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Old
10-12-2008, 09:17 PM
  #1
bladoww
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Malik

Hey guys, Bolts fan here...

So the rumor is we may be getting this guy. I can't pretend to know a whole lot about him, but I do know most of you all aren't big fans of his, and I was hoping to get some specifics, maybe pros and cons, and as to why you all think he's no good. I personally am not too excited. Thanks in advance!

http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/

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10-12-2008, 09:26 PM
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The bad- he is a very slow skater. He has a HUGE frame but unfortunately he doesn't use it. He hits like it's a pillow fight between two middle school girls. He has a decent poke check, and is great at deflecting pucks in really athletic ways... into his own net. He also is really good at screening his own goalie. Lundqvist is VERY calm in net no matter what happens, but with Malik you could visually see he was getting frustrated with him. He also takes bad penalties at the worst times. He cries when things don't go his way.

the good- He's pretty good at outlet passes, and is EXTREMELY useful if you are in the 15th round of a shootout, especially if Olaf Kolzig is in goal, so if you ever face Kolzig in a shootout... oh wait, nevermind...

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10-12-2008, 09:29 PM
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He's better than some of the guys you have out there now. Your gonna get a lot of responces that he's slow and he sucks but in reality he is a career + player, averaging +30 his last few seasons. He was +7 last year and that is a bad year for him. Not sure how he does it but he is always a + team leader so he must be doing something right out there. I thought he was very good for us his first two seasons to be honest.

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10-12-2008, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladoww View Post
Hey guys, Bolts fan here...

So the rumor is we may be getting this guy. I can't pretend to know a whole lot about him, but I do know most of you all aren't big fans of his, and I was hoping to get some specifics, maybe pros and cons, and as to why you all think he's no good. I personally am not too excited. Thanks in advance!

http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/
If you were looking for positive reinforcement, you definitely came to the wrong place. Here is what anyone on here will tell you: He is too big for his own skill and has poor coordination. He is not a very good skater, nor does he like to use his body to his advantage. He is not physical at all. He is prone to egregious turnovers in his own end. Also tends to deflect the puck past his own goalie. It is also perceived that he has a poor attitude when things dont go his way. He may have been a victim of cricumstance as the Garden crowd quickly turned on him, which did not help his play. I would imagine it is hard to play when being booed every time your name is announced or you touch the puck.

On the bright side he has a decent to good outlet pass and scored an awesome circus goal in a shootout against your backup goalie.

Best of luck.

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10-12-2008, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladoww View Post
Hey guys, Bolts fan here...

So the rumor is we may be getting this guy. I can't pretend to know a whole lot about him, but I do know most of you all aren't big fans of his, and I was hoping to get some specifics, maybe pros and cons, and as to why you all think he's no good. I personally am not too excited. Thanks in advance!

http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/
Look, you came to the right place.

Hes slow. He takes horrible penalties. And is quite possibly one of the most softest defenseman in the league.The problem is not him screening his own goalie, but the fact that while hes doing it he cant even get the opposing forward out of the way.

However, he does make great outlet passes to get the rush started, which is why the Rangers did so much better with him in the line up.

Hes better then some of your dmen right now so it would be an upgrade.

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10-12-2008, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
He's better than some of the guys you have out there now. Your gonna get a lot of responces that he's slow and he sucks but in reality he is a career + player, averaging +30 his last few seasons. He was +7 last year and that is a bad year for him. Not sure how he does it but he is always a + team leader so he must be doing something right out there. I thought he was very good for us his first two seasons to be honest.
Team leader? Didn't he not shake Renney's hand and storm out of the locker room after a game last season? Or at least something to that effect

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10-12-2008, 09:46 PM
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Ouch, sucks for Bolts fans.

When it comes to defense, its better if you dont hear a defensmens name often unless they are killing people like phaneuf, block a ton of shots, or putting up points.

Youll hear Maliks name often, but not for any of these reasons. He always seems to be in the wrong place making the wrong mistake late in the 3rd.

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10-12-2008, 09:47 PM
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You know I'm sure no one recalls (or is willing to admit it), but before Avery Malik was "that guy" with that stat which had the team have a much better record with him in the line up than without.

