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Who do You Want as Coach

View Poll Results: Who Should Coach the Flyers
Pat Burns 26 20.31%
Ted Nolan 33 25.78%
Craig Berube 1 0.78%
John Tortorella 29 22.66%
Paul Maurice 6 4.69%
John Stevens 17 13.28%
Pat Quinn 9 7.03%
Other 7 5.47%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-18-2008, 09:54 AM
  #26
mm6492
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Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
I think the real problem is Berube. Losing Murray and replacing him with Berube is like carving 100 IQ points off your coaching staff.

Holmgren does some great things but Berube on an NHL coaching staff is flat out ********.
agreed

and I go with Burns. Runs a great sysytem, something Stevens does not know about

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Old
10-18-2008, 10:14 AM
  #27
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I went with Burns. LIke his style of coaching over Torts and Nolan.

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Old
10-18-2008, 10:17 AM
  #28
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Burns, and bring Messier in as an assistant.

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Old
10-18-2008, 10:41 AM
  #29
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Would you be OK with keeping Stevens if we were to get rid of Berube and replace him with an older experianced coach like burns or Quinn as assistant, as a mentor? Doubt that would ever happen

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Old
10-18-2008, 10:52 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
Would you be OK with keeping Stevens if we were to get rid of Berube and replace him with an older experianced coach like burns or Quinn as assistant, as a mentor? Doubt that would ever happen
I'd be okay with Burns as head coach with Stevens an assistant. It solves two problems - Burns institutes systems and gets the most out of the players, and helps Stevens learn how to be a head coach. I don't hate Stevens; he just doesn't have the first clue what he's doing. The players do like him, so he can play the "good cop" role.

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Old
10-18-2008, 11:35 AM
  #31
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If Stevens is removed as head coach, he cannot stay as an assistant. For this team it would be Head coach or nothing. Down the line he could come back.

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Old
10-18-2008, 11:47 AM
  #32
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bring in nolan, the league has something against him just like us...good fit

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Old
10-18-2008, 12:02 PM
  #33
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The three leaders of this poll have all been failures as coach ... I cant' see why anyone would want any of them.

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Old
10-18-2008, 12:18 PM
  #34
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The three leaders of this poll have all been failures as coach ... I cant' see why anyone would want any of them.
You cannot be serious.

2 Cups, and Burns is one of the most winning coaches in the history of the NHL.

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Old
10-18-2008, 12:27 PM
  #35
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The three leaders of this poll have all been failures as coach ... I cant' see why anyone would want any of them.
And John Stevens is a success? Is that what you're saying?

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Old
10-18-2008, 12:31 PM
  #36
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Wasn't there a rumor late last season that Holmgren is a big fan of Tortorella? If so, there's your probable answer if Stevens gets fired this season. Although, you also have to wonder if he'd look to promote Paddock.

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Old
10-18-2008, 12:37 PM
  #37
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Wasn't there a rumor late last season that Holmgren is a big fan of Tortorella? If so, there's your probable answer if Stevens gets fired this season. Although, you also have to wonder if he'd look to promote Paddock.
I've never heard such a thing. And I'm almost 100% positive it was never posted on the board. I couldn't find a link on it either.

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Old
10-18-2008, 02:01 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Dr Love View Post
Nolan didn't last in Buffalo or Long Island because he came in turned things around and then acted like he ran the place and the people in charge let him act that way. That wouldn't be the case in Philly.
I completely agree with you.

I voted Nolan. He utilizes his given roster better than any coach in the league. As for Tortorella, something about him bugs me and I don't want to see him behind the Flyers' bench. Burns would be a great choice, but I think the cancer scare has changed his focus and I would be surprised if he ever returned to coach at the NHL level.

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Old
10-18-2008, 02:14 PM
  #39
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John Stevens is an unknown. Rather go with the unknown than other people trash.

Pat Burns has exactly once improved a team from his previous season. The other 9 times, the team got worse. He's the worst possible coach for a young team that is still developing.

Ted Nolan is a loser that players hate. If he was a good coach, his only coaching gig in a decade wouldn't have been with the most poorly run organization in the NHL.

And John Torterella is a screamer, which just doesn't strike me as the personality of this team at all. He'd be a disaster of epic proportions, and be fired within 100 games. It's probably not fair to call him a loser like the other two, but I think he would destroy this team with his antics.

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Old
10-18-2008, 02:24 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
John Stevens is an unknown. Rather go with the unknown than other people trash.
Disregarding the fact that I disagree with your assessment of the other coaches, at what point does John Stevens cease being an unknown? He basically has two full seasons under his belt now...that's not a short tenure as NHL head coaches go.

