charade

IF we are to believe that the Rangers are abandoning the star-driven approach that Sather/Dolan or whoever have been directing this franchise, then we take Sather moving out of the coaching position to actually bring in players who will fit into this "new philosophy". Renney is nothing more then someone keeping the seat warm for the next coach. If a system-structured approach is in the making, then Renney goes back to his position as draft day point man, and a coach like either Francis or Quenneville will be looked at thoroughly. It means finally the abandonment of eighties-style, open-ass river hockey (as the great philosopher Larry Melnyk has been knwon to call it.) Sather now takes the time to acquire players who fit into this approach (along with draft picks) and removes himself from the on-ice equation. The rest of the year becomes rehearsal for the next season (be it in October 2004 or whenever). Of course, this all remains to be seen.

jas is online now  
Old
02-25-2004, 03:47 PM
  #7
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,576
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
IF we are to believe that the Rangers are abandoning the star-driven approach that Sather/Dolan or whoever have been directing this franchise, then we take Sather moving out of the coaching position to actually bring in players who will fit into this "new philosophy". Renney is nothing more then someone keeping the seat warm for the next coach. If a system-structured approach is in the making, then Renney goes back to his position as draft day point man, and a coach like either Francis or Quenneville will be looked at thoroughly. It means finally the abandonment of eighties-style, open-ass river hockey (as the great philosopher Larry Melnyk has been knwon to call it.) Sather now takes the time to acquire players who fit into this approach (along with draft picks) and removes himself from the on-ice equation. The rest of the year becomes rehearsal for the next season (be it in October 2004 or whenever). Of course, this all remains to be seen.
So we are to believe that all along Sather, who has never been talked out of anything and always does things his way, was listening to Dolan (who doesn't know a puck from a pancreas) who mandated that Sather bring in a ton of high priced talent and mediocre coaches? Sather now says, "See Jim, it didn't work, now let me do this my way"?

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 04:04 PM
  #8
rw88
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
So we are to believe that all along Sather, who has never been talked out of anything and always does things his way, was listening to Dolan (who doesn't know a puck from a pancreas) who mandated that Sather bring in a ton of high priced talent and mediocre coaches? Sather now says, "See Jim, it didn't work, now let me do this my way"?
I actually think this makes the situation worse. We were told that Sather went to Dolan and told him that he was stepping down..not the other way around. If Dolan was going to fire him, I would think that this would have been the perfect time and becuase it didn't happen, I think Sather will get another year of being GM. Also, Renney told me a few weeks ago that he doesn't want to coach, so this will be a short term fix. There is no way that Renney is the coach next year in my opinion...if there is a next year. I expect ALL players with contracts expiring this year to be dealt, even if it's for a very late draft pick.

rw88 is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 04:10 PM
  #9
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,576
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by S_O_T_I
I actually think this makes the situation worse. We were told that Sather went to Dolan and told him that he was stepping down..not the other way around. If Dolan was going to fire him, I would think that this would have been the perfect time and becuase it didn't happen, I think Sather will get another year of being GM. Also, Renney told me a few weeks ago that he doesn't want to coach, so this will be a short term fix. There is no way that Renney is the coach next year in my opinion...if there is a next year. I expect ALL players with contracts expiring this year to be dealt, even if it's for a very late draft pick.
I agree. Dolan needs to wake up and recognize that the one real constant over the last three years has been Sather. It was not the players (as a lot of them have changed) and it it has not been the coaches (right Glen?) but it has been Sather.

As far as dealing vets whos contracts are up, I would try and move them all. If it it means being lowballed into late picks so be it. This team could use a full draft. The only player I would demand a huge return for is Leetch.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 04:10 PM
  #10
Larry Melnyk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Gloomsville, USA
Posts: 4,376
vCash: 500
I think there's two answers to this question.

1) My normal cynical answer is that Nothing has changed and nothing really will until Sather is gone entirely from the picture. And that His stepping down is merely a plan concocted by him and Dolan to temporarily distance himself from the wreckage and fans, place the blame elsewhere (the fans), and point to the WOlfpack that his plan for the future is suceeding, and then stick to their philosophy of puppet coaches, FAs (but younger guys due to the new CBA and soft cap??) and open-ass river hockey (Thanks JAS!) with very few trades.

