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Even If pens get First pick could they keep Ovechkin???

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02-26-2004, 10:09 PM
  #1
Habs4ever
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Even If pens get First pick could they keep Ovechkin???

last five years they have traded or let go most of their top star players, so even if they get Ovechkin how long can they keep him, Ovechkin going to pittsuberg will only mean he'll get loaded off to Rangers in no time, mraybe he'll stay in Pittsuberg for few years, but when they become competetive he'll eventually be traded to rich team with pockets, knowing this, is there any chance Pittsuberg could ever become competetive, should they be even allowed to keep top pick if they get it??

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02-26-2004, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
last five years they have traded or let go most of their top star players, so even if they get Ovechkin how long can they keep him, Ovechkin going to pittsuberg will only mean he'll get loaded off to Rangers in no time, mraybe he'll stay in Pittsuberg for few years, but when they become competetive he'll eventually be traded to rich team with pockets, knowing this, is there any chance Pittsuberg could ever become competetive, should they be even allowed to keep top pick if they get it??
Top entry level contracts are 1.85 million, signing bonuses can only make you another 2-3 million.

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02-26-2004, 10:19 PM
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They'll find a way.

The team is set for the long run, they just need to pull out the next 3 or so seasons while they're stuck in the Igloo. The last couple trades were indeed salary dumps, but were made more for the fact that they weren't helping the team for what they were making than pure salary dump, the Penguins did have to pick up some salary in the Straka trade for instance.

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02-26-2004, 10:20 PM
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Even if the Pens have to trade him eventually, Ovechkin will make the Pens a lot of money just like Fleury did.

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02-26-2004, 10:34 PM
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Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
last five years they have traded or let go most of their top star players, so even if they get Ovechkin how long can they keep him, Ovechkin going to pittsuberg will only mean he'll get loaded off to Rangers in no time, mraybe he'll stay in Pittsuberg for few years, but when they become competetive he'll eventually be traded to rich team with pockets, knowing this, is there any chance Pittsuberg could ever become competetive, should they be even allowed to keep top pick if they get it??
You completely left out the fact a new CBA will be negociated soon. We'll know a lot more about smaller franchises' ability to retain impact players after the CBA.

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02-26-2004, 10:38 PM
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I would be shocked if the new CBA doesnt include a cap on the bonuses which can be handed out on entry level contracts. That is one thing that definitely needs fixing IMO.

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02-26-2004, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Top entry level contracts are 1.85 million, signing bonuses can only make you another 2-3 million.
Not necessarily. Bouwmeester's contract could have paid him more than that if he met certain incentives.

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02-27-2004, 12:12 AM
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Luigi Lemieux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
last five years they have traded or let go most of their top star players, so even if they get Ovechkin how long can they keep him, Ovechkin going to pittsuberg will only mean he'll get loaded off to Rangers in no time, mraybe he'll stay in Pittsuberg for few years, but when they become competetive he'll eventually be traded to rich team with pockets, knowing this, is there any chance Pittsuberg could ever become competetive, should they be even allowed to keep top pick if they get it??
Since you spelled it wrong 3 times, i'm guessing it's not a typo.

It's Pittsburgh, not Pittsuberg.

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02-27-2004, 05:54 AM
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lmao...Pittsuberg

I'm so used to seeing Pittsburg I didn't even notice the rest of it being so bad.

That one's a first

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02-27-2004, 06:31 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Top entry level contracts are 1.85 million, signing bonuses can only make you another 2-3 million.
Which is a problem for Pittsburgh. Teams in the WHA will be able to pay more for Ovechkin (not to mention Crosby). Getting either Ovechkin or Crosby in the draft could be more a curse than a blessing.

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02-27-2004, 02:44 PM
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I would absolutely hate it if hockey's drafts turned into baseball drafts where the best players are routinely not picked by the worst (small market) team just because they don't want to pay the salary a top prospect would demand.

A few years ago the Minnesota Twins had the first pick and the consensus best player was Mark Prior, they didn't want to pay the kind of money he would cost and drafted Joe Mauer who "may" make his first appearance this year after Prior has turned into a genuine star.

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02-27-2004, 02:54 PM
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i think so, since Pens are so cheap. Ovechkin as an European prospect makes sense, since they can own his right longer than the North American prospect.

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02-27-2004, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
should they be even allowed to keep top pick if they get it??
Nothing short of an ignorant comment. Here's an idea, why don't we just give the best draft picks to rich teams. Perfect plan. Financially concious teams would suck in perpetuity, and wealthy teams would have the best players, best prospects, best everything.

Wow. I just don't know what else to say.

