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12-20-2008, 11:44 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by SirJordanStaal11 View Post
Pretty interesting. I'm not sure if I would want Jack Johnson for Staal. Still interesting.
Shero's wasn't sure either obviously. I can see pro's and con's of both. If something was added to Johnson to sweeten the pot I would have strongly considered taking it. Have to remember, Johnson didn't play in the NHL until 2007 season, so something of value would have to be added in. What that peice would have been, I'm not too sure.

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12-20-2008, 11:48 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Shero's wasn't sure either obviously. I can see pro's and con's of both. If something was added to Johnson to sweeten the pot I would have strongly considered taking it. Have to remember, Johnson didn't play in the NHL until 2007 season, so something of value would have to be added in. What that peice would have been, I'm not too sure.
The rumor is that Shero wanted Ladd along with Johnson. Carolina refused.

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12-20-2008, 11:58 PM
  #503
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I'm still curious why Staal was so highly valued coming into the 06 draft. He didn't light up the OHL really. I guess 6 ft 4 plus the name.


It's kinda wierd that everyone on here clamors, or used to clamor, for defense when we have so many good young ones now. If we had Jack Johnson plus Gonchar, Whitney, Orpik, Letang and Goligoski that would be an overflow of strong defensive prospects.

I guess we have finally solved that problem, at least.

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12-21-2008, 12:10 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Sid over Alex View Post
Just a few players to spark conversation more than anything.

Gabby would be a mistake for several reasons, not the least of which is his injury list that goes on forever.

Havlat won't get as much as you may think, but he's also an injury prone kind of guy.

Kovalchuk gives you one and a half season's worth of conversation time to get him to buy into the system and manuever the salary of the team to comfortably fit him in. I'm actually serious about getting him and I'll bet that I might have a few people on my side with that one. Not you...but someone.

Since you're so interested in putting me under the microscope to discredit me tonight, I'll give you my other guy and we'll see if you like him.

Marty St. Louis. He falls under the same UFA after next year banner as Kovy but won't come with the same pricetag. Once again shero has plenty of time to talk to his agent and manuever some money on the team to accomodate him.

What do you think? I'm I still a moron?

(I'm just messing with you, by the way )
why do you feel like you need to target and go after maurice richard and art ross candidates? This team is not in the position salary cap wise to get something like that... The biggest problem I have with the trade staal crowd is they have to bring up these fantasy wingers that we have absolutely no chance in hell of maintaining on our roster in any effective manner without having AHL players filling in the rest. Sorry but trading staal for an even worse cap headache does not help a thing.

We already have Crosby and Malkin making 8.7 mill, we got a big time goaltender getting 5 mill, we got a fairly expensive blueline... we cannot afford a big name winger.. sorry, but we cant. You can go play NHL09 and trade for those guys all you want but it wont happen in real life.

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12-21-2008, 12:15 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
why do you feel like you need to target and go after maurice richard and art ross candidates? This team is not in the position salary cap wise to get something like that... The biggest problem I have with the trade staal crowd is they have to bring up these fantasy wingers that we have absolutely no chance in hell of maintaining on our roster in any effective manner without having AHL players filling in the rest. Sorry but trading staal for an even worse cap headache does not help a thing.

We already have Crosby and Malkin making 8.7 mill, we got a big time goaltender getting 5 mill, we got a fairly expensive blueline... we cannot afford a big name winger.. sorry, but we cant. You can go play NHL09 and trade for those guys all you want but it wont happen in real life.
I'm not so sure about this because we were allegedly ready to give Hossa 7 million. And the main reason people were so in arms over potentially doing that is because it meant we couldn't probably keep Staal.

Actually that right there makes me think more than anything that Staal might be expendable in Shero's eyes. Surely if he intended to keep Hossa than he was willing to part with Staal, because we probably couldn't keep Staal in addition to Hossa/Sid/Malkin.

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12-21-2008, 12:25 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by SirJordanStaal11 View Post
I'm not so sure about this because we were allegedly ready to give Hossa 7 million. And the main reason people were so in arms over potentially doing that is because it meant we couldn't probably keep Staal.