He's just one of those players that when he makes a mistake it's almost always at a bad time in a bad place leading to a bad goal. Other than that he can easily be a bottom pair defenseman on most teams in the league.

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10-12-2008, 09:52 PM
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Brian Boyle
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Team leader? Didn't he not shake Renney's hand and storm out of the locker room after a game last season? Or at least something to that effect
read that more carefully

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladmyir111 View Post
You know I'm sure no one recalls (or is willing to admit it), but before Avery Malik was "that guy" with that stat which had the team have a much better record with him in the line up than without.

He's just one of those players that when he makes a mistake it's almost always at a bad time in a bad place leading to a bad goal. Other than that he can easily be a bottom pair defenseman on most teams in the league.
the Rangers record was very bad in games without Malik, Poti and/or Kasparaitis that season. their defensive depth just couldn't make up for it.

though Malik was good that season.

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Old
10-12-2008, 10:31 PM
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He's not as bad as you will hear in this thread. But he's probably not suited to be anything more than a bottom 6 d-man.

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10-12-2008, 10:41 PM
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The first two seasons he was with the Rangers, even though he'd have occasional clangers, I thought he was actually a very effective player. He came with a not great reputation that was hard to shake, but he was definitely a decent D-man. His last season, however, I thought his play dropped off significantly.

I think it's possible that Malik just isn't NHL material anymore, but if he can play up to his level of a couple of years ago, you'd end up with a player who makes a lot of quiet, very good plays and a few glaring bad ones.

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10-12-2008, 10:57 PM
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hes ur problem now

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10-12-2008, 11:05 PM
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Amazing Malik was a TOP pair D Man on the Rangers 2 years ago.

He was not really that good then, and hes likely not really as bad as you'll hear in this thread.

1. He's very cool when he has the puck, most of the time. Positionally in his zone he's solid. He's big and he'll block some shots. He's actually a pretty good handler but he's slow so he's not rushing the puck too much. (check his famous SO goal in 06 where he OWNS the gwg goal with a move you have to see to believe. Cool and steady)

2. He is very slow in the 08 NHL. If he has to race for the puck, he's likely to lose and than take a penalty doing damage control.

3. He is BIG and I don't think I saw him throw a real meaningful bodycheck the whole time he was in NY. He's just not a physical guy. Frustrating to the fans.

4. He got beat out of his spot last year and he didn't like it. He didn't handle it well and he disrespected Renny. That didn't go over well in the room.

5. He deserves another shot. A fresh start

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10-12-2008, 11:09 PM
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read that more carefully

Whoops. Not sure how I made that mistake, although the wording of the post is a little weird

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Old
10-13-2008, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
Amazing Malik was a TOP pair D Man on the Rangers 2 years ago.

He was not really that good then, and hes likely not really as bad as you'll hear in this thread.

1. He's very cool when he has the puck, most of the time. Positionally in his zone he's solid. He's big and he'll block some shots. He's actually a pretty good handler but he's slow so he's not rushing the puck too much. (check his famous SO goal in 06 where he OWNS the gwg goal with a move you have to see to believe. Cool and steady)

2. He is very slow in the 08 NHL. If he has to race for the puck, he's likely to lose and than take a penalty doing damage control.

3. He is BIG and I don't think I saw him throw a real meaningful bodycheck the whole time he was in NY. He's just not a physical guy. Frustrating to the fans.

4. He got beat out of his spot last year and he didn't like it. He didn't handle it well and he disrespected Renny. That didn't go over well in the room.

5. He deserves another shot. A fresh start

I am not that down on Malik either.

He saw a lot of ice time as a Ranger, he did play on top D line because he was paired
with Rozival for obvious reasons. He is not a top line dman, so much as clear but he is not a disaster most people here will have you know. Many Ranger fans started to
booh him and I am amazed the guy was able to string a pass together under the cirumstances. There was a lot of pressure on him. Frankly I thought it was a disgrace by the Ranger fans to buh him and it was doing the team no service.

When you get a 7ft player you know you will not be getting a second coming of Ruotsalainen. Size is useful at times and a handicap at others. Size doesn't automatically mean big hitting. It is tough for a big guy to coordinate a hit, and as a result staying out of the penalty box, his big penalty minutes mean that he is an awkward hitter.

