HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Max Pac To Start Year in Hamilton

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-01-2008, 12:25 PM
  #326
Lone Rogue
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
1) Lats was the #1 forward in hits last year. 134 hits in 2007/2008. And you're sitting here trying to tell us he never hits anything? Give me a ****in break.
Once again, 134 hits playing only 8 minutes a game.

Lone Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:25 PM
  #327
Lord Horse
Next Day's News
 
Lord Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Full City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,400
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfinhabsclothing View Post
OK, I have no desire to go back and read 11 pages.

(snip)

Latendresse - improved foot speed or not, he contributes nothing - he needs to go to Hamilton
"I don't really want to be part of the discussion, I just want to have *my* say and who cares what anyone else thinks?"

Hey - now that there's even more moderation on this board (heh that phrase just seems so empty) -

Can we please get infractions handed out for people call for Latendresse to be sent down to Hamilton immediately?

I don't know how many times we have to remind poeple of the waiver rules but maybe it should be a sticky. There's a never-ending deluge of posters with a handful of comments who don't know the deal about sending people down to the 'Dogs.

Or, perhaps Lord Chezz might chime in on this .....?

(and while I'm on the subject how was Chezz passed over?!)

I thought Max Pac finally started to show his potential in the last game. Very impressed with his play both with the puck and away from it. He's got a year in the A to develop his stamina for the long NHL schedule, but I can see him breaking in next year.

Vets will be traded to make room - that's how Detroit does it year in and year out.

Lord Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:26 PM
  #328
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24,525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfinhabsclothing View Post
1.) Who does he hit? I see him hitting the boards alot, after he gets there a few seconds after the puck carrier left

2.) He's scored 16 goals - mostly when carried by Koivu. The give him more minutes and he'll get more goals arguement holds no water. Why? Because...

3.) He's a massive defensive liability and can't be given quality minutes against top line opponents. Gainey and Carbonneau clearly see that which is why he's never discussed, except by his fans, as a candidate for the top 2 lines. I don't know if you go to the games or just watch on TV, but it's not the same. He CONTINUALLY loses his men. His hockey sense is terrible.

If Gui could be Eric Daze, and score 40-50 goals despite his shortcomings, fine, but he's not even that good and likely will never score even 30. I seriously see him gone in 1-2 years because the kids behind him have far better hockey sense and overall game. For now he's lucky he's big, has a bit of a scoring touch, and is a hometown boy (with the right kind of name).
Your post makes 0 sense.
So, he's scored 16goals mostly carried by Koivu?..
First of all..So what??
Second of all..Not true. Koivu assisted 6times on Latendresse's goals. That's 37.5% of his goals, which is far from the majority.

Then you say if he'd have regular top line minutes he'd costs us more goals..That is only your speculation, don't say it like its a fact.
FACT IS..the kid averaged around 12min/GP and has put up 27Pts/73GP, he did that while playing very little PP time which is where most players get half their pts. So, Give him more minutes on PP per game and chances are he'll get a lot more points.
This also counters the fact that he'll be a defensive liability seeing as we'd be on the PP.

You can hate him all you want, but be rational.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:31 PM
  #329
jcpenny
Registered User
 
jcpenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montrťal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Once again, 134 hits playing only 8 minutes a game.
Wow...People really to stop the hate and get on board with this kid. Just that stat says a lot.

jcpenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:33 PM
  #330
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24,525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
Ya I've been watching them as closely as I can, haven't listened to any, but I've caught all the televised ones.

I'm not sure what you consider ripping it up, but this is his first goal of the preseason so obviously he was not ripping it up that much.

The kid had an awesome game last night, I can't wait to seem him called up later this year, but the Latendresse bashers just need to shut it, we have enough room for both these guys.
Ill be the first to say he's going to start in AHL. But yea, he might not have scored a bunch. But he's very effective for a youngster, on D like on O. He's always creating something when he's on the ice, that's what I meant in terms of ripping it up.

His numbers don't come close to portraying the way he's been playing this training camp.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:38 PM
  #331
Russeltown
Registered User
 
Russeltown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,524
vCash: 500
I usually don't read these threads for various reasons. It is circular, we all know what is going to happen, there is always going to be a scapegoat on that team, the arguments are always the same.

Latendresse enters his 3rd year in the NHL and will be a good player for the Habs. Some people just don't like him, no obvious reasons why (other than the Post #15 Rule).
Chris Higgins has to step to the next level in order to become the player he wants to be.
Max Pacioretty is having an exceptional camp and there are no reasons to rush him. I am confident that he will play 30 to 40 games with the Habs this year, but if it's to be on a 4th line, I'd rather see him play 20 minutes with first line duties in the minors.

