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Matt Greene Signs a 5-Year, $14.75MM Contract Extension ($2.95MM per year)

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Old
03-10-2009, 03:01 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
such as?
You know how to work the internet...

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Old
03-10-2009, 03:01 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
So if Dean doesn't land the very best players for the very best price you are going to hate him and the players? I know you get your rocks off by bashing things but you should easy up... Greene is doing his job, the cap his is high at the moment but solid and fits the budget. He did his job today and has been pretty solid for us on our end of the ice. You are talking about one of the only defensemen on this team that has maintained just about an even plus/minus the entire season.
I don't follow blindly. That's the difference. Cap space matters. And Greene is overpaid and locked up for another 4 years where his skills and skating only going to decline. Great.

Most of you lack any perspective when it comes to the Kings. It's always. "Matt Greene rules!" or "I like Zeus" "Stoll's great a faceoffs how lucky are we?" But the truth is these guys are all overpaid vets, that almost every team has, that are taking roster spots from younger players who need ice time at the NHL level to develop as well as keeping us from getting better players in those roles.

Look, if those guys are so great, why are we still going to miss the playoffs? Are you really going to blame the kids? Their fault? If that's the case, then this team should still be ACTIVELY rebuilt.

If those are the players that are going to be here long term, they better be damn well good enough to take us someplace, but they're not. And that's the God's honest truth.


Dean's turned us into the Sharks of old. That team was okay I guess. Bunch of hard hat guys who were gritty and worked hard, but bottom line is, that team wasn't even close to being good enough to contended. So what's our plan? Repeat San Jose's mistakes and rebuild for 10 MORE years and STILL not be good enough?

AND THEN you've got every Kings fan idiot (the same ones that disagree with me) starting trade proposals to trade away any prospect that hasn't set the world on fire.

You know the same idiots (same ones that are likely to quote this post) who thought that Brown was never going develop.

Or Cammalleri was just a one dimensional greedy little gremlin who shot too much..

Statline? 65 34g 33a 67pts

And people want Kovalchuck? When Cammalleri was "supposedly" traded for the very same reasons?

Yes. Kovalchuk is a much more dynamic player, but the Kings would have gotten a much better return on their dollar. Kovalchuk 7 and then some million after UFA or the little one at 5?

Oh, and O'Sullivan too? All of a sudden huh? He's not in the plans? Yeah. Headcase blah, blah, blah. What are Kovalchuk or Gaborik? Headcases!


I'll say it again. Bunch of followers. "In Dean we trust" has become the mantra for the brainwashed. If you're watching what's going on here and how this team is being built (Take whatever Dean says and reverse it) you've got to question this man's abilities. I'm a Kings fan, not a Dean fan, and there's a huge difference.

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Old
03-10-2009, 03:09 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Badass.

Conversation looked like it went like this:

Greene: Awesome game, man. You kept us in it.

Quick: :O

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Old
03-10-2009, 03:16 AM
  #254
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That's a guy that can help your team win a Stanley Cup.

Jon Quick is never going to forget that moment for the rest of his career.

- T

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Old
03-10-2009, 03:17 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
I don't follow blindly. That's the difference. Cap space matters. And Greene is overpaid and locked up for another 4 years where his skills and skating only going to decline. Great.

Most of you lack any perspective when it comes to the Kings. It's always. "Matt Greene rules!" or "I like Zeus" "Stoll's great a faceoffs how lucky are we?" But the truth is these guys are all overpaid vets, that almost every team has, that are taking roster spots from younger players who need ice time at the NHL level to develop as well as keeping us from getting better players in those roles.

Look, if those guys are so great, why are we still going to miss the playoffs? Are you really going to blame the kids? Their fault? If that's the case, then this team should still be ACTIVELY rebuilt.

If those are the players that are going to be here long term, they better be damn well good enough to take us someplace, but they're not. And that's the God's honest truth.


Dean's turned us into the Sharks of old. That team was okay I guess. Bunch of hard hat guys who were gritty and worked hard, but bottom line is, that team wasn't even close to being good enough to contended. So what's our plan? Repeat San Jose's mistakes and rebuild for 10 MORE years and STILL not be good enough?

AND THEN you've got every Kings fan idiot (the same ones that disagree with me) starting trade proposals to trade away any prospect that hasn't set the world on fire.

You know the same idiots (same ones that are likely to quote this post) who thought that Brown was never going develop.