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02-27-2004, 03:29 PM
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Well if that was ignorent then how do you expalin

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Bear
Nothing short of an ignorant comment. Here's an idea, why don't we just give the best draft picks to rich teams. Perfect plan. Financially concious teams would suck in perpetuity, and wealthy teams would have the best players, best prospects, best everything.

Wow. I just don't know what else to say.

Jagr, Kovalev, Kasparitas, Lang leaving Pittsburghfor next to nothing, they are playing AHL calibre team for a reason, and its not because they can't find star players, its because they can't keep them, I can't see how much better will Ovechkin be compared to Jagr, so Ovechkin getting traded sooner then later isn't far fetched!!

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02-27-2004, 03:29 PM
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Well if that was ignorent then how do you expalin

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Bear
Nothing short of an ignorant comment. Here's an idea, why don't we just give the best draft picks to rich teams. Perfect plan. Financially concious teams would suck in perpetuity, and wealthy teams would have the best players, best prospects, best everything.

Wow. I just don't know what else to say.

Jagr, Kovalev, Kasparitas, Lang leaving Pittsburghfor next to nothing, they are playing AHL calibre team for a reason, and its not because they can't find star players, its because they can't keep them, I can't see how much better will Ovechkin be compared to Jagr, so Ovechkin getting traded sooner then later isn't far fetched!!

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02-27-2004, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
Jagr, Kovalev, Kasparitas, Lang leaving Pittsburghfor next to nothing, they are playing AHL calibre team for a reason, and its not because they can't find star players, its because they can't keep them, I can't see how much better will Ovechkin be compared to Jagr, so Ovechkin getting traded sooner then later isn't far fetched!!
Trading Ovechkin when he is 25 certainly may be a reality. Not being allowed to draft is a whole other silly story.

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02-27-2004, 03:36 PM
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Well whats the worth of drafting a player when you aren't building him upto to

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Bear
Trading Ovechkin when he is 25 certainly may be a reality. Not being allowed to draft is a whole other silly story.
anything, it will take atleast five years for them to rebuild penguines, and thats if everything works out in terms of drafting great talent, but if they were to Trade Ovechkin just as they were becoming playoff contender whats the use, as he demands high salary, they start back at square one, go from being playoff calibre team to being Bottom feeders once again, and as you guessed they get another first pick and maybe another star player, but guess what this circle just won't end until they learn to atleast keep their own players.

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02-27-2004, 03:38 PM
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The Penguins have traded away stars because they were going nowhere fast with those stars on the team. They got owned by the Devils in the ECF last time they made the playoffs. They kept some of these stars for too long, and as a result, hurt the market for them, thus hurting the return. Financial problems complicated things, and they ended up mainly trading players for money and a few second tier prospects.

That said, they traded up to get Fleury, and signed him. They're operating the team at lowest possible budget right now, because quite frankly, they'd still suck if they had a few stars back.

Before Kovalev was dealt, the Pens were in negociations with him to sign him to a relatively long deal. The Penguins were said by numerous sources to be offering deals of 4 million/year for 5 years, or something in that ballpark.

So they should easily be able to afford an entry level contract. Add the fact that the CBA probably limits rookie contracts even more, and hopefully evens things out, and the Penguins will be fine.

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02-27-2004, 03:47 PM
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If I remember correctly they were very explosive until Jagr

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKnowNothing
The Penguins have traded away stars because they were going nowhere fast with those stars on the team. They got owned by the Devils in the ECF last time they made the playoffs. They kept some of these stars for too long, and as a result, hurt the market for them, thus hurting the return. Financial problems complicated things, and they ended up mainly trading players for money and a few second tier prospects.

That said, they traded up to get Fleury, and signed him. They're operating the team at lowest possible budget right now, because quite frankly, they'd still suck if they had a few stars back.

Before Kovalev was dealt, the Pens were in negociations with him to sign him to a relatively long deal. The Penguins were said by numerous sources to be offering deals of 4 million/year for 5 years, or something in that ballpark.

So they should easily be able to afford an entry level contract. Add the fact that the CBA probably limits rookie contracts even more, and hopefully evens things out, and the Penguins will be fine.
was there, They traded upto get Fleury but they could have gotten him third over all anyways as florida wasn't parting with the pick unless they acquired one of top three pick so acquiring fleury isn't that big of a deal. Every team from NHL wants make playoff, and have great playoff run, they had those great runs, until Jagr, and Lemieux were reunited after lemieux came back, but they had to self destruct just because they couldn't keep their own players, I'm not saying they should acquire talent from free agency, but atleast keep team competetive, not many teams can win cup this days, as there are just too many contenders, but looking at last year, I would think keeping playoff calibre team shouldn't be problem for a team, if they already have great foundation build within, in playoff its free for all as long as you have great system build from inside out.