Additionally, how do you know he isn't our trash. He's a guy who got an AHL coaching gig because he was part of our organization when he was injured and people liked him (fair enough). He then coached for a number of years without ever getting a sniff of a NHL job until we brought him up to be an assistant coach to Hitch and the job fell into his lap.

Quote:
Pat Burns has exactly once improved a team from his previous season. The other 9 times, the team got worse. He's the worst possible coach for a young team that is still developing.
Add up the average point totals for his teams...largely in an era when 90 pts in this league meant a lot due to the lack of the guaranteed 2 pts from a game.

You'll quickly find that this line of reasoning is brutally asinine.

Quote:
Ted Nolan is a loser that players hate. If he was a good coach, his only coaching gig in a decade wouldn't have been with the most poorly run organization in the NHL.
Actually, the only player I've ever heard that didn't like Nolan was Hasek. Everything else I've heard about him is that players love to play for him.

The fact that the woefully untalented Islanders made the playoffs two years ago remains amazing. The fact that the even less talented Islanders were a moderately competitive team last year is potentially more amazing.

Quote:
And John Torterella is a screamer, which just doesn't strike me as the personality of this team at all. He'd be a disaster of epic proportions, and be fired within 100 games. It's probably not fair to call him a loser like the other two, but I think he would destroy this team with his antics.
Well, Burns is one of the most winning coaches in the history of this league. So, branding him a loser is more insightful to you than anything to do with him. Torts managed to get the team with the worst goaltending IN THE NHL into the playoffs a couple years in a row, which, given the importance of the position, is simply remarkable. I have my qualms about his propensity to yell, but the man can absolutely coach...just like the other two.

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Old
10-18-2008, 02:30 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Disregarding the fact that I disagree with your assessment of the other coaches, at what point does John Stevens cease being an unknown? He basically has two full seasons under his belt now...that's not a short tenure as NHL head coaches go.

Additionally, how do you know he isn't our trash. He's a guy who got an AHL coaching gig because he was part of our organization when he was injured and people liked him (fair enough). He then coached for a number of years without ever getting a sniff of a NHL job until we brought him up to be an assistant coach to Hitch and the job fell into his lap.



Add up the average point totals for his teams...largely in an era when 90 pts in this league meant a lot due to the lack of the guaranteed 2 pts from a game.

You'll quickly find that this line of reasoning is brutally asinine.



Actually, the only player I've ever heard that didn't like Nolan was Hasek. Everything else I've heard about him is that players love to play for him.

The fact that the woefully untalented Islanders made the playoffs two years ago remains amazing. The fact that the even less talented Islanders were a moderately competitive team last year is potentially more amazing.



Well, Burns is one of the most winning coaches in the history of this league. So, branding him a loser is more insightful to you than anything to do with him. Torts managed to get the team with the worst goaltending IN THE NHL into the playoffs a couple years in a row, which, given the importance of the position, is simply remarkable. I have my qualms about his propensity to yell, but the man can absolutely coach...just like the other two.
Burns ran up a ton of those points with a Montreal Canadiens team that had a little known goalie named Roy, and the rest with a guy named Broduer.

His numbers when he did not have a HoF goalie: .589, .583, .521, .462, .555, .555, .445, .438. Meh. You massively overrate Pat Burns coaching ability. Just like this board massive overrates the importance of the coach on the result of the game. The players can make a genius coach look awful or a moron look great.

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Old
10-18-2008, 02:40 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
John Stevens is an unknown. Rather go with the unknown than other people trash.
Disagree!!!

We have a lot of players who should be taught how to play the right way night in and night out. Why? Because most of them signed to long terms deal and some of them developing some bad habits

Stevens could not solve one single problem last season. Now, he has multiple problems and all he can say that is it unacceptable. Well, no ****.

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Old
10-18-2008, 02:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Burns ran up a ton of those points with a Montreal Canadiens team that had a little known goalie named Roy, and the rest with a guy named Broduer.

His numbers when he did not have a HoF goalie: .589, .583, .521, .462, .555, .555, .445, .438. Meh.
Montreal
115
92
89
93

Toronto
99
98
50 (lockout)
didn't finish season...and the Leafs sucked for the next two years.

Boston
91
91
67
8 games of season...Bruins haven't won a playoff series since he left.

Devils
102
98

Hasn't coached a single season of the shootout era, so those 90 point seasons actually mean something in this league. You want to dismiss that success...your call, but the majority of people that have been hired to be head coaches in this league wish they had sucked that little.

