HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Bobby Orr vs. Paul Coffey

View Poll Results: Bobby Orr vs. Paul Coffey
Bobby Orr 15 100.00%
Paul Coffey 0 0%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-07-2008, 10:38 PM
  #1
S.S. Giggy
RIP 1974-2011
 
S.S. Giggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Getzlaf's Bald Spot
Country: United States
Posts: 1,837
vCash: 500
Bobby Orr vs. Paul Coffey

They played in different eras but if you were to put those two on the ice, who would have a better game?

S.S. Giggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2008, 10:45 PM
  #2
Kyle McMahon
Registered User
 
Kyle McMahon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Evil Empire
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,878
vCash: 500
This is a joke right?

They may score the same amount of points, but Orr's defensive presence far outweighs Coffey's.

Kyle McMahon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2008, 11:17 PM
  #3
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,309
vCash: 500
Not a fair comparison at all.

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2008, 11:25 PM
  #4
Crosbyfan
Registered User
 
Crosbyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.S. Giggy View Post
They played in different eras but if you were to put those two on the ice, who would have a better game?
What condition are Orr's knees in for the comparison? For this to be close they have to be pretty bad.

Crosbyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2008, 11:33 PM
  #5
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
This is a joke right?

They may score the same amount of points, but Orr's defensive presence far outweighs Coffey's.
x10

Orr was a 9/10 Defensively and better offensively than Coffey
Coffey was a 4/10 Defensively

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2008, 11:35 PM
  #6
Leafidelity
Way she goes...
 
Leafidelity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,376
vCash: 1775
Orr is arguably the best player of all time, this is nuts

Leafidelity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2008, 11:53 PM
  #7
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
They are two of the greatest players in the history of the game but I don't think you'll find anyone that puts Coffey ahead of Orr.

It is like comparing Gretzky and Jagr.

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 12:04 AM
  #8
poise
Registered User
 
poise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 232
vCash: 500
While this is a... less than ideal way to start talking about this... I do want to point out that Paul Coffey is easily the most comparable Defenseman to Bobby Orr that I have seen both in style and in effectiveness.

I feel that Coffey's three peak years were the best years of any non-Orr Defenseman ever, because they were quite easily the closest thing to Orr since Orr and watching him play at that time is the major reason that Coffey is one of my favorite Players and in me ranking him as a top 5 Defenseman (in a class behind Ray Bourque, Doug Harvey, Vyacheslav Fetisov and above Denis Potvin and Red Kelly).

At the time when Coffey was putting up his 120+ point seasons, there was a ton of press about him and Orr; everyone was searching for the next Orr and Coffey came closest.

There were a few people who held the opinion that Coffey was basically around Orr's level at that time. One writer mentioned that Coffey "proved that he is ready to be mentioned in the same breath as Hall of Fame defender Bobby Orr" (Detroit Free Press - May 16, 1985); another wrote: "Entering this season [1985-1986], Coffey had only the legend of Orr in front of him. Now he stands alongside him" (The Record [New Jersey] - April 4, 1986).

Ted Green who got the chance to play with Orr as his teammate and coach Coffey as Assistant Coach of the Oilers remarked "Nobody could've done better, including Himself [Orr]" (Daily News of Los Angeles - October 20, 1985) after a performance against Winnipeg during the 1985 Cup run.

Of course, other people disagreed.

Some said that while the point totals between the two are similar, Coffey played on an incredibly stacked team, thus boosting his totals. I understand this point, but Orr's Bruins are themselves the best candidate for the second best Offensive team in league history. I do agree that Coffey should not exactly be held as Orr's equal in terms of Offensive effectiveness, but as a very close second. I don't think either Orr or Coffey had a lot of "quiet points" in the way that many Defensemen do.

Others made the distinction at the Defensive level. This is one difference I see when comparing what I've seen of Orr to Coffey, but it certainly is not as great as suggested. Orr himself got criticized for his sacrificing Defense for Offense. Harry Sinden himself said: "When Orr played in Boston he could make all the mistakes he wanted - and he made plenty," Sinden says. "The mistakes were overlooked by everyone, me included" (Toronto Star - January 8, 1987).

Both Coffey and Orr played like fourth forwards (ironically, this was used as a compliment to Orr suggesting how he revolutionized Hockey but is frequently brought up as detriment to Coffey and his alleged lack of Defense), and both found themselves caught a lot deep in the Offensive zone when the puck started to go the other way. However, both could and did use their speed to get back in position.

