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NHL's love affair with Dany Heatley

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Old
02-26-2004, 04:03 PM
  #51
TelperiŽn
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Originally Posted by Absolut
Vlad and Sundried TOmato - great, classic posts. Both of you hit the nail on the head.
You beat me to it.

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02-26-2004, 04:20 PM
  #52
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Well, after the accident, as far as I was concerned, Heatley wasn't going to play at all this season. Other people said his injuries and trauma were career-threatening! I'm not saying Heatley is a hero, but I think it took courage to come back before the season's over. Obviously not more than returning from cancer like Saku Koivu did, but knowing how overwhelming the tragedy is inside Heatley (more overwhelming than anyone), he could have sit out the season to fully recover and get his head back in the game, but he came back nearly halfway through. Courageous IMO.

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02-26-2004, 06:05 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DallasStars2003
Well, after the accident, as far as I was concerned, Heatley wasn't going to play at all this season. Other people said his injuries and trauma were career-threatening! I'm not saying Heatley is a hero, but I think it took courage to come back before the season's over. Obviously not more than returning from cancer like Saku Koivu did, but knowing how overwhelming the tragedy is inside Heatley (more overwhelming than anyone), he could have sit out the season to fully recover and get his head back in the game, but he came back nearly halfway through. Courageous IMO.
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02-26-2004, 06:30 PM
  #54
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This is a great conversation. I'm a journalism major, so this is especially of interest to me.

It's pretty easy to understand why they would call him a "hero." Hell, they call coming back from a two-goal deficit in the playoffs "courageous." And I hate that. I hate when they become PR machines rather than journalists.

What Dany Heatley did was self-inflicted. If I did the same thing, then went to my $8/hour job, I'd be, at best, called "troubled." At most, I'd be called reckless, or a murderer.

Now, Dan Snyder...if he somehow survived, but got badly injured, worked his ass off to come back -- he might be a hero, depending on the circumstances of the injury and of the crash.

Since when is "courage" owning up to what you did? That's all Heatley's doing. Just on a bigger stage, because he's a bigger person.

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02-26-2004, 07:44 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by balddog66
sadly you didn't know Snyder, he truely was a unique caring individual.
I would feel much more comfortable with Heatley and gain some respect back for him should he had dedicated his career or a future trophy to Snyder...if Heatley ever wins a cup, I would feel at peace if he looked up and said this is for you Snydes...
So I didn't know him. That is irrelevant. There are hundreds and thousands of people killed in car accidents every year. No doubt many are wonderful people too. Where is the hype? Where is the love? I don't know most of them either. If the person driving was Wardell's sectretary and the passenger was his janitor, would this even be news? I don't know them either. I'm not disrespecting Snyder just pointing out the facts.

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02-26-2004, 07:55 PM
  #56
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I agree, and the fact that he is a superstar didn't hurt either. If Drake Berehowsky, or Tom Fitzgerald had done the same, I think things would have turned out very differently.
They wouldn't be treated like criminals, but nobody would care period. If Chris Tamer was the driver, and Snyder died, his death would have been simply mentioned. The only reason this story was big was because of Heatley. if your telling me I'm wrong, I'll simply point to Steve Chiasson to prove I'm right.

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02-26-2004, 08:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
They wouldn't be treated like criminals, but nobody would care period. If Chris Tamer was the driver, and Snyder died, his death would have been simply mentioned. The only reason this story was big was because of Heatley. if your telling me I'm wrong, I'll simply point to Steve Chiasson to prove I'm right.
What if had been Snyder driving and he killed Heatley? I have a feeling there'd be a lot of pissed off Atlanta fans, and very little of the same forgiveness we've seen given to Heatley. But maybe I'm just being cynical.

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02-26-2004, 08:52 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by mmbt
What if had been Snyder driving and he killed Heatley? I have a feeling there'd be a lot of pissed off Atlanta fans, and very little of the same forgiveness we've seen given to Heatley. But maybe I'm just being cynical.
No your not just being cynnical. That's exactly how it would have been, and we all know that.

