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Old
10-17-2008, 11:03 PM
  #76
Mike8
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
27 goals to 40 is a huge jump for a player that can't hit the net on a consist basis. I never said Higgins doesn't have potential...he just doesn't have the potential to score 40.

Blinded by the light as usual.
I say Higgins can hit 40 maybe. Maybe. Maybe some time in his career. I think he can score 30 this year and do that more than a few times in his career.

I think you have a valid point, but your reasoning leaves something to be desired ... instead of criticizing people and called them blind, why not explain why you feel Higgins is not a 40-goal scorer?

Not hitting the net consistently isn't his problem. All good goal scorers miss the mark frequently. It's the fact that they're able to generate high quality scoring chances that makes them different; not necessarily their ability to capitalize and be opportunistic and make the most of each chance. You see Malkin take nine shots to get one goal, for example, or Kovalev hit three posts to get one goal.

Higgins is no different, and the fact that he generates the chances to lead the team in shots is something that ought to support a claim that Higgins could score 40 goals rather than detract from it, as you state it should.

Rather, I would say the reason why Higgins will find it tough to score 40 goals is one of, or several of, the following:

- he struggles to consistently bring the puck to the net. In fact, since Colin White injured him a season and a bit ago, I haven't seen Higgins do this throughout one entire game let alone do it consistently over weeks. He used to crash the net with some authority and frequency, and this would generate high quality scoring opportunities. Not so anymore.

- At times, I find Higgins struggles between roles: sound fundamentals and good D, or opportunistic offensive forward who slides behind the defense in transition offense, neglecting the D side of the game altogether in the hopes of stretching the opposition defense/gaining a fast break.

- Higgins, while an underrated puckhandler and puck distributor in my mind, isn't the most adept offensive talent. He's just not elite. He's better than most gave him credit for as a prospect, and I think he's more well-rounded than his reputation indicates here on HF, but overall he's just not elite.

That said, why I think he can hit 40 goals maybe some time:

- Hard, tenacious worker

- Fundamentals are sound. Knows that in order to score, one must shoot. And if one shoots with more frequency, they increase their chances to score. This is lost on many players, but not Higgins. And he is both smart enough and fast enough to get into shooting opportunities.

- He's strong. He can and will win board battles and get quick opportunities off the sideboards, then work for rebound opportunities.

- He's good in PP play, and on a PP team, that can result in a lot of goals.

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10-17-2008, 11:34 PM
  #77
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This topic is a good exemple of diferences between a good team and a bad team or a very ordinary team. On a ordinary or up and coming team a player like higgins is a sure bet. Higgins is the type of player you want to built u round because he has a good overall game. Hes good at every aspect of the game. Once a team finds it self and grows to become a top team a player like higgins often finds him self expendable because he is surondid with talent. There was a time were the habs had a lack of fire power up front and because of that higgins stood out from the rest of the pack. Now that we have become a top team we have so many options that higgins has become less attractive to some people. To me higgins serves a role on this team because he knows how to play the game and hes got good instincts. The game comes easy to him. This being said ordinary teams love players like higgins because he is a dependable player. Good teams allways look to ad that player that will make them even better and take them to that next level (pretty much a star player). One of the reasons his name comes up often in trade talks is because the habs have taken that next level and are an elite in the nhl. Higgins will pretty much come up in almost every trade talk because of the reputation he has u round the league. gainey job now that he built a winner is to make are team even better in order to reach its goal without given up elements that every one is looking fore. That is hard to do because in order to get some one you have to give some one.

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10-18-2008, 12:28 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
How you guys would have ever survived the 80's, I have no clue.

I mean, I was too young then, but when you look at players back then, guys like Gretzky would score 50 goals on 400 shots (not factual stat, just what I remember). I mean, there were a lot of guys firing the puck 300+ times and some of them wouldn't bury 50, they'd bury 30. There were some crazy shooters back then, and that wasn't with the defensive traps we have today. That's why goalies had such high GAA's back then, because they faced a barrage of shots and would eventually allow 3 or 4.