Bobby Orr seemed more Defensively aware than Coffey, but again, it wasn't a big difference. One major deal is that Bobby Orr certainly tried more than Coffey on Defense; Orr blocked a ton of shots, Coffey rarely did.

The biggest difference I saw however, and it's also a big one mentioned in the media too, was Coffey's inconsistency. While by his peak, Coffey had ended his habit of lapsing badly in the second half of the season (he was the best Defenseman of the 1981–1982 season until he became, in his own words, the worst Defenseman from February on), he still suffered inconsistency on a game by game and even shift by shift basis. I didn't see this with Orr (granted I've watched much less Orr than Coffey).

One more stylistic difference between the two is that Coffey was a lot more give and go than Orr, who would handle the puck a really long time. Coffey had this ability though, but given the circumstances of his team and his role, it would be foolish to do so. Ray Bourque, especially early in his career had a real tendency to over handle the puck, and it made a real difference in his Offensive effectiveness as compared to Coffey (both shared a very similar skill set).

Lastly, Coffey did not sustain his level of play like Orr did. Injuries have a ton to do with this, however. Had Coffey been healthy for those two years following his 138 point season, I think his opinion among most would soar. By the time he was in Pittsburgh, he was already on the decline.

To answer your question, Orr would have the better game. He would be more consistent and better Defensively. I will also say that if you couldn't get Orr, than Coffey would definitely be your number 2, and if both were playing at their best, there wouldn't be too much of a dropoff.

poise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 12:10 AM
  #9
Der Kaiser
Registered User
 
Der Kaiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gothenburg, SWE
Country: Sweden
Posts: 800
vCash: 500
Counting pure offense, Coffey is probably who I'd rank second to Orr, and not that far off to be honest. But taking into account all the other things a defenseman should handle, he loses his ground quite quickly.

Der Kaiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 12:13 AM
  #10
Trebek
Mod Supervisor
 
Trebek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,600
vCash: 500
Paul Coffey was a great defenseman, but it's going to take an argument of bilrosian proportions to vote for him over Orr.

Trebek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 01:22 AM
  #11
Trottier
Very Random
 
Trottier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29,174
vCash: 500
As others have suggested, not even close.

Stylistically, Coffey earns a comparison and the guy certainly produced offense, famously.

But, as is, there are several other modern era dmen who clearly rank between Orr, who was unquestionably the best ever, and Coffey. Two examples: Ray Bourque and Denis Potvin had much more cerebral games than the scintillating Coffey. But both were also much more complete, and frankly superior, players.

Trottier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 03:06 AM
  #12
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
As others have suggested, not even close.

Stylistically, Coffey earns a comparison and the guy certainly produced offense, famously.

But, as is, there are several other modern era dmen who clearly rank between Orr, who was unquestionably the best ever, and Coffey. Two examples: Ray Bourque and Denis Potvin had much more cerebral games than the scintillating Coffey. But both were also much more complete, and frankly superior, players.
You have to admit, offensively Coffey and Orr are not far apart at all, they are clearly the 1st and 2nd best offensive dmen ever. Yeah defensively it's not close but I think an argument can be made that Coffey may get the edge for offensive ability.

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 03:09 AM
  #13
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 24,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor No View Post
Paul Coffey was a great defenseman, but it's going to take an argument of bilrosian proportions to vote for him over Orr.
I laughed, agreed, then laughed again.

Ohashi_Jouzu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 04:21 AM
  #14
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poise View Post
While this is a... less than ideal way to start talking about this... I do want to point out that Paul Coffey is easily the most comparable Defenseman to Bobby Orr that I have seen both in style and in effectiveness.

I feel that Coffey's three peak years were the best years of any non-Orr Defenseman ever, because they were quite easily the closest thing to Orr since Orr and watching him play at that time is the major reason that Coffey is one of my favorite Players and in me ranking him as a top 5 Defenseman (in a class behind Ray Bourque, Doug Harvey, Vyacheslav Fetisov and above Denis Potvin and Red Kelly).

At the time when Coffey was putting up his 120+ point seasons, there was a ton of press about him and Orr; everyone was searching for the next Orr and Coffey came closest.