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02-26-2004, 09:54 PM
  #59
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt
What if had been Snyder driving and he killed Heatley? I have a feeling there'd be a lot of pissed off Atlanta fans, and very little of the same forgiveness we've seen given to Heatley. But maybe I'm just being cynical.
You're cynical AND right :p

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02-26-2004, 10:18 PM
  #60
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Yeah, probably so. And that leads to another thing that bothers me about this ... Heatley seems to be getting more sympathy because he killed his buddy and is thus racked with guilt. But doesn't that suggest that if he'd killed some total stranger he'd be judged more harshly? In effect, it's like saying that Snyder's life isn't worth as much as anyone else's.

In the big scheme of things, if all that happens to Heatley is that he's burdened with guilt, I'd say he's still gotten off light... after all, the point is that another young man will never get to feel anything again. Heatley can dedicate whatever awards he wins to Snyder if it makes him feel better, and I'm sure it'd make a great feel-good story for ESPN if he raises the Cup and says, "This one's for you, buddy!" but it won't change the fact that he still has the opportunity to enjoy life while Snyder does not.

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02-26-2004, 10:27 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by mmbt
In the big scheme of things, if all that happens to Heatley is that he's burdened with guilt, I'd say he's still gotten off light...
Well, that's your opinion. Ever read Crime and Punishment? Hehe, that sounds pretentious I know but it's a good study of what Guilt can do to someone. It can be pretty hard to deal with as I'm sure lots of people here can attest to. I'm not saying he should be treated like a hero (see above) but just that it was an accident. A stupid reckless accident, but an accident nonetheless. If ESPN wants to make a circus out of it, don't blame Dany. Look at Tyson and *****. That was (arguably) a premeditated crime by him. He gets out of jail...and they throw a *********n parade for him.
It was an accident and it happens. Sad yes; unique no.


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Old
02-26-2004, 10:32 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt
Yeah, probably so. And that leads to another thing that bothers me about this ... Heatley seems to be getting more sympathy because he killed his buddy and is thus racked with guilt. But doesn't that suggest that if he'd killed some total stranger he'd be judged more harshly? In effect, it's like saying that Snyder's life isn't worth as much as anyone else's.
Difficult to say. One thing is certain, at this speed, he could have killed others, not just a passenger. I think part of the sympathy in those kind of incidents is when a passenger dies. If he had run down some guy or gal on the road, it would be a different tune. Speeding like that is not very different from firing a gun blindly.

Also, it is undeniable that Snyder's parents and their absolutely UNBELIEVABLE generosity and loving nature have helped Heatley look much better. He'd probably be judged more harshly if the press could have gotten anything else but good, peaceful, calm and classy words from the Snyders.

These people, the whole family... they absolutely rock. If anybody had any doubt about Dan Snyder's character, I think they erased them. Those are strong, dedicated people... I'm sure they raised amazing kids, Dan being one of them.

I don't know which poster said it on this thread but he is right: they are the real heroes of this story.

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Old
02-26-2004, 10:41 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by chicpea
Well, that's your opinion. Ever read Crime and Punishment? Guilt can be pretty hard to deal with as I'm sure lots of people here can attest to.
I'm not saying it's a walk in the park, but it sure beats being dead or losing a son. At least Heatley can do things to help relieve the guilt, like say dedicating his life to helping others as penance. Snyder and his family don't have such options.

I mean geez, if feeling guilty is punishment enough, then there's a whole slew of people that ought to be let out of prison right now.

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02-26-2004, 10:54 PM
  #64
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I'm not saying it's a walk in the park, but it sure beats being dead or losing a son.
I totally agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt
there's a whole slew of people that ought to be let out of prison right now.
Again, I totally agree.