/thread.

Russeltown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:45 PM
  #332
Lone Rogue
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcpenny View Post
Wow...People really to stop the hate and get on board with this kid. Just that stat says a lot.
I'm incorrect actually, now that I look it up, but not by much.

In 73 games, Latendresse spent 12:15 on average each game. That's an average. To compare, Sergei Kostitsyn played 52 games, for an average ice time of 14:21. Maxim Lapierre played 53 games and averaged 13:09. Only Tom Kostopolous (67 games, 11:16) and Mathieu Dandenault (61 games, 11:08) played over 50 games and had less ice time on average than Gui.

Again, remember that. Now factor in that Gui had more hits than any other forward on the team (134), was tied for 4th on the team in even strength goals (14), was tied for third with game winning goals (3, tied with quite a few players, but still, same number as Koivu) and his Goals per game average was a .22, which tied him with Koivu and put him behind only Alex Kovalev, Tomas Plekanec, Andrei Kostitsyn and Christopher Higgins.

That is the statistical truth. Oh, for those asking about giveaways, he was 13th with 21.

Lone Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:50 PM
  #333
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Gui was also a -2 last year..... much improved from his rookie season total of -22. He's improving in all aspects of his game... but the haters still hate.

Beakermania* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:52 PM
  #334
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russeltown View Post
I usually don't read these threads for various reasons. It is circular, we all know what is going to happen, there is always going to be a scapegoat on that team, the arguments are always the same.

Latendresse enters his 3rd year in the NHL and will be a good player for the Habs. Some people just don't like him, no obvious reasons why (other than the Post #15 Rule).
Chris Higgins has to step to the next level in order to become the player he wants to be.
Max Pacioretty is having an exceptional camp and there are no reasons to rush him. I am confident that he will play 30 to 40 games with the Habs this year, but if it's to be on a 4th line, I'd rather see him play 20 minutes with first line duties in the minors.

/thread.
In short :


Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:54 PM
  #335
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfinhabsclothing View Post
1.) Who does he hit? I see him hitting the boards alot, after he gets there a few seconds after the puck carrier left

2.) He's scored 16 goals - mostly when carried by Koivu. The give him more minutes and he'll get more goals arguement holds no water. Why? Because...

3.) He's a massive defensive liability and can't be given quality minutes against top line opponents. Gainey and Carbonneau clearly see that which is why he's never discussed, except by his fans, as a candidate for the top 2 lines. I don't know if you go to the games or just watch on TV, but it's not the same. He CONTINUALLY loses his men. His hockey sense is terrible.

If Gui could be Eric Daze, and score 40-50 goals despite his shortcomings, fine, but he's not even that good and likely will never score even 30. I seriously see him gone in 1-2 years because the kids behind him have far better hockey sense and overall game. For now he's lucky he's big, has a bit of a scoring touch, and is a hometown boy (with the right kind of name).
1-He leads the team in hits playing 4th loine ice time, what more do you want?
2-How can Koivu carry him to 16 goals when they played a grand total of about 5 games together out of 82 last year? Last I checked Koivu played with Ryder the first 25-30 and S.Kost the last 40 games, Higgins was there the whole season. The RW spot between Ryder and S.kost near midseason was about 5 different guys(Kosto Dandenault Lats Streit Ryder) were in and out game by game.
3-how can a winger have massive defensive dificiencies, he has little responsibility to begin with. Carbo has said numerous times last year that he was much better in this aspect.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:56 PM
  #336
Newhabfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,050
vCash: 500
I'm starting to understand why the Habs will keep both Brisebois and Dandenault. Habs fans seem to need someone to hate and they are perfect targets to deflect this hate from guys like Lapierre, Latendresse or Koivu.

Newhabfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 12:57 PM
  #337
David
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilgrain View Post
muller and damphousse we're both elite players. you must be young to not know that.

even though it's a bit early to tell, but i would think that toews, kane and gagner have fairly good chance to become elite themselves
Actually, Claude (may I call you Claude? Mr. Vilgrain? Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time...since my sister was a co-op student and worked wiith one of his relatives back in the mid-'80's!) Muller and Damphousse were upper level players but never really elite players like a Pat Lafontaine or Joey Mullen or Alex Mogilney or Ronnie Franchise. However, you can argue that, which is the reason why I included the word "arguably" in there.

And sadly, you would surprised at how old I am...

And yes, I think that poster was trying to say that Latendresse will become an elite level player and his rate of development indicates this since there are not too many who have scored as many NHL goals at his age.