Or Cammalleri was just a one dimensional greedy little gremlin who shot too much..

Statline? 65 34g 33a 67pts

And people want Kovalchuck? When Cammalleri was "supposedly" traded for the very same reasons?

Yes. Kovalchuk is a much more dynamic player, but the Kings would have gotten a much better return on their dollar. Kovalchuk 7 and then some million after UFA or the little one at 5?

Oh, and O'Sullivan too? All of a sudden huh? He's not in the plans? Yeah. Headcase blah, blah, blah. What are Kovalchuk or Gaborik? Headcases!


I'll say it again. Bunch of followers. "In Dean we trust" has become the mantra for the brainwashed. If you're watching what's going on here and how this team is being built (Take whatever Dean says and reverse it) you've got to question this man's abilities. I'm a Kings fan, not a Dean fan, and there's a huge difference.
I hate to rain on your parade but you're no Einstein no matter how hard you try.

We're pretty much the 2nd youngest team in the NHL and you expect the Kings to put more youngsters like Boyle up in the bigs?

Purcell is starting to finally come around, same can be said for Sully last year. There is difference between a fan's perspective and a coach's, and what is means to build a team from within, something to Kings have pretty much never done the right way.

...and now, the Kings finally start to come together and play as a TEAM and for each other, and here you are pissing into the wind all by your lonesome.

I don't drink the Dean koolaid either but really, get over yourself and find the Kings fan you once were.

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03-10-2009, 03:20 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
I don't follow blindly. That's the difference. Cap space matters. And Greene is overpaid and locked up for another 4 years where his skills and skating only going to decline. Great.

Most of you lack any perspective when it comes to the Kings. It's always. "Matt Greene rules!" or "I like Zeus" "Stoll's great a faceoffs how lucky are we?" But the truth is these guys are all overpaid vets, that almost every team has, that are taking roster spots from younger players who need ice time at the NHL level to develop as well as keeping us from getting better players in those roles.
I stopped reading after that.

A 25 year old and a 28 year old vets? They aren't green, but they are prime players. You need prime players.

You sound delusional.

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Old
03-10-2009, 03:29 AM
  #257
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Colten Teubert is going to learn a thing or two from this guy

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Old
03-10-2009, 03:39 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
I don't follow blindly. That's the difference. Cap space matters. And Greene is overpaid and locked up for another 4 years where his skills and skating only going to decline. Great.

Most of you lack any perspective when it comes to the Kings. It's always. "Matt Greene rules!" or "I like Zeus" "Stoll's great a faceoffs how lucky are we?" But the truth is these guys are all overpaid vets, that almost every team has, that are taking roster spots from younger players who need ice time at the NHL level to develop as well as keeping us from getting better players in those roles.

Look, if those guys are so great, why are we still going to miss the playoffs? Are you really going to blame the kids? Their fault? If that's the case, then this team should still be ACTIVELY rebuilt.

If those are the players that are going to be here long term, they better be damn well good enough to take us someplace, but they're not. And that's the God's honest truth.


Dean's turned us into the Sharks of old. That team was okay I guess. Bunch of hard hat guys who were gritty and worked hard, but bottom line is, that team wasn't even close to being good enough to contended. So what's our plan? Repeat San Jose's mistakes and rebuild for 10 MORE years and STILL not be good enough?

AND THEN you've got every Kings fan idiot (the same ones that disagree with me) starting trade proposals to trade away any prospect that hasn't set the world on fire.

You know the same idiots (same ones that are likely to quote this post) who thought that Brown was never going develop.

Or Cammalleri was just a one dimensional greedy little gremlin who shot too much..

Statline? 65 34g 33a 67pts

And people want Kovalchuck? When Cammalleri was "supposedly" traded for the very same reasons?

Yes. Kovalchuk is a much more dynamic player, but the Kings would have gotten a much better return on their dollar. Kovalchuk 7 and then some million after UFA or the little one at 5?

Oh, and O'Sullivan too? All of a sudden huh? He's not in the plans? Yeah. Headcase blah, blah, blah. What are Kovalchuk or Gaborik? Headcases!


I'll say it again. Bunch of followers. "In Dean we trust" has become the mantra for the brainwashed. If you're watching what's going on here and how this team is being built (Take whatever Dean says and reverse it) you've got to question this man's abilities. I'm a Kings fan, not a Dean fan, and there's a huge difference.
The Kings are closer to playoff contention now than they ever were when Visnovsky and Cammalleri were with the team and part of the "core." What does that tell you?