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02-27-2004, 04:02 PM
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The Penguins have traded away stars because they were going nowhere fast with those stars on the team. They got owned by the Devils in the ECF last time they made the playoffs. They kept some of these stars for too long, and as a result, hurt the market for them, thus hurting the return
I have to disagree with this. Every single player you mentioned was in their prime when we traded them. Jagr was coming off 4 straight art rosses, kovalev and straka were both late twenties/early thirties. The only reason we traded them was financial reasons...not because we thought they weren't good or we couldn't win with them.

We got destroyed by Jersey in the Eastern Finals in 2001 not because we had bad stars...in fact we had around 4 goals a game since lemieux's return. We got beat because they had an amazing system that just picked apart our creativity and talent. We had NO system, NO coaching, and NO defense. That's why we lost.

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02-27-2004, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
I have to disagree with this. Every single player you mentioned was in their prime when we traded them. Jagr was coming off 4 straight art rosses, kovalev and straka were both late twenties/early thirties. The only reason we traded them was financial reasons...not because we thought they weren't good or we couldn't win with them.
Well Jagr was demanding a trade, the Penguins also had Lang, Kovalev, Straka and Kaspar going before the arbitrater that summer with the likely result of that a $10 mill or so bump to the salary. Moving Jagrs contract made sense.

The team was plenty good enough the next season to make the playoffs..... until the injuries hit, Mario and Straka missed virtually the whole season, Lang and Kovalev had times out of the lineup.

Team missed the playoffs that year, the lost revenue from that made it impossible to compete with the money being offered to Kaspar and Lang (who both got $5 mill per year remember).

At that point why not tear it down and start again.

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02-27-2004, 04:15 PM
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Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Bear
Here's an idea, why don't we just give the best draft picks to rich teams. Perfect plan. Financially concious teams would suck in perpetuity, and wealthy teams would have the best players, best prospects, best everything.

I find this comment to be worded very strangely. The wealthy teams ARE the financially conscious teams. The guilty party and " financially unconscious teams" are the poor ones.

I do not understand why so many people have a problem getting this.

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02-27-2004, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
I have to disagree with this. Every single player you mentioned was in their prime when we traded them. Jagr was coming off 4 straight art rosses, kovalev and straka were both late twenties/early thirties. The only reason we traded them was financial reasons...not because we thought they weren't good or we couldn't win with them.

We got destroyed by Jersey in the Eastern Finals in 2001 not because we had bad stars...in fact we had around 4 goals a game since lemieux's return. We got beat because they had an amazing system that just picked apart our creativity and talent. We had NO system, NO coaching, and NO defense. That's why we lost.
I didn't mean to imply that the stars were bad or playing poorly or anything, just that the Pens should have moved them before they did, because they probably could have gotten better return.

But they chose to go with what they knew, and try to win a Cup.

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02-27-2004, 04:20 PM
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Luigi Lemieux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I find this comment to be worded very strangely. The wealthy teams ARE the financially conscious teams. The guilty party and " financially unconscious teams" are the poor ones.

I do not understand why so many people have a problem getting this.
the wealthy teams are washington, st. louis, nyr, etc, and a lot of them are losing a TON of money. i don't see how you can call them the financially conscious teams. rangers and financially conscious should not be in the same sentence unless it reads "rangers are not financially conscious".

oilers, pens, and the likes are the cost conscious ones. Out of all the teams losing money, the pens are losing the least. If they are not cost conscious they will be gone in no time.

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02-27-2004, 06:20 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
anything, it will take atleast five years for them to rebuild penguines, and thats if everything works out in terms of drafting great talent, but if they were to Trade Ovechkin just as they were becoming playoff contender whats the use, as he demands high salary, they start back at square one, go from being playoff calibre team to being Bottom feeders once again, and as you guessed they get another first pick and maybe another star player, but guess what this circle just won't end until they learn to atleast keep their own players.
The hope is, of course, that there is some kind of fiscal sanity with a new CBA. If not, the Penguins certainly won't be the only team in that kind of a cycle.

I don't think it should be a problem. It's not even a guarantee that Ovechkin (or Malkin for that matter) will be able to demand millions in bonuses after a CBA. And even if they do, a CBA might lower the market value of all of the other players under contract with the Penguins. The Orpiks and Koltsovs might end up taking a cut in pay from their original entry level contracts as first rounders. Hopefully.

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