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2008-2009 Practice Notes/Injury updates

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Old
10-14-2008, 01:43 PM
  #1
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2008-2009 Practice Notes/Injury updates

Boucher and Ott missed practice today.


Last edited by ________: 10-14-2008 at 01:51 PM.
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10-14-2008, 02:29 PM
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Here are the lines from Tuesday, 10-14:

Quote:
Forwards

Morrow-Ribeiro-Eriksson
Brunnstrom-Richards-Avery
Neal-Modano-Crombeen
Lundqvist-Petersen-Barch

Defensemen
Grossman-Robidas
Daley-Fistric
Fistric-Janik
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/inde...ay/322-2008-09

I assume Mark intended to say that Daley and Niskanen were paired togeter. Also, Brunnstrom will make his NHL debut tomorrow against the Preds. Finally, Lehtinen did not practice with the team and is listed as doubtful.

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10-14-2008, 02:35 PM
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aisforaaron83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ________ View Post
Boucher and Ott missed practice today.
I didn't think they were hurt. Is there something larger happening?

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10-14-2008, 02:53 PM
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Morrow-Ribeiro-Eriksson
Brunnstrom-Richards-Avery
Neal-Modano-Crombeen
Lundqvist-Petersen-Barch

Without a doubt my favorite line combination so far!

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Old
10-14-2008, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Morrow-Ribeiro-Eriksson
Brunnstrom-Richards-Avery
Finally, what I've been clamoring for! I'll take all the blame if this lineup doesn't destroy Nashville tomorrow.

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10-14-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aisforaaron83
I didn't think they were hurt. Is there something larger happening?
I'm guessing both have soreness and they want to check things out to make sure it's nothing serious.

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10-14-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Here are the lines from Tuesday, 10-14:



http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/inde...ay/322-2008-09

I assume Mark intended to say that Daley and Niskanen were paired togeter. Also, Brunnstrom will make his NHL debut tomorrow against the Preds. Finally, Lehtinen did not practice with the team and is listed as doubtful.
Yeah, I screwed that up. It was Niskanen and Daley.

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10-14-2008, 03:46 PM
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Boucher and Ott missed practice today.
Well who saw that coming! This guy needs to be traded in the worst way.

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10-14-2008, 04:15 PM
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any news on Lehtinen?

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10-15-2008, 01:29 PM
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Lehtinen should miss at least the next 2 games (Tonight vs. Nashville and tomorrow at St. Louis).

Quote:
Jere Lehtinen (groin) also skated and looked good. He will not play tonight, and he said he still has a ways to go. While he might go with the team to St. Louis on Thursday and skate there, my guess is he will not play in that game, either.

http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/arch...rom-is-in.html

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Old
10-17-2008, 07:25 PM
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From Heika at DMN:

Current Lines:
Quote:
Morrow-Richards-Brunnstrom
Ott/Neal-Modano-Crombeen
Avery-Ribeiro-Eriksson
Lundqvist-Petersen/Ott-Barch
Also, Lehtinen skated, but he left the ice early. Heika doesn't believe he will play. He said Ott looked good out there, but I really hope that Neal or Petersen aren't scratched. I know Barch played well, but come on.

Also, you should count on Turco starting. Tippett said he wants Turco to play himself out of his funk.

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10-19-2008, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Also, you should count on Turco starting. Tippett said he wants Turco to play himself out of his funk.
Oh crudbunnies...the way y'all have been describing Turco's play lately, I don't think this is going to be the smartest decision in the world, Tippett.

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10-19-2008, 11:18 PM
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http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/arch...nt-travel.html

Well, Lehtinen will not make the New York trip. This will put him up to 8 games missed, and I believe if he misses 2 more, he can be placed on the LTIR retroactively. At least Dallas will get some cap relief. I just hope they can survive the next few without him.

Also, Janik made the trip. I feared that he might have had some broken facial bones, but they said he just needed stitches. I hope we get to see more of him. He played one of those 2 on 1's very well. The second he faced resulted in a goal, but how many times can you expect a guy to bail you (Modano ) out?

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10-20-2008, 09:56 AM
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any news on zubov? how much longer?