What we're seeing is marked improvement from the TEAM, not just individuals. Since you like to eloquently point out so often, individual numbers. Observe the improved special teams play from the Kings.

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03-10-2009, 03:54 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
I don't follow blindly. That's the difference. Cap space matters. And Greene is overpaid and locked up for another 4 years where his skills and skating only going to decline. Great.

Most of you lack any perspective when it comes to the Kings. It's always. "Matt Greene rules!" or "I like Zeus" "Stoll's great a faceoffs how lucky are we?" But the truth is these guys are all overpaid vets, that almost every team has, that are taking roster spots from younger players who need ice time at the NHL level to develop as well as keeping us from getting better players in those roles.

Look, if those guys are so great, why are we still going to miss the playoffs? Are you really going to blame the kids? Their fault? If that's the case, then this team should still be ACTIVELY rebuilt.

If those are the players that are going to be here long term, they better be damn well good enough to take us someplace, but they're not. And that's the God's honest truth.


Dean's turned us into the Sharks of old. That team was okay I guess. Bunch of hard hat guys who were gritty and worked hard, but bottom line is, that team wasn't even close to being good enough to contended. So what's our plan? Repeat San Jose's mistakes and rebuild for 10 MORE years and STILL not be good enough?

AND THEN you've got every Kings fan idiot (the same ones that disagree with me) starting trade proposals to trade away any prospect that hasn't set the world on fire.

You know the same idiots (same ones that are likely to quote this post) who thought that Brown was never going develop.

Or Cammalleri was just a one dimensional greedy little gremlin who shot too much..

Statline? 65 34g 33a 67pts

And people want Kovalchuck? When Cammalleri was "supposedly" traded for the very same reasons?

Yes. Kovalchuk is a much more dynamic player, but the Kings would have gotten a much better return on their dollar. Kovalchuk 7 and then some million after UFA or the little one at 5?

Oh, and O'Sullivan too? All of a sudden huh? He's not in the plans? Yeah. Headcase blah, blah, blah. What are Kovalchuk or Gaborik? Headcases!


I'll say it again. Bunch of followers. "In Dean we trust" has become the mantra for the brainwashed. If you're watching what's going on here and how this team is being built (Take whatever Dean says and reverse it) you've got to question this man's abilities. I'm a Kings fan, not a Dean fan, and there's a huge difference.
Don Cherry is that you?

Cammalleri isn't fit to be Kovalchuk's caddie. Ilya carries a game. Dominates it. Cammalleri is nobody and nothing in this league without a top end player on his line who can give him room to shoot. Kovalchuk has been playing with dogs**t his whole career and has ridiculous numbers. The guy will get 500 goals in this league. If Cammalleri gets 500 goals in his career I'll tattoo a squid wearing a #13 jersey on my face. Cammalleri is one of those players that come and go without ever getting to that next level. Kovalchuk is a special hockey player. Worth every penny. On the flip side, from this point on, Cammy is never going to be worth the the cash he demands.

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Old
03-10-2009, 04:28 AM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Kings are closer to playoff contention now than they ever were when Visnovsky and Cammalleri were with the team and part of the "core." What does that tell you?

What we're seeing is marked improvement from the TEAM, not just individuals. Since you like to eloquently point out so often, individual numbers. Observe the improved special teams play from the Kings.
The improvement in the end is worthless. During a rebuild the draft pick is much more important. Or didn't you learn that from the years under Andy Murray?

Uh. You supposition also is based on the fact that the team wouldn't be MUCH better with Visnovsky and Cammalleri than Greene and Stoll.

Special teams play? Oh, okay. So part or most of that couldn't be attributed to an entirely NEW SYSTEM and COACH? You know, a coach that actually has A defensive system?

It's all Stoll and Grenne. Right. Makes sense someone SAID that's why Edmonton's penalty kill sucks. I mean really, so what if Garon totally sucked compared to last year and they've had three goaltenders, current goaltender being a never was Dwayne Roloson. Stoll and Greene made those two great. Couldn't do it for Labarbara, but they did those two...

Right. Someone said.

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Old
03-10-2009, 04:32 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Blikian29 View Post
Don Cherry is that you?

