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Does anyone think Turco is in contention for the Vezina this year?

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Old
02-27-2004, 05:45 PM
  #1
-MrBean-
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Does anyone think Turco is in contention for the Vezina this year?

Or did his real shaky and ugly start this year knock him out of it?

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02-27-2004, 05:50 PM
  #2
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I don't think Turco is even in the top 5 to be honest. I like him, but I don't think Turco and Vezina fit in the same sentence this year.
Above him would be:
1. Brodeur
2. Luongo
3. Theodore
4. Kipprusoff
5. Cloutier
6. Raycroft
7. Vokoun
8. Cechmanek
9. Kahbibulin or Grahame
10. Belfour (maybe shoulf be higher up).

Of course this list is not definitive, just off the top of my head. Turco will win one day, just not any day this year.

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02-27-2004, 05:55 PM
  #3
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I think he is.. especially with Brodeur (30-17-10, 2.01, .916%) and Vokoun (28-22-6, 2.57, .908%) slowing down quite rapidly.

Turco is the sole reason for our "turn around", he ranks 2nd in the league in wins while his team doesn't even rank in the top 10 in terms of victories. The team has given up as many as they've scored, so that says something about his offensive support. He has also played the most games out of any netminder, by far, being on pace for 78 games. Hell, I honestly think he can be considered as a Hart candidate if he keeps this up. Few players have led their team like Turco has so far..

His numbers aren't exactly of 2002/2003 calibre, but solid nonetheless (28-19-11, 2.03, .910%). Quite on par with Brodeurs when he won it last season (2.02, .914%).

He should be a top 5 candidate as of now, with Brodeur, Nabokov, Luongo and Theodore as the others. Then again, Raycroft, Aebischer and such aren't far behind. This ain't as clearcut as last year, thats for sure...

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02-27-2004, 05:57 PM
  #4
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Chechmanek ahead of Belfour. Look out for flying monkey feces.

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02-27-2004, 06:02 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Chechmanek ahead of Belfour. Look out for flying monkey feces.
Hah, yes, sorry about that. I also left Aebischer off the list by accident. Even with the games played for Turco, I doubt he'll be a contender. Still, that is an amazing feat.

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02-27-2004, 06:04 PM
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No.

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02-27-2004, 06:36 PM
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Yes, I think he is.

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02-27-2004, 06:44 PM
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Like M=G said, his numbers are right up there with Brodeur's. But I personally think it should go to Luongo..he's been simply amazing this year.

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02-27-2004, 06:46 PM
  #9
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I think he is, or at least he should be. He's right up there in wins, and his #s are quite nice.

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02-27-2004, 07:51 PM
  #10
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No.

1.Brodeur/Luongo
2.Theodore

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02-27-2004, 08:04 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
No.

1.Brodeur/Luongo
2.Theodore
Exactly.

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02-27-2004, 08:08 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsfan09
Like M=G said, his numbers are right up there with Brodeur's. But I personally think it should go to Luongo..he's been simply amazing this year.
I agree. This award belongs to Luongo at this point.

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02-27-2004, 08:28 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
I don't think Turco is even in the top 5 to be honest. I like him, but I don't think Turco and Vezina fit in the same sentence this year.
Above him would be:
1. Brodeur
2. Luongo
3. Theodore
4. Kipprusoff
5. Cloutier
6. Raycroft
7. Vokoun
8. Cechmanek
9. Kahbibulin or Grahame
10. Belfour (maybe shoulf be higher up).

Of course this list is not definitive, just off the top of my head. Turco will win one day, just not any day this year.
I think its rediculous to not have Turco in your top10. Cechmanek? Cmon. I am not a Stars fan by any means, but Turco has been fabulous for Dallas after his brutal start. Throw in the fact that he had a broken foot recently and never missed a game.

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02-27-2004, 08:37 PM
  #14
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Can't be 25th in the league in save percentage and be even in the discussion.

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Old
02-27-2004, 08:38 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
I think its rediculous to not have Turco in your top10. Cechmanek? Cmon. I am not a Stars fan by any means, but Turco has been fabulous for Dallas after his brutal start. Throw in the fact that he had a broken foot recently and never missed a game.
yes, you're right. I started off doing a top 5 list and then just kinda kept going. I still say his chances are slim though.

edit: some reasons for my thinking.