2) My other less jaded answer is that even SATHER has seen the light this time and knows the only answer is to SELL SELL SELL and stock the future...And, at the same time, keep his position by doing a good job at it and, together with the WOlfpack success which he has little to do with, will convince Dolan that his vision for the future is on track..Ok, it's not totally un-jaded....

Larry Melnyk is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 04:19 PM
  #11
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 8,541
vCash: 500
As far as I'm concerned...

NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

We still have a Jackass in complete control of the Rangers. I don't understand why anyone thinks TLB has suddenly seen the light and will now go about building a real team the right way.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 04:29 PM
  #12
nyr7andcounting
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
I think we are forgetting that Sather the GM has been just as bad as Sather the coach. Just because he's not coaching anymore doesn't make him any better of a GM. He will make some good moves at the deadline, trading away some of these guys, but it's clear he's going to be in charge going into next season and that's not a good thing.

Also I think that the NHL should have Dolan removed as the top-dog in the Rangers organization. NHL needs a succesful team in NY, and there won't be one as long as Dolan is in charge. Where else in sports do you see a coach/GM that's been as bad as Sather tell his boss what he's going to do? He shoulda been fired a long time ago, but the minute Sather told Dolan he's stepping down Dolan shoulda said, ok you want to quit then your fired. Theres no way Sather should be allowed anywhere near this team, muchless decide what jobs hes going to take on without any interruption from Dolan. I bet if Sather decided over the summer to return as coach for next season Dolan would let him. What a jk.

nyr7andcounting is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 04:34 PM
  #13
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 8,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
I think we are forgetting that Sather the GM has been just as bad as Sather the coach. Just because he's not coaching anymore doesn't make him any better of a GM. He will make some good moves at the deadline, trading away some of these guys, but it's clear he's going to be in charge going into next season and that's not a good thing.

Also I think that the NHL should have Dolan removed as the top-dog in the Rangers organization. NHL needs a succesful team in NY, and there won't be one as long as Dolan is in charge. Where else in sports do you see a coach/GM that's been as bad as Sather tell his boss what he's going to do? He shoulda been fired a long time ago, but the minute Sather told Dolan he's stepping down Dolan shoulda said, ok you want to quit then your fired. Theres no way Sather should be allowed anywhere near this team, muchless decide what jobs hes going to take on without any interruption from Dolan. I bet if Sather decided over the summer to return as coach for next season Dolan would let him. What a jk.
Where do you think we are? The league can't tell an owner to sell a team. Not to mention that Cablevision owns the Garden as well.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 04:40 PM
  #14
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,473
vCash: 500
Yeah, really Larry..

but of course, trust your cynical side. It's a preemtive move on Sather's part to get him out from under the coaching microscope where his progress is measured daily by us, media and his boss, perhaps. Probably sold Jimmy on the work he has to do...that being the coach and GM caused him to miss a couple deals and he needs to focus on the deal side because he can turn this ship around real quick by moving old and bringing in young - what he's wanted to do from the get-go.

Guy should be fired from all posts realistically - which I don't think any of us believe that's going to happen. And unfortunately, do you really do it prior to March 9 at this point when deals do have to be made? I know he can screw up, but it is a tenuous time for dealing.

Fletch is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 04:41 PM
  #15
Janerixon
Registered User
 
Janerixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,732
vCash: 500
Nothing has changed, but i have to disagree with the comments that now would be the perfect time for dolan to fire sather, that time came and passed it was during the all star break. dolan may be a moron, but look at it this way, he hasnt been looking for a new gm, so if he fired sather now he would have to promote a coach (not a big deal) and make maloney the new gm for now... with this team needing to drop some deadweight that would just be asking for maloney to make a bad trade or two and hurt this team even more

look i want sather fired and i dont want him as the gm, but making maloney the gm now could be even worse because he could get ripped off or be afraid to make a big trade

this way dolan leaves sather as the gm, sather still thinks he is going to be coming back, hes makes hopefully 3 to 4 good trades for the future and as soon as the season is over he gets the axe

on a side note i have no problem w/ maloney being the gm, i just dont want to throw him to the wolves, sather has made some dumb trades but he hasnt been ripped off badly expect for maybe the dunham trade where we got dunham and they got zidlicky and kloucek, kloucek may have panned out but if we had zidlicky now leetch or poti would gone by now

