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Detroit has acquired Lang from Caps for Tomas Fleischmann, 1st in 2004, 4th in '06

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02-27-2004, 03:15 PM
  #151
DarioinDenver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
Think....that Lidstrom is going to accept $5 mill per season? I'll believe it when it happens.

So you're cutting all those players?
That is a legit question really. Assuming Hasek doesn't come back to give Detroit yet another royal screwgy and the cap is at 40 mil. How does detroit pay those players with 15 million left over?

On the subject of 1st round draft picks that Detroit seems to trade away with little concern; It's a calculated risk. While those defending the practice will point to the numerous 1st round busts by all NHL squads I think the critics can still point at the stars in today's NHL that did come from the 1st round. It's very difficult to pick up another Yzerman, Sakic or future core superstar that's not among the top picks. I think the truth of the matter is that there's a time to give up 1sts without much concern and that is when you have all the pieces to make a push for the big prize. But with the aging of Detroits offensive core I'd look at the 1st round trades with a little concern. I don't think Zet, Datts and Hudler can be considered those kind of players yet because some of them have never shown great poduction and others have not done it consistantly.

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02-27-2004, 03:15 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
Think....that Lidstrom is going to accept $5 mill per season? I'll believe it when it happens.

So you're cutting all those players?
You do realise the cap (if there is one) will be grandfathered in so current contracts will still be able to be kept on? I think Lidstrom will be signed before the new CBA so it wont make any difference.

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02-27-2004, 03:16 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
Shanny, and Chelios are out? I'd be shocked, but happy to see the dynasty crumbling begin.

Wooley and Thomas are marginal, don't make crap for $$. Less that $2 mill combined.
LOL...Chelios is 42. Him leaving would signify the beginning of the end?

Shanahan is a shell of his former self. He doesnt play physical hardly at all anymore. I think if push comes to shove, the Wings will let him walk. And you are right about Thomas and Woolley...neither makes much. But if/when a cap takes effect, every penny will make a difference.

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02-27-2004, 03:17 PM
  #154
DarioinDenver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
You do realise the cap (if there is one) will be grandfathered in so current contracts will still be able to be kept on? I think Lidstrom will be signed before the new CBA so it wont make any difference.
I think we all realize you're making a very large assumption. Even if it were true, there's no reason why there wouldn't be a big luxury tax on those clubs that did practice exactly what you're proposing.

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02-27-2004, 03:21 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarioinDenver
That is a legit question really. Assuming Hasek doesn't come back to give Detroit yet another royal screwgy and the cap is at 40 mil. How does detroit pay those players with 15 million left over?

.
Hasek? He is gone. There isnt even an inkling of a thought that he will back with the Wings. Holland and the Wings took it in the rear pretty good on that one this year, and they are completey washing their hands of it.

And if Lang continues to produce like he is now, I think $5 million is a pretty good price for him.

We can all speculate on the WIngs financial situation until we are blue in the face. The fact of the matter is that I AM SURE the Wings, just like all the other NHL teams, are aware of what is on the horizon. They are simply not going to just throw caution to the wind. The Wings could lose anywhere from 5-10 veterans after this year. All these guys make millions. And those millions will be subtracted. Get it?

I am not trying to be a jerk here, but cmon people. Ken Holland is not an idiot. The Wings will figure out their finances.

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02-27-2004, 03:24 PM
  #156
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Here is Bob McKenzie's take on the deal. Bob is one of the guys who's opinion I take in high regard. He likes the deal from both sides.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=74031&hubName=nhl

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02-27-2004, 03:25 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
Think....that Lidstrom is going to accept $5 mill per season? I'll believe it when it happens.

So you're cutting all those players?
if there is a cap, the only teams that could take Lidstrom at 7-9 mil are, well crappy teams years away from competing.. Like Washington, Pittsburgh... You think a guy in the twilight of his career [3-4 good years left] is going to leave for the $$$ to help a rebuilding process?

Lidstrom already cashed in. If the new CBA restrictions [Big if, nobody knows what will happen] Limit to players only taking 5 mil, of lidstroms calibur, to stay with a winner. They will.

Why is it a "Big stretch" to assume Contracts will be grandfathered in.. But people seem happy to throw a 35 mil cap around. There is NO way in hell the NHLPA would acccept a 35 mil cap. If there is any cap it will be soft around 45 mil. And i could see them adopting a franchise tag-esque rule like the NFL has. Slap afranchise tag on lidstrom, give him 10 mil, but it doesnt count towards the cap.

bottom line is, if there is a cap, like ever other sport [cept baeball, but that sport sucks], there are rules reguarding signing your OWN players. Signing your OWN free agents counts far less on the cap than it does going out and signing FA's from other teams. NHL will have all kinds of guidlines that will limit spending, but allow teams to keep thier own players. Wings will be able to sign all of thier players with ease.. They may not be able to sign free agents for a year or two.. But thats what Hudle, Grigorenko, Kronwall, Bootland and other young players in the AHL and over seas are for.