Higgins has a low shooting percentage due to the amount of shots he takes (11% last season) but I don't care how many chances he takes, as long as he buries. He buried 27 times. 27. That is, by no means, a bad number. Or even a good number. That's a great number. He was Top 50 last season in all NHL players. Better than Jagr. Better than St. Louis. Better than Zheredev. Better than Semin. Better than Getzlaf. Even with Horton. One goal less than Carter. Two goals less than Richards, Hossa and Dumont.

Think about that.

Read my whole post... This was in no way a Higgins bashing message.

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10-18-2008, 12:35 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Well here's the thing between Higgins vs Gaborik.

In terms of offense in the past two seasons...

GABORIK / HIGGINS

GM: 125/143
G: 72/49
A: 68/41
P: 140/90
TOI: 19:36/17:56


Im pretty sure we can all agree that Gaborik is much, MUCH better offensively than Higgins, and it isn't even close.

However, on the defensive side....

Giveaways: 116/37
Takeaways: 58/91
Blocked Shots: 25/101
Hits: 81/111


Higgins wipes the floor with Gaborik on the defensive side and in my opinion, Chris is very underrated in his own end.

Id rather keep Chris to be honest instead of moving him along with a prospect like McDonagh or Chipchura then take in Gaborik.
Where did you get your give away/takeaway stats? Wondering where, cuz I couldn't find them anywhere.

I don't get why people won't trade a prospect. You do not no whether they will turn out as a star or fail (ie: Wellwood, Daigle and many others).

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10-18-2008, 12:48 AM
  #80
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Erikas day:
/Search Hfboards for any mention of Higgins
/Search Harddrive for pre-written post #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre written Higgins post #3
Player x >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Higgins and it's not even close.

Enough Said!!
/Replace player A with todays topic ie Gaborik
/Copy and paste to HFboards
/Add Teach Smiley
/End Program

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10-18-2008, 12:59 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I say Higgins can hit 40 maybe. Maybe. Maybe some time in his career. I think he can score 30 this year and do that more than a few times in his career.

I think you have a valid point, but your reasoning leaves something to be desired ... instead of criticizing people and called them blind, why not explain why you feel Higgins is not a 40-goal scorer?

Not hitting the net consistently isn't his problem. All good goal scorers miss the mark frequently. It's the fact that they're able to generate high quality scoring chances that makes them different; not necessarily their ability to capitalize and be opportunistic and make the most of each chance. You see Malkin take nine shots to get one goal, for example, or Kovalev hit three posts to get one goal.

Higgins is no different, and the fact that he generates the chances to lead the team in shots is something that ought to support a claim that Higgins could score 40 goals rather than detract from it, as you state it should.

Rather, I would say the reason why Higgins will find it tough to score 40 goals is one of, or several of, the following:

- he struggles to consistently bring the puck to the net. In fact, since Colin White injured him a season and a bit ago, I haven't seen Higgins do this throughout one entire game let alone do it consistently over weeks. He used to crash the net with some authority and frequency, and this would generate high quality scoring opportunities. Not so anymore.

- At times, I find Higgins struggles between roles: sound fundamentals and good D, or opportunistic offensive forward who slides behind the defense in transition offense, neglecting the D side of the game altogether in the hopes of stretching the opposition defense/gaining a fast break.

- Higgins, while an underrated puckhandler and puck distributor in my mind, isn't the most adept offensive talent. He's just not elite. He's better than most gave him credit for as a prospect, and I think he's more well-rounded than his reputation indicates here on HF, but overall he's just not elite.

That said, why I think he can hit 40 goals maybe some time:

- Hard, tenacious worker

- Fundamentals are sound. Knows that in order to score, one must shoot. And if one shoots with more frequency, they increase their chances to score. This is lost on many players, but not Higgins. And he is both smart enough and fast enough to get into shooting opportunities.

- He's strong. He can and will win board battles and get quick opportunities off the sideboards, then work for rebound opportunities.

