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850 Billion Bailout (economics, not politics)

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Old
10-08-2008, 07:35 PM
  #76
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Aparently AIG has blown threw it's 1st line of tax payer credit and is seeking an additional. (cited from NPR) & the CEO or most recent CEO conviently bowed-out of his congresional hearing yesterday, I want the SOB hulled infront of the tax payers and explain 1) why he took said lavish trip, 2) why he needs yet more money.

As whorable as it would be for the short turn (& the short term is v. bad) I almost say let them go under ala Lehman.

BTW Keep your eyes open, I'm looking for a latex Bernakie or Paulson mask to go with my Lehman Brothers T-Shirt I just bought for Halloween.

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10-09-2008, 05:12 PM
  #77
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lol...can you guys believe AIG was actually going to do it AGAIN?! Only after severe public outcry did they decide to cancel what would've been their second extravagant trip to a resort within a month after being bailed out.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar...tConf1009.html

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10-09-2008, 08:56 PM
  #78
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Not sure there are enough expletives in the English language at the moment. I have lost half of my 401K.

& Again I bang my head b/c this "bail-out" that the "experts" had been calling for for the past 12 months is proving to be too late.

Also and while were staying unpolitical, I feel I can say Fed Chairman Ben Bernakie is a complete fool and along with Chris Cox should be fired tomorrow. This whole time Bernakie was scared about inflation, when in reality were in a tremendous period of deflation. ugh

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10-10-2008, 01:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post


Not sure there are enough expletives in the English language at the moment. I have lost half of my 401K.

& Again I bang my head b/c this "bail-out" that the "experts" had been calling for for the past 12 months is proving to be too late.

Also and while were staying unpolitical, I feel I can say Fed Chairman Ben Bernakie is a complete fool and along with Chris Cox should be fired tomorrow. This whole time Bernakie was scared about inflation, when in reality were in a tremendous period of deflation. ugh
I'm sure you already know but keep in mind that until you actually cash out your 401k, you haven't lost anything. In all actuality, if you can stomach these tough times in about 10 years your 401k will have benefited greatly from them.

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10-10-2008, 02:54 PM
  #80
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I'm sure you already know but keep in mind that until you actually cash out your 401k, you haven't lost anything. In all actuality, if you can stomach these tough times in about 10 years your 401k will have benefited greatly from them.
yes and no, What happens is that now it will likely take 5-6 years to recoup these losses, thus I lost 5-6 years of appreciation in my retirement account. At this point it is better served left alone. On the bright side, I had been pooling some cash to dump directly into a couple ETFs and frankly now would be a great time (if I have the stomach) to buy up.

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10-10-2008, 03:54 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
yes and no, What happens is that now it will likely take 5-6 years to recoup these losses, thus I lost 5-6 years of appreciation in my retirement account. At this point it is better served left alone. On the bright side, I had been pooling some cash to dump directly into a couple ETFs and frankly now would be a great time (if I have the stomach) to buy up.
Down 39% year-to-date on my 401k

Along with you on the bright side, have a lot of cash sitting idle also. Have a lot more research to do before I'm ready to start buying back into the market tho.

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10-11-2008, 03:21 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
yes and no, What happens is that now it will likely take 5-6 years to recoup these losses, thus I lost 5-6 years of appreciation in my retirement account. At this point it is better served left alone. On the bright side, I had been pooling some cash to dump directly into a couple ETFs and frankly now would be a great time (if I have the stomach) to buy up.
Sorry I should've been more specific. I assume like most people you contribute a portion of each check to your 401k. If that is the case, it's going to be a good thing 10 years down the road because you can buy so much more for so little right now. I read somewhere that a gallon of gas cost more than 1 share of Ford stock. Well don't be surprised if 10 years from now people are going to kicking themselves for not buying at the time. btw...I'm just using Ford as an example, my point is that it's a buyers market if you've got the cash!

