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Maple Leafs @ Penguins - OCT 18/08 - 7:00 CBC

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10-19-2008, 10:55 AM
  #626
John-Eric Iannicello
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I'm not sure Hagman should be on that line.

Hagman seems to have a slow decision making process, and Grabovski and Kulemin might be better off with a different linemate.

Wonder how they'd do with Tlusty on their line, who I think might be quicker/smarter than Hagman.
I wouldn't mind that either. But Tlusty hasn't looked all that great.. so I'm not sure he's deseriving of the spot just yet.

I don't know if I would change that line yet though. They make things happen out there .. if they don't start putting pucks in the back of the net it may be time to switch them but it's still early.

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10-19-2008, 10:57 AM
  #627
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Didn't anyone notice that Fletcher hasn't done anything to help the offence before this season? A good PP isn't going to come out of nowhere.
There's a difference betwen expecting a PP to be a passable NHL powerplay and expecting it to be a GOOD power play.

I don't think anyone expects us to have a good PP this year.....but it simply has to be better than what we've seen so far.

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10-19-2008, 10:59 AM
  #628
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and yet Blake is leading the team in scoring, and was one of the leading scorers last year as well.

and Blake has all the speed, hustle, and defensive play of Grabo - but he's just a better player overall.
I think Grabo is out hustling Blake. Blake is pretty good in the offensize zone, but I think Grabo is putting alot more effort out there at the moment. Maybe too much effort to try and put in a goal/point ... ?

For all Blakes missed shots and things like that, he does a pretty good job of holding onto the puck and allowing the play to slow down in the offensive zone. I'd like to see Steen or Tlusty move up to that spot on their wing. Ponikarovsky has obviously lost his spot for the time being.. so it looks as if it's up for grabs.

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10-19-2008, 11:00 AM
  #629
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Blake has received the most ATOI then any Leaf forward .. 2 of his 3 team leading points as you call them came on the PP with a man advantage. His only goal on the season was a 1 foot tap in rebound to close the gap to 5-1 followed by a Cup winning celebration afterwards. His PP assist came yesterday when he hit Fluery square in the chest from prime shooting territory in the slot, and the puck dropped to his feet and Antropov banged it in before he could cover the rebound. His other assist came when he threw the puck at the net from the corner behind the icing line and Pony deflected it in the blue ice by the goalie.

Thus making him our most productive player in your eyes, and useless to those that are watching the games and pay attention to how he is producing points. 24 SOG with only 1 goal is not very productive at all to many people, its simply high volume with little to no success. Everything he does screams selfishness as its all about Jason first.

I for one am hoping like hell that all this ATOI is all about showcasing him and giving him every opportunity to do a little stat padding, in hopes that someone will take him and his ridiculous contract off our hands this year. I sincerely doubt thats possible though for Fletcher to find anyone dumb enough to take that contract, no matter what Blake does.
He's receiving the ice time because he deserves it - he and Nik have been our best forwards this year.

You complain about all his ice time, when Hagman and Grabo are getting nearly just as much ice time, and have even less to show for it.....and yet you can't stop kissing their butts.

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10-19-2008, 11:01 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
maybe he should shoot more.
And take low-percentage shots like Blake? I'd rather a pass in that situation

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10-19-2008, 11:01 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Jericho99 View Post
I think Grabo is out hustling Blake. Blake is pretty good in the offensize zone, but I think Grabo is putting alot more effort out there at the moment. Maybe too much effort to try and put in a goal/point ... ?

For all Blakes missed shots and things like that, he does a pretty good job of holding onto the puck and allowing the play to slow down in the offensive zone. I'd like to see Steen or Tlusty move up to that spot on their wing. Ponikarovsky has obviously lost his spot for the time being.. so it looks as if it's up for grabs.
Blake has been ALL effort this year. Non-stop skating, with and without puck, and our most tireless and persistent forechecker.

He is ALWAYS on or around the puck when he's out there.

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10-19-2008, 11:06 AM
  #632
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And take low-percentage shots like Blake? I'd rather a pass in that situation

So you prefer Grabo's 0 points in 5 games to Blake's 3 points in 5 games (and two disallowed points on top of that).

I guess that's up to you.

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10-19-2008, 11:10 AM
  #633
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So you prefer Grabo's 0 points in 5 games to Blake's 3 points in 5 games (and two disallowed points on top of that).

I guess that's up to you.
Okay but if he shot it and still had no points, then what? He's had bad luck if anything. Grabo has probably been our best player thus far, IMO.

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10-19-2008, 11:43 AM
  #634
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I wouldn't mind that either. But Tlusty hasn't looked all that great.. so I'm not sure he's deseriving of the spot just yet.

