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toronto/ottawa

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Old
10-21-2008, 07:41 AM
  #26
DougGilmour93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens fan in Toronto View Post
three ways are hard but way more plausable then a tor - ott trade.

Toskala to Chi for 1st + Khabby

then

Toskala to Ottawa for 1st + Nikulin + Gerber
Toronto doesn't do this. They get a bloated contract and a late 1st??? No where near enough. If they want us to take on that contract they have to add. Not to mention a 1st round pick is not nearly enough for Toskala.

It's more like...

To Tor: Khabby, 1st

To Chi: nothing. They give us the 1st to take on Khabby's contract.

Than they deal us Bolland Brouwer and Barker for Toskala and Poni

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Old
10-21-2008, 07:46 AM
  #27
danishh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens fan in Toronto View Post
three ways are hard but way more plausable then a tor - ott trade.

Toskala to Chi for 1st + Khabby

then

Toskala to Ottawa for 1st + Nikulin + Gerber
chicago still gets stuck with a goalie they dont need.


I think ottawa-toronto could work, but there's no way more than one first is going to toronto in that case. We also might have to give up a real prospect like zubov rather than throw nikulin, hennesy, and schubert at them.

I'm fine with:
Gerber, SJ 1st, Zubov, Nikulin/Hennessy
for
Toskala, dump (my guess is stajan and his 1.75M)

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Old
10-21-2008, 08:28 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post

I'm fine with:
Gerber, SJ 1st, Zubov, Nikulin/Hennessy
for
Toskala, dump (my guess is stajan and his 1.75M)
I would be okay with this

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Old
10-21-2008, 08:47 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
chicago still gets stuck with a goalie they dont need.


I think ottawa-toronto could work, but there's no way more than one first is going to toronto in that case. We also might have to give up a real prospect like zubov rather than throw nikulin, hennesy, and schubert at them.

I'm fine with:
Gerber, SJ 1st, Zubov, Nikulin/Hennessy
for
Toskala, dump (my guess is stajan and his 1.75M)
I think this is close but something you have to keep in mind, Toskala is signed at 4 million for another year after this one when I believe he will be 31. You receive a solid goaltender for another 5ish years. Toronto receives a below average goalie which I consider a good backup rather than a starter. So we're left with Pogge / Gerber and a whole lot of uncertainty. SJ traded us Toskala because they had their true #1 tender and no uncertainties. In other words it's going to take an overpayment. Here's my counter offer.
Gerber, Ott 1st, Zubov, Ott 2nd, Ott 3rd
for
Toskala, Ponikarovski

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Old
10-21-2008, 11:34 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smif View Post
I think this is close but something you have to keep in mind, Toskala is signed at 4 million for another year after this one when I believe he will be 31. You receive a solid goaltender for another 5ish years. Toronto receives a below average goalie which I consider a good backup rather than a starter. So we're left with Pogge / Gerber and a whole lot of uncertainty. SJ traded us Toskala because they had their true #1 tender and no uncertainties. In other words it's going to take an overpayment. Here's my counter offer.
Gerber, Ott 1st, Zubov, Ott 2nd, Ott 3rd
for
Toskala, Ponikarovski
Toskala was acquired with Mark Bell for a conditional 1st round , a 2nd round and a 4th round selection in 2009. Since Bll was at least worth a 4th in 2009 at the time it was for a 1rst and 2nd.

Now after a year where aside from GPI his numbers are similar to previous years... so what exactly do justify the overpayment now?

Edit: The fact that Toronto sucks might a reason for them to hang on to Toskala... but not for the Sens to bend over and ask for more.

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Old
10-22-2008, 06:41 AM
  #31
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smif View Post
I think this is close but something you have to keep in mind, Toskala is signed at 4 million for another year after this one when I believe he will be 31. You receive a solid goaltender for another 5ish years. Toronto receives a below average goalie which I consider a good backup rather than a starter. So we're left with Pogge / Gerber and a whole lot of uncertainty. SJ traded us Toskala because they had their true #1 tender and no uncertainties. In other words it's going to take an overpayment. Here's my counter offer.
Gerber, Ott 1st, Zubov, Ott 2nd, Ott 3rd
for
Toskala, Ponikarovski
Good gawd, 5 years? ...
No more. Look, Toskala is not the solution to Ottawa's goaltending woes. He's not the goalie to put them over the top, he's merely an extension of the Rhodes, Tugnutt, past-his-prime Barrasso, Lalime, Emery, Gerber line of average at best goalies who (usually) weren't good enough to win with. He's been 24th, 20th and 31st in SV% (qualified leaders = 27+ games) over the past 3 years (being lower than Gerber twice). He provided a slight improvement over Raycroft's 06-07 season with essentially the same team last year. He's the product of hype based around SJ's defense, riding Kipprusoff's coattails and now playing in one of the biggest market's in the league. The GM who gave up a 1st, 2nd a 4th for him was fired, while the GM who gave up a 2nd rounder for Kipper is in no danger of losing his job. He's not worth the proposal's being thrown around this and other threads and undeserving of the hype he gets around here.

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Old
10-22-2008, 11:58 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Sammitch View Post
What I WOULD do is..

Gerber, SJ or OTT First, Christoph Schubert, and Alex Nikulin..
No thanks.

