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Old
10-04-2008, 08:27 PM
  #101
nik jr
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what's going on?

the next 2 picks were here, but they didn't pick, and now they're gone....


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Old
10-04-2008, 08:38 PM
  #102
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Maybe they're doing incredibly long writeups for their picks and "are no longer active" in the minds of the boards?

... or maybe they just didn't get a PM.

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10-04-2008, 08:42 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I sent Hedberg a heads up PM to let him know that he was on deck and that Leopold Stotch was online about an hour ago, but I guess he couldn't wait online any more.

EDIT: Nevermind, it looks like he's still around. Guess Leopold disappeared though.
I will be here until 7:30

Hopefully Leopold shows up before that.

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Old
10-04-2008, 08:44 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by cottonking View Post
... or maybe they just didn't get a PM.
What are the chances I didn't send a PM right away? I usually end up sending PMs even when I'm not the last GM to have picked. He got a PM seconds after I posted my pick.

And if they are taking an extra 30 minutes to put together reasons for their pick then that is all for the better (it is their time window!); ideally everyone should put more than just a name, especially as we move out of the top no-brainer picks.

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Old
10-04-2008, 08:45 PM
  #105
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I'll be around if anyone needs to send a list to someone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
And if they are taking an extra 30 minutes to put together reasons for their pick then that is all for the better; ideally everyone should put more than just a name, especially as we move out of the top no-brainer picks.
I like pick descriptions, but it's also nice to keep the draft moving. I usually announce my pick then edit my post with my write up after if I haven't put anything together beforehand.

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10-04-2008, 08:50 PM
  #106
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I'll be available all night as well...

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Old
10-04-2008, 08:58 PM
  #107
VanIslander
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Perhaps Leopold Stotch thought something like "dang i thought for sure one of Hull, Beliveau, Shore would have dropped to me at #8... I'm gonna go grab a bite to eat and decide between one of two or three other guys..."

I know several GMs wanted a 24 hour clock and I supported their plea, though I personally believe we should start with a 12 hour clock because one's time window is one's own, and if a GM likes to weigh his options while on the clock (a fun mental thing to do actually) then so be it, it's his time window to use.

We are here to think and discuss the history of the game MORE THAN we are here to feed our draft junkie instincts. Don't hang around. Really. Come and go, talk and pick. Make this more about the players and about the history.

Let's not whine or try to rush picks.

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10-04-2008, 09:01 PM
  #108
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18th overall.
Indeed. You have some balls.

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Old
10-04-2008, 09:03 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I'll be around if anyone needs to send a list to someone.



I like pick descriptions, but it's also nice to keep the draft moving. I usually announce my pick then edit my post with my write up after if I haven't put anything together beforehand.
Exactly, pit. That's how raleh and I do things, too. Especially if the GM who picks after us is on-line. Don't make him wait more than he has to. (And when you can type 60 words a minute, you don't keep people waiting long).

In other news, Dickie Dunn has been hired to write Le Rocket's press releases.

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10-04-2008, 09:12 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Perhaps Leopold Stotch thought something like "dang i thought for sure one of Hull, Beliveau, Shore would have dropped to me at #8... I'm gonna go grab a bite to eat and decide between one of two or three other guys..."

We are here to think and discuss the history of the game MORE THAN we are here to feed our draft junkie instincts. Don't hang around. Really. Come and go, talk and pick. Make this more about the players and about the history.

Let's not whine or try to rush picks.
I agree, and I have no problem with GMs who need extra time to decide on a pick or work out a trade or whatever (and I'd rather someone take extra time to make sure they're doing the right thing than to make a pick for the sake of making one). But I also think that the draft and the discussion are the best when things move at a good pace, and there are certainly little things that can help that along.

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Old
10-04-2008, 09:12 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Perhaps Leopold Stotch thought something like "dang i thought for sure one of Hull, Beliveau, Shore would have dropped to me at #8... I'm gonna go grab a bite to eat and decide between one of two or three other guys..."
You are pretty close, I must admit, but just slightly off. The delay had more to do with who was around as opposed to was picked. I didn't expect those three guys you mentioned to be gone, although I wasn't necessarily coveting them. I had to account for a certain someone who unexpectedly fell this far(well, he did last draft, too, but I thought that was a one-time fluke).

Anyway, after much soul-searching, I've decided that I have to stick to the game plan. With our first selection, 8th overall, the Toronto Marlboros select the second-greatest defenseman of all-time, Doug Harvey.

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10-04-2008, 09:17 PM
  #112
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Victoria selects RW Maurice Richard.