I don't know if I would change that line yet though. They make things happen out there .. if they don't start putting pucks in the back of the net it may be time to switch them but it's still early.
I don't know that Tlusty deserves a top spot, but we are talking a line that is producing no points, so I'm not sure I could even identify a top spot.

For me it would be about finding the correct combination, and although I see Hagman working hard with them, and Grabovski setting Hagman up, Hagman actually scored on the "4th." line.

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10-19-2008, 11:51 AM
  #635
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and yet Blake is leading the team in scoring, and was one of the leading scorers last year as well.
Situations like this are a perfect example of why your tunnel vision and selective focus on numbers with a complete disregard for on ice play are so flawed.

You also neglect to mention that he leads our team in TOI for a forward, gets plenty of PP opportunity, and has 3 bloody points since we're so early into the season. FYI, 2 of his mighty 3 points came on the powerplay.

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10-19-2008, 11:51 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I don't know that Tlusty deserves a top spot, but we are talking a line that is producing no points, so I'm not sure I could even identify a top spot.

For me it would be about finding the correct combination, and although I see Hagman working hard with them, and Grabovski setting Hagman up, Hagman actually scored on the "4th." line.
The combination, for the most part is working right now IMO. They are causing alot of headaches for defenders .. the pucks just aren't going in.

I'm all for experimenting with other players. I just think for the most part, they seem to be moving the puck alot better then other lines. Their doing everything right (except getting points), and I think RW should hold out a bit longer before changing it up. I think sooner or later the bounces will go their way. As long as they keep working for them.

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10-19-2008, 11:58 AM
  #637
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He's receiving the ice time because he deserves it - he and Nik have been our best forwards this year.

You complain about all his ice time, when Hagman and Grabo are getting nearly just as much ice time, and have even less to show for it.....and yet you can't stop kissing their butts.
Agreed the Kulemin --- Grabovski -- Hagman line had a very strong game and showed tremendous effort and generated and manufactured scoring chances but came up empty. Your boy RW singled them out in his PC for their effort and play.

Wilson took apart the Antropov line inserting Mitchell because he wasn't happy with Pony (only 8:16) nor that line and claims its those vets of his that need to provide more.

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10-19-2008, 12:02 PM
  #638
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poni sucks

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10-19-2008, 12:15 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
If you pick the Leafs to lose in the prediction thread (or bet with someone), either way you win.
just because I choose the other team to win, doesn't mean I am cheering for the Leafs to lose. I just think the other team will win.

Are you kidding me? I'd rather get 0 points in the prediction thread picking the opponent each time and having the Leafs go 82-0. I pick against the Leafs, cause odds are they are going to lose.

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10-19-2008, 12:25 PM
  #640
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just because I choose the other team to win, doesn't mean I am cheering for the Leafs to lose. I just think the other team will win.

Are you kidding me? I'd rather get 0 points in the prediction thread picking the opponent each time and having the Leafs go 82-0. I pick against the Leafs, cause odds are they are going to lose.
Hoping and cheering for Leafs to win and hoping and cheering for 1st pick in the entry draft to get Tavares are polar opposites.

If you were happy that the Pens won the game as it moved the team closer to Tavares then your on board the Tavares quest, but if your disappointed the team lost then you have a conflict of interest on your hands, that you need to reconcile to determine your priorities.

Cheering for or against the team is irrelevant as it doesn't effect the outcome of the score no matter what you do. The Wins and Losses from post game results are what determines the future of the Leafs.. Therefore cheering is only for fun and you shouldn't put any value in it as it doesn't impact the result..

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10-19-2008, 12:46 PM
  #641
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Hoping and cheering for Leafs to win and hoping and cheering for 1st pick in the entry draft to get Tavares are polar opposites.

If you were happy that the Pens won the game as it moved the team closer to Tavares then your on board the Tavares quest, but if your disappointed the team lost then you have a conflict of interest on your hands, that you need to reconcile to determine your priorities.

Cheering for or against the team is irrelevant as it doesn't effect the outcome of the score no matter what you do. The Wins and Losses from post game results are what determines the future of the Leafs.. Therefore cheering is only for fun and you shouldn't put any value in it as it doesn't impact the result..
I know that cheering makes no difference. That's why I cheer FOR the Leafs every game. Also, I cheer FOR the teams that are below the Leafs, to win. When the Leafs lose, I know it is good for the future as it brings us closer to a high end draft pick. I do not cheer for them to lose, but I am not truly upset or mad if they lose. I know that their ****tiness will play out in the end.

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10-19-2008, 01:01 PM
  #642
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zeke, Blake hasn't been too bad this season. he is skating hard and contributing by default almost. what I can't understand is your criticism of Grabovski. He has continued his great play right from the pre season into the regular season only, the points have not followed him which should change quickly.

he has shown great speed, aggresiveness, great boards play and hustle and excellent hands. he has been a positive this season at worst.