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10-11-2008, 02:13 PM
  #83
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There was a funny segment on NPR yesterday afternoon; where one of their Wall Street reporters has this thesis; he calls it his Relative Capitulation Index. He suggests that it never fails, during major market downturns, whenever his relatives come out of the wood work asking what they should do with their retirement accounts it’s usually indicative the market has hit bottom. I guess this week he had relatives that he hasn’t spoken too in 5 years called this week at her brokers office asking if she should liquidate. Perhaps were at a bottom, we will probably skim along here for some time though.

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11-04-2008, 02:47 PM
  #84
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Why not? Wooden arrows? Rum? Race tracks? What the **** does that have to do with an economic bailout. These people absolutely do not have yours or my best interests in mind. The best we can hope for is that their best interest just happens to affect us in a positive way.


Don't forget Giffords. One positive thing about this bailout passing, it's going to make voting very easy next month.
lol...on my way to the polls but had to check this thread real quick to make sure I got things straight!

Thanks for the political assistance HF!

Shaddig, Pastor, Mitchell, Giffords

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11-04-2008, 02:54 PM
  #85
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I didn't vote for anyone who had anything to do with the bailout package.

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11-04-2008, 04:46 PM
  #86
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I didn't vote for anyone who had anything to do with the bailout package.
So that would mean you voted for Barr, McKinley or Nader?

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11-04-2008, 04:48 PM
  #87
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lol...on my way to the polls but had to check this thread real quick to make sure I got things straight!

Thanks for the political assistance HF!

Shaddig, Pastor, Mitchell, Giffords
See I did vote for Pator, Obvs on the other side of this debate; but I emailed him telling him if he didn't change his vote way back when that I would vote against him. He listened to me. But his challenger is really a no body.

On the note if the "Bail-Out" While it's early on it does appear to be working. Credit has thawed a little, their just beginning the TARP (Treasury Asset Recovery Programe) Cash infusions have begun to make Banks solvent again (Not thrilled about reported Bank Consolidation) While it's very early I am encourage. Most pundents have taken "The Great Depression II" off the table.

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11-04-2008, 07:59 PM
  #88
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So that would mean you voted for Barr, McKinley or Nader?
I waffled between Barr and Baldwin actually.

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11-04-2008, 08:16 PM
  #89
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Side note: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-bail-out.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Mail
Goldman Sachs is on course to pay its top City bankers multimillion-pound bonuses - despite asking the U.S. government for an emergency bail-out.

The struggling Wall Street bank has set aside 7billion for salaries and 2008 year-end bonuses, it emerged yesterday.

Each of the firm's 443 partners is on course to pocket an average Christmas bonus of more than 3million.

The size of the pay pool comfortably dwarfs the 6.1billion lifeline which the U.S. government is throwing to Goldman as part of its 430billion bail-out.

http://industry.bnet.com/financial-s...ards-collapse/
Quote:
Despite a $143 billion federal rescue effort, American International Group seems to be tottering towards collapse. The giant insurer is quickly running through Federal Reserve lending and key executives are jumping ship, leaving some experts to wonder if bankruptcy might have been a better alternative...
Burning so much money so fast has raised suspicions that AIG had already incurred billions of dollars in losses when the federal government extended it the $85 billion emergency line of credit. According to media accounts, AIG has not provided details of how it has spent the money.

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11-04-2008, 08:25 PM
  #90
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AIG & other insurers are currently not a part of the bail out, their infusion came in teh form of loans from the Fed (I beleive). Look frankly the fact that AIG can't seem to find solvency 2 mo into this, demonstrates to me that perhaps we should simply let it fail. Or it needs to cancel all it's outstanding CDO and take the rating hit. I'm still P.O.ed about the whole thing and beleive me people are going to be halled into congress/ court. But it was a necessary evil. Were not nearly out of the woods, but things look much better than they did 2 months ago.

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11-04-2008, 08:43 PM
  #91
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We loaned a company 85 Billion dollars when they had no way to pay it back. That's graft on a stunning scale.
I'm even more stunned that people are still on the 'necessary evil' speech.

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11-04-2008, 08:56 PM
  #92
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We loaned a company 85 Billion dollars when they had no way to pay it back. That's graft on a stunning scale.
I'm even more stunned that people are still on the 'necessary evil' speech.
well I guess only time will tell if it was a good move and wether we get paid back.