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Old
02-26-2004, 11:09 PM
  #65
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I'd still feel the same: a kid. He screwed up. Forgive, but don't forget Snyder. He's not a "hero;" he's just a person.

I don't really get this legal aspect. Maybe it's different here but I've had several friends who died in speeding accidents and none of the drivers have gone to jail unless drunk. I could be wrong though. I never though I'd be happy to talk to a lawyer...
I agree. I've had quite a few people in my town get off the hook for manslaughter in much worse circumstances than Heatley's accident. Sometimes, celebs. do get off the hook, and sometimes they didn't. Honestly, if I killed my best friend in a similar accident, I am quite certain that her family would react in an almost identical manner as the Snyders (not underscoring the fortitude the Snyder family has.....just indicating that this family has it as well), and I honestly doubt I would face anything close to 20+ years. Maybe a short sentence, if that, but people have to realize that the law officials look at your past record and where you are at in life. How much good can Dany do for the world locked in prison, when even the victim's parents have forgiven him and moved on??? How much good can Dany do for the world sharing his message, doing community service, etc.? I'm not saying I agree with how the system works, but that is how it works........love it or hate it.

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02-27-2004, 12:38 AM
  #66
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Saying someone has character and someone is a hero are not the same thing.
End the tirade there.

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02-27-2004, 01:02 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt
What if had been Snyder driving and he killed Heatley? I have a feeling there'd be a lot of pissed off Atlanta fans, and very little of the same forgiveness we've seen given to Heatley. But maybe I'm just being cynical.
You're probably right. But therin lies the problem, one of perception on our parts.

A man would be dead, and the fans and media would focus on the fact a bright young star had been take away from the league. The loss of life would be seen as tragic, sure. But that aforementioned element would be harped on, and that in my opinion is horribly wrong. We can't grieve for every ill in the world, but at least we could treat the people involved with respect should they deserve it.

All of us are at least a bit cynical, as you can see.

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Old
02-27-2004, 08:58 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Also, it is undeniable that Snyder's parents and their absolutely UNBELIEVABLE generosity and loving nature have helped Heatley look much better.
I am in an absolute minority here... But I have a problem with the Snyders stance. I feel they helped Heatley get away with a crime. Dany could have EASILY hurt or killed a pedestrian. Would we feel the same about their generosity if Heatley's car crashed into a 5 year old girl?

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02-27-2004, 12:29 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Absolut
I am in an absolute minority here... But I have a problem with the Snyders stance. I feel they helped Heatley get away with a crime. Dany could have EASILY hurt or killed a pedestrian. Would we feel the same about their generosity if Heatley's car crashed into a 5 year old girl?
This is my biggest issue with how Heatley is being handled by the NHL, and the media.

Heatley did something that led to horrific consequences. It could have been a lot worse: he could have injured other people. A few months later, he is a hero... The Snyders played a big role in setting the tone... I understand that for Dan's family forgiveness was healing, and necessary. But as a guy who'd be in jail right now had he done what Heatley did, I don't feel very good about the free pass (and the glorification) the guy is getting.

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02-27-2004, 12:40 PM
  #70
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For anyone who isn't a menonite, it's hard to understand the point of view the Snyder family took.
Again, it all depends on point of view, but Snyder is much more well known than "Mr. Wardells" secretary, but he's also only well known in the hockey world...ask my grandmother, she wouldn't even know who he was regardless of press coverage on Heatley.

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02-27-2004, 12:56 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolut
I am in an absolute minority here... But I have a problem with the Snyders stance. I feel they helped Heatley get away with a crime. Dany could have EASILY hurt or killed a pedestrian. Would we feel the same about their generosity if Heatley's car crashed into a 5 year old girl?
In a cold, rational way, I feel a little bit like you.

But (I know this may sound whacky, but I am not even religious) I think it is a lesson in spiritual stength and loyalty. I think they are greatly helping their own recovery and that of Dany. Does he deserve it? I feel such a conversation would probably create a sub-thread of dozens of page so I won't go there :p

For themselves, I think this was very important and they've exuded unbelievable class and a lack of resentment (whether we it this was misguided or not) we can all draw inspiration from.

