Mike, Giroux has a goal in 2 games with the Phantoms. He's also a -3.
It is disappointing because we had expected him to fill Umberger's role, and really, how could you do any worse than 13 goals in our top 6? If he had been able to step into the right wing slot beside either Briere or Richards, we were set in terms of three scoring lines that seemed solid and should gel rather quickly.
Mike, Giroux has a goal in 2 games with the Phantoms. He's also a -3.
It is disappointing because we had expected him to fill Umberger's role, and really, how could you do any worse than 13 goals in our top 6? If he had been able to step into the right wing slot beside either Briere or Richards, we were set in terms of three scoring lines that seemed solid and should gel rather quickly.
Trade Knuble for a defenceman like Aucoin or Kaberle
then...
Gagne Richards Lupul-----1A
Hartnell Carter Birere-----1B
Upshal Metro Downie----Checking Line
Asham Ross Cote ----4th Line
Kaberle/Aucoin Timmonen----1st Pairing
Cobourn Vaanen------2nd Pairing
Jones Eminger -----3rd Pairing
Trade Knuble for a defenceman like Aucoin or Kaberle
then...
Gagne Richards Lupul-----1A
Hartnell Carter Birere-----1B
Upshal Metro Downie----Checking Line
Asham Ross Cote ----4th Line
Kaberle/Aucoin Timmonen----1st Pairing
Cobourn Vaanen------2nd Pairing
Jones Eminger -----3rd Pairing
kaberle and aucoin kind of remind me of vandermeer, veteran defensemen who might not be able to handle top pairing duties. we really need to acquire a legitimate 2nd pairing player so we can put coburn back with timonen.
I'm not going to come out and say the Briere wing thing has been a complete failure yet.
Couple options.
1) Put Carter with some frickin decent linemates for godsake's. Upshall is a great 3rd liner, iffy 2nd liner. Knuble just flat-out sucks.
I would like to at least experiment with Hartnell-Carter-Lupul.
2) Put Briere on Carter's wing. I'm not totally sold on this idea, but it might work.
Gagne-Richards-Lupul
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
I mean, I think it's stupid to write off the Briere-wing experiment because of one missed coverage and because of the fact that we play the patented "chickens with their heads cut off" system.
My main problem right now is the gross abuse of Hartnell and Lupul. Neither of them has done jack **** at even strength because they're not being put in positions to succeed.
3) Metro is a great 3rd line C, but he's not a guy who centers 60 point players.
Gagne-Richards-Briere (75-90 point players with some luck)
Hartnell-Carter-Lupul (55-65 point players).
Upshall-Metro-Downie (25-40 point players).
Asham-Knuble-Cote (won't do much, I wouldn't mind giving Ross another look-see at 4th line C)
That way, you have guys who are good offensively on the same lines. I know this is an incredible concept, but bear with me.
Right now, we're doing...
Gagne-Richards-Briere (same)
Upshall-Carter-Knuble (a great C with a 3rd line LW and a 4th line RW)
Hartnell-Lupul-Downie (don't even ask me about this cluster****, I was against it from the beginning).
Asham-Metro-Cote (decent 3rd line C playing 6 minutes a game).
So this ****up of a line situation has us MINIMIZING the effectiveness of 1) Jeff Carter 2) Scott Hartnell 3) Joffrey Lupul 4) Glen Metropolit.
I love how Metropolit gets demoted to 7 mins a night because Stevens realizes that he can't play with 60 point guys, I could have told him that 3 months ago.
I mean, this is just blatantly obvious, but Stevens is not putting our guys in an optimal position to succeed which is exactly what a coach's job is.
Knuble can be traded for a d-man or picks or prospects, I don't care at this point.
One of the biggest problems is lack of cohesiveness among the forwards. Playing two of them in the top 6 out of their natural positions (Hartnell and Downie), especially with one of them being a rookie, isn't going to help things any.
If you want Briere and Gagne together, then switch Hartnell and Lupul (and put everyone at their proper positions). It's not absolutely necessary to have a sniper, playmaker, and power forward on your first line. This isn't NHL 09.
One of the biggest problems is lack of cohesiveness among the forwards. Playing two of them in the top 6 out of their natural positions (Hartnell and Downie), especially with one of them being a rookie, isn't going to help things any.
If you want Briere and Gagne together, then switch Hartnell and Lupul (and put everyone at their proper positions). It's not absolutely necessary to have a sniper, playmaker, and power forward on your first line. This isn't NHL 09.
In hockey, the difference between LW and RW is preference, and minimal. However, the difference between C and the wing is MASSIVE.
How would switching Hartnell and Lupul Help??? In the lines you quoted, they are both set up at RW.
You have seen instances where Gagne comes up on the right haven't you? This means Hartnell would come up the left, and while I feel Hartnell might be more effective on the left side, I don't like any of our RW with Gagne-Briere and I feel Hartnell could play that spot effectively. I believe he has experience on the right side anyway.
So this ****up of a line situation has us MINIMIZING the effectiveness of 1) Jeff Carter 2) Scott Hartnell 3) Joffrey Lupul 4) Glen Metropolit.