- He's good in PP play, and on a PP team, that can result in a lot of goals.
By hitting the net, I meant putting the puck into it.
Gaborik had more shots (37 more to be exact), played 5 less games, had 15 more goals, and 31 more points.
Everyone wanted Hossa last year, he pretty much had the same point total as Higgins but in less games played.
To win the Cup you need to risk, and seeing how there is a plethora of talent in the AHL and minors drafted by Montreal, losing Higgins in my eyes, to make a valid push for Lord Stanley, is fine by me, especially if Gaborik or any future "trade-ees" agree to pen to paper pre-trade.
The past 4 drafts the Canadiens have drafted
6 RW, 7 C, 1 LW, 14 D, 3 G. Everyone said the samething about Ryder. He has the potential to score 40 goals...well I'm still waiting and its been 4 years.
Like I said in my previous post, Higgins has talent, do I think he'll score 40? No, will he get close, maybe. Maybe Gaborik is what the Habs need in the post-season, he does have 22 pts in 29 games.

But like most people I think the habs need another D-man. I really don't like Brisebois, and really hoped Valentenko would have been called up.
Its really up to Gainey and his support staff so anyone can argue, but really won't matter.
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Originally Posted by CabbageLegs View Post
I believe some people just love to play devils advocate just to try and get a rise out of people here, redundant actually.
Maybe some people have a difference of opinion or are you a sheep and follow what everyone says and does?

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Old
10-18-2008, 01:01 AM
  #82
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This isn't a Higgins for Gaborik thread....

All the Higgins for Gaborik discussion should go in that thread... where the salary cap implications of the move have been examined.

In a cap world, its not just about Higgins vs Gaborik... its about contracts too... and the other players you will be unable to resign if you aquire Gaborik.

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10-18-2008, 06:55 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
By hitting the net, I meant putting the puck into it.
Gaborik had more shots (37 more to be exact), played 5 less games, had 15 more goals, and 31 more points.
There's a disparity between his stats & Higgins'? You don't say...thanks for the revelation. Here I was thinking Higgy was the superior player...

I should hope Gaborik has more shots than any of our 2nd liners. After all, everyone wanted to get the puck to the best player on Minnesota's team.

Why someone would take the time to find stats that state what's painfully obvious(that being Gaborik had a much better year than Higgins) is beyond me.


Last edited by Blades 0f Steel: 10-18-2008 at 07:03 AM.
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10-18-2008, 07:05 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
you people over-rate everyone just because they play for the Habs or have played for them.

Higgins has yet to crack the 30 goal mark, how about he does that 1st before you starting stating he has the potential to score 40.

Gaborik even injured scores more.
Gaborik has 30 or more goals 5 out of the 8 seasons he's played (he's in his 8Th season right now).
I am sorry to say this but your remark was very hypocritical because here you are doing same. We are not permitted to have an opinion either i see.

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10-18-2008, 07:43 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Haddock View Post
I think he partyed too much during the Festival de la galette de sarrasin!
That was last week and the one before btw But yeah i was really tired last night, what i meant is that some guys said he was a 4th liner at best when he first came into the NHL then he went on a crazy streak and i remember CKAC labeling him as a franchise player then he got injured, didnt get back strong and now he's a trade bait for pretty much everybody. Why going so high and so low on a guy in what 3 seasons?

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10-18-2008, 07:52 AM
  #86
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That was last week and the one before btw But yeah i was really tired last night, what i meant is that some guys said he was a 4th liner at best when he first came into the NHL then he went on a crazy streak and i remember CKAC labeling him as a franchise player then he got injured, didnt get back strong and now he's a trade bait for pretty much everybody. Why going so high and so low on a guy in what 3 seasons?
Very easy question. It's Montreal.

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10-18-2008, 07:54 AM
  #87
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Higgins is a keeper......ON PAPER. You might say "oh he has a good heart, he works hard, he's a complete player". But then I remember last year and all the hair pulling moments, all the deceptions, how disapointing he was and frankly it becomes easier when talking about trades to get a top player.

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10-18-2008, 08:44 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by plafleur10 View Post
I am getting sick and tired of the trade rumors involving Chris Higgins.