Actually that right there makes me think more than anything that Staal might be expendable in Shero's eyes. Surely if he intended to keep Hossa than he was willing to part with Staal, because we probably couldn't keep Staal in addition to Hossa/Sid/Malkin.
and after Hossa left we then signed Fleury to 5 mill, Orpik to 3.75, Malkin to 8.7 and random other short term contracts. The idea of another 7 mill winger is gone. If you think our winger depth is bad now, you wait and see what it would look like with 7+ mill being tied up in one winger.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=PIT
look at our cap situation. Notice Malkin's contract kicking in next year..

We are in a huge pinch and I would rather have Staal at 4 mill than some random 4 mill winger that you guys can dream up.

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12-21-2008, 12:27 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
It's not just on the PK, man. Come on. He's the first guy back all the time. Some coaches try to teach that to some players and they never learn it. This guy was already a finished product defensively in his draft year. The problem now is everybody wants him to be even better than he already is. He was an overnight sensation with the 29 goals, so now everybody wants to uncover all of his warts.

There isn't a team in the NHL who wouldn't take a 20-year-old shutdown center who is on pace for a second 29-goal campaign out of three. And nobody was saying anything when the Cooke-Staal-Kennedy line was put together. Staal is clearly missing Kennedy's energy and offensive ability right now.

With Jordan it's a matter of patience. We NEED to be patient, because it will be worth it imo.
You're too good a man for me to argue with you anymore on this one. We just see different things on the Staal front.

I know what your point is but the thing that I can't shake is that I saw him at his very first practice and he looked like he was a bit of a coaster and nothing has happened since that day to change my mind.

He's not as bad as I make him out to be and he's not as good as you seem to think. My best guess is that he's somewhere in the middle. I agree with being patient, but not at $4 million a season.

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12-21-2008, 12:37 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
and after Hossa left we then signed Fleury to 5 mill, Orpik to 3.75, Malkin to 8.7 and random other short term contracts. The idea of another 7 mill winger is gone. If you think our winger depth is bad now, you wait and see what it would look like with 7+ mill being tied up in one winger.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=PIT
look at our cap situation. Notice Malkin's contract kicking in next year..

We are in a huge pinch and I would rather have Staal at 4 mill than some random 4 mill winger that you guys can dream up.
Well assuming we lose Gill(2mil) Boucher(2mil) that covers Malkin's contract. Then it's a matter of what to do with the roughly 6 million we are saving by not re-signing Satan and Feds.

Trading Staal would free up 2million or Whitney would free up 4 million. This would leave anywhere from 8-10 million to get either one high priced winger and a bargain or several solid winger types.

Shero has wiggle room, but it most likely requires trading Staal or Whitney. If he does not do that, then you are quite correct that come next year we will be stuck with similar guys to Satan and Feds on our wings.

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12-21-2008, 12:37 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Sid over Alex View Post
You're too good a man for me to argue with you anymore on this one. We just see different things on the Staal front.

I know what your point is but the thing that I can't shake is that I saw him at his very first practice and he looked like he was a bit of a coaster and nothing has happened since that day to change my mind.

He's not as bad as I make him out to be and he's not as good as you seem to think. My best guess is that he's somewhere in the middle. I agree with being patient, but not at $4 million a season.
I see the coasting in him too, and I get frustrated with his lack of physicality and hustle. There are things I don't like about his game sure... but I am trying to be a realist here. If we are going to trade him we need an equal young player with potential similar to his. You're talking about all star established wingers on heavy contracts, that just doesnt fit the bill here.

If you were to suggest something like Staal for Kessel (lol before this season) then I would be more on board, or perhaps even Staal for Bobby Ryan+.

At least we would get a player that we could have a couple contracts with before they hit UFA and ship off to another team. But also know that realistically any "winger" we get will most likely only match similar numbers to the production that Staal currently gives us out of a 3rd line center spot.

If you were to add up Staal + winger, in this case lets use Satan. Staal is likely to do 50+ and Satan is likely to do 60+ giving about 110 points total. The good thing about Staal is his points are largely self produced, meaning he isnt getting them on the PP or from Crosby/Malkin, but rather creating them with his fellow 3rd liners.

Take the Winger+ talbot or other random 3rd line center and lets say you get a PPG winger so thats 80+ and say Talbot does 20-30ish so lets go high and say 30 thats 110 total points. That doesnt even factor in the asset he is on the PK and the defensive qualities he has. To me, Staal on the team does more overall for the team than trading him off for a slight upgrade.