I love how Metropolit gets demoted to 7 mins a night because Stevens realizes that he can't play with 60 point guys, I could have told him that 3 months ago.
I mean, this is just blatantly obvious, but Stevens is not putting our guys in an optimal position to succeed which is exactly what a coach's job is.
theres nothing great about metropolit. if the flyers have the ability to have three scoring lines than metro serves no purpose.
last year stevens had the same problem with knuble on gagne and briere's line and he fixed it. lets not right him off so soon.
In hockey, the difference between LW and RW is preference, and minimal. However, the difference between C and the wing is MASSIVE.
How would switching Hartnell and Lupul Help??? In the lines you quoted, they are both set up at RW.
You have seen instances where Gagne comes up on the right haven't you? This means Hartnell would come up the left, and while I feel Hartnell might be more effective on the left side, I don't like any of our RW with Gagne-Briere and I feel Hartnell could play that spot effectively. I believe he has experience on the right side anyway.
I guess you missed the part where I said put everyone at their proper positions, which means Hartnell on the left and Downie on the right (forming a successful line from last season).
I guess you missed the part where I said put everyone at their proper positions, which means Hartnell on the left and Downie on the right (forming a successful line from last season).
I posted this, please show me how you move Hartnell and Downie with these lines and make them sucessful
Gagne-Briere-Hartnell
Downie-Richards-Lupul
Upshall-Carter-Giroux
Cote-Metro-Asham/Knuble
If you move Hartnell left, you either break up Richards and Lupul or you put Giroux or Downie in a top line slot. I mean, I could live with
but I really like the idea of Hartnell working for pucks along the boards and feeding Gagne and Briere while Upshall-Carter-Giroux is a young, fast line.
Downie-Richards-Lupul looks weird, but Downie can fight for pucks and his speed has improved. Richards feeds Lupul and Richards is Cannon. This line can work.
I like the balance of a shooter, passer and grinder/pwf together, but I do like the Gagne-Richards-Briere line, it just limits the rest of the team, apparently.
I posted this, please show me how you move Hartnell and Downie with these lines and make them sucessful
Gagne-Briere-Hartnell
Downie-Richards-Lupul
Upshall-Carter-Giroux
Cote-Metro-Asham/Knuble
If you move Hartnell left, you either break up Richards and Lupul or you put Giroux or Downie in a top line slot. I mean, I could live with
but I really like the idea of Hartnell working for pucks along the boards and feeding Gagne and Briere while Upshall-Carter-Giroux is a young, fast line.
Downie-Richards-Lupul looks weird, but Downie can fight for pucks and his speed has improved. Richards feeds Lupul and Richards is Cannon. This line can work.
I like the balance of a shooter, passer and grinder/pwf together, but I do like the Gagne-Richards-Briere line, it just limits the rest of the team, apparently.
I should have just posted what I meant when responding to you initially (I'm in class and trying to do this between notes, just thought it'd be faster the way I said it).
Gagne Briere Lupul
Hartnell Richards Downie (the line I was referring to - successful last year)
Upshall Carter Knuble
Cote Metropolit Asham
Something I thought of recently and you just posted something similar, it's just too bad Giroux had a bad pre-season:
Gagne Briere Giroux (again, don't always need a power forward, the skill level is very high and scary for other teams)
Hartnell Richards Lupul
Upshall Carter Knuble
Cote Downie Asham
Metropolit was not needed.
But, Giroux doesn't look like an option so we'll go with my first suggestion. The only "unknown" in that lineup is how Lupul fits with Gagne and Briere. Lines 2 and 3 are known commodities and I think that's important at this point.
theres nothing great about metropolit. if the flyers have the ability to have three scoring lines than metro serves no purpose.
last year stevens had the same problem with knuble on gagne and briere's line and he fixed it. lets not right him off so soon.
The 3 line thing is way overrated.
Gagne-Richards-Briere: elite line, outside of a possible Malkin-Crosby combo, the Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Hossa one, and the Ottawa one, can you name me 5 better lines right now in the NHL?
Hartnell-Carter-Lupul: okay, not elite, but I can think of nearly 25 teams that would be very, very happy with that 2nd line. That line (assuming system) would absolutely dominate on the forecheck and both those guys can keep up with Carter.
Upshall-Metro-Downie: This is a pretty darn good line IMO. Upshall definitely has 20 goal potential and both Metro and Downie can chip in 10-15. Maybe it doesn't have the sexiness of a line centered by Richie, Carter, or Briere, but I think they would get the job done. My main worry would actually be size, but Downie is a beast down low and the new NHL is becoming a smaller league.
Personally I'd rather roll out a marquee top-5 scoring line, a very good 2nd line, and a decent 3rd line instead of 3 good lines, but that's just me.
I should have just posted what I meant when responding to you initially (I'm in class and trying to do this between notes, just thought it'd be faster the way I said it).