I just shake my head at AIG and am flabergasted how poorly a publicly traded company can perform.

Curious Del are you also against any further infusions into the US Automakers? Perhaps thats something you and I could agree on. Especialy not to aid in a merger of 2 of them. It's my opinion while there our thousands of people who's livelyhood hindges on Detroit; they have been producing an inferior product for decades. Unlike the Banking sector were most everyone screwed up, with Cars it's mostly isolated to the Big 3.

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11-04-2008, 09:34 PM
  #93
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Yes, I'm against taxpayers money going to that too. But not you've let the camel's nose under the tent flap and everybody wants a hand out. You know so the CEOs can get their bonuses.

I'd hedge on money to airlines or Amtrak. That's about it. It would depend on how much money to whom and why.

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11-04-2008, 09:50 PM
  #94
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..But not you've let the camel's nose under the tent flap and everybody wants a hand out.



what is this saying? Never heard it before.

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11-04-2008, 10:39 PM
  #95
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel%27s_nose

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11-05-2008, 01:43 AM
  #96
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On the note if the "Bail-Out" While it's early on it does appear to be working. Credit has thawed a little, their just beginning the TARP (Treasury Asset Recovery Programe) Cash infusions have begun to make Banks solvent again (Not thrilled about reported Bank Consolidation) While it's very early I am encourage. Most pundents have taken "The Great Depression II" off the table.
The bailout may be masking the symptoms better but it's not fixing anything! This bubble has to burst and that is all there is to it. The longer that is delayed the longer true recovery will be delayed.

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11-06-2008, 09:41 PM
  #97
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I think its clear the bubble burst and the correction is back to pre 03 levels. I just come back to both the agonizing Great Depresion and the Lost Decade in Japan. The overwhelming criticism of both was that the authoritys did absolutly nothing untill 3plus years into both crisis. I for one can't afford that time frame. We can't tollerate double didget unemployment numbers. Is it not conceivable that the "free market" can't fix itself? Atleast in a reasonable time frame.

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11-07-2008, 04:23 PM
  #98
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The bailout may be masking the symptoms better but it's not fixing anything!
But Obama is promising another bail out, errr "Stimulus" package. I'm sure everything will be fine; they only have the public's best interests in mind.

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11-07-2008, 06:04 PM
  #99
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http://www.azcentral.com/business/ne...loan07-ON.html

see were getting paid back and did you know that AIG is being charged 11.5%, Uncle Sam isn't as stupid as we think. well....

just saying It's not like were handing over blank checks here; we are in this instance and so far every other yet so far, were being repaid & @ 11.5% not bad IMO.

I know ya'll and I will never agree on this and I do want to stress that I am by no means a "flaming" liberal quite frankly I am a centrist, but perhaps from were I sit in what I do for a living; I don't not believe that this Market can fix itself in a reasonable and minimal painful time frame. I for one am grateful that their throwing every tool they possible can at this. In conjunction I want to see some show trails and some public hangings here in the near future.

I don't know why your so down on Obama del? I recognize you may be a life long player for the Red Team, but Obama (unlike er our current administration) has surrounded himself with a dozen or so of the most intelligent people on the subject of the economy:

The Bob's (Rubben and Reich) Summers, Volker, Buffet, Geithner.
two former Treasury Secretaries, a former SEC Chairman, a current Head of the NY Fed and a Reall Really Rich Guy that knows more about business than everyone in the State of Arizona combined.

Rather have these folks than another "crony" of a President.

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11-08-2008, 12:39 AM
  #100
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I tend to be more on the Republican side of the fence and I was for the bailout. I agree with you that the market would likely have corrected itself eventually, but at what expense. Being somewhat Conversative, I normally don't like government involvement in the free market, but I think something had to be done.

I'm encouraged by some of the people Obama is considering for posts in his cabinet. The fact that he is looking to keep Gates as defense secretary and some other Republicans for positions hopefully means he truly wants to unite both sides and turn the country around and not just practice a partisan agenda.

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