He's 9th in GA see here ;
He's not even in the top 15 in Save %. See here
True, he's 2nd in wins. See here

But he's playing behind an allegedly 'upper echelon' team and is in a 3-way tie for 3rd in SOs despite, or perhaps because of, playing in 60 games thus far. See here

I still think he's a great goalie, this is just not his year unless something drastic happens.


Last edited by chicpea: 02-27-2004 at 08:51 PM.
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02-27-2004, 08:40 PM
  #16
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Luongo is obviously terrific. But right now he has a record of 20-25-12.

No way a goalie with a losing record wins the Vezina.

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02-27-2004, 08:51 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
I don't think Turco is even in the top 5 to be honest. I like him, but I don't think Turco and Vezina fit in the same sentence this year.
Above him would be:
1. Brodeur
2. Luongo
3. Theodore
4. Kipprusoff
5. Cloutier
6. Raycroft
7. Vokoun
8. Cechmanek
9. Kahbibulin or Grahame
10. Belfour (maybe shoulf be higher up).

Of course this list is not definitive, just off the top of my head. Turco will win one day, just not any day this year.
Chokemanek? I'd put Trevor Kidd ahead of him :p

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02-27-2004, 08:57 PM
  #18
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I don't think Cechmanek is quite as bad a goalie as you guys or Bobby Clarke makes out. Also, I posted some stats on pg1 of this thread if you want to have a look where Turco stands at the moment.

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02-27-2004, 09:06 PM
  #19
Higgy4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
I don't think Cechmanek is quite as bad a goalie as you guys or Bobby Clarke makes out. Also, I posted some stats on pg1 of this thread if you want to have a look where Turco stands at the moment.

I dont think he should be up for the Vezina, per se. But I think he is clearly one of the top 10 goalies in the league. His stats are down a bit from last year. But after his brutal first 10-15 games, he has been absolutely fabulous.

As far as the Vezina? I dont have a clue who will win it. Luongo is the best goalie in the league, in my opinion. But he lost again tonight dropping him to 20-26-12. Unless the Panthers go on a streak here, I dont think he will win it.

Beats me. But I see alot of people on these boards who dont like Turco, and I simply cant figure it out. This is his 4th year now, and he has put up great numbers every year.

I know stats mean alot, but this guy is a GAMER! You have to really appreciate his excitement and intensity for the game. He loves to play.

Thats all...just my opinion.

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02-27-2004, 09:10 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
I dont think he should be up for the Vezina, per se. But I think he is clearly one of the top 10 goalies in the league. His stats are down a bit from last year. But after his brutal first 10-15 games, he has been absolutely fabulous.

As far as the Vezina? I dont have a clue who will win it. Luongo is the best goalie in the league, in my opinion. But he lost again tonight dropping him to 20-26-12. Unless the Panthers go on a streak here, I dont think he will win it.

Beats me. But I see alot of people on these boards who dont like Turco, and I simply cant figure it out. This is his 4th year now, and he has put up great numbers every year.
This is not a personal attack by me on Turco by any means. I have him in my pool and he was an early pick too! I'd even say when he's on his game, he's one of the top 3 or 4 in the league. It's just that this year his whole team has been way too streaky. Like I said earlier, I firmly believe he'll win the V one day.

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02-27-2004, 09:16 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
This is not a personal attack by me on Turco by any means. I have him in my pool and he was an early pick too! I'd even say when he's on his game, he's one of the top 3 or 4 in the league. It's just that this year his whole team has been way too streaky. Like I said earlier, I firmly believe he'll win the V one day.

Fair enough.

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02-28-2004, 03:01 AM
  #22
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1)Luongo
2)Brodeur
3)Theodore
4)Kiprusoff (if he plays enough games and maintains his play)
5)Aebischer
6)Nabokov
7)Weekes
8)Turco
9)Belfour
10)Raycroft

Turco will not win Vezina. Giguere, who is struggling, has a higher save%!!!

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02-28-2004, 03:45 AM
  #23
Ajacied
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
It's just that this year his whole team has been way too streaky.
That only makes his case so much stronger. He's recording wins on an average team. A team that has the closest goal differential in the NHL, meaning its harder to get the W.

