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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
02-27-2004, 11:22 AM
  #1
micdan
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leafs_go for it

Everyboby talks about not giving up the future, I would go for it now not wait for our young star to get better,theyall could be a bust. How many prospects have blossom in t.o in the past 10 years, zero. I would trade antrpove in a heart beat,he skates way to slow and he's always injurd, he'll be out of the nhl in 2 years. As for the porpecst ,who cares. Toronto can always build thru the UFA. so go get Gonchar,Carrny and Oli. Sell the farm, it ain't producing much any way.

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02-27-2004, 11:24 AM
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Russian_fanatic
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Shows how much you know about hockey ... Who cares about Crosby .... Who cares about Zetterberg .... Who cares about Micheal Ryder .... You're an idiot if you think that you can build a team around UFAs' .

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02-27-2004, 11:28 AM
  #3
joe blow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micdan
Everyboby talks about not giving up the future, I would go for it now not wait for our young star to get better,theyall could be a bust. How many prospects have blossom in t.o in the past 10 years, zero. I would trade antrpove in a heart beat,he skates way to slow and he's always injurd, he'll be out of the nhl in 2 years. As for the porpecst ,who cares. Toronto can always build thru the UFA. so go get Gonchar,Carrny and Oli. Sell the farm, it ain't producing much any way.
Are you sure you aren't just a Rangers fan in disguise? This is the most asenine thing I have ever heard! Building a good team is about a mixture of youth and veterans, defence and offence, and many other aspects that compose a strong hockey club.

To think you will simply go out and waive some money at players (or prospects at teams who have these players) is way off base. Undoubtedly you do need some key free-agents, but by simply trading for marquee players at the deadline you are just formulating a recipe for failure.

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02-27-2004, 11:47 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by joe blow
Are you sure you aren't just a Rangers fan in disguise? This is the most asenine thing I have ever heard! Building a good team is about a mixture of youth and veterans, defence and offence, and many other aspects that compose a strong hockey club.

To think you will simply go out and waive some money at players (or prospects at teams who have these players) is way off base. Undoubtedly you do need some key free-agents, but by simply trading for marquee players at the deadline you are just formulating a recipe for failure.
What you say is true to a sense but this is the HockeysFuture board and thus prospects and picks are in general rated higher, and often much higher, than they are by the actual GM's making the moves. Around here pretty much every prospect is going to reach his full potential and become a great player, but in reality we all know that isn't going to happen, many won't become much of anything.

I think people need to remember that some times when others don't want to trade any of their top prospects for current stars, because in their eyes those top prospects are all going to be great players. The possibility of them not becoming great players rarely seems to enter the picture. But like I said, these are the HockeysFuture boards, so what would you expect?

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02-27-2004, 11:57 AM
  #5
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He's not totally off base, if you look at the team, 75% of the players will retire within the next two years. Problem with that? They will get nothing from it. You get little value for a 37 year old on his last legs. They have little in the way of real prospects (Cola and Steen are the only two who look above average) and continually trade away their top picks. So why not go for it? They have little future assets other than $$$$.

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02-27-2004, 12:08 PM
  #6
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Don't the Leafs have that strategy of building through UFAs anyways? They're not as bad as teh Rangers, true, but it's not like they've built up a really good farm base either. Quinn is a UFA/trades GM for the most part, and it depends what Ferguson wants to do with the team now.

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02-27-2004, 12:15 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Russian_fanatic
Shows how much you know about hockey ... Who cares about Crosby .... Who cares about Zetterberg .... Who cares about Micheal Ryder .... You're an idiot if you think that you can build a team around UFAs' .
have you looked at the wings? here are a list of high priced players that they acquired thru trades from teams that couldnt affort their pending ufa status and free agent signings.

joseph, hasek, chelios, hatcher, schnieder, hull, whitney, wooley...plus shanahan and draper that were acquired in trades. more of the wings prime players are guys they got because of the team bank account than they are shrude trades or home grown.

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02-27-2004, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
have you looked at the wings? here are a list of high priced players that they acquired thru trades from teams that couldnt affort their pending ufa status and free agent signings.

joseph, hasek, chelios, hatcher, schnieder, hull, whitney, wooley...plus shanahan and draper that were acquired in trades. more of the wings prime players are guys they got because of the team bank account than they are shrude trades or home grown.
Several of those weren't acquired through trades, just $$.

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02-27-2004, 01:25 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehc73
Don't the Leafs have that strategy of building through UFAs anyways? They're not as bad as teh Rangers, true, but it's not like they've built up a really good farm base either. Quinn is a UFA/trades GM for the most part, and it depends what Ferguson wants to do with the team now.
Just what youth did Pat Quinn trade? The only really significant deal I can think of is the Nolan deal. For the rest Quinn didn't have all that many assets to start with anyways, so it's now like he had much of a choice when he (partly) built the team through free agency...

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02-27-2004, 01:38 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
have you looked at the wings? here are a list of high priced players that they acquired thru trades from teams that couldnt affort their pending ufa status and free agent signings.

joseph, hasek, chelios, hatcher, schnieder, hull, whitney, wooley...plus shanahan and draper that were acquired in trades. more of the wings prime players are guys they got because of the team bank account than they are shrude trades or home grown.
Bottom line though - the CORE of the Detroit teams was built from within. Yzerman, Federov, Lidstrom all are superstars drafted and developed by the Wings. Add in trades (of other drafted & developed talent) that brought in guys like Shanahan, and smart UFA signings that supplemented the existing core (Hull, etc) and the Wings do it the right way.

Teams that try to build around UFA's typically go south. Rangers, Stars, etc.

Rich teams have the benefit of filling holes with expensive UFA's, but I can't think of a sucessful team that builds around UFA's.