Heck, I've been to war with people for much less than that. How the hell do they keep such serenity and peace throughout events of that nature when I go berzerk over things that, proportinally, are just ridiculous? I think that in itself is a lesson.

I feel the better person is the one that can keep such an attitude. For them, this is beyond the law and everything. Your point of view is valid. It's in fact undeniable truth. But for them, right now, this is the thing to do and they'll be better persons because of this. More at peace with themselves. It goes beyond the practical and material. They also know Dany Heatley much better than you or I so are probably in a better position to judge whether or not to go to bat for him.

This is obviously not a black or white issue. I am not happy that Heatley is getting away with this at all. I ust hope those people know what they are doing and that Heatley will have had the lesson of his life and will start caring about others and wisen-up. But as they are people with a lot of character, I trust that they were able to assess this their own way.

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02-27-2004, 01:06 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balddog66
For anyone who isn't a menonite, it's hard to understand the point of view the Snyder family took.
Again, it all depends on point of view, but Snyder is much more well known than "Mr. Wardells" secretary, but he's also only well known in the hockey world...ask my grandmother, she wouldn't even know who he was regardless of press coverage on Heatley.
Maybe they believe he was a willing passenger in the vehicle and was just as responsible for it going fast as Heatley was. Peer pressure has led many a young man to do really stupid, stupid stuff. I know when I've done street racing in the past, my passenger(s) weren't exactly unwilling participants. Big difference between that and being a innocent bystander in another car or a pedestrian.

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02-27-2004, 01:07 PM
  #73
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Good Post again, Vlad.
As someone else noted above, what the Snyder's have done is truly great, but I honestly believe in all sincerity that were any of my friends to kill me in an accident, my parents would do the same. In fact, maybe I'm being naive (but like I've said, I've gone through this) but I can't think of anyone of my friends' parents screaming for jail time had I or any of my friends done the same. Most, I think, would do as the Snyders have done. Dany was a friend of their son's. They, and I (and I'm sure many others) do not see the point of jail time. Yes jail *punishes* - but how does jail either rectify a given situation like this one, or make a person better? Perhaps that's a bit of a loaded question for this thread, but I honestly do not see jail as some sort of panacea for every one of society's ills. In some situations jail is absolutely necessary I agree - I just think that accidents are simply that. Why ruin two lives when one is already lost? Is Heatley a future threat to society? unlikely. After 15 years of hard time would he be - maybe. Many argue that rates of recidivism increase proportionately with the length of a sentence. Again, not trying to piss anyone off, just my opinion.

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02-27-2004, 01:10 PM
  #74
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Another Reason Why ESPN Sucks

To characterize Heatley as any sort of "hero" or "great character guy" in the NHL is nothing more than media grandstanding. Guys like Barry Melrose and John Butchigross say stuff like this all the time to make themselves sound like experts about the players on a personal level. They're not. It's just so hokey the way they do it, you'd think they'd have caught a clue by now. Go do some Bud Light commercials guys, and please spare us your social commentaries!

There is a difference between "Character" and "Resilience". Dany Heatley has shown great resilience in his comeback. Resilience is certainly part of what gives a person "character", but it's not enough by itself.

Only time will tell what kind of character this kid (Yes, KID) will make himself into. He's on his way back to respectability IMO, but the jury is still out, as it would be with any other 20-something just getting his feet wet in the real world.

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02-27-2004, 01:13 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
Is Heatley a future threat to society? unlikely. After 15 years of hard time would he be - maybe. Many argue that rates of recidivism increase proportionately with the length of a sentence. Again, not trying to piss anyone off, just my opinion.
I agree with you on most counts. What bothers me is that Heatley basically got away with it... and to make things worse, he is being praised and glorified by the NHL.

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