The closest analogy I can make is that he played like the Gentle giant Kjell Samuelson
of the Rangers, Flyers and Pens. He has good reach, he will be defensively responsible and he will give you good service and likely to be either even or plus player. I can't imagine how much you would have to pay for him, but I reckon it wouldn't be that much adn for that I think he is a good acquisiton.

I saw your D in Prague, and you need help.

Michalek is a younger version of Malik, but he can't pass the puck the way Malik can.
Malik has composure....at times he has too much of it and he will make the errant pass which will inevitably
lead to opposition goal chance. But I reckon his plus far outweigh the minuses. It is impossible to expect that D will be error free.;...

I think it is a good acquisition for you

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Old
10-13-2008, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladoww View Post
Hey guys, Bolts fan here...

So the rumor is we may be getting this guy. I can't pretend to know a whole lot about him, but I do know most of you all aren't big fans of his, and I was hoping to get some specifics, maybe pros and cons, and as to why you all think he's no good. I personally am not too excited. Thanks in advance!

http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/
Some objective facts:
-Tom Renney played him more then 4 other NYR D's for 2 straight seasons.
-Malik had tremendous +/- stats.
-In the 06/07 PO's Malik played over 70 minuts of box play, and was on the ice for 1 goal against. In PO hockey, against guys like Marian Hossa, Kovalchuk and a really strong Buffalo offense while Drury and Briere and Campbell was still there. Over 70 minutes of 4 on 5 and plenty of 3 on 5 chances, and only 1 goal against. Many rangers fans still expressed that they thought Malik was the worst D in the league by a wide margin. Despite his heroic play in the PO's that year. He had one giveaway BTW, a pass that Nyls failed to pick up by like 1 inch.
-Malik started to get slower and slower every year. When Renney sat him in his 3rd year Malik acted really bad. Paul Mara, Malik and Struds all was scratched that year, in turns really. But Malik wouldn't accept it and that was the end to his career here.
-Malik was booed during the lineup during before the first preseason game in NY after the lockout. He and Kevin Weekes. I got that on video.

Fans in NY have also trashed Renney, Rozsival, Nylander, Jagr and several others in turns. Despite thoose guys beeing pretty successful here. A huge majority belived for a long time that Nyls scored all his pts only because of JJ, and that basically Dom Moore would have put up the same amount of pts as Nylander. A majority of fans though Thomas Pck was a lock to make the team over Michael Rozsival after the first camp after the lockout, the same fans went nuts when Renney went with Rozi over Pck and have screamed for Renney's head for years. Like thoose fans saw Thomas Pck make two good passes in that first preseason -- and for sure belived that he was a future star in the NHL. And couldn't belive their eyes that Renney played Rozsival because "Rozsival wouldn't be a top 6 D on 28 other teams in this league" (exact quote from TrueBlue).

What you can say for sure is that the opinion of plenty of fans in NY isn't always correct. Like Nylander actually helped Jagr allot. Rozsival for sure was the right player to play over Thomas Pck. Tom Renney wanted a skill team and was trashed for it, now everyone is gooing with skill.

Its the same with Malik. He did allot more good then he did bad when he was here. But during thoose 3 years he was constantly booed more then any other player in this league -- by a wide margin. In the end that broke him.

Where he stands now is hard to say.

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Old
10-13-2008, 07:20 AM
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Yeah, there is some hyperbole over how bad Malik may have been here in NY.

Yes, he's not a fast skater, but he's generally good at positioning and using his stick to make up for that lack of speed. Where he can get into trouble is if he can't catch up for one reason or another and can take hooking penalties when that happens. But contrary to popular belief, it isn't some constant march to the penalty box.

Yes, he doesn't hit a lot, but he's also doesn't really shy away from being hit or anything. He just tends to use his stick and positioning (like I mentioned before) instead of throwing hits in order to make defensive plays. I don't think he'll shy away from taking a hit in order to make a play.

His offensive game is pretty nonexistent, but he usually has a very good breakout pass. That's probably his biggest strength, and if your team needs help starting the transition game, he could help there a lot.