Quote:
You massively overrate Pat Burns coaching ability. Just like this board massive overrates the importance of the coach on the result of the game. The players can make a genius coach look awful or a moron look great.
His success speaks for itself, I don't need to pimp him at all. Only a handful of guys can claim more success behind the bench than him...neither Torts and Nolan can, btw.

As far as your philosophical dismissal of the importance of the coach...I think that's routinely proven to be a naive and false take. However, it conveniently means that it's useless to debate the merits of different coaches with you...and you should probably avoid the coaching discussion threads...cuz coaches and coaching really don't matter.

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Old
10-18-2008, 03:19 PM
  #44
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Voted for Burns, but what would everyone think about Denis Savard? I didn't watch even close to enough Hawks games to know if he had much to do with their turnaround or if it was all Kane/Toews, but he's freshly available.

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10-18-2008, 03:40 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Montreal
115
92
89
93

Toronto
99
98
50 (lockout)
didn't finish season...and the Leafs sucked for the next two years.

Boston
91
91
67
8 games of season...Bruins haven't won a playoff series since he left.

Devils
102
98

Hasn't coached a single season of the shootout era, so those 90 point seasons actually mean something in this league. You want to dismiss that success...your call, but the majority of people that have been hired to be head coaches in this league wish they had sucked that little.



His success speaks for itself, I don't need to pimp him at all. Only a handful of guys can claim more success behind the bench than him...neither Torts and Nolan can, btw.

As far as your philosophical dismissal of the importance of the coach...I think that's routinely proven to be a naive and false take. However, it conveniently means that it's useless to debate the merits of different coaches with you...and you should probably avoid the coaching discussion threads...cuz coaches and coaching really don't matter.
I never said it didn't matter, just that it's overrated by people here.

It matters, but the talent, skill, and effort of the players matter way, way more.

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Old
10-18-2008, 04:04 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I never said it didn't matter, just that it's overrated by people here.

It matters, but the talent, skill, and effort of the players matter way, way more.
The difference in talent-level for most NHL teams is relatively negligible. There is some, but especially once you start talking about playoff teams...it's pretty similar as a team across the board. This is especially true as the implementation of the salary cap continues to spread the talent wealth throughout the league.

Therefore, if you think coaching has any effect on how a team performs...it becomes essential to winning under a salary cap, because it's the one area where you can gain an advantage with ease over your opponent. In fact, management and coaching are the two most important things to an organization now...talent is relatively normalized, those other two items are going to be the difference between success and failure in the league -- just as you see in the NFL.

Additionally...the very purpose of coaching is to implement or enhance the very things you're crediting as the sole domain of the players. A good coach takes advantage of the talent and skill of his players to put them in the best possible positions to succeed...A good coach gets consistently good efforts out of his club. So, yes, those things matter way more, but the coach has a hand in those things.


Last edited by Jester: 10-18-2008 at 04:09 PM.
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Old
10-18-2008, 04:11 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester

The fact that the woefully untalented Islanders made the playoffs two years ago remains amazing. The fact that the even less talented Islanders were a moderately competitive team last year is potentially more amazing.

Quote:

The difference in talent-level for most NHL teams is relatively negligible. There is some, but especially once you start talking about playoff teams...it's pretty similar as a team across the board. This is especially true as the implementation of the salary cap continues to spread the talent wealth throughout the league.
Man, you are worse than a politician. At least they wait more than a couple of hours before completely contradicting themselves.

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Old
10-18-2008, 04:17 PM
  #48
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Give Stevens a game or two and if we lose, Go for Nolan.

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Old
10-18-2008, 04:23 PM
  #49
Jester
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Man, you are worse than a politician. At least they wait more than a couple of hours before completely contradicting themselves.
How did I contradict myself?

1) NHL talent-level is pretty similar across the board.

2) Especially amongst playoff teams, the similarity is really pronounced.

The Islanders were a team giving away a lot of talent, and it was amazing they made the playoffs (we'll note that I said "amazing," and noted "pretty similar" in discussing playoff teams -- I'll assume you understand the use of both terms). We both know you're smart enough to understand the concept of an outlier at that, so I'll just chalk this post up to you being an ass. Additionally, a good coaching job managed to squeak an under talented team into the playoffs...once again raising the importance of coaching.

None of that contradicts a broader analysis of all 30 teams in the league. In any case by case analysis there will be variance from generic statements, you're an actuary and you damn well know this.

You're better than this post.

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10-18-2008, 04:24 PM
  #50
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Give Stevens a game or two and if we lose, Go for Nolan.
He isn't getting canned in 1 or 2 games even if they're blow outs.

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