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Old
10-20-2008, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/arch...nt-travel.html

Well, Lehtinen will not make the New York trip. This will put him up to 8 games missed, and I believe if he misses 2 more, he can be placed on the LTIR retroactively. At least Dallas will get some cap relief. I just hope they can survive the next few without him.
The team could place Lehtinen on LTIR any time they want, they don't have to wait for him to miss 10 games. However, if he's put on LTIR, he's committed to missing 10 games. And putting him on LTIR wouldn't have any effect on the Stars cap right now. They aren't coming close to spending all the LTIR space created by Zubov. Any newly created space would have no effect on the teams cap and LTIR space does not get carried forward. It's use it or lose it every day. I could see them putting Lehtinen on LTIR if he was going to be out longer than Zubov, which as the days go by seems like it could become a reality.

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10-20-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by map94 View Post
The team could place Lehtinen on LTIR any time they want, they don't have to wait for him to miss 10 games. However, if he's put on LTIR, he's committed to missing 10 games. And putting him on LTIR wouldn't have any effect on the Stars cap right now. They aren't coming close to spending all the LTIR space created by Zubov. Any newly created space would have no effect on the teams cap and LTIR space does not get carried forward. It's use it or lose it every day. I could see them putting Lehtinen on LTIR if he was going to be out longer than Zubov, which as the days go by seems like it could become a reality.
Even if they decided to do put him on LTIR, they wouldn't really gain anything from it would they? They're not going to try to obtain someone with the newly created cap space since they would then be in a predicament once Zubov or Lehtinen (or both) return from the IR. The only way I see Lehtinen placed on LTIR is if he is still injured when Zubov is ready to play.

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10-20-2008, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by map94 View Post
The team could place Lehtinen on LTIR any time they want, they don't have to wait for him to miss 10 games. However, if he's put on LTIR, he's committed to missing 10 games. And putting him on LTIR wouldn't have any effect on the Stars cap right now. They aren't coming close to spending all the LTIR space created by Zubov. Any newly created space would have no effect on the teams cap and LTIR space does not get carried forward. It's use it or lose it every day. I could see them putting Lehtinen on LTIR if he was going to be out longer than Zubov, which as the days go by seems like it could become a reality.
I tried to read the CBA, and I guess I could have read it wrong, but I thought that the space they received from Zubov could only be used on a defenseman.

Here is what I thought it means, please correct me if I am wrong. For the time Zubov is hurt, Dallas can exceed the cap by a percentage of his salary, how many days he is out / total days in NHL season. If they don't use up all that space, they only get the salary of the defenseman replacing him. Therefore, Dallas' cap would become $56.7 million + a percentage of the salary of the defenseman replacing Zubov, whoever that is.

Zubov = $5.35 million
Fistric = $788,889
Assuming he misses 24 days: 24/186 = 12.9%
$5.35 million * 12.9% = $690,000
$788,889 * 12.9% = $101,767

Therefore Dallas' cap should be: $56,801,767

I didn't think Dallas was able to use the extra money, $690K-$101K, throughout the season. Therefore, if Lehtinen was place on LTIR, they could get a percentage of whoever "replaced him", maybe Neal, added to their cap.

Does that make sense, and is it right? I just donít know how it works exactly, but it didnít sound like Dallas gets the full value of the time Zubov misses while he is gone. Even if they do, which would be great, why not just put Lehtinen on LTIR, assuming he misses 10 games, and benefit from even more cap space.

If what map94 says is correct, wouldnít that mean Dallasí cap would increase by $1,206,000 if both Lehtinen and Zubov were on LTIR for a minimum of 24 days.

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10-20-2008, 01:13 PM
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Okay, I just went and looked at the CBA again, and the injured player's salary, Zubov, has nothing to do with any of this. Their salary counts against the cap no matter what. The only thing the CBA addresses is the salary and bonuses of the player(s) replacing the injured player.

Quote:
[If the] Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additional Player or Players to its Active Roster, and the replacement Player Salary and Bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and exceeding the Upper Limit
Quote:
The Player Salary and Bonuses of the Player that has been deemed unfit-to-play shall continue to be counted toward the Club's Average Club Salary
To me, that sounds like the Stars had to designate a player as the replacement player. I assume it could not be someone they would have considered for the opening day roster (i.e. Philippe Boucher and his $2.5 million salary can't be the replacement player), but it doesn't exactly say that. Therefore, I think either Janik or Fistric's salary would determine how much the Stars could go over the cap. Even the examples in the CBA factor the injured player's salary has part of the Average Club Salary, then they add the replacement player's salary to that.

