HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rate our defenders!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-21-2008, 03:21 PM
  #1
jfc64
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,130
vCash: 500
Rate our defenders!

From 0 (bad) to 10 (good)

John-Michael Liles, D 5 1 3 4 E 0 20:14 1 2 0 0 13 7.7
Ruslan Salei, D 5 0 2 2 2 4 19:50 0 1 0 0 6 0.0
Jordan Leopold, D 5 1 1 2 E 2 15:43 0 0 0 0 7 14.3
Brett Clark, D 5 1 0 1 E 2 19:45 0 0 0 0 2 50.0
Scott Hannan, D 5 0 1 1 E 2 18:46 0 0 0 0 0 0.0
Adam Foote, D 5 0 0 0 -2 4 19:07 0 0 0 0 1 0.0

jfc64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 03:51 PM
  #2
Stories
Hockey scientist
 
Stories's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bethesda, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 6,320
vCash: 500
On Defenese:
Liles: 6
Salei: 7
Foote: 9
Leopold: 7
Hannan: 8
Clark: 7

Offense:
Liles: 8
Salei: 6
Leopold: 7
Clark: 6
Hannan: 4
Foote: 2

Stories is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 03:57 PM
  #3
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Country: United States
Posts: 19,410
vCash: 500
Offense

Liles - 9
Clark - 7
Salei - 7
Leopold - 7
Foote - 5
Hannan - 3

Defense

Foote - 8
Leopold - 8
Hannan - 8
Salei - 7
Clark - 7
Liles - 6

All Around

Leopold - 8
Salei - 7
Foote - 7
Clark - 7
Liles - 7
Hannan - 6


Last edited by Foppa2118: 10-25-2008 at 03:35 PM.
Foppa2118 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 04:39 PM
  #4
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
All zeroes.

Huis Clos* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 04:49 PM
  #5
quesosauce
Registered User
 
quesosauce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denver
Country: United States
Posts: 2,927
vCash: 500
foote 9
leopold7.5
liles 7.5
salei 8
clark 6.5
hannan 8

quesosauce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2008, 10:12 PM
  #6
Drury_Sakic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,350
vCash: 500
Foote 8 (expectation, leadership, D version of Lappy, Hulk Smash! )

(he needs to be more vocal on the ice as he was in LA, get the guys to fall into line. He is the leader on the blueline, step up and get the guys to play better, or work with Granato to get a better system out there on D )

Leopold 9 (expectation, to finish the season with 2 legs? )

(he has been improving day by day, still needs some work but he is showing potential 2 way all-star D man skills he had in College, plus *knock on wood* he is still walking under his own power)

Liles 8.5 (expectation, OK on defense, Rafalski like on offense)

(He has been a happy shock to me. Great on offense with and without the puck, and stronger on defense than he gets credit for, his shot has been much more effective this year)

Salei 7 (expectation, play more? )

(was hoping for more out of Salei, but he has not been bad, nor great... that said, he and Leo are the best looking PAIR as a whole... neither is a great strength, but neither is a glaring weakness)

Clark 6 (expectation, to be more like Clark of 2 years ago)

(he has improved, the goal he scored seemed to have lifted him, would have given him a 4 on his game before then, he seems to have more confidence and is positionally stronger even. That said, he has a long way to go and also the most potential of any Avs D man to step up and improve the defense as a whole. Coaching staff needs to either find a way to make him more effective on the off side of the play on the PK or get a forward to sneak down to help him more as he has been burned too many times on the weak side on the PK, leaving the goalie's open side of the net exposed to the slam dunk pass)

Hannan 6 (expectation, to be more like Foote)

(he was supposed to be Foote lite. He was bad, just bad in the first 3 games. Much like Clark he has been slowly improving though. He needs to use the body more and be better defending guys without the puck infront of the net)


*note, these ratings are based on their expectations in my mind, not saying a 9 makes a guy a Pronger, don't compare them against each other even. Also, this is a 6 game snapshot... it means very little.

Drury_Sakic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2008, 01:21 AM
  #7
boz
Altitude Fan
 
boz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Country: Australia
Posts: 448
vCash: 500
tjarnqvist is doing a truly exceptional job. ...but seriously i want to see him in for a game..jus to make sure he has a pulse.

boz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2008, 03:20 PM
  #8
expatriated_texan
Freaking Loopy
 
expatriated_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Country: United States
Posts: 7,421
vCash: 500
Tough question because they obviously suck when on the PK but there is no denying their ability to help the offense when even strength.

Instead of breaking them down individually I feel more comfortable giving them all a solid C. There's nothing to write home about when playing a man down, they are terrible about clearing the area in front of the net of people, or clearing the puck out of the zone when under pressure be-it even strength or a man-down.