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02-27-2004, 01:40 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
joseph, hasek, chelios, hatcher, schnieder, hull, whitney, wooley...plus shanahan and draper that were acquired in trades. more of the wings prime players are guys they got because of the team bank account than they are shrude trades or home grown.
Drapes was acquired for a Buck. Woolley was acquired for Futures. Chelios was acquired for wht turned out to be wasted picks and a defensive prospect who never did. Shanny was acquire for Kieth Primeau, Paul Coffey and a Pick

the wings also have McCarty, Lidstrom, Fischer, Yzerman, Datsyuk, Zetterburg, Holmstrom, Dandenault and next year will have Hudler, Kronwall, Perhaps Grigorenko. Thats thier core, and it has NOTHING to do with a bank account. They, unlike many teams, seem to drat acceptably enough and will pay their players to keep them and not be a building ground for other teams.

The wings have one of the highest amount of home grown talent on thier team. Of the players you listed, only Hatcher, Cujo, Hull and Whitney were SIGNED free agents.

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Old
02-27-2004, 01:58 PM
  #12
micdan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian_fanatic
Shows how much you know about hockey ... Who cares about Crosby .... Who cares about Zetterberg .... Who cares about Micheal Ryder .... You're an idiot if you think that you can build a team around UFAs' .

I think you got your head in the sand if you think that every one thats a prospect is going to be a star. How do you think the leafs became a good team,by trade or prospects, NO ufa, staring with Joseph!!!!!!!!!!May be there are a few young guns out there but you win for today ,not take a crap shoot and hope for tomorrow

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Old
02-27-2004, 02:12 PM
  #13
micdan
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Originally Posted by joe blow
Are you sure you aren't just a Rangers fan in disguise? This is the most asenine thing I have ever heard! Building a good team is about a mixture of youth and veterans, defence and offence, and many other aspects that compose a strong hockey club.

To think you will simply go out and waive some money at players (or prospects at teams who have these players) is way off base. Undoubtedly you do need some key free-agents, but by simply trading for marquee players at the deadline you are just formulating a recipe for failure.
The rangers had a good team on paper but the baby sitter(coach)=Sather didn't know how to change there diapers.Never thought Sather was a great coach, the Oilers of the 80s were a team any body could have took to the cup. Sather must go if the rangers are to be good.7 years and counting dosn't show me Sather is the geniuse that may hockey people make him out to be.

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02-27-2004, 02:18 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchLeafsfan
Just what youth did Pat Quinn trade? The only really significant deal I can think of is the Nolan deal. For the rest Quinn didn't have all that many assets to start with anyways, so it's now like he had much of a choice when he (partly) built the team through free agency...
Where did I say he was trading youth? I said he built through trades and UFA signings for the most part. His drafting record isn't that great either(mostly evidenced by the 11 years he spent as Vancouver's GM).
Toronto going through a rebuilding phase would turn into a lynching of the GM, you know that.

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02-27-2004, 02:22 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by micdan
Everyboby talks about not giving up the future, I would go for it now not wait for our young star to get better,theyall could be a bust....
Despite the criticism of RussianFan, your approach for Toronto (not every team) is 100% correct. And the Leafs will continue to go for it, as they should, much to the chagrin of those obsessed with collecting prospects while the NHL team is a serious contender for the Cup.

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02-27-2004, 03:16 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by micdan
Everyboby talks about not giving up the future, I would go for it now not wait for our young star to get better,theyall could be a bust. How many prospects have blossom in t.o in the past 10 years, zero. I would trade antrpove in a heart beat,he skates way to slow and he's always injurd, he'll be out of the nhl in 2 years. As for the porpecst ,who cares. Toronto can always build thru the UFA. so go get Gonchar,Carrny and Oli. Sell the farm, it ain't producing much any way.
wow....

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Old
02-27-2004, 04:40 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micdan
Everyboby talks about not giving up the future, I would go for it now not wait for our young star to get better,theyall could be a bust. How many prospects have blossom in t.o in the past 10 years, zero. I would trade antrpove in a heart beat,he skates way to slow and he's always injurd, he'll be out of the nhl in 2 years. As for the porpecst ,who cares. Toronto can always build thru the UFA. so go get Gonchar,Carrny and Oli. Sell the farm, it ain't producing much any way.
Hmmm, I see your an idiot.


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02-27-2004, 04:43 PM
  #18
micdan
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Originally Posted by Almothegreat
Hmmm, I see your an idiot.


Well their farm aren't even good enought to make the AHL playoff, So ypu can wait all you want cause your niave as a rubber puck.

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02-27-2004, 04:49 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by micdan
Well their farm aren't even good enought to make the AHL playoff, So ypu can wait all you want cause your niave as a rubber puck.
Hmmm, I see your an Idiot



I get your guys point but WOW. Toronto a a few prospects that are on the verge of making to big club, Leafs have alot of guys who wont be around forever, they will need some rookies to take their spots..

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02-27-2004, 05:03 PM
  #20
micdan
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Originally Posted by Almothegreat
Hmmm, I see your an Idiot



I get your guys point but WOW. Toronto a a few prospects that are on the verge of making to big club, Leafs have alot of guys who wont be around forever, they will need some rookies to take their spots..

I know but this is thier chance, T.O has waited long enough, worry about it after they make a run for it.

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02-27-2004, 06:20 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by micdan
I know but this is thier chance, T.O has waited long enough, worry about it after they make a run for it.
Well then they would need to worry about drafting 2-3 more years of prospects, then give them time to get ready, while they are doing that are they gonna play a bunch of $ Players like the Rangers have done?????

You want Toronto to do hte same as the Rangers? The Rangers sure are doing some good stuff these days.

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