I couldn't find it spelled out that a player could only be replaced by someone from the same position, but I assume the leage would require it.

Also, I think I remember Mark at Andrew's and Heika with the DMN saying that the a player has to miss 24 days OR 10 games to be considered for the LTIR, but that is not what the CBA says.

Quote:
the Player will be unfit to play for at least twenty-four (24) calendar games AND ten (10) NHL Regular Season games
I believe the 24th day of the season is November 1st, assuming the season started on October 9th and not with the games in Europe. Therefore, Zubov would have to miss the Stars game on the 1st making it 12 total games missed.


Last edited by BigG44: 10-20-2008 at 01:33 PM.
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Old
10-20-2008, 02:34 PM
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According to nhlscap.com...

Quote:
For players that the team has filed an LTI exception, the team is allowed to exceed the cap by up to the amount of the injured player's salary with as many replacement players as needed...
http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm#article_50.10

So, I don't think there are any formal player designations or positions put in place here. I'm pretty sure the Stars could use Zubov's LTI money to call up a third goalie if they needed to due to an injury.

I'm calculating the Star's cap spend in a spreadsheet. They get $56.7M/186 to spend per day, which comes to $304,839. Zubov and the other 23 roster players add up to $309,922, so the Stars are using $5,084 of LTI money per day Zubov's daily salary is $28,763, so they could spend over $23k more per day if needed. So, if Zubov is activated after 24 days, the stars effective cap for the year would be $56.7M plus 24 time $5,084 or $56,822,016.

I've found it's pretty hard to track the cap unless you break it down daily and it gets really complicated. I've been tweaking my spreadsheet for the last year and I still find errors in my formulas occasionally.

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10-20-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by map94 View Post
According to nhlscap.com...



http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm#article_50.10

So, I don't think there are any formal player designations or positions put in place here. I'm pretty sure the Stars could use Zubov's LTI money to call up a third goalie if they needed to due to an injury.

I'm calculating the Star's cap spend in a spreadsheet. They get $56.7M/186 to spend per day, which comes to $304,839. Zubov and the other 23 roster players add up to $309,922, so the Stars are using $5,084 of LTI money per day Zubov's daily salary is $28,763, so they could spend over $23k more per day if needed. So, if Zubov is activated after 24 days, the stars effective cap for the year would be $56.7M plus 24 time $5,084 or $56,822,016.

I've found it's pretty hard to track the cap unless you break it down daily and it gets really complicated. I've been tweaking my spreadsheet for the last year and I still find errors in my formulas occasionally.
Has the CBA been amended since 2005? That is the one I read. If not, the CBA doesn't match Irish Blues site. I usually go with anything IB says, but that is not what the 2005 CBA states. That quote from IB also only states "up to" the players salary.

Quote:
[If the] Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additional Player or Players to its Active Roster, and the replacement Player Salary and Bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and exceeding the Upper Limit
EDIT: That link you provided actually backs up what I said, but it does say that the team can use any combination of players they deem necessary as long as they don't exceed the injured players salary.

From IB's site:
Quote:
For players that the team has filed an LTI exception, the team is allowed to exceed the cap by up to the amount of the injured player's salary with as many replacement players as needed, provided that when the injured player is activated the team comes into compliance with the cap immediately. The team does not get to automatically tack on the amount of the injured player's salary to the Upper Limit - an example as illustrated in Article 50.10(d) of the CBA illustrates this point:
This part basically says that if the cap is $50 million, the team has a cap hit of $40 million, and the injured player has a hit of $5 million then the team's cap is not pushed to $55 million. It only addresses injuries that push a team over the limit.

Later though, IB says:
Quote:
Relief toward the salary cap only comes if replacing an injured player's salary would push the team over the cap
So it's not that Zubov's salary puts the Stars over the cap, it is the players replacing him. So who did the Stars designate as the replacement players. I guess they could have said Fistric and Neal.

If a team is at the cap, $56.7 million, and a $5 million player is hurt but he is only replace with 2 players that make $1.5 million collectively the cap relief would not be $5 million according to IB or the CBA.

I do see now that Lehtinen going on LTIR would only matter if Zubov gets healthy first.