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12-21-2008, 12:40 AM
  #510
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And to be quite honest, I also would not object to Staal holding out for more money and us getting some picks out of the ordeal. Shero doesn't even have to trade him. If we let him get to rfa and someone signs him for enough money we will get a slew of picks.


Shero has options.

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12-21-2008, 12:42 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by SirJordanStaal11 View Post
Well assuming we lose Gill(2mil) Boucher(2mil) that covers Malkin's contract. Then it's a matter of what to do with the roughly 6 million we are saving by not re-signing Satan and Feds.

Trading Staal would free up 2million or Whitney would free up 4 million. This would leave anywhere from 8-10 million to get either one high priced winger and a bargain or several solid winger types.

Shero has wiggle room, but it most likely requires trading Staal or Whitney. If he does not do that, then you are quite correct that come next year we will be stuck with similar guys to Satan and Feds on our wings.
you arent factoring in Scuderi's raise, sykora's raise, talbot's 400k raise, TFK's 300k raise, Alex Goligoski's probably 2+ mill raise

soo, what you have to work with is more along the lines of 3.5 mill to 5.5 mill to fill 3 wing spots. So figuring guys like Fedotenko run around 2.2 mill and guys like satan typically go for 3.5-4.0 mill I think we can see the situation we'll be in..

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12-21-2008, 12:44 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I see the coasting in him too, and I get frustrated with his lack of physicality and hustle. There are things I don't like about his game sure... but I am trying to be a realist here. If we are going to trade him we need an equal young player with potential similar to his. You're talking about all star established wingers on heavy contracts, that just doesnt fit the bill here.

If you were to suggest something like Staal for Kessel (lol before this season) then I would be more on board, or perhaps even Staal for Bobby Ryan+.

At least we would get a player that we could have a couple contracts with before they hit UFA and ship off to another team. But also know that realistically any "winger" we get will most likely only match similar numbers to the production that Staal currently gives us out of a 3rd line center spot.

If you were to add up Staal + winger, in this case lets use Satan. Staal is likely to do 50+ and Satan is likely to do 60+ giving about 110 points total. The good thing about Staal is his points are largely self produced, meaning he isnt getting them on the PP or from Crosby/Malkin, but rather creating them with his fellow 3rd liners.

Take the Winger+ talbot or other random 3rd line center and lets say you get a PPG winger so thats 80+ and say Talbot does 20-30ish so lets go high and say 30 thats 110 total points. That doesnt even factor in the asset he is on the PK and the defensive qualities he has. To me, Staal on the team does more overall for the team than trading him off for a slight upgrade.
Definitely some good points here. I understand your thinking and I'm glad that you see the same coasting that I have for three years. My thought is that Staal at $4 million impeeds on our ability to get anyone else to help out on the wings, which is clearly something that we need.

I like being strong up the middle and as far as third line centers go, Staal is a dandy one. I just question his work ethic and I think we need some more guys that hustle and play the full 60 mins. The idea of paying a crapload of money to a guy that I see half-assing it on a regular basis is just not sitting well with me.

I think another reason I'm so hard into trading him is that he may be the only real chip we have to dangle besides Whitney and I'm not for trading him at all.

I'm just like you, man. I just want to see this team get better and theorizing ways to go about it. Shero isn't on my speed dial...not yet anyway.

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12-21-2008, 12:46 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I see the coasting in him too, and I get frustrated with his lack of physicality and hustle. There are things I don't like about his game sure... but I am trying to be a realist here. If we are going to trade him we need an equal young player with potential similar to his. You're talking about all star established wingers on heavy contracts, that just doesnt fit the bill here.

If you were to suggest something like Staal for Kessel (lol before this season) then I would be more on board, or perhaps even Staal for Bobby Ryan+.

At least we would get a player that we could have a couple contracts with before they hit UFA and ship off to another team. But also know that realistically any "winger" we get will most likely only match similar numbers to the production that Staal currently gives us out of a 3rd line center spot.

If you were to add up Staal + winger, in this case lets use Satan. Staal is likely to do 50+ and Satan is likely to do 60+ giving about 110 points total. The good thing about Staal is his points are largely self produced, meaning he isnt getting them on the PP or from Crosby/Malkin, but rather creating them with his fellow 3rd liners.