To be a bit more specific...I'm not a fan of Liles being the lone point man while Joe goes down low (I'm not a fan of Sakic on the point to begin with because I don't believe our goalies are strong enough for the onslaught that can happen) and I don't think Salei is using his shot enough. Leo seems to be the best all-around d-man but it's only a handfull of games into the season. Clark is...well he's Clark. He was way overpaid when he signed his contract but it's looking more and more reasonable by the day. Hannnan is no where near the guy I thought we were getting. Why did he hit Forsberg so hard and so often and frustrate the heck out of the AVs when playing against them and then all of a sudden start trying to play a position and stick game. He still needs to use his body a heck of a lot more. Foote was still a good pickup but man he needs to get nastier to play against. He might've adjusted to the new NHL too well for my liking. It's a solid group even strength, misused when a man-up but for some reason they completely suck on the PK.

expatriated_texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2008, 05:55 PM
  #9
bohlmeister
$$ For Sale $$
 
bohlmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
Tough question because they obviously suck when on the PK but there is no denying their ability to help the offense when even strength.

Instead of breaking them down individually I feel more comfortable giving them all a solid C. There's nothing to write home about when playing a man down, they are terrible about clearing the area in front of the net of people, or clearing the puck out of the zone when under pressure be-it even strength or a man-down.

To be a bit more specific...I'm not a fan of Liles being the lone point man while Joe goes down low (I'm not a fan of Sakic on the point to begin with because I don't believe our goalies are strong enough for the onslaught that can happen) and I don't think Salei is using his shot enough. Leo seems to be the best all-around d-man but it's only a handfull of games into the season. Clark is...well he's Clark. He was way overpaid when he signed his contract but it's looking more and more reasonable by the day. Hannnan is no where near the guy I thought we were getting. Why did he hit Forsberg so hard and so often and frustrate the heck out of the AVs when playing against them and then all of a sudden start trying to play a position and stick game. He still needs to use his body a heck of a lot more. Foote was still a good pickup but man he needs to get nastier to play against. He might've adjusted to the new NHL too well for my liking. It's a solid group even strength, misused when a man-up but for some reason they completely suck on the PK.
Because this is after the lock out and if you play like that you will take astronomical amounts of penalties. Making the big hit takes you out of position. Most of the time when people blame a play on Hannan it is because he has to cover 2 guys since the other d man is out of position. That is what i have noticed anyways.

bohlmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2008, 06:14 PM
  #10
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
Because this is after the lock out and if you play like that you will take astronomical amounts of penalties. Making the big hit takes you out of position. Most of the time when people blame a play on Hannan it is because he has to cover 2 guys since the other d man is out of position. That is what i have noticed anyways.
Is Hannan worth the $4.5 million we gave him? Probably not. Is he still consistently one of our best "shut down" defenseman? Yes. He isn't the pre-lockout Hannan I hoped to get, but he still makes more good plays than bad.

Huis Clos* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2008, 06:48 PM
  #11
Gumballhead
Registered User
 
Gumballhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hekic42 View Post
Is Hannan worth the $4.5 million we gave him? Probably not. Is he still consistently one of our best "shut down" defenseman? Yes. He isn't the pre-lockout Hannan I hoped to get, but he still makes more good plays than bad.
I don't notice Hannan all that much, and maybe that's one of the best things you can say about a hard working defenseman. To be honest the only time I ever remember him sticking out was when he gave Forsberg fits in the playoffs some years back.

I think we'd notice his absence a lot.

Gumballhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2008, 10:54 PM
  #12
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
 
WarriorOfGandhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,813
vCash: 500
Hannan's the type of guy you can throw onto the ice to eat up minutes and expect a minimum of mistakes. Of course, every player makes mistakes, and Hannan's just seem to be more obvious because he's paid the most and doesn't get free passes (because he DOESN'T HIT!!!!!1)

I agree that if he wasn't on the team, it would be obvious, especially when Salei or Clark is thrown on the PK

WarriorOfGandhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2008, 02:31 PM
  #13
ABasin
SelkeCaliber Defense
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stories View Post
On Defenese:
Liles: 6
Salei: 7
Foote: 9
Leopold: 7
Hannan: 8
Clark: 7
Foote and Clark are too high. Foote - 7, Clark - 5.

The Foote of a few years ago gets a 9. Not the one skating out there now.

-AB

ABasin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2008, 02:32 PM
  #14
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
All around Liles hands down has been our best defender through six games.

Huis Clos* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2008, 03:01 PM
  #15
Zodiac
Registered User
 
Zodiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,858
vCash: 500
Foote = 7/10
Liles = 7/10
Hannan = 6.5/10
Clark = 6/10
Leopold = 8/10
Salei = 7/10

Zodiac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2008, 03:46 PM
  #16
MaddMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 524
vCash: 500
Although I don't disagree with any of the above stats, I am thinking that the overall D has been decent enough.