Canít the poor guy be left alone at once!

He supposedly had a bad season last year, but yet he potted 27 goals and with a little luck he would have scored 15 more, given all the opportunities he just missed.

Heís still young, has plenty of talent, skates like the wind, has tons of leadership, is responsible at both ends of the rink, enjoys Montreal, loves the Habs since heís young, never complains and is a great bargain at around 1.5 Million$.

With half our team going UFA at the end of the year, who in his right mind would trade a guy like this? On the contrary, he should be one of the cornerstones of our franchise for the next several years!

PS: BTW, all the above reasons are why the other teams in the league keep asking for him in any talks with the Habs!
You can't put too much weight on the HF die hards looking for something to talk about. Higgins is the type of player you'd have to pry pretty hard to get Gainey to move. I hope we can get him signed to an extension soon.

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10-18-2008, 08:54 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Higgins is a keeper......ON PAPER. You might say "oh he has a good heart, he works hard, he's a complete player". But then I remember last year and all the hair pulling moments, all the deceptions, how disapointing he was and frankly it becomes easier when talking about trades to get a top player.
I can't recall a single instance of Higgins creating deceptions. I don't think he was involved in the Tampa Bay incident for instance.

As for "disappointment", if you feel that his 27 goal season in his 3rd year in the league was so disappointing TO YOU that it becomes "easier" to get rid of him, this may be an indication of some psychological problems. Perhaps some professional help could assist you in finding out why you are so hard to please.

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10-18-2008, 09:09 AM
  #90
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Higgins traded to Minnesota - a very dumb move done by a desperate GM. It doesn't sound like BG. The only trade he really got hosed on was Ribiero - even that one looked better on paper. Minnesota has no leverage, Gaborik is going to LA at the end of the year. It's Hossa 2.0 and we didn't trade half of our young players (Pittsburgh) to get him and we made it to the conference final! The most I would give would be Fisher (and I like him), Webber (a lot of upside) or ....Latendresse? Gaborik won't be playing on the 2nd line - so where does latendresse fit? Even if Higgins gets traded, Latendresse won't be on the 1st line! Do we still do it? I didn't think so.

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10-18-2008, 09:30 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Erikas day:
/Search Hfboards for any mention of Higgins
/Search Harddrive for pre-written post #3

/Replace player A with todays topic ie Gaborik
/Copy and paste to HFboards
/Add Teach Smiley
/End Program

LOL!! Now that's funny!!

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10-18-2008, 11:06 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
By hitting the net, I meant putting the puck into it.
Gaborik had more shots (37 more to be exact), played 5 less games, had 15 more goals, and 31 more points.
Everyone wanted Hossa last year, he pretty much had the same point total as Higgins but in less games played.
To win the Cup you need to risk, and seeing how there is a plethora of talent in the AHL and minors drafted by Montreal, losing Higgins in my eyes, to make a valid push for Lord Stanley, is fine by me, especially if Gaborik or any future "trade-ees" agree to pen to paper pre-trade.
The past 4 drafts the Canadiens have drafted
6 RW, 7 C, 1 LW, 14 D, 3 G. Everyone said the samething about Ryder. He has the potential to score 40 goals...well I'm still waiting and its been 4 years.
Like I said in my previous post, Higgins has talent, do I think he'll score 40? No, will he get close, maybe. Maybe Gaborik is what the Habs need in the post-season, he does have 22 pts in 29 games.

But like most people I think the habs need another D-man. I really don't like Brisebois, and really hoped Valentenko would have been called up.
Its really up to Gainey and his support staff so anyone can argue, but really won't matter.
You're speaking of two different subject matters here.

One, there's an evaluation of Higgins and his capabilities.

In another, you're exploring the benefits of dealing Higgins in a trade for Gaborik.