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02-27-2004, 03:32 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen
fleischmann is a margarinal prospect


Well played.

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02-27-2004, 03:41 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps
Not a bad return.

Fleischmann is another WHL player, geez George, there ARE other leagues...
The advantage of picking up WHL players is that the WHL is fairly similar to the NHL in terms of playing style, etc. A prospect from Europe will have to adjust to the bigger playing surface, more physical game and also to a new language. A prospect from the WHL mainly just has to adjust to the speed of the game. That's my opinion anyways.

That said, Europe isn't as heavily scouted, so there's a greater chance of finding a real late round gem in Europe than there is of finding a real late round gem in the WHL.

And I agree that this isn't too bad of a return for the Caps. Fleischmann is a pretty good prospect and the picks are all fine and dandy too. It's a good deal for the Wings as well as it isn't just a rental and gets them a pretty good center. I don't know a ton about Lang, but I'm not convinced he'll be able to duplicate this season - his dream season (statistically anyways). But he'll help the Wings. Good deal for both sides, IMO. Ideally the Wings win the Cup and get a few more years out of Lang while the Caps get a couple of good prospects who eventually make the team.

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02-27-2004, 03:58 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingRussian
Thank you Detroit Red Wings.This was all I was waiting for.I am no longer a fan.This all started with adding players to your team such as Chelios,Schneider.The signing of Hatcher and Whitney.And finally,trading for Lang.I can't follow a team where I only like a few players and prospects(Zetterberg,Datsyuk,Lidstrom,Grigorenko and Hudler).But the worst of it was when Detroit management screwed Cujo for half a season.That did it from the start.You should of traded for Kovalev....
Good riddance. I am so glad you won't cheer the Redwings on anymore. How can you POSSIBLY decide to no longer be a team because they picked up ONE player? Screw off.....

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02-27-2004, 03:59 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
evidence that the NHL is in desparate need of a salary cap Exhibit A

$82 mil. that's just ridiculous. it's rangers west, only detroit actually wins.

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02-27-2004, 04:03 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frugal Gourmet
Anything less than a Cup will be a huge disappointment for Detroit.
And it hasn't been like that for the past 9 years? Come on..... This is old news.

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02-27-2004, 04:03 PM
  #163
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I'm really excited about this trade as a Wings fan... Lang has been incredible this year and if he continues his point getting he could get Hart consideration since he'll be on a contender.

It's hard to trade the first rounder but to acquire a player like Lang... you have to give up something good.

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02-27-2004, 04:04 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corbanSOG
evidence that the NHL is in desparate need of a salary cap Exhibit A

$82 mil. that's just ridiculous. it's rangers west, only detroit actually wins.

actually, they're quite different.....

the wings have a ton of homegrown talent..... the rangers dont....
the wings only add pieces to an already strong nucleus.... the rangers add player who they hope will be the nucleus

its also obvious that you're a fan of a team that doesnt have a committed owner.... if u were, u'd take the approach of say, a canucks fan, or a sens fan who just shrug off these moves since it doesnt always lead to the promised land....

dont blame dolan, or illitch for putting money back into the team that keeps them rich....

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02-27-2004, 04:32 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarioinDenver
I think we all realize you're making a very large assumption. Even if it were true, there's no reason why there wouldn't be a big luxury tax on those clubs that did practice exactly what you're proposing.
Speaking of very big assumptions, you seem to be pretty convinced that there will be a $40M salary cap.

Truth is that nobody knows what's going to happen with the CBA. I think it is safe to assume that the new CBA will factor in existing contracts at less than 100% if there is a hard cap. If there isn't, the Av's will have to find 14 homeless people willing to skate for food to play with Sakic, Blake, Forsberg, Foote & Morris!

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02-27-2004, 04:38 PM
  #166
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wouldnt you say colaiacovo is more highly regarded than fleischmann?

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02-27-2004, 04:43 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f.
wouldnt you say colaiacovo is more highly regarded than fleischmann?
And wouldn't you say that #1 defenseman are more highly regarded that 1st line forwards (giving Lang the benefit of the doubt)?

I would also say that there are more teams in need of defensive help than in need of a relatively soft forward. Especially one that historically hasn't really turned his game up a notch in the play-off's.

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02-27-2004, 04:47 PM
  #168
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Now all we need is for Dallas to get Sergei Gonchar and for Colorado to get Olaf Kolzig and the Capitals will be completely depleted.

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02-27-2004, 04:48 PM
  #169
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and wouldnt u say a more highly regarded prospect defenseman is in greater demand than a highly regarded prospect forward?

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02-27-2004, 04:48 PM
  #170
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Good trade for Washington. They are getting rid of the contracts that were going to make rebuilding hard, and they are getting pretty good return also.

Detroit is about winning cups. They want to give their team a chance to do so this year also. I see no reason why Lang wouldn't be productive in a Red Wings jersey. Good trade.