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Old
10-23-2008, 12:02 AM
  #33
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If we give Toskala to Ottawa, Ottawa will have to drastically overpay because of the rivalry, they will definitely have to exceed far value.

Ottawa wants our stud goalie? Make them pay through the ass.

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Old
10-23-2008, 12:05 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Good gawd, 5 years? ...
No more. Look, Toskala is not the solution to Ottawa's goaltending woes. He's not the goalie to put them over the top, he's merely an extension of the Rhodes, Tugnutt, past-his-prime Barrasso, Lalime, Emery, Gerber line of average at best goalies who (usually) weren't good enough to win with. He's been 24th, 20th and 31st in SV% (qualified leaders = 27+ games) over the past 3 years (being lower than Gerber twice). He provided a slight improvement over Raycroft's 06-07 season with essentially the same team last year. He's the product of hype based around SJ's defense, riding Kipprusoff's coattails and now playing in one of the biggest market's in the league. The GM who gave up a 1st, 2nd a 4th for him was fired, while the GM who gave up a 2nd rounder for Kipper is in no danger of losing his job. He's not worth the proposal's being thrown around this and other threads and undeserving of the hype he gets around here.
Are you serious?

For a person who is a Sens fan, you obviously see the Leafs a lot.

Either you're having a bad day or you are the epitome of idiocy.

Oh, and for the stats. Take a look at what team he plays for, since I'm not sure you know anymore.

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Old
10-23-2008, 04:20 AM
  #35
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Denault View Post
Are you serious?

For a person who is a Sens fan, you obviously see the Leafs a lot.

Either you're having a bad day or you are the epitome of idiocy.

Oh, and for the stats. Take a look at what team he plays for, since I'm not sure you know anymore.
No, I know very well. He was with the Sharks for 2 of the 3 seasons I posted about when he put up mediocre SV% numbers. And then was with virtually the same exact Toronto team that Raycroft was with the season before, only slightly improving upon his numbers across the board.

There's no value in having the 20th best goalie in the league and beyond JFJ, you're not getting anybody to "overpay" for him by giving up a 1st rounder at all.

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Old
10-23-2008, 06:54 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Toronto doesn't do this. They get a bloated contract and a late 1st??? No where near enough. If they want us to take on that contract they have to add. Not to mention a 1st round pick is not nearly enough for Toskala.

It's more like...

To Tor: Khabby, 1st

To Chi: nothing. They give us the 1st to take on Khabby's contract.

Than they deal us Bolland Brouwer and Barker for Toskala and Poni

Khabby is elite.

Khabby would have been one of the better goalies over the last few seasons if Savard understood the concept of defense.

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Old
10-23-2008, 06:58 AM
  #37
DougGilmour93
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Khabby is elite.

Khabby would have been one of the better goalies over the last few seasons if Savard understood the concept of defense.
Khabby was elite. Like 3 seasons ago....

I mean c'mon. No buddy wants him or his contract. He can't even play in the KHL.

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Old
10-23-2008, 07:55 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
No, I know very well. He was with the Sharks for 2 of the 3 seasons I posted about when he put up mediocre SV% numbers. And then was with virtually the same exact Toronto team that Raycroft was with the season before, only slightly improving upon his numbers across the board.

There's no value in having the 20th best goalie in the league and beyond JFJ, you're not getting anybody to "overpay" for him by giving up a 1st rounder at all.
You are lacking hockey sense.

Toskala is 8-12th goaltender in the league.

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Old
10-23-2008, 08:24 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Denault View Post
You are lacking hockey sense.

Toskala is 8-12th goaltender in the league.
I think Trent really hates Toskala. I would love to have him in Ottawa, miles ahead of Gerber.

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Old
10-24-2008, 07:21 AM
  #40
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Denault View Post
You are lacking hockey sense.

Toskala is 8-12th goaltender in the league.
No, you're a homer... delusional about the ability of your below average starter.
The 8th to 12th best goalie in the league has the 20th to 25th SV% among starters post-lockout?

Toronto's defense isn't screwing anything up for him, as he is still putting up the same mediocre SV% that he put up in front of SJ's great team... just allowing a few more goals because he gets a few more shots. Proving that he can be equally mediocre in front of good and bad teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spanky View Post
I think Trent really hates Toskala. I would love to have him in Ottawa, miles ahead of Gerber.
Not all improvements upon Gerber are worthwhile.
I have no problem with Toskala, but I have a problem wasting Alfie's last 3-4 years in the league with the 20th best goalie in the league. That's not good enough to win a Cup and I'm not sure how long it will take to become a legitimate contender after he retires. Asking Elliott to be as good as we'll need him to be within 3 years seems like a tall order, so I just want to do this goalie acquisition once, do it right and do it long term. I don't want to pull a JFJ handing out 1st rounders for every mediocre goalie that he can gets his hands on year-to-year.

Even if we can get mediocre-to-average starters cheap, I don't want a revolving door of tryouts to find out what the minimum goalie we could possibly win with is. Heck, that sort of plan reminds me of morons on the highway during the winter driving SUV's. --> Drive 100 kph, lose control of the car, regain control... drive 99kph, lose control of the car, regain control... drive 98 kph. We don't have the time to piss away with guys like this.

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