Cammalleri isn't fit to be Kovalchuk's caddie. Ilya carries a game. Dominates it. Cammalleri is nobody and nothing in this league without a top end player on his line who can give him room to shoot. Kovalchuk has been playing with dogs**t his whole career and has ridiculous numbers. The guy will get 500 goals in this league. If Cammalleri gets 500 goals in his career I'll tattoo a squid wearing a #13 jersey on my face. Cammalleri is one of those players that come and go without ever getting to that next level. Kovalchuk is a special hockey player. Worth every penny. On the flip side, from this point on, Cammy is never going to be worth the the cash he demands.
I always love this argument. If Kovy's so great, he'c make the team around him better the way Ovechkin did/does. It's always the fact that he couldn't find anyone to play with. Not true. He's the one who doesn't know how to play with other players.

Don't believe me? Watch him in international play. There's no excuse for lack of talent there.

As dynamic as he may be, in the end it's only that dynanicism that separates the two, and neither one could lead this team the promised land.

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03-10-2009, 04:46 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I stopped reading after that.

A 25 year old and a 28 year old vets? They aren't green, but they are prime players. You need prime players.

You sound delusional.
On this team? Yes, they're vets.


A slow footed 25 that takes a lot of punishment....locked up for five years at almost 3 million.

And an already damaged Stoll who's prime has been rather unimpressive.


Character doesn't replace suck. Sorry.

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03-10-2009, 04:48 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
I hate to rain on your parade but you're no Einstein no matter how hard you try.

We're pretty much the 2nd youngest team in the NHL and you expect the Kings to put more youngsters like Boyle up in the bigs?

Purcell is starting to finally come around, same can be said for Sully last year. There is difference between a fan's perspective and a coach's, and what is means to build a team from within, something to Kings have pretty much never done the right way.

...and now, the Kings finally start to come together and play as a TEAM and for each other, and here you are pissing into the wind all by your lonesome.

I don't drink the Dean koolaid either but really, get over yourself and find the Kings fan you once were.
Until the next losing streak. WAKE UP. This team is simply not good enough to compete with the upper echelon teams, so what if they improve how the hell are they going to win the cup?

Weren't we supposed to re-build until this team was ready to compete instead of adding guys just good enough to make up compete?

Wasn't that the plan? Or did I miss the memo?

"Well we could still get a good player at 13. We got Kopitar and Brown in the blackhole"

Yeah, okay. But there were better players taken ahead. And the stats bare out the facts that picking higher in the draft usually means the more talented player.


Last edited by Legionnaire: 03-10-2009 at 04:58 AM.
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Old
03-10-2009, 04:48 AM
  #264
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Old
03-10-2009, 04:50 AM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
You know how to work the internet...
Translated: I dunno, this is just my diluted opinion. I am both too lazy and clueless to back it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
I don't follow blindly. That's the difference. Cap space matters. And Greene is overpaid and locked up for another 4 years where his skills and skating only going to decline. Great.

Most of you lack any perspective when it comes to the Kings. It's always. "Matt Greene rules!" or "I like Zeus" "Stoll's great a faceoffs how lucky are we?" But the truth is these guys are all overpaid vets, that almost every team has, that are taking roster spots from younger players who need ice time at the NHL level to develop as well as keeping us from getting better players in those roles.

Look, if those guys are so great, why are we still going to miss the playoffs? Are you really going to blame the kids? Their fault? If that's the case, then this team should still be ACTIVELY rebuilt.

If those are the players that are going to be here long term, they better be damn well good enough to take us someplace, but they're not. And that's the God's honest truth.


Dean's turned us into the Sharks of old. That team was okay I guess. Bunch of hard hat guys who were gritty and worked hard, but bottom line is, that team wasn't even close to being good enough to contended. So what's our plan? Repeat San Jose's mistakes and rebuild for 10 MORE years and STILL not be good enough?

AND THEN you've got every Kings fan idiot (the same ones that disagree with me) starting trade proposals to trade away any prospect that hasn't set the world on fire.

You know the same idiots (same ones that are likely to quote this post) who thought that Brown was never going develop.

Or Cammalleri was just a one dimensional greedy little gremlin who shot too much..

Statline? 65 34g 33a 67pts

And people want Kovalchuck? When Cammalleri was "supposedly" traded for the very same reasons?

Yes. Kovalchuk is a much more dynamic player, but the Kings would have gotten a much better return on their dollar. Kovalchuk 7 and then some million after UFA or the little one at 5?