Also, when ranking GAA and Save% among goalies, please consider a mimimum number of games played which is always 25. That currently ranks Turco 4th in GAA, 12th in save % and 2nd in wins. He's doing exactly what Brodeur did last season, hell, their numbers are even indentical and Brodeur won the award with a save% below .915..

I'll compare them for you:
_______________________


Marty Turco - Plays in front of an average team this season. Streaky, inconsistant and quite pitiful offensively.

Games played: 61
Numbers: 29-19-11, 2.01 GAA, .912%
Goals scored: 25th
Team wins: 14th
_______________________

1. Brodeur - No arguing from me. Always a legit candidate but has not been much better than Turco.

games played: 58
Numbers: 30-18-10, 2.02 GAA, .916%
Goals scored: 18th
Team wins: 6th

2. Luongo - I like him, I think he can be NHL's best someday but unless he gets his team into the playoffs, he'd likely won't even be considered.

Games played: 58
Numbers: 20-26-12, 2.24 GAA, .935%.
Goals scored: 24th
Team wins: 22nd

3. Theodore - Solid candidate, I would've picked him as well.

Games played: 54
Numbers: 25-23-5, 2.18 GAA, .922%
Goals scored: 17th
Team wins: 9th

4. Kipprusoff - Has not even played the limit, will likely not even get considered due to his low amount of games. Won't even compare..

5. Cloutier - High octane offense certainly helps, but he's been pretty steady nonetheless.

Games played: 47
Numbers: 27-18-3, 2.27 GAA, .915%
Goals scored: 5th
Team wins: 5th

6. Raycroft - Impressive rookie, frontrunner for the Calder as well as being a Vezina candidate. Carried the Bruins all season.

Games played: 44
Numbers: 21-15-7, 1.97 GAA, .930%
Goals scored: 16th
Team wins: 12th

7. Vokoun - Huge funk as of late, numbers aren't Vezina worthy.

Games played: 56
Numbers: 28-22-6, 2.57 GAA, .908%
Goals scored: 14th
Team wins: 10th

8. Cechmanek - *PAFF*.. Sorry.. that was me falling out of my chair.

Games played: 44
Numbers: 18-16-6, 2.43 GAA, .907%
Goals scored: 10th
Team wins: 20th

9. Kahbibulin or Grahame - Both play for a better team than Turco, yet their numbers aren't better. Won't even consider a backup like Grahame. Hasn't even played the limit.

Games played: 41
Numbers: 19-15-6, 2.20 GAA, .907%
Goals scored: 3rd
Team wins: 4th

10. Belfour. - Not sure.. he's been solid when healthy..

Games played: 44
Numbers: 24-15-5, 2.17 GAA, .915%
Goals scored: 7th
Team wins: 3rd

Most of these netminders are about on pace for 55 games. The same number Turco had last season, and no one is even close with the stats he had than. Yet he still didn't win it. Games played appears to be a pretty big factor according to the ones voting, more so than the actual stats. There's only one (!) goalie with a better save% as well as GAA. But he has played in nearly 20 games less in comparison with Turco.

Now tell me again with a straight face how Turco is not even a top 5 candidate, much less not even top 10.

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02-28-2004, 04:04 AM
  #24
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Can't believe Raycroft is so highly rated. I like him, he's had a strong year but Vezina candidate? I've been far more impressed by Dipietro on an injury riddled Islanders team than Raycroft.

Luongo is my pick though, he's been the best goaltender in the league this year. Marty a close 2nd.

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02-28-2004, 06:52 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
edit: some reasons for my thinking.

He's 9th in GA see here ;
He's not even in the top 15 in Save %. See here
True, he's 2nd in wins. See here
Of course people tried to use that exact same argument against Brodeur last year. What it comes down to is that Turco can't win the Vezina the year he has the best stats in the modern era and can't win the Vezina when he replicates the stats of the goalie who won the Vezina the same year Turco had the best stats in the modern era. It's pretty damn ridiculous if you believed Brodeur deserved it last year and won't even consider Turco this year. That said, while I think last year should have been Turco easily; I don't think he deserves the honor this year despite being great.

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