Take the Winger+ talbot or other random 3rd line center and lets say you get a PPG winger so thats 80+ and say Talbot does 20-30ish so lets go high and say 30 thats 110 total points. That doesnt even factor in the asset he is on the PK and the defensive qualities he has. To me, Staal on the team does more overall for the team than trading him off for a slight upgrade.
I agree with you here for the most part...especially about going after some fantasy superstar winger. The second option you gave giving 110 points though does it with a new winger. The good part of that is it gives your huge investment franchise center someone good to play with. I do believe though the Pens will play out this season and the if Staal isnt signed by the draft, he will be traded then. Heres a few ideas off the top of my head.

Staal for Versteeg and Skille (unlikely because they would prob rather dump Havlat)
Staal for Bobby Ryan+
Staa for Horton+

OR dare I say it....trade Malkin....Sid and Geno are almost too good that they take up too much cap space. Look at Philly. They have 2 very good centers (Richards and Carter) that are great players but dont kill the cap. This allows them to fill out all their lines with good wingers. But yes, I hate them too.

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12-21-2008, 12:47 AM
  #514
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you arent factoring in Scuderi's raise, sykora's raise, talbot's 400k raise, TFK's 300k raise, Alex Goligoski's probably 2+ mill raise

soo, what you have to work with is more along the lines of 3.5 mill to 5.5 mill to fill 3 wing spots. So figuring guys like Fedotenko run around 2.2 mill and guys like satan typically go for 3.5-4.0 mill I think we can see the situation we'll be in..
Sykora won't get a raise. If he does, I don't see it coming from us.

Scuderi will get a slight raise at best. Losing Gill and Boucher still leaves us with 7 NHL defensemen so he is hardly in a position to demand much.

You have a point, though. Which is why Shero will have to make a decision soon. We simply don't have the cap room to sign good wingers without trading away from a position of strength(defense, or center).

The question Shero has to ask himself is: Does he want a team with 3 good centers with horrible winger depth and a solid defense + good goalie or does he want weaker third and fourth lines but really strong top two lines and a slightly weaker defense.

I don't know the answer. I know that I would rather have better wingers than hold onto Staal if it came to that. Would that be better? I don't know.

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12-21-2008, 12:48 AM
  #515
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I agree with you here for the most part...especially about going after some fantasy superstar winger. The second option you gave giving 110 points though does it with a new winger. The good part of that is it gives your huge investment franchise center someone good to play with. I do believe though the Pens will play out this season and the if Staal isnt signed by the draft, he will be traded then. Heres a few ideas off the top of my head.

Staal for Versteeg and Skille (unlikely because they would prob rather dump Havlat)
Staal for Bobby Ryan+
Staa for Horton+

OR dare I say it....trade Malkin....Sid and Geno are almost too good that they take up too much cap space. Look at Philly. They have 2 very good centers (Richards and Carter) that are great players but dont kill the cap. This allows them to fill out all their lines with good wingers. But yes, I hate them too.
We absolutely can't trade Malkin because there is no way we could get a fair return for him. I don't even know if there would be a fair return for him.

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12-21-2008, 12:53 AM
  #516
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We absolutely can't trade Malkin because there is no way we could get a fair return for him. I don't even know if there would be a fair return for him.
I agree. Malkin is my favorite player, but was just trying to make a point. Two 8.7 million cap hits is tough.

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12-21-2008, 12:54 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by StrakaLangKovy View Post
I agree with you here for the most part...especially about going after some fantasy superstar winger. The second option you gave giving 110 points though does it with a new winger. The good part of that is it gives your huge investment franchise center someone good to play with. I do believe though the Pens will play out this season and the if Staal isnt signed by the draft, he will be traded then. Heres a few ideas off the top of my head.

Staal for Versteeg and Skille (unlikely because they would prob rather dump Havlat)
Staal for Bobby Ryan+
Staa for Horton+

OR dare I say it....trade Malkin....Sid and Geno are almost too good that they take up too much cap space. Look at Philly. They have 2 very good centers (Richards and Carter) that are great players but dont kill the cap. This allows them to fill out all their lines with good wingers. But yes, I hate them too.
only player, or player/s that I would trade malkin for would be ovechkin which would be an even worse cap hit and so would the 2 stars that would come via trade anyways.