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10-19-2008, 01:21 PM
  #643
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My bad man. Edited. Thanks,


Wasn't that a line last year? There was a line with Stajan and Blake that I loved. I really think that was it.
I think you're thinking of Blake Stajan Tucker that was being used down the stretch

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10-19-2008, 01:22 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
zeke, Blake hasn't been too bad this season. he is skating hard and contributing by default almost. what I can't understand is your criticism of Grabovski. He has continued his great play right from the pre season into the regular season only, the points have not followed him which should change quickly.

he has shown great speed, aggresiveness, great boards play and hustle and excellent hands. he has been a positive this season at worst.
I hope he does, but we're starting to sound like Habs fans from last year, who had him pegged as their 2nd line center

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10-19-2008, 02:29 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
zeke, Blake hasn't been too bad this season. he is skating hard and contributing by default almost. what I can't understand is your criticism of Grabovski. He has continued his great play right from the pre season into the regular season only, the points have not followed him which should change quickly.

he has shown great speed, aggresiveness, great boards play and hustle and excellent hands. he has been a positive this season at worst.
He hasn't shown "excellent hands", that's the entire problem.

He has, in fact, shown "stone hands".

He is hustling nicely, and using his speed well - but he's not making any type of nifty moves or passes or shots, and is simply not creating any quality offense. And even the borderline chances he's in on he's wasting.

He is playing like a decent checking line player - but of course he's way too small to ever last long playing that kind of role in the NHL.

Heck, even in the pre-season, all of his offense was coming from crashing the crease, not from impressive puck creativity.

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10-19-2008, 02:31 PM
  #646
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Agreed the Kulemin --- Grabovski -- Hagman line had a very strong game and showed tremendous effort and generated and manufactured scoring chances but came up empty. Your boy RW singled them out in his PC for their effort and play.

Wilson took apart the Antropov line inserting Mitchell because he wasn't happy with Pony (only 8:16) nor that line and claims its those vets of his that need to provide more.
Ron has changed wingers on both lines, so I'm not sure what your point is thre.

And as for Ron singling them out for quality play - actions speak louder than words - and Ron's actions have Blake getting more minutes.

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10-19-2008, 03:10 PM
  #647
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Didn't you notice that was Fletcher's plan all along. He has even purposely held back cap space, used up more on buyouts and threw all his new additions into defensive players and or grit excluding Grabovski.

This team is going to struggle all year to manufacture goals, and whether you want to accept it or not the "Goals For" from last season is going to come down. 9 goals for after 5 games an early indication of what to expect with players like Antropov and Blake scoring their goals by shoveling in loose pucks in the blue ice.
I was merely stating a fact for those that think that a PP can be coached into effect..

Thanks for basically repeating what I just wrote, though.

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10-19-2008, 03:55 PM
  #648
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I was merely stating a fact for those that think that a PP can be coached into effect.
So your saying its a player personnel issue now, and that you vastly overrated Leafs youngsters and prospects compared to other teams.

Leafs have 10 players on the 23 man roster 25 years old or younger and they have combined for 2 goals (Kulemin) and 2 assists (Steen and Mitchell one each) total combined for all 10. There is also nothing on the farm to recall to improve this lack of offense and thus the PP is struggling mightily as a result.

Can't say I disagree, then again I have been preaching that all along that Leafs simply lack the high end talent during a rebuild program to effectively win games due to their expected contribution. Now that their getting their opportunity to show what they can do they're no shows.

A simple look at Leafs scoring to date will show that the bottom 9 spots on the roster in team scoring are all occupied by those < 25 aged young players.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=tor

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10-19-2008, 04:43 PM
  #649
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So your saying its a player personnel issue now, and that you vastly overrated Leafs youngsters and prospects compared to other teams.

Leafs have 10 players on the 23 man roster 25 years old or younger and they have combined for 2 goals (Kulemin) and 2 assists (Steen and Mitchell one each) total combined for all 10. There is also nothing on the farm to recall to improve this lack of offense and thus the PP is struggling mightily as a result.

Can't say I disagree, then again I have been preaching that all along that Leafs simply lack the high end talent during a rebuild program to effectively win games due to their expected contribution. Now that their getting their opportunity to show what they can do they're no shows.

A simple look at Leafs scoring to date will show that the bottom 9 spots on the roster in team scoring are all occupied by those < 25 aged young players.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=tor
Wow, that's a lot of writing that totally misses the point. What I meant is that the Leafs have $10 million in cap money that could have gone to players that could help the offence.

Maybe next time you won't miss the mark that badly, that was just embarrassing for you.

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