But what really pissed off some Rangers fans is that he will occasionally make some pretty big gaffes. Usually in the form of a bad pass in his own end that results in a turnover. Honestly, he's probably not so much worse about that then other guys, but when it happens, it tends to stand out because the rest of his game flies under the radar. You don't notice him a whole lot out there until he screws up, but in the meantime, he's been making good plays and good breakout passes.

That all said, I think he did go downhill a bit last year, and couldn't get back into the lineup on a consistent basis after recovering from an injury. He also pouted when that happened.

I'm not really sure where his game is at now. If you get the good Malik, he'll help your team. But if you get the inconsistent Malik, he'll probably frustrate you with that inconsistency.

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10-13-2008, 07:32 AM
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Malik makes mistakes now and again. The Rangers may partly be at fault for having him on the top pair--and in more pressure situations--though he got to play all the time with the likes of Nylander, Jagr, Straka his first two seasons. It's not that he's not a physical player--it's that he doesn't initiate. Any player his size though has a physical component. He's prone to the spectacular mistake--he will take bad penalties more often than some. Generally speaking his outlet passes our good--his defensive positioning is good. The comment on him deflecting pucks into his own net is more or less fair but he's a good pk'er and his long reach can be very effective in breaking up passing plays.

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10-13-2008, 08:11 AM
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Truth is the Rangers mis-used him a bit.

On some nights he was a very effective player, but on more occasions - even though he could handle the minutes - he exposed himself or made a bad turnover. It seemed like his mistakes always lead to a flurry of activity for the opposition, and then somehow got off the ice for resulting goal. His +/- was great, but it never really correlated with his play.

He really should have been used as a second or third pairing guy (like Kalinin now) here but at the onset was forced into a key role because of his contract and the rest of the Rangers defense.

He does have a good first pass, and can get the puck out of the zone with a patient play, has an above average stick, but he is a brainfart machine. Takes a lot of lazy penalties, gets caught out of position around the net from time to time and as another poster mentioned seems to have a nack for deflecting goals into his own net.

I would be concerned about how he gets a long with Melrose as well. Renney sat him because he was playing like crap and Malik didnt like it and left the team, literally - just walked out - on more than one occasion. Judging from Melrose's early press conferences, this team isnt going to be for the faint-hearted. The fans got on his case bigtime here in NY, so a fresh start would be good for him. I just dont know if Tampa is the right place for him to land, despite the fact they probably could use his services. I think he should go back to Europe and get his game together before returning to the NHL.


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10-13-2008, 08:31 AM
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ok here is what i have to say about malik. i will try and be as honest as i can be with out really exagerating.

Bad:

Very slow-- which means he's a big risk to create odd man rushes for the other team. He cant get back to help out or cover his man in time.

Easily Fooled-- Atleast 2-3 times a game a player megs him w/ the puck. Usually after that since the player has passed him, Marek will take a holding or hooking or tripping penalty.

Penalties-- come in the most inconveniant time. Really frustrating and if the team is a bad penalty killing team then probably really bad for the team.

Never Fights-- I mean i think i saw him fight 1 real fight during his time with the rangers. The other times he just likes to hold onto the other player.

Rarely Stands up for Team Mates-- Last year i remember Straka just getting run over by some player. Malik was seriously 2 feet away. The player that hit straka hit him as a late hit and left his feet. Malik skated away. Straka hobbled to the locker room. Other times include when Malik coulnt stand up for himself and Drury had to fight the guy who hit Malik. The Rangers in return had to play 5 min w/o drury and it resulted in a goal for the other team.

Doesnt Hit-- Malik is usually content in jamming the player with the puck. Rarely do u see Malik put a shoulder down and just take some guy into the boards, Malik will stick his hips and behind out and just try and clog the player so he can no longer skate with the puck. Many times the player would just skate around Malik and he'd be stuck taking another hooking or tripping or holding penalty.

Hand Passes-- I dont think this guy understood this rule. The Rangers would get some form of a break and itd be whistled dead due to a hand pass... from malik. I realize you can do that in the defensive zone but he did it everywhere.

Bad Passing-- He turned it over many times with bad passes. Sometimes he'd wiff and others he'd just pass really badly whether it be really behind the player or too far ahead for the player.