There were a few people who held the opinion that Coffey was basically around Orr's level at that time. One writer mentioned that Coffey "proved that he is ready to be mentioned in the same breath as Hall of Fame defender Bobby Orr" (Detroit Free Press - May 16, 1985); another wrote: "Entering this season [1985-1986], Coffey had only the legend of Orr in front of him. Now he stands alongside him" (The Record [New Jersey] - April 4, 1986).

Ted Green who got the chance to play with Orr as his teammate and coach Coffey as Assistant Coach of the Oilers remarked "Nobody could've done better, including Himself [Orr]" (Daily News of Los Angeles - October 20, 1985) after a performance against Winnipeg during the 1985 Cup run.

Of course, other people disagreed.

Some said that while the point totals between the two are similar, Coffey played on an incredibly stacked team, thus boosting his totals. I understand this point, but Orr's Bruins are themselves the best candidate for the second best Offensive team in league history. I do agree that Coffey should not exactly be held as Orr's equal in terms of Offensive effectiveness, but as a very close second. I don't think either Orr or Coffey had a lot of "quiet points" in the way that many Defensemen do.

Others made the distinction at the Defensive level. This is one difference I see when comparing what I've seen of Orr to Coffey, but it certainly is not as great as suggested. Orr himself got criticized for his sacrificing Defense for Offense. Harry Sinden himself said: "When Orr played in Boston he could make all the mistakes he wanted - and he made plenty," Sinden says. "The mistakes were overlooked by everyone, me included" (Toronto Star - January 8, 1987).

Both Coffey and Orr played like fourth forwards (ironically, this was used as a compliment to Orr suggesting how he revolutionized Hockey but is frequently brought up as detriment to Coffey and his alleged lack of Defense), and both found themselves caught a lot deep in the Offensive zone when the puck started to go the other way. However, both could and did use their speed to get back in position.

Bobby Orr seemed more Defensively aware than Coffey, but again, it wasn't a big difference. One major deal is that Bobby Orr certainly tried more than Coffey on Defense; Orr blocked a ton of shots, Coffey rarely did.


The biggest difference I saw however, and it's also a big one mentioned in the media too, was Coffey's inconsistency. While by his peak, Coffey had ended his habit of lapsing badly in the second half of the season (he was the best Defenseman of the 19811982 season until he became, in his own words, the worst Defenseman from February on), he still suffered inconsistency on a game by game and even shift by shift basis. I didn't see this with Orr (granted I've watched much less Orr than Coffey).

One more stylistic difference between the two is that Coffey was a lot more give and go than Orr, who would handle the puck a really long time. Coffey had this ability though, but given the circumstances of his team and his role, it would be foolish to do so. Ray Bourque, especially early in his career had a real tendency to over handle the puck, and it made a real difference in his Offensive effectiveness as compared to Coffey (both shared a very similar skill set).

Lastly, Coffey did not sustain his level of play like Orr did. Injuries have a ton to do with this, however. Had Coffey been healthy for those two years following his 138 point season, I think his opinion among most would soar. By the time he was in Pittsburgh, he was already on the decline.

To answer your question, Orr would have the better game. He would be more consistent and better Defensively. I will also say that if you couldn't get Orr, than Coffey would definitely be your number 2, and if both were playing at their best, there wouldn't be too much of a dropoff.
Orr almost always got back into position, and was absolutely stellar defensively in ways Coffey could never imagine.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 04:42 AM
  #15
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
I say the mods invoke the mercy rule and close this poll.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 05:45 AM
  #16
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,309
vCash: 500
Done

Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 08:48 AM
  #17
RECsGuy*
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,478
vCash: 500
Take a look at how the Oilers, Penguins, Kings and Red Wings did almost immediately after Coffey exited. It isn't a coincidence. He wasn't even a factor in the lone Cup he won outside of Edmonton. The most overrated, one-dimensional hockey player to ever grace a sheet of ice. Worst yet, he sulked when he was dealt to Hartford and then hung on for some pathetic, paycheck-pulling hockey in Boston, Carolina and Chicago. And don't even bring up his stint with the Flyers. Philly's succes in the '97 postseason had much more to do with LeClair and Lindros than Coffey's paltry contribution. Bernie Nicholls? Jari Kurri? No, no. It's is the "great" Paul Coffey who is far and away the biggest Wayne Gretzky beneficiary. The quintessential stat padder, team dragger.