And it is always fun to read comments on these forums. Prospects are deemed so precious that they can't even be used in trades for high skilled players for a contending team. It seems even long shot prospects with 2nd line upside can not be sacrificed in a trade.


Last edited by Freudian: 02-27-2004 at 04:53 PM.
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02-27-2004, 05:11 PM
  #171
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Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
You do realise the cap (if there is one) will be grandfathered in so current contracts will still be able to be kept on? I think Lidstrom will be signed before the new CBA so it wont make any difference.

I didn't know you were privy to the inner workings of the CBA.

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02-27-2004, 05:13 PM
  #172
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Another thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
You do realise the cap (if there is one) will be grandfathered in so current contracts will still be able to be kept on? I think Lidstrom will be signed before the new CBA so it wont make any difference.

If all that salary is really coming off the books, and the Wings are under the $35-$40 million mark, you're saying they would be allowed to break the cap to resign their players? I doubt that unless we're looking at an NBA type cap.

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02-27-2004, 05:21 PM
  #173
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You're obviously not

Quote:
Originally Posted by X8oD
if there is a cap, the only teams that could take Lidstrom at 7-9 mil are, well crappy teams years away from competing.. Like Washington, Pittsburgh... You think a guy in the twilight of his career [3-4 good years left] is going to leave for the $$$ to help a rebuilding process?

Lidstrom already cashed in. If the new CBA restrictions [Big if, nobody knows what will happen] Limit to players only taking 5 mil, of lidstroms calibur, to stay with a winner. They will.

Why is it a "Big stretch" to assume Contracts will be grandfathered in.. But people seem happy to throw a 35 mil cap around. There is NO way in hell the NHLPA would acccept a 35 mil cap. If there is any cap it will be soft around 45 mil. And i could see them adopting a franchise tag-esque rule like the NFL has. Slap afranchise tag on lidstrom, give him 10 mil, but it doesnt count towards the cap.

bottom line is, if there is a cap, like ever other sport [cept baeball, but that sport sucks], there are rules reguarding signing your OWN players. Signing your OWN free agents counts far less on the cap than it does going out and signing FA's from other teams. NHL will have all kinds of guidlines that will limit spending, but allow teams to keep thier own players. Wings will be able to sign all of thier players with ease.. They may not be able to sign free agents for a year or two.. But thats what Hudle, Grigorenko, Kronwall, Bootland and other young players in the AHL and over seas are for.
An NFL fan...the franchise tag is NOT exempt from the Cap.....DUH! You know what they say about assumptions right?

I think you're in for a big shock some day. The kind of cap you're talking about does nothing to promote a) a level playing field for small market teams, or b) a solid salary number for each team to work with.

The reason it works in the NBA, is THEY ALL MAKE $$. They have a HUGE TV CONTRACT!

You would be a great negotiator for the players though. Good luck with that.

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02-27-2004, 05:22 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f.
and wouldnt u say a more highly regarded prospect defenseman is in greater demand than a highly regarded prospect forward?
Sure I'd rate Cola higher than Fleischman. But IMO (and that's all it is), that differential is MUCH, MUCH smaller than the difference between Gonchar & Lang.

Look at it like this. Name the last defenseman that is comparable to Gonchar that moved at the trade deadline. Only name that comes to mind is Rob Blake. Hell, how many legitimate 29 YO #1 d-man have ever moved at the deadline? Look at what it took to get Blake.

Look at what similiar players to Robert Lang have recently been traded for. Even in a career year, Lang is comparable to Bondra or Sullivan, both of whom recently were traded for 2 2nd rounders (or equivelant). Even if you value Lang higher for his career year #'s, his contract would reduce his value somewhat.

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02-27-2004, 05:29 PM
  #175
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[QUOTE=shanwon]An NFL fan...the franchise tag is NOT exempt from the Cap.....DUH! You know what they say about assumptions right?

I think you're in for a big shock some day. The kind of cap you're talking about does nothing to promote a) a level playing field for small market teams, or b) a solid salary number for each team to work with.QUOTE]

I think that X80D's point was that you can't make assumptions about what the NHL is going to look like after the CBA explosion.

I think that we will be for a multi-year lockout to get the CBA that people here are assuming ($32-40M range with no grandfathering of existing contracts). The NHLPA can hold out that long, and then it becomes a test of wills, which the owners have NEVER won. I can't see the NHLPA accepting anything remotely close to that without a MAJOR, MAJOR work stoppage.

I can see a sort of comprimise cap with a luxury tax. The "comprimise" to appease the players would be some sort of arrangement where the longer a player has been with a team, the less his salary counts against the cap. That would limit the big market teams from giving insane offers for UFA's, but still allow them to pay their franchise players big $'s. It would limit the trading ability of the superstars, but I'm sure they could figure something out.

Can anybody tell me that they expect teams to be held to hard cap with currently existing contracts? There's just NO WAY that will be approved.

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