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Old
10-04-2008, 09:23 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Victoria selects RW Maurice Richard.
about where he should go imo

It's about time the first great Quebec hero had an asterix next to his 50 goals in 50 games because it was during the war years (was 1944-45) when competition was less. Posters here put asterixes toward war year performances of some other players so should they with Richard, who went from 50 in the last year of the war to only 27 goals after the boys came back, though three times breaking the 40-goal plateau over the next 15 years. Of course he's one of the greatest goal scorers, and certainly his passion and determination makes him stand out over another sniper, but... he's no higher than #8-11 all-time in my books, blasephemy I know to the Quebecois.

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10-04-2008, 09:50 PM
  #114
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some think rocket richard is a top 5 pick right behind

gretzky orr howe n lemieux

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10-04-2008, 09:54 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
about where he should go imo

It's about time the first great Quebec hero had an asterix next to his 50 goals in 50 games because it was during the war years (was 1944-45) when competition was less. Posters here put asterixes toward war year performances of some other players so should they with Richard, who went from 50 in the last year of the war to only 27 goals after the boys came back, though three times breaking the 40-goal plateau over the next 15 years. Of course he's one of the greatest goal scorers, and certainly his passion and determination makes him stand out over another sniper, but... he's no higher than #8-11 all-time in my books, blasephemy I know to the Quebecois.
When he hit the 50/50 mark, the next-closest goal scorer had 32.

He led the league in goals five times, and he was second three other times. When he retired, nobody was even close to his 500 career goals. Forty goals in the late 40s and early 50s would be akin to at least 80 goals in the 80s.

I think his most impressive feat came in the playoffs. Eighty-two goals in 133 games. Playing his best years in the late 40s and early 50s - likely the toughest era to score in since the forward pass was introduced.

Richard at 9 is a great pick. We would have picked him at 5. Such an awesome goal scorer, a clutch goal scorer, and a ferocious competitor. In a Game 7 situation, he's the guy I'd want on my team more than any other player. Ever.

It's good to see, though, that the guys who should be picked at five to nine - Richard, Beliveau, Hull, Shore and Harvey - went from five to nine. (Not necessarily in that order). Now the fun begins.

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Old
10-04-2008, 09:56 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander View Post
some think rocket richard is a top 5 pick right behind

gretzky orr howe n lemieux
ATD-wise.... I'd have him 6th. Orr, Howe, Gretz, Lemieux, Harvey, Rocket. There's a STEEP drop-off at RW.

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10-04-2008, 10:07 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
I think his most impressive feat came in the playoffs. Eighty-two goals in 133 games. Playing his best years in the late 40s and early 50s - likely the toughest era to score in since the forward pass was introduced.
82 goals in 133 playoff games while Beliveau had three less, 79 goals in 162 playoff games, though during the Rocket & Beliveau years of 1955-60, Beliveau had 34 in 53 and the Rocket had 25 in 42. pnep adjusted goals and points by era, comparing players with their contemporaries, and while I don't know pnep's exact formula, the Rocket ended up behind Beliveau in playoff goals once you adjust for era. Maybe it was Richard's 18 goals in 15 playoff games during the war years that was discounted.

Six times did Richard have 6 goals or more in the postseason;
Seven times did Beliveau have 6 goals or more in the postseason.

The Rocket is the first French superstar and a flashy, exciting goal scorer. But he may be argued to be a tad (just a tad) overrated if many think him in the overall top-5 hockey players of all time. Certainly he's a top-5 goal scorer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD
There's a STEEP drop-off at RW.
Not yet imo, not yet. A drop off, but not so steep you couldn't BMX down it. But the killer big drop off is coming, that I agree.

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Old
10-04-2008, 10:22 PM
  #118
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Trade announcement.

The New Jersey Devils trade their 1st, 11th and 15th round picks to the Kenora Thistles for their 2nd, 8th and 9th round picks.

papershoes to confirm.

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Old
10-04-2008, 10:24 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
Trade announcement.

The New Jersey Devils trade their 1st, 11th and 15th round picks to the Kenora Thistles for their 2nd, 8th and 9th round picks.

papershoes to confirm.
kenora confirms the deal...

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Old
10-04-2008, 10:30 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
82 goals in 133 playoff games while Beliveau had three less, 79 goals in 162 playoff games, though during the Rocket & Beliveau years of 1955-60, Beliveau had 34 in 53 and the Rocket had 25 in 42. pnep adjusted goals and points by era, comparing players with their contemporaries, and while I don't know pnep's exact formula, the Rocket ended up behind Beliveau in playoff goals once you adjust for era. Maybe it was Richard's 18 goals in 15 playoff games during the war years that was discounted.