I am not a fan of versteeg/skille Neither have really proven anything on the nhl level yet. They dont exactly have a high draft pedigree either to have that vouch for them, just some speculation. Versteeg started off decent but has become rather mediocre lately. Hell, Staal has put up better results playing in less desirable situations than Versteeg has.

They arent quite the quality young player for quality young player I was thinking about.

Bobby Ryan + though is a possibility. Though he is still quite raw NHL wise. He isnt getting much icetime.

This is the thing, we know what we got with Staal. With these other guys we really don't because they havent done much on the NHL level and we're speculating on their junior or AHL performances... I don't really want to Gamble Staal for that.

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12-21-2008, 12:58 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by SirJordanStaal11 View Post
Sykora won't get a raise. If he does, I don't see it coming from us.

Scuderi will get a slight raise at best. Losing Gill and Boucher still leaves us with 7 NHL defensemen so he is hardly in a position to demand much.

You have a point, though. Which is why Shero will have to make a decision soon. We simply don't have the cap room to sign good wingers without trading away from a position of strength(defense, or center).

The question Shero has to ask himself is: Does he want a team with 3 good centers with horrible winger depth and a solid defense + good goalie or does he want weaker third and fourth lines but really strong top two lines and a slightly weaker defense.

I don't know the answer. I know that I would rather have better wingers than hold onto Staal if it came to that. Would that be better? I don't know.
Sykora most certainly will get a raise... A 60+ point 25+ goal winger who still has gas in the tank is pretty much a 4Mill+ UFA sign... I was being generous to us in only giving him a 1 mill dollar raise to 3.5 mill.

Scuderi will likely see a 1 mill dollar raise, and if you are letting the other 2 dmen go then you'll be stuck paying scuds 1.7mill +.

but to answer your question.. I think Shero will go with center depth. Especially with that 3rd center gives you a mix of offense and defense that the other 2 stars dont give. It's not just points staal is here for, he is the go to guy on the PK and as a very very young man he was the shut-down center for the team. Thats a huge load and as he gets older he's only going to get better in that department.

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12-21-2008, 01:03 AM
  #519
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I still think it makes sense to make a trade regardless of whether Staal is the piece or not. Reason being, we also have a glut of good NHL defensemen. I don't think any team needs more than one good NHL powerplay quarterback. We have at least two already considering Gonchar and Whitney. This makes basically any of our defensemen outside of Orpik expendable if the right return could be had.


I don't think this would be turning a strength to a weakness either because we literally have way too many defensemen. We do not need all of them.

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12-21-2008, 01:07 AM
  #520
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Originally Posted by SirJordanStaal11 View Post
I still think it makes sense to make a trade regardless of whether Staal is the piece or not. Reason being, we also have a glut of good NHL defensemen. I don't think any team needs more than one good NHL powerplay quarterback. We have at least two already considering Gonchar and Whitney. This makes basically any of our defensemen outside of Orpik expendable if the right return could be had.


I don't think this would be turning a strength to a weakness either because we literally have way too many defensemen. We do not need all of them.
I actually would like the idea of us having a defense made up of

Gonchar Orpik
Whitney Letang
Goligoski Boucher


Want to know why San Jose is so damn good this year? Scoring from their blueline. They got Erhoff, Vlasic, Boyle, and Blake all solid puckmovers.

The key element is they got a coach who doesnt blow ass and knows how to use the D.

I want us to ice a mobile puck-moving d. I think that would actually help our offense a hell of a lot more than having Crosby with whatever elite winger while having Scuderi and Gill on the blueline failing to keep the puck in.

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12-21-2008, 01:10 AM
  #521
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I actually would like the idea of us having a defense made up of

Gonchar Orpik
Whitney Letang
Goligoski Boucher


Want to know why San Jose is so damn good this year? Scoring from their blueline. They got Erhoff, Vlasic, Boyle, and Blake all solid puckmovers.

The key element is they got a coach who doesnt blow ass and knows how to use the D.