Own Goals-- Malik also struggled with own goals. Since he refused to be physical in any way Malik would end up standing in front of the net trying to push the other player away... but not being able to. This made him very prone to own goals by deflections.

Screening Henrik-- Since he was parked in front of Henrik unable to push the other guy out it would create basically a big screen for henrik. Many times Henrik would talk to Malik about something (can't tell on tv but it usually happened after the screening) but Malik would just continue on blocking his view instead of using his physicallity to push the other player away.

Very Slow-- sorry but he is just so slow it needs to be mentioned twice. that was probably his worst quality. He could not skate fast for his life. I needed to emphasize how slow he is.

Never blocks shots-- he will never go down to block a shot. he will just stick a skate out and that usually ends up giving a crazy deflection for lundqvuist to try and make an amazing save. Usually that's how goals were scored when Malik was on the ice.

Emotionless-- This guy never changed his face. I mean all he ever did was like move his eyebrows back and forth. He took a penalty... eyebrows back and forth. He deflected an own goal... eyebrows back and forth. He did a good play... eyebrows back and forth... ETC...

Shot not always effective-- i was going to put this on the good part for malik but now as i remember more about him i can remember how many times his stick would break, or he'd wiff, or he'd just flat out miss the net by like 5 or 6 feet. Or the other alternative was that if it was a one timer the puck would probably go out of the zone since he probably missed it trying to shoot a mega shot.

The Good:

Hard Shot-- He had a pretty hard shot. I'll give him that. Does he always get on net? Absolutley NOT. But is it dangerous... Yes it is.

Pressure on the Puck-- He is always pressuring the person with the puck. Trying to poke check or rushing the guy. That was a good part to his game.

He was a good Person-- Honest, never the mean type, he had good values and for that i liked the man. He might not have been a spectacular or even good player but he was a good person and so i hope he succeeds wherever he goes.

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10-13-2008, 08:35 AM
  #21
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He'll be a perfect signing for Tampa and the rest of the NHL


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10-13-2008, 08:52 AM
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Malik's good on a good team and bad on a bad team. He will make some pretty ugly gaffes, prompting a goalie to bail him out, but he can also get a pass out to Vinnie that can lead to a goal or scoring chance. He does have excellent recovery, so while he gets beat often, he always seems to have a second chance due to his size. But the bottom line is if your team is good, you won't notice a lot of bad in him. If your team is struggling, the bad will be accentuated.

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10-13-2008, 09:17 AM
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Malik's good on a good team and bad on a bad team. He will make some pretty ugly gaffes, prompting a goalie to bail him out, but he can also get a pass out to Vinnie that can lead to a goal or scoring chance. He does have excellent recovery, so while he gets beat often, he always seems to have a second chance due to his size. But the bottom line is if your team is good, you won't notice a lot of bad in him. If your team is struggling, the bad will be accentuated.
This is probably true. Even more so if you play him on the top pairing like the Rangers did. Ideally, he's more of a solid bottom pairing or ok second pairing guy, depending on what you expect out of those players.

Again, I think some people over exaggerate his downside, especially the turnover part and screening the goalie, but there is at least a little bit of truth to that. One thing to keep in mind is that the Rangers played a style last year that had them collapse on their own net in an effort to block shots. This does tend to lead to goals being deflected in off their own players at times, and it happened to more players than just Malik. He just gets more blame because he was already a whipping boy.

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10-13-2008, 09:20 AM
  #24
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Gets caught out of position from time to time, shies away from contact. Prone to stupid turnovers. Those were my only knocks against him.

He makes a decent outlet pass, shows glimpses of a real hockey sense, and is fairly durable.

He's fine on the bottom pairing and at times looks like a decent second pairing defenseman.

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10-13-2008, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Gets caught out of position from time to time, shies away from contact. Prone to stupid turnovers. Those were my only knocks against him.

He makes a decent outlet pass, shows glimpses of a real hockey sense, and is fairly durable.

He's fine on the bottom pairing and at times looks like a decent second pairing defenseman.
True. I think the biggest issue with him on the Rangers was that he was our #1 Dman, which as we all know, is absolutely not what Malik is.

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