Gagne Briere Lupul
Hartnell Richards Downie (the line I was referring to - successful last year)
Upshall Carter Knuble
Cote Metropolit Asham
Something I thought of recently and you just posted something similar, it's just too bad Giroux had a bad pre-season:
Gagne Briere Giroux (again, don't always need a power forward, the skill level is very high and scary for other teams)
Hartnell Richards Lupul
Upshall Carter Knuble
Cote Downie Asham
Metropolit was not needed.
But, Giroux doesn't look like an option so we'll go with my first suggestion. The only "unknown" in that lineup is how Lupul fits with Gagne and Briere. Lines 2 and 3 are known commodities and I think that's important at this point.
Good post man.
(on your second suggestion) I would put metro on the 4th line and move Downie to RW on the Upshall-Carter line as I think Knuble can be put out to pasture and that he will not contribute to that line this season like he did last season.
I don't like your first suggest as much though. Lupul on top line is a ? and Knuble needs to go.
(on your second suggestion) I would put metro on the 4th line and move Downie to RW on the Upshall-Carter line as I think Knuble can be put out to pasture and that he will not contribute to that line this season like he did last season.
I don't like your first suggest as much though. Lupul on top line is a ? and Knuble needs to go.
I can live with Upshall-Carter-Downie and your suggested 4th line. Only problem with Downie playing there is the speed. Carter and Upshall are crazy fast. Even though Downie's speed is improving, he's still much slower than they are.
Yeah, Knuble needs to go, I'm just thinking about what's out there now. If we start talking trades, we can get all sorts of crazy in terms of combinations.
I do agree about Lupul on the first line. However, here is my train of thought: Richards played well with Hartnell and Downie. Carter plays well with Upshall and even though Knuble sucks, they've had success together. Briere and Gagne have chemistry. That leaves Lupul. Where does he go? He's got the talent to be a first line winger, it's just a matter of chemistry.
I can live with Upshall-Carter-Downie and your suggested 4th line. Only problem with Downie playing there is the speed. Carter and Upshall are crazy fast. Even though Downie's speed is improving, he's still much slower than they are.
Yeah, Knuble needs to go, I'm just thinking about what's out there now. If we start talking trades, we can get all sorts of crazy in terms of combinations.
I do agree about Lupul on the first line. However, here is my train of thought: Richards played well with Hartnell and Downie. Carter plays well with Upshall and even though Knuble sucks, they've had success together. Briere and Gagne have chemistry. That leaves Lupul. Where does he go? He's got the talent to be a first line winger, it's just a matter of chemistry.
Is Knuble any faster then Downie at this point? I mean, I know Downie is slow, and that even though he is quicker this season, he is still slow, but is Knuble really faster???
Trade Knuble for a defenceman like Aucoin or Kaberle
then...
Gagne Richards Lupul-----1A
Hartnell Carter Birere-----1B
Upshal Metro Downie----Checking Line
Asham Ross Cote ----4th Line
Kaberle/Aucoin Timmonen----1st Pairing
Cobourn Vaanen------2nd Pairing
Jones Eminger -----3rd Pairing
Which Kaberle do you mean? If you mean Thomas I hope you know it would cost way more than Knuble, in fact I don't know that the Leafs would want Knuble at all. If it's Frantisek I don't know that I would bother nor am I sure that the Canes would want to move him. And from what I've heard and seen I want no part of Aucoin he's lost a few steps.
Is Knuble any faster then Downie at this point? I mean, I know Downie is slow, and that even though he is quicker this season, he is still slow, but is Knuble really faster???
That's a fair point. I guess the overriding factor if you want to say their speed is even is the chemistry Knuble had with Carter previously, and the fact that Knuble started slow last year and there's a hope he'll pick things up eventually.
knuble moves with briere and gagne
richards centering downie and hartnell
carter centering upshall and lupul
I like these moves. Richards and Gagne have been the only forwards I thought were concistantly good so far. I know some are hesitant to break them up, but I'm hoping that they'll be able to help bring that energy to two lines rather than just having the one good one. Briere and Gagne have show to have chemisty so I think they'll still be good together. Though most seem to agree that Knuble isn't as good as he was, he has played well with Gagne in the past so hopefully he can pick it up. Richards has played well with Hartnell in the past (though I think almost everyone played with Richards last year and looked good doing it). I think that line should be able to forcheck really well. As for Carter I like him with Upshall and always have, and Knuble just didn't look good with him, hopefully Carter and Lupul can find some magic.
Knuble's going to drag down anyone he's put with. I'm sure this is only experiment #2 of 30 before we start to win again.
It's ****ing stupid, I'm a poor IR student with no hockey family background or anything and I can tell you right now that the combo isn't going to work, but our genius of a coach can't.
Which Kaberle do you mean? If you mean Thomas I hope you know it would cost way more than Knuble, in fact I don't know that the Leafs would want Knuble at all. If it's Frantisek I don't know that I would bother nor am I sure that the Canes would want to move him. And from what I've heard and seen I want no part of Aucoin he's lost a few steps.
The Canes one. Their fans and papers keep stating one of their defenceman with Kaberle being the favourite to be moved. With an excess of defenceman for their top 6 and injuries to forward they have interest in a short term forward. I think hes a good player to get for Knuble straight up, i mean what else is there?