Six times did Richard have 6 goals or more in the postseason;
Seven times did Beliveau have 6 goals or more in the postseason.

The Rocket is the first French superstar and a flashy, exciting goal scorer. But he may be argued to be a tad (just a tad) overrated if many think him in the overall top-5 hockey players of all time. Certainly he's a top-5 goal scorer.


Not yet imo, not yet. A drop off, but not so steep you couldn't BMX down it. But the killer big drop off is coming, that I agree.
pnep's formula is nice and all, but it's irrelevant. Period. Adjusted for era numbers aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

The 56-60 comparison is a baloney, loaded argument. Guys in this thing are too smart to buy into an argument like that, so don't bring loaded arguments like that here. Richard was at the tail end of his career. Beliveau was just coming into his best year. What Richard did during some of those years in the ultra-tight 47-54 years is absolutely incredible, and I don't think Beliveau would have been able to do that. No other player, ever, could have had nine goals in 11 games in the 1951 playoffs.

Two of Beliveau's six-goal playoffs (honestly, is a six-goal playoff the best you can come up with?) came after expansion as well. It became much easier to put up points after 67, thanks to a) expansion, and b) the return of offence from the blue-line after Orr arrived. You might be impressed by a six-goal playoff in 1971. That's not that significant to me. The difference between post-expansion and the late 40s/early 50s, in terms of the ease of offence, is significant.

I'm not trying to diminish Beliveau. He's No. 6 on my list. After the big 4. And Richard. I think Beliveau's greater strength is as a playmaking centre than a goal scorer. I think he's the greatest leader ever. I'm more impressed that he once led the Habs in goals, assists, points and PIMs in a season than seven six-goal post-seasons.

Those are the things I'd be focusing on. If you're trying to argue who's the better goal scorer, especially in the playoffs, you're going to fight a losing battle.

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Old
10-04-2008, 10:32 PM
  #121
VanIslander
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...irrelevant.... baloney, ... the best you can come up with?
I'm getting a lot of attitude these days from GBC and it's all negative: living with FI#3?

The post-expansion effect I hadn't considered. Thanks for reminding me of that.

I was trying to show that Richard wasn't so head-and-shoulders over all others in terms of playoff goal scoring. His legend is a bit out of whack with the facts. No comment about the war years? Anyways...

Both MXD and GBC puts Richard ahead of Hull, Beliveau and Shore. Fine. Many others around here don't. It certainly seems like 5th through 9th overall is open to reasonable disagreement by intelligent knowledgeable folk. No need to assault character.

I still haven't heard anything that would put Richard any higher than 8th overall in my books. Just stated why I think so. Wasn't trying to compel everybody to have to think likewise.

G'day.


Last edited by VanIslander: 10-04-2008 at 10:42 PM.
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Old
10-04-2008, 10:34 PM
  #122
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i'm getting a lot of attitude these days from GBC and it's all negative: living with FI#3?
If you came up with relevant arguments, instead of citing Richard's goal-scoring totals from the final five years, or six-goal playoffs, I wouldn't hold you accountable for your comments.

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10-04-2008, 10:52 PM
  #123
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Completely irrevelant in the discussion, but I wanna post my list from 1 to 9

Bobby Orr
Gordie Howe
Wayne Gretzky
Mario Lemieux
Jean Béliveau
Maurice Richard
Bobby Hull
Doug Harvey
Eddie Shore

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Old
10-04-2008, 10:55 PM
  #124
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I tried to put together a mock first round before the draft started to get an idea of which players may be available at my pick (originally 27th). After the first four, I've failed miserably thus far.

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Old
10-04-2008, 11:34 PM
  #125
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I tried to put together a mock first round before the draft started to get an idea of which players may be available at my pick (originally 27th). After the first four, I've failed miserably thus far.
Hey it's funny you talk about that, as I exactly done the same thing for the first round!

That's I had for now:

1) Bobby Orr
2) Wayne Gretzky
3) Gordie Howe
4) Mario Lemieux (Had inside source on this one though)
5) Doug Harvey (at least I was in the right direction)
6) Bobby Hull (I knew he wouldn't take a Habs)
7) Jean Beliveau (I remembered his love for Beliveau, rightfully so)
8) Maurice Richard
9) Eddie Shore

... 6 on 9. Not bad at all. The next pick ... Can't tell

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