Last edited by RECsGuy*: 10-08-2008 at 09:13 AM.
RECsGuy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 09:00 AM
  #18
cashman rules*
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Timmins ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,413
vCash: 500
Don't even try to compare coffey to bourque

cashman rules* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 01:50 PM
  #19
85highlander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
As an avid Orr supporter, I will say that Coffey's superb skating was a joy to watch. While not the complete player that Orr was (or Bourque for that matter), I never saw a defenseman skate as well as Coffey (at least since a post '72 Orr), including Bourque or Niedermayer...

85highlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 01:58 PM
  #20
BNHL
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 14,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 85highlander View Post
As an avid Orr supporter, I will say that Coffey's superb skating was a joy to watch. While not the complete player that Orr was (or Bourque for that matter), I never saw a defenseman skate as well as Coffey (at least since a post '72 Orr), including Bourque or Niedermayer...
I never find joy in beautiful skating.

BNHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 02:40 PM
  #21
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,723
vCash: 500
All I can say is LOL.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 02:51 PM
  #22
85highlander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
I never find joy in beautiful skating.
I find more joy in a bone crushing hit or a left hook, but I'm trying to be nice....

85highlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 03:06 PM
  #23
krauts
Registered User
 
krauts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
I never find joy in beautiful skating.
Watching Bobby Orr skate was a joyous thing, he did it like no other I've ever seen. I could watch it for hours.

And in Coffey's defense, he was (in his prime) the closest I've seen. I remember him hitting center ice and then somehow coasting through the defense, didn't take a stride all the way in but still went around everybody. But yeah, he should have hung 'em up a lot earlier. Funny how little press there was when he and Raymond were vying for the all-time points record. I think a lot of people didn't realize he was even still playing.

krauts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 03:11 PM
  #24
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,533
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RECsGuy View Post
Take a look at how the Oilers, Penguins, Kings and Red Wings did almost immediately after Coffey exited. It isn't a coincidence. He wasn't even a factor in the lone Cup he won outside of Edmonton. The most overrated, one-dimensional hockey player to ever grace a sheet of ice. Worst yet, he sulked when he was dealt to Hartford and then hung on for some pathetic, paycheck-pulling hockey in Boston, Carolina and Chicago. And don't even bring up his stint with the Flyers. Philly's succes in the '97 postseason had much more to do with LeClair and Lindros than Coffey's paltry contribution. Bernie Nicholls? Jari Kurri? No, no. It's is the "great" Paul Coffey who is far and away the biggest Wayne Gretzky beneficiary. The quintessential stat padder, team dragger.
(clear throat) umm....look Coffey was no Orr. I do pity the OP on this one because I knew he would get ripped. And if you want to call his defense shoddy then go ahead, it wasnt Bourque defense, but it wasnt Housley either.

But dont go ranting about something ridiculous like saying he was a point leach. He certainly was NOT that. Very few NHL players in history have the natural skill Cof had. Look at his speed, his moves, his pinpoint passes. And while he wasnt physical he was usually defensively aware. He was the defenseman back in the '84 Canada Cup semi final game in overtime. It was Doug Wilson that foolishly pinched in, not Coffey. It was Coffey that bailed them out with a smart defensive play.

The best year that Lemieux ever had was a year that Coffey was his defenseman. Ditto for Gretzky. Fedorov had 100+ points twice when Coffey was his defenseman but was only a PPG player ONE non-Coffey year in his career. Coincidence? You tell me. Three Norrises, 4 Cups, 3 Canada Cups, 8 times voted to the 1st or 2nd all-star team.

Plus while he didnt do anything after '96 for the last 5 years that isnt how he should or will be remembered. Coffey led his team in points in '95, won the Norris and he was 34! Not bad. Now I have my theory as to why he isnt a leech. You explain to me how he IS a leech.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 03:32 PM
  #25
lextune
I'm too old for this
 
lextune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 9,730
vCash: 500
They are obviously not even close. Orr towers over Coffey in ways too innumerable to measure.

That being said I think the most pertinent thing yet mentioned in the thread is pure skating ability.

That is the one area in which I always did see a comparison between them. As already mentioned, Orr used his to far greater effect than Coffey ever did, or could. But that does not negate the notable similarity.

lextune is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:44 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.