I think that he has an outside chance at it if he works hard but I disagree that he's developing at a good rate. My point was that guys like Kane, Toews and Gagner show that Latendresse's rate of development is slow...not that late bloomers are not possible...I actually indicated that power forwards develop slower.

David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:01 PM
  #338
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
I'm incorrect actually, now that I look it up, but not by much.

In 73 games, Latendresse spent 12:15 on average each game. That's an average. To compare, Sergei Kostitsyn played 52 games, for an average ice time of 14:21. Maxim Lapierre played 53 games and averaged 13:09. Only Tom Kostopolous (67 games, 11:16) and Mathieu Dandenault (61 games, 11:08) played over 50 games and had less ice time on average than Gui.

Again, remember that. Now factor in that Gui had more hits than any other forward on the team (134), was tied for 4th on the team in even strength goals (14), was tied for third with game winning goals (3, tied with quite a few players, but still, same number as Koivu) and his Goals per game average was a .22, which tied him with Koivu and put him behind only Alex Kovalev, Tomas Plekanec, Andrei Kostitsyn and Christopher Higgins.

That is the statistical truth. Oh, for those asking about giveaways, he was 13th with 21.

Yeah but he doesn't hit and doesn't score...

~note tons of sarcasm~

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:05 PM
  #339
Lone Rogue
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yeah but he doesn't hit and doesn't score...

~note tons of sarcasm~
I could bring up how Latendresse was 33rd for hits in the NHL among all forwards, but then someone would see that Chad Kilger was 31st and cry foul

Lone Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:12 PM
  #340
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Why is Chris Higgins' name even mentionned in your title? Are you seriously suggesting that Paciorretty who has never played a game in the NHL will outscore Higgins??? C'mon! The kid had one good game playing next to Kovalev and Lang in the preseason. He won't be playing with those guys during the regular season. I can understand why Latendresse's name might be mentionned but Higgins' name is firmly penciled into the line-up.
To be fair, the OP didn't have Higgins' name in the title. A moderator (rightfully) changed it after seeing where the debate was headed.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:19 PM
  #341
Lone Rogue
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
Why is Chris Higgins' name even mentionned in your title?
Some "questionably insane" posters were trying to make an argument to trade Chris Higgins for a Top 4 Defenceman.

It's not they were wrong... just questionably insane.

Lone Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:23 PM
  #342
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Some "questionably insane" posters were trying to make an argument to trade Chris Higgins for a Top 4 Defenceman.

It's not they were wrong... just questionably insane.
According to you maybe...

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:31 PM
  #343
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
"I don't really want to be part of the discussion, I just want to have *my* say and who cares what anyone else thinks?"

Hey - now that there's even more moderation on this board (heh that phrase just seems so empty) -

Can we please get infractions handed out for people call for Latendresse to be sent down to Hamilton immediately?

I don't know how many times we have to remind poeple of the waiver rules but maybe it should be a sticky. There's a never-ending deluge of posters with a handful of comments who don't know the deal about sending people down to the 'Dogs.

Or, perhaps Lord Chezz might chime in on this .....?

(and while I'm on the subject how was Chezz passed over?!)

I thought Max Pac finally started to show his potential in the last game. Very impressed with his play both with the puck and away from it. He's got a year in the A to develop his stamina for the long NHL schedule, but I can see him breaking in next year.

Vets will be traded to make room - that's how Detroit does it year in and year out.
Making Chezz a mod would be like Michael Jackson opening a daycare. I mean no disrespect to Chezz here, far from it, but the very idea...

mcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:31 PM
  #344
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24,525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
According to you maybe...
And me.

Trading Higgins for a Top4 that we dont need is ridiculous.
Lets have 8 Dman to start the season with..
Better yet, lets get a 4th D that's under contract for a bunch of seasons so that we can have even less room available next season for our youngsters..

We Do Not Need a 4th Dman, as of today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Making Chezz a mod would be like Michael Jackson opening a daycare. I mean no disrespect to Chezz here, far from it, but the very idea...
I'd sacrifice one of my kids for financial security


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-01-2008 at 01:41 PM.
Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:36 PM
  #345
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And me.

Trading Higgins for a Top4 that we dont need is ridiculous.
Lets have 8 Dman to start the season with..
Better yet, lets get a 4th D that's under contract for a bunch of seasons so that we can have even less room available next season for our youngsters..

We Do Not Need a 4th Dman, as of today.
depends on the D...

how about a right D - 25/26 years old, signed to a decent contract for a few years ?


it's not like it HAVE to be a 35 years old D you know

ECWHSWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:42 PM
  #346
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And me.