Oh, and O'Sullivan too? All of a sudden huh? He's not in the plans? Yeah. Headcase blah, blah, blah. What are Kovalchuk or Gaborik? Headcases!


I'll say it again. Bunch of followers. "In Dean we trust" has become the mantra for the brainwashed. If you're watching what's going on here and how this team is being built (Take whatever Dean says and reverse it) you've got to question this man's abilities. I'm a Kings fan, not a Dean fan, and there's a huge difference.
This is where I facepalm and wish I hadn't said anything until tomorrow where it is not nearing 2 am and I have a page of fluff in my face.

Just because you have built up your little walls around your opinion doesn't make you king of the realm, maybe your own little castle, but surely nothing more than that. As foolhardy and ignorant it is to suggest that anyone that disagrees with you is an idiot; you do make a point, this team is not ready to win the Stanley Cup. But are you sure those around you are the ones that are blind? Nobody here said "oh, let's all bow down to our lord Dean Lombardi and wait for his next immaculate decision." You label others are sheep when they merely voice approval over the transaction of Visnovsky for Greene and Stoll. Would Visnovsky have won us the cup or got us into playoff contention? I highly doubt it.

Nobody here is saying Greene is the greatest ever. People here are recognizing his play and dedication to the team, yet that obviously gives us little reprieve from your billowing of how much he "sucks." He is by far the best defensive defenseman currently on the team and slotted in the 3-4 bracket for the long-term, which obviously you disagree with but will have get over it since you have absolutely no say other than "I told you so's" in case things go your way which may very well happen.

Given how much the odds are stacked against any team on winning the Stanley Cup it is a pretty easy job to sit around predicting the team won't make it and when it happens spout out how you said so and this is why followed by pointing out all of Dean's shortcomings as if your opinions have now been justified.

Are you honestly claiming that the primary reason we are likely to miss the playoffs this season is because of the small amount of overpaid veterans we have on the team? Are you seriously suggesting that they are just wasting roster spots that could be used for youth? I don't see how you can possibly rationalize throwing just about every single prospect we have in the organization on the ice? There are 32 professional hockey organizations that disagree with you you know... Can you even name a team that has just sat around and said "You know, screw development, we don't need an AHL affiliate, just throw them out there on the ice this season and see how they do."?

Obviously, I would assume you would answer in likeness of 'no, that's crazy, I expect Dean to 'actively rebuild' (because rebuilds occur within pre-destined periods of time) and make rational acquisitions of talented young players signed to perfect contracts and jettison all of our veterans because it is youth that wins Stanley Cups.' Meh, I suppose it could work... It did in 1980 at least...

Just because Dean likes people he has worked with and brings in pieces he is familiar with doesn't mean San Jose's history is going to repeat itself again step-by-step. Sure he is building the team the same way, but that doesn't mean it will endure the same fate. There are too many factors when dealing with winning the Stanley Cup to sit around and label who is good enough and not good enough. Every year legitimate contenders are eliminated who are good enough but didn't have things go their way. Detroit would win every year if it was the team best suited to win each and every time. Dean is aiming to build a year-in and year-out playoff contender for years to come and slowly easing our prospects into the lineup. What is so wrong with that? You act as if teams like Detroit were built overnight when, in fact, they were designed decades prior to today with every piece signed and fit perfectly within the system. All the veterans on the team today will not be on the team when we reach that phase.

Did you just compare Cammy to Kovy? I think you did... So Cammy is on pace for 40g in a season alongside Iginlia and the recently acquired Jokinen on the third place team in the west during a contract year before becoming a UFA... Whoopie... Dean admitted that he didn't get all he could for the guy, but that he wasn't going to re-sign, interest was low, and he ended up getting the player he wanted for the rebuild. Kovalchuk is a 50 goal scorer on one of the poorer market teams in the NHL and can put up the same numbers as Cammy without the same big-name linemates. Do you honestly believe that Cammy would be a 40 goal scorer this season if he was on the Kings this year playing with Kopitar and Brown with the same defensive system we have in place? I don't even think he knows how to play defense.

