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Old
01-04-2009, 09:35 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Not even close to being true. I'm not going to waste either of our time disputing the leader part, as it's more a matter of opinion than anything, but you're way off on the others.

Malone is solid in his own zone. Hunter is very good. Anyone who's seen Hunter play on a regular basis will agree.

As for the hits, well, I can prove you wrong right now.

07-08: Hunter - 256 hits (3rd in NHL), Malone - 138 hits (29th in NHL)
06-07: Hunter - 246 hits (3rd in NHL), Malone - 87 hits (80th in NHL)
05-06: Hunter - 230 hits (2nd in NHL), Malone - 110 hits (39th in NHL)

Massive difference.

And he scored 111 points while Malone piled up 126 over those 3 years.

This season Hunter is less of a one trick pony, that's why his hits are down and his points are up. Anybody who has seen him play would know that. He figured out what Malone did a long time ago, choose your hits. How many times last season did Malone line a guy up for a bone crushing check and pull up and gently steal the puck away? Hunter isn't that far removed from his tunnel vision awareness but for him 99 hits this time of year is low, and Malone has 84 hits. Both are on pace for 57 points, but my money is on Malone to finish stronger.

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01-04-2009, 09:35 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Not even close to being true. I'm not going to waste either of our time disputing the leader part, as it's more a matter of opinion than anything, but you're way off on the others.

Malone is solid in his own zone. Hunter is very good. Anyone who's seen Hunter play on a regular basis will agree.

As for the hits, well, I can prove you wrong right now.

07-08: Hunter - 256 hits (3rd in NHL), Malone - 138 hits (29th in NHL)
06-07: Hunter - 246 hits (3rd in NHL), Malone - 87 hits (80th in NHL)
05-06: Hunter - 230 hits (2nd in NHL), Malone - 110 hits (39th in NHL)

Massive difference.
The Penguins also have the puck waaay more than the Islanders do, speaking over the last 3 seasons, so Malone won't have as many opportunities to finish checks as Hunter would. Some barns are more liberal with awarding hits too, don't know if Nassau Coliseum is one of 'em.

I like Hunter as a player, I think he's pretty even with