Last edited by BigG44: 10-20-2008 at 03:05 PM.
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10-20-2008, 03:28 PM
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I hope you don't think I'm trying to argue with you map94. I just really want to understand.

Would you agree with this:

The reason Dallas did not have Janik, Fistric, and Neal on the opening roster is because they are the "replacement" players that the CBA and IB mentioned. Why else would Janik have ever been placed on waivers because his salary would not have put the Stars over the Average Club Salary of $56.7 million. In fact, any one of those three could have been left on the roster and Dallas would have been under $56.7 million. By having all 3 called up after Zubov was placed on LTIR, it would make sense that they are the replacement players, and their salary earned while Zubov is injured could exceed the cap.

Before Janik, Fistric, and Neal added to the roster:
Dallas Forwards = $35,875,000 (Morrow, Ribeiro, Lehtinen, Avery, Brunnstrom, Richards, Eriksson, Ott, Modano, Crombeen, Lundqvist, Petersen, Barch)
Dallas Defenseman = $13,475,000 (Zubov, Niskanen, Daley, Boucher, Grossman, Robidas)
Dallas Goalies = $6,185,000

Dallas Cap Hit = $55,535,000

With Zubov on LTIR, the cap hit of Janik, Fistric, and Neal = $2,110,556.

If Zubov misses the minimum of 24 days, 24 days / 186 NHL days = 12.9%

Dallas cannot use more than 12.9% of Zubov's salary to replace him = $690,322

Dallas is only using 12.9% of $2,110,556 to replace him = $272,330

Therefore, once Zubov is healthy, Dallas' cap never be more than $272,322 over the limit, or at $56,972,322.

What do you think?

If this is correct, if Dallas just sent Fistric down to the AHL when Zubov is healthy, they would have a cap hit of $56,856,667. They could create even more space by sending the 14th forward, whoever that is, to the AHL as well. Assuming it was Barch, their cap hit for the year would be $56,355,860.

Barch = $575,000
Barch Salary * 87.1% = $500,807
**Dallas is on the hook for Barch's salary at the beginning of the year.

$56,856,667 - $500,807 = $56,355,860


Last edited by BigG44: 10-20-2008 at 03:37 PM.
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Old
10-20-2008, 04:40 PM
  #22
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I enjoy the discussion and believe me, I understand it's a confusing one. So don't worry about any arguments.

The main mistake I believe you're making is that the team would get 12.9% of $2,110,556. They would only get 12.9% of the amount of the salaries that put them over the cap ($945,556*24/186) which would be $122,007 making their adjusted cap ceiling $56,822,007 (my number in the post above of $56,822,016 was off because I rounded the daily LTIR number). So, when the team actives Zubov, it will take more than just sending Fistric down to get cap compliant.

I would assume when Lehtinen is healthy, the 14th forward goes down, although this doesn't have to happen until Zubov come off LTIR (since they're over the cap anyhow). I would guess Barch at this point. I would be disappointed if they send anyone else down.

As far as Janik, I thought I read that the team waived him because they had a trade lined up for another d-man that fell through. So I don't think it's safe to assume his waiver was part of their cap issues. I would assume Fistric and Neal were sent to OKC so the team would be under the cap. They were then recalled as replacements for Zubov. Neither player needed waivers. They could have just sent down Brunnstrom by himself and then recalled him, but he might have got lost on the way to OKC.

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10-23-2008, 08:35 PM
  #23
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Les Jackson was on the Islanders broadcast during the end of the second, Lehtinen will be out two or three more weeks and Zubov is a week away.

*Note I didn't hear when Jackson was on at the end of the second period, only when Billy Jaffe mentinoed it early in the third period that Les Jackson was on then mentioned about the two injury updates.


Last edited by ________: 10-24-2008 at 04:48 PM.
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10-23-2008, 08:58 PM
  #24
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Les Jackson was on the Islanders broadcast during the end of the second, Lehtinen will be out two or three more weeks and Zubov is a week away.
Completely opposite of what Ralph said on NHL Live earlier in the week (Wednesday I think).

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10-23-2008, 09:00 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
Completely opposite of what Ralph said on NHL Live earlier in the week (Wednesday I think).
Well, I didn't hear either, but I bet Jackson has a little more inside info then Ralph.

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