The fact that the 2 goalies are in the bottom of the league in save percentage, while only giving up 24 shots per game while Raycroft is in net and 25.75 shots per game while Budaj is in net doesn't help any.
By contrast, Carey Price is getting 32.75 SPG average and Giguere is getting 31 SPG average.
Even an average .900 save percentage for our goalies would give us 10 less goals against.

Offensively I agree with all the comments. I would like to see some more crisp passes coming out of the defensive zone and utilize the Avs speed on forward.

MaddMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2008, 04:08 PM
  #17
El_Loco_Avs
Registered User
 
El_Loco_Avs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 7,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMan View Post
Although I don't disagree with any of the above stats, I am thinking that the overall D has been decent enough.

The fact that the 2 goalies are in the bottom of the league in save percentage, while only giving up 24 shots per game while Raycroft is in net and 25.75 shots per game while Budaj is in net doesn't help any.
By contrast, Carey Price is getting 32.75 SPG average and Giguere is getting 31 SPG average.
Even an average .900 save percentage for our goalies would give us 10 less goals against.

Offensively I agree with all the comments. I would like to see some more crisp passes coming out of the defensive zone and utilize the Avs speed on forward.
The problem when comparing high shot totals and low shot totals is that in certain situations the amount of high percentage shots barely differs.
The goalies do ofcourse need to improve.

El_Loco_Avs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2008, 10:55 AM
  #18
jfc64
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,130
vCash: 500
Stats: (if we weigh defense and offense equally when we have divided numbers):

Leopold! 46
Liles 43
Foote 43
Salei 42.5
Hannan 40
Clark 37


Last edited by jfc64: 10-25-2008 at 11:06 AM.
jfc64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2008, 12:44 AM
  #19
TwoPadStack
Gross Misconduct
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,333
vCash: 500
A bit a concerning trend...

TOI tonight against Buffalo:

Clark - 24:31
Hannan - 24:29
Liles - 23:37
Foote - 20:07
Salei - 19:01
Leopold - 15:54

Clark should not be first in ice time. He should be last. Leopold should not be last in ice time. He should be at the very worst 4th.

We(or just me?) want more Leo! He can skate well and move the puck, he can defend and use the body. More ice time!

TwoPadStack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2008, 01:45 AM
  #20
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
We(or just me?) want more Leo! He can skate well and move the puck, he can defend and use the body. More ice time!
I agree with you 100%. I realize Leopold hasn't been healthy the past couple of years, but even when he was on the ice I didn't think the coaching staff gave him enought ice time. He should be out there as much as possible. The fact that he still isn't getting first unit PP time with Liles is beyond me.

Huis Clos* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2008, 10:01 AM
  #21
ABasin
SelkeCaliber Defense
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
A bit a concerning trend...

TOI tonight against Buffalo:

Clark - 24:31
Hannan - 24:29
Liles - 23:37
Foote - 20:07
Salei - 19:01
Leopold - 15:54

Clark should not be first in ice time. He should be last.
No question. For some incomprehensible reason, this organization's management has had a fel**tio-fest over Clark. To be fair, Clark has played a few good games in a row here. But, every other defenseman on the roster is much better defensively (this year, that could even be said for Liles), and overall, Clark should be the 6th dman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Leopold should not be last in ice time. He should be at the very worst 4th.
I think he should be on the first pairing with Hannan.

-AB

ABasin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2008, 11:18 AM
  #22
Drury_Sakic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,350
vCash: 500
See, the problem is that yeah, Clark played the most ice time, and the Avs only give up 1 goal...

Now, not trying to take anything away from Leo, he is underused, but when Clark is on his game his flopping around and Hasek like defense blocking shots does work. When he is trying to be a stand up D man, it fails (see the first 3 games) Clark DOES turn the puck over with those weak clears at time, but he is better than people give him credit for.

In the last 2 games Clark has had his most Clark of 2 years ago games, and the defense has been much improved as a result. Add to that he is Footer's partner and you won't see him losing much ice time.

I like the pairs right now. It looks like each pair is locking in with each other and understanding how to play with each other better.

Drury_Sakic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2008, 12:05 PM
  #23
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
 
WarriorOfGandhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
I think he should be on the first pairing with Hannan.

WarriorOfGandhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2008, 12:29 PM
  #24
Horsehouse
Registered User
 
Horsehouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Country: United States
Posts: 2,252
vCash: 500
maybe leo gets minimal ice time due to his history of injuries. coaching doesn't want load him up work too much?

Horsehouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2008, 02:01 PM
  #25
Avsboy
Registered User
 
Avsboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,580
vCash: 500
In terms of overall value to the team:

Adam Foote: 9
JM Liles: 8
Jordan Leopold: 8
Scott Hannan: 8
Ruslan Salei: 7
Brett Clark: 7

Avsboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.