I want us to ice a mobile puck-moving d. I think that would actually help our offense a hell of a lot more than having Crosby with whatever elite winger while having Scuderi and Gill on the blueline failing to keep the puck in.
I dunno that defense would still look really good even with one of Whitney, Tanger or Goligoski not in it.

I really don't even mind Scuderi as our 6th dman. We don't need him and Gill though.

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12-21-2008, 01:11 AM
  #522
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Plus San Jose is just kinda stacked period :p. I mean they have Setoguchi on wing, two really good centers and they have guys like Cheecho and Pavelski too.


They have a tremendous defense and a lot of depth everywhere.

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12-21-2008, 01:20 AM
  #523
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Originally Posted by SirJordanStaal11 View Post
I dunno that defense would still look really good even with one of Whitney, Tanger or Goligoski not in it.

I really don't even mind Scuderi as our 6th dman. We don't need him and Gill though.
why would you need to do that though? Our forwards really are quite adequate.. I mean you look at the top offensive team in the league the sharks and they don't exactly have crazy forward depth. Setoguchi is doing well, Thornton, Marleau, Clowe? Pavelski?

Crosby, Malkin, Satan, Sykora, Staal... Its pretty damn similar.. except one big difference, the coaching, and us not having Gonchar and Whitney back. But you'll notice in San Jose their 4 puckmovers factor in on a lot of their offense. In their top 10 scorers, 4 dmen factor in... on our team 2 out of our top 10 are dmen, and our top scoring dman (goligoski) wouldnt even make san jose's top 10...


Basically our team is relying way too much on forwards to do all the offense and not incorporating the defense at all. In many cases our coach will stick Scuderi and Gill in the back and and try putting Crosby and Malkin together and it still fails.. why? Because we got 2 guys skating by center ice instead of getting in the zone and being possible outlets for passes and scoring threats. Instead crosby is left with 1-2 options for pass instead of the 5 like he should be.

When Crosby and Malkin cant score like that, what makes you think Crosby and any random lesser skilled winger is going to do better? A better coach and a healthy defense and I bet we wouldnt be hearing people complain about wingers anymore.

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12-21-2008, 01:22 AM
  #524
Gooch
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Originally Posted by SirJordanStaal11 View Post
Plus San Jose is just kinda stacked period :p. I mean they have Setoguchi on wing, two really good centers and they have guys like Cheecho and Pavelski too.


They have a tremendous defense and a lot of depth everywhere.
Cheechoo is not even factoring at all in their offense, he is playing in the bottom 6, a shell of his fluke season. Pascal Dupuis and Max Talbot are doing better than he is..

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12-21-2008, 01:44 AM
  #525
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by Sid over Alex View Post
I stand by that too. I don't feel the need to run with the rest of the sheep.

I know he's a gamble, being that I'm not an idiot, but at the same time his value on the ice may be worth the risk at this point.

Everyone talks about team chemistry and all that but I'm not seeing much meshing as it is right now. Hell, even the Bulls dynasty included Dennis Rodman for the last couple years. It becomes the job of the team leaders and the coaching staff to reel in the loose cannons and harness their ability into a product that works.

The only reason that getting Avery is a bad idea is because we don't have the veteran leadership nor the coaching staff to control his circus act. Other than that, I would kill to have him on this team.
Yes, if only the Pens had a captain the quality of Steve Yzerman or a coach with the presence of Scotty Bowman, they'd be sure to control him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid over Alex View Post
I want you to know that this hurts because I usually agree with your points of view, but I really have to question what games you're watching if you really think that Staal has the ability to dominate anything.

Leadership qualities? If he is the leader of anyone than all they will learn is how to be a lazy sack that coasts on the forecheck and gets beat to every single loose puck. He's a cherry picker and that's about it.

Standing in front of the net on the PP does not make you worth $4 million a year. If so, then sign my ass up because I do the same thing for my roller hockey team and I'm a hell of a lot more physical than he is and I score more.

Big body...ok and?

Don't care that he's 20 and I don't care that he's good on the PK. He is one of the most replaceable members of this team. Especially, if he's fool enough to demand anything in the same zip code as $4 million.

If Shero signs him for that then he's immediately discredited after all the good he's done since day 1. At least with me, for whatever that's worth....
So Staal is not worth Ryder money, and would be a fool to even ask for anything close to it. Gotcha.

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