In the end, you play too many video games. Sure it is fun to boot up a brand new NHL EastSide Hockey Manager 2007 season and jettison all the veterans for a bunch of young picks and let them goto work, but that is not how it works in the real world. You complain about overpaying for veterans because you seem to sign them quite easily in NHL 09, but in reality these players have little interest in LA and the only ones you can get your hands on are mid-tier vets wanting upper-tier dollars. This franchise is building into a team that can get the kind of players you seek, but that won't happen overnight. There is no such team that plays with 100% draft picks. Maybe on your 360, but not in the NHL.

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03-10-2009, 04:55 AM
  #266
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Look, if those guys are so great, why are we still going to miss the playoffs? Are you really going to blame the kids? Their fault? If that's the case, then this team should still be ACTIVELY rebuilt.
One word. LaBarbera.

Besides that though, you're missing the point that Lombardi got Stoll and Greene because they are the basics, the fundamentals a team needs. They do the dirty work and contribute here and there. You can't have 10 Crosbys out there and expect results. A team needs its grinders and the guys that do everything behind the scenes, behind the flashy goals and awesome dekes. This is Dean's vision whether you like it or not. When management hired him, they hired his vision of a Cup-winning team. This is not the fastest team, the flashiest team, and maybe not even the best team talent-wise. What it IS is the hardest working team. We are seeing this come out this year. Kopitar, for one, has upgraded his defensive game substantially. Greene and Stoll are players Dean likes because he sees them fitting into this system very well, and he is willing to give them substantial, but not overly-expensive contracts to make sure they are retained for the long run. You don't have to like it, but you have to live with it as long as you're a Kings fan under Dean's regime. So all the complaining in the world isn't going to change Dean's vision for this team.

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03-10-2009, 05:02 AM
  #267
Legionnaire
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
One word. LaBarbera.

Besides that though, you're missing the point that Lombardi got Stoll and Greene because they are the basics, the fundamentals a team needs. They do the dirty work and contribute here and there. You can't have 10 Crosbys out there and expect results. A team needs its grinders and the guys that do everything behind the scenes, behind the flashy goals and awesome dekes. This is Dean's vision whether you like it or not. When management hired him, they hired his vision of a Cup-winning team. This is not the fastest team, the flashiest team, and maybe not even the best team talent-wise. What it IS is the hardest working team. We are seeing this come out this year. Kopitar, for one, has upgraded his defensive game substantially. Greene and Stoll are players Dean likes because he sees them fitting into this system very well, and he is willing to give them substantial, but not overly-expensive contracts to make sure they are retained for the long run. You don't have to like it, but you have to live with it as long as you're a Kings fan under Dean's regime. So all the complaining in the world isn't going to change Dean's vision for this team.
Oh. Labarbara. Yeah. He's that much worse than Roloson and Garon. And if that's the case WTH Dean?

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03-10-2009, 06:01 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Translated: I dunno, this is just my diluted opinion. I am both too lazy and clueless to back it up.
Clueless, not at all. But I'm not going to go research **** to edify that kid. I did it once already and he didn't even bother to read the stats. So yeah. **** that. Don't quote my post if you haven't done the research yourself, and aren't familar with the rest of the NHL. It's not my job to do it for you. Tell me who they're not better than at that salary if you want...


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This is where I facepalm and wish I hadn't said anything until tomorrow where it is not nearing 2 am and I have a page of fluff in my face.
Nobody made you go back and proofread.

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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Just because you have built up your little walls around your opinion doesn't make you king of the realm, maybe your own little castle, but surely nothing more than that. As foolhardy and ignorant it is to suggest that anyone that disagrees with you is an idiot; you do make a point, this team is not ready to win the Stanley Cup. But are you sure those around you are the ones that are blind? Nobody here said "oh, let's all bow down to our lord Dean Lombardi and wait for his next immaculate decision." You label others are sheep when they merely voice approval over the transaction of Visnovsky for Greene and Stoll. Would Visnovsky have won us the cup or got us into playoff contention? I highly doubt it.
My OPINION? That's was Lombardi's opinion! Remember he made that deal and said Vis was part of the "core"?


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Nobody here is saying Greene is the greatest ever. People here are recognizing his play and dedication to the team, yet that obviously gives us little reprieve from your billowing of how much he "sucks." He is by far the best defensive defenseman currently on the team and slotted in the 3-4 bracket for the long-term, which obviously you disagree with but will have get over it since you have absolutely no say other than "I told you so's" in case things go your way which may very well happen.
Ah okay. So I should just get over it every time we have to trade a player due to cap room? Or how about when they take up position that could be filled by someone by better? Sure.