Janerixon is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 04:58 PM
  #16
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 14,042
vCash: 500
No I don't

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
So we are to believe that all along Sather, who has never been talked out of anything and always does things his way, was listening to Dolan (who doesn't know a puck from a pancreas) who mandated that Sather bring in a ton of high priced talent and mediocre coaches? Sather now says, "See Jim, it didn't work, now let me do this my way"?
If anything, it's the new spin for Sather to buy himself more time. Jimmy believes anything Sather will sell him, so acting out of pride, states the team is going in a new direction.

jas is online now  
Old
02-25-2004, 05:39 PM
  #17
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
As far as I'm concerned...

NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

We still have a Jackass in complete control of the Rangers. I don't understand why anyone thinks TLB has suddenly seen the light and will now go about building a real team the right way.
Too true, Brook. Not one iota has changed. Dolan is obviously not going to fire him. If he was to do so, then how do you entrust Jackass to make trades to make this team better in the future?
I think that Jackass has somehow survived this yet again. With him not behind the bench, the "Fire Sather" chants may stop and if Lil' Jimmy is not hearing them, then he can continue to turn a blind eye to Jackass.
The only thing that can make Dolan see the light of day is $$$. If Sather costs him enough money, then he may do something.
But I digress, I truly believe that Jackass will STILL be the GM & President next year (whenever that is). He's like a cockroach. He somehow just survives year after year.

True Blue is offline  
Old
02-25-2004, 08:40 PM
  #18
nyr7andcounting
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
Where do you think we are? The league can't tell an owner to sell a team. Not to mention that Cablevision owns the Garden as well.
Yea no kidding I was being sarcastic. Point is that between Sather and Dolan nothing is being done right and I doubt the Rangers will ever go deep into the playoffs aslong as they are both around. Everything Sather has done has ben wrong and everything Dolan has done in reaction has been wrong.

nyr7andcounting is offline  
Old
02-26-2004, 12:40 AM
  #19
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 8,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Too true, Brook. Not one iota has changed. Dolan is obviously not going to fire him. If he was to do so, then how do you entrust Jackass to make trades to make this team better in the future?
I think that Jackass has somehow survived this yet again. With him not behind the bench, the "Fire Sather" chants may stop and if Lil' Jimmy is not hearing them, then he can continue to turn a blind eye to Jackass.
The only thing that can make Dolan see the light of day is $$$. If Sather costs him enough money, then he may do something.
But I digress, I truly believe that Jackass will STILL be the GM & President next year (whenever that is). He's like a cockroach. He somehow just survives year after year.
Come on TB, give the fans a little credit. If you believe the chanting is going to stop because Sather kicked himself upstairs, then I might believe the concept that you can't re-build in NY because the fans want to see big name superstars on the ice. I don't know what people can hear on a TV broadcast but fans at the Garden (or Gardens as the Jackass keeps calling it) are chanting a lot more than just Fire Sather. They are chanting 10%--a direct slap at Jimmy--We Suck and of course Refund!!! too. And much worse. I sit near the TV booth and there is no way JD and Sam and the other TV broadcasters don't know exactly what is being said. Of course, Dolan sits all the upstairs and on the other side of the arena so who knows what he he actually hears, but anywhere you are the experience of watching a game is torture and the fans are loudly voicing their frustations.

I seriously doubt this "move" will change the way fans are venting. In fact, I suspect the fans will smell blood and go for kill now. Whoever's going to any more games better be prepared to hear a lot more of the same. This has been years in the making and one small move is not going to satisfy anyone who's still bothering to go to games.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.