I'm not certain if I'd make that move. It's clear Gaborik is vastly superior to Higgins, however:

1) Gaborik's injury prone, and you don't build winners around damaged goods;

2) Gaborik's an impending UFA, and it's hard to deal a promising core player for a rental. Nieuwendyk was still around in Dallas for a number of years to make them a perpetual contender when Iginla was dealt for him, and Nieuwendyk eventually helped return Jason Arnott;

3) Higgins offers Montreal a unique player in that he's sound fundamentally, versatile, committed, a north-south skater on a team of east-westers but versatile enough to still fit in, and he's able to play the blue collar game if it's called for. Gaborik would immediately become the most skilled player on the club, but having more of the same isn't necessarily the key to the Championship.

I'm just not certain I'd do a deal unless Gaborik were committed longer-term, and I'm not certain the team can afford to commit long-term to damaged goods, especially with as many contracts due to expire at year's end.

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10-18-2008, 11:18 AM
  #93
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Higgins is one of the best players on this team. His all around game is spectacular. Leadership, intangibles, everything is there.

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10-18-2008, 11:32 AM
  #94
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Gaborik is too injury prone to be worth as much as Hossa. Seriously, imagine if BG traded Higgins Fischer and Mcdonagh for him and he ends up injured after 2 games. Also the fact that he usually will miss 25+ games makes him less valuable to a team but someone will pay him as if he was a lock for 75+ games every year. There is no way we could sign him anyways. Not worth it.

Higgins is a MUCH better value with his contract and he will still be next year with his new contract. Keep Higgins there is no need for us to start dismantling our team now when its actually good. All these dumb trade proposals is what Houle did to our team back in the day.

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10-18-2008, 12:26 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Higgins is good, I'll give you that...but he ain't no Sergei.


Well stated. Sergei has center potential too but Higgins I dunno anymore...I used to think so.

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10-18-2008, 12:30 PM
  #96
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Well stated. Sergei has center potential too but Higgins I dunno anymore...I used to think so.
Let's start by seeing him live once this year before coming to conclusions?

Higgins is still > Sergei K.

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10-18-2008, 12:53 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Where did you get your give away/takeaway stats? Wondering where, cuz I couldn't find them anywhere.

I don't get why people won't trade a prospect. You do not no whether they will turn out as a star or fail (ie: Wellwood, Daigle and many others).
Go to nhl.com. Then to the individual stats...then its the Hits - Players category.

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10-18-2008, 02:14 PM
  #98
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I know you didnt mean anything but violence against woman shouldnt be on here. Im not criticizing you personally.
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10-18-2008, 02:17 PM
  #99
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Higgins could be a big time playoff performer a nystrom, goring, g anderson, franzen although a bit smaller. He has a huge heart. I dont belive that he will stay with the Habs however but this is the year BG needs to go for it. A rental musclehead and a rental 4th Dman at the deadline would seem more important if the 2 titts bros emerge..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
You're speaking of two different subject matters here.

One, there's an evaluation of Higgins and his capabilities.

In another, you're exploring the benefits of dealing Higgins in a trade for Gaborik.

I'm not certain if I'd make that move. It's clear Gaborik is vastly superior to Higgins, however:

1) Gaborik's injury prone, and you don't build winners around damaged goods;

2) Gaborik's an impending UFA, and it's hard to deal a promising core player for a rental. Nieuwendyk was still around in Dallas for a number of years to make them a perpetual contender when Iginla was dealt for him, and Nieuwendyk eventually helped return Jason Arnott;

3) Higgins offers Montreal a unique player in that he's sound fundamentally, versatile, committed, a north-south skater on a team of east-westers but versatile enough to still fit in, and he's able to play the blue collar game if it's called for. Gaborik would immediately become the most skilled player on the club, but having more of the same isn't necessarily the key to the Championship.

I'm just not certain I'd do a deal unless Gaborik were committed longer-term, and I'm not certain the team can afford to commit long-term to damaged goods, especially with as many contracts due to expire at year's end.

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10-18-2008, 02:25 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
I know you didnt mean anything but violence against woman shouldnt be on here. Im not criticizing you personally.
watch closely... he misses that punch by about a foot....

If it was really violence against women i would have infracted/deleted it

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