Think a little farther than next week into the future and it doesn't look so grand.


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Given how much the odds are stacked against any team on winning the Stanley Cup it is a pretty easy job to sit around predicting the team won't make it and when it happens spout out how you said so and this is why followed by pointing out all of Dean's shortcomings as if your opinions have now been justified.
I'll tell you so for sure. The same way people will be agreeing with me when he's **** canned....Just like they when the turned on Taylor


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Are you honestly claiming that the primary reason we are likely to miss the playoffs this season is because of the small amount of overpaid veterans we have on the team? Are you seriously suggesting that they are just wasting roster spots that could be used for youth? I don't see how you can possibly rationalize throwing just about every single prospect we have in the organization on the ice? There are 32 professional hockey organizations that disagree with you you know... Can you even name a team that has just sat around and said "You know, screw development, we don't need an AHL affiliate, just throw them out there on the ice this season and see how they do."?
No. That's not what I'm saying. But what I am saying is that those two are not good enough, to do enough, to help this team to make the playoffs but not bad enough to get us a FREE impact player.


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Obviously, I would assume you would answer in likeness of 'no, that's crazy, I expect Dean to 'actively rebuild' (because rebuilds occur within pre-destined periods of time) and make rational acquisitions of talented young players signed to perfect contracts and jettison all of our veterans because it is youth that wins Stanley Cups.' Meh, I suppose it could work... It did in 1980 at least...
LOL. You did NOT just compare this Kings team to the Oilers DYNASTY did you? Holy ****.

And people are calling me delusional. Sweet Jesus.


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Just because Dean likes people he has worked with and brings in pieces he is familiar with doesn't mean San Jose's history is going to repeat itself again step-by-step. Sure he is building the team the same way, but that doesn't mean it will endure the same fate. There are too many factors when dealing with winning the Stanley Cup to sit around and label who is good enough and not good enough. Every year legitimate contenders are eliminated who are good enough but didn't have things go their way. Detroit would win every year if it was the team best suited to win each and every time. Dean is aiming to build a year-in and year-out playoff contender for years to come and slowly easing our prospects into the lineup. What is so wrong with that? You act as if teams like Detroit were built overnight when, in fact, they were designed decades prior to today with every piece signed and fit perfectly within the system. All the veterans on the team today will not be on the team when we reach that phase.
You're right fluff.

Yes. Every year there are very good teams that don't go all the way, but if you look at the ones that do (sans the Devils), they all have a couple of things in common -

A 1-2 punch at center. That's neither Stoll nor Handzus or really anyone in the system.

A number one D man. We have two potential ones but people are already ready to trade HIM away too.

A star goaltender. Quick? Bernier? If we're talkning the Devils model they better be.

When those losing teams lose, they always say that they needed to improve in some area, well that's exactly what needs to be done here for the future. However, we are now locked in for years.


The Red Wings were built overnight if you want to get technical.

The 89 draft to be specific.

Otherwise who knows what would have happened with that team. No Cups I would bet.

You're right it took years, but we don't have the time (Salary Cap) or the tradition to do so in the same manner Detroit has.

You can't build the atmosphere in Detroit by being "almost" good enough. You must win the Cup in orders to get players to start coming here for hockey and not the lifestyle - see Gaborik, Marion





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Did you just compare Cammy to Kovy? I think you did... So Cammy is on pace for 40g in a season alongside Iginlia and the recently acquired Jokinen on the third place team in the west during a contract year before becoming a UFA... Whoopie... Dean admitted that he didn't get all he could for the guy, but that he wasn't going to re-sign, interest was low, and he ended up getting the player he wanted for the rebuild. Kovalchuk is a 50 goal scorer on one of the poorer market teams in the NHL and can put up the same numbers as Cammy without the same big-name linemates. Do you honestly believe that Cammy would be a 40 goal scorer this season if he was on the Kings this year playing with Kopitar and Brown with the same defensive system we have in place? I don't even think he knows how to play defense.
You just compared the Kings to the Oilers.

And? Both are one dimensional goalscorers. Wasn't that the point of the trade? Or was it that he was greedy? Or both? How does Kovalchuk differ?

Oh okay. So it's all been the other players that made Cammalleri better? When he's already proven to be capable without those players? Okay. That makes sense. So I guess he's just lucky that way. At least I know why we traded him we could have two "Lucky's".