Trading Higgins for a Top4 that we dont need is ridiculous.
Lets have 8 Dman to start the season with..
Better yet, lets get a 4th D that's under contract for a bunch of seasons so that we can have even less room available next season for our youngsters..

We Do Not Need a 4th Dman, as of today.
Exactly... check my post in the O'Byrne thread....

We are much better off getting that D close to the deadline.

Beakermania* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:43 PM
  #347
PKtrollban
PK for Norris
 
PKtrollban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Poutine island
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,447
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
[Rant] The discourse on this board epitomizes dispassionate, reasoned and sober debate, the only notable exception being mcphee Itís baffling that every discussion (well almost every discussion) on the merits of a developing player devolves into a mud slinging, shell game between opposing factions of fan boys*

Iíll admit that Iím slightly giddy after watching Paciorettyís performance last night, but instead of booking Latendresse or Higgins a limousine ride to Dorval and putting Max in the starting line up, I think it might be prudent to consider what is best for the club and the development of all three players. Pacioretty played 37 games last year (at the collegiate level), Iím not sure his development would be best served by flinging him into the arduous grind of the NHL regular season. Why not let him mature in the AHL instead of having him potentially wear down playing limited minutes against men, naturally he could be called up if required.

In terms of Lantendresse, Iím not sure why anyone would be anxious to throw a 21 year old under a bus. Not living up to unreasonable expectations doesnít mean that a player canít or wonít continue to develop (same applies for Higgins). Which brings us to Higgins, a versatile two way player, reportedly a decent leader (a sentiment that three former Hab captains seem to share) who can also pot a decent to respectable number of goals. What kind of inbred whelp thinks itís a good idea to get this guy out of town?

Can those of us who feel that having a prospect like Pacioretty and young developing players like Latendresse and Higgins is a good thing please stand up and laugh the fanboys* off the dais? [/Rant]

* - I use the term without reference to gender, though it still retains its pejorative meaning.
Grrrrreat rant, I couldn't said it better. I'm so tired of the Latendresse bashing around here, so much hate for one quality prospect... I think if his name was 'Smith' instead of Latendresse, everyone would be happy...

PKtrollban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:46 PM
  #348
Maxpac
Registered User
 
Maxpac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 14,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Gui was also a -2 last year..... much improved from his rookie season total of -22. He's improving in all aspects of his game... but the haters still hate.
there idiots who don't know **** about the game, sadly they exist and will continue to do so....

Maxpac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:47 PM
  #349
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Gui was also a -2 last year..... much improved from his rookie season total of -22. He's improving in all aspects of his game... but the haters still hate.
how many times do people bring up the plus/minus thing and when they do it's only good for players they like. When Ryder went from -20 to -4 last year people still said he was bad defensivly, so why doesn't this argument apply to Lats.

Plus/minus is the most useless stat in the game unless it's being used to evaluate a team's play. Plus/minus is a representative stat, Brad Richards was -20 last year does that mean Lats is better than him defensivly? Absolutley not! The only time the plus/minus can be used as an individual stat is if the entire time is a plus and one player is-30.

Honestly at this point I'm willing to trade Latendresse, O'byrne, and prospect besides max and if needed a first rounder to get a top 3 D-man.

Andrei Plekanec Kovalev
Higgins Koivu Tanguay
Pacioretty Lang Sergei
Laraque Chipchura Lappiere

Markov Komesarek
Hamrlik *the d-man we traded for*
Boullion Gorges


Last edited by Andy: 10-01-2008 at 01:52 PM.
Andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2008, 01:50 PM
  #350
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24,525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
depends on the D...

how about a right D - 25/26 years old, signed to a decent contract for a few years ?


it's not like it HAVE to be a 35 years old D you know
If we get a young 25/26yo D, signed to a decent contract with some pretty good skills, it's gonna cost you more than Higgins.

Unless I misread, it was a Higgins vs 4th D straight up deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFly View Post
how many times do people bring up the plus/minus thing and when they do it's only good for players they like. When Ryder went from -20 to -4 last year people still said he was bad defensivly, so why doesn't this argument apply to Lats.

Plus/minus is the most useless stat in the game unless it's being used to evaluate a team's play. Plus/minus is a representative stat, Brad Richards was -20 last year does that mean Lats is better than him defensivly? Absolutley not! The only time the plus/minus can be used as an individual stat is if the entire time is a plus and one player is-30.
You can use the +/- to compare players within your team.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-01-2008 at 02:05 PM.
Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.