And enough of the Kovalchuk excuses. He's a 50 goal scorer blah blah. He'd be a star if he had better players! Ha ha. No. Stars make the players around them better...not the other way around. Again, see his modest international play for proof.

AND Kovalchuk's defense is good? Really? Come on.

Answer me this. Why did Cammalleri get traded? Money or his overall game? I've heard both arguments for both sides but either way Kovalchuk is not an improvement in either of those areas.

His attitude? Yeah. He's got small man complex, but come on. NO worse than Kovy's sulking. Cammalleri's attitude problem stemmed from his questioning of Lombardi. That's no way to run an organization.



Quote:
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In the end, you play too many video games. Sure it is fun to boot up a brand new NHL EastSide Hockey Manager 2007 season and jettison all the veterans for a bunch of young picks and let them goto work, but that is not how it works in the real world. You complain about overpaying for veterans because you seem to sign them quite easily in NHL 09, but in reality these players have little interest in LA and the only ones you can get your hands on are mid-tier vets wanting upper-tier dollars. This franchise is building into a team that can get the kind of players you seek, but that won't happen overnight. There is no such team that plays with 100% draft picks. Maybe on your 360, but not in the NHL.
I don't even have a console. But thanks for playing.

By the way, just to remind people, this is Hockey's Future. This site is geared to young talent and developing teams through the draft. [mod edit - no disparaging of other team sites please]


Last edited by TonySCV: 03-10-2009 at 01:32 PM. Reason: disparaging remarks removed
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03-10-2009, 08:57 AM
  #269
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Legionairre,

Any team that wants to contend for a Stanley Cup outside of a Cinderella run needs veteran players. If the Kings kept replacing our "overpaid" veterans with rookies, this team would never be ready to contend. Look at the Detroit team that won last year. That team is not a young player lead team with veterans to support, it is a team of veterans developed by Detroit and acquired through trades that was supported by their rookies and younger guys.

My point is, there is a point where you have to stop getting younger and add more experience and grit rather than young talent. Matt Greene and Jarret Stoll have both been to the Stanley Cup Finals. Do you except Kopitar or Brown to automatically know how to react to that kind of playoff action, because neither of them has in even played in a playoff game.

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03-10-2009, 09:43 AM
  #270
Kopi The King
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Back to the topic....

Greene is a warrior and I was happy when DL made the trade, right from the get go. Some people don't like it, but to bad. Greene and Stoll are Kings and I'm sure happy as hell they are.

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03-10-2009, 09:52 AM
  #271
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LA should trade every player over 25 (since apparently they are all over paid vets) for draft picks. Then LA should play them right away since they need to get NHL seasoning so when they turn 25 we can trade them for picks (because all players older than 25 are overpayed vets). LA should only play those players because 25 yr olds are breaking down more often, therefore sucking up all the cap space in order to sign those draft picks. Which need to play asap in order to get that NHL seasoning to increase their trade value for more draft picks. Can't you see? You guys are blind, this team sucks and needs to be blown up.



Oh, Greene's the man.

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03-10-2009, 10:18 AM
  #272
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Video of Greener blocking the shot with his face....

Here's a video of Greener blocking both shots by Burrow... the second with his face...
Matt Greene Blocks Shot with Face

I know there's debate whether he's overpaid or not.... but you CAN'T tell me that you dont want this guy on your team! More than anything else, this is the kind of play that shows why he's an assistant captain on the team! Murray keeps talking about how he wants everyone to play for each other and play as a team-- I don't think you can do it any better than this.

Great win!!

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03-10-2009, 10:46 AM
  #273
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Can you envision the contract negotiations with Jack Johnson this summer.

Knock, knock.

Lombardi says "Come in." Johnson and agent enter low lit room where Lombardi is watching the last 20 seconds of last nights game on a loop.

Use your imagination on how the rest of the conversation goes.

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03-10-2009, 10:57 AM
  #274
Boba Fettuccine
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I don't follow blindly. That's the difference. Cap space matters. And Greene is overpaid and locked up for another 4 years where his skills and skating only going to decline. Great.
Greene isn't 35. He is 25 and entering his prime.

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Old
03-10-2009, 10:59 AM
  #275
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You're simply never going to convince some people of the importance of a guy like Greene's contributions. Even after the guy puts his face in front of a puck to potentially save a goal/game.

Good thing is, that's not important in ANY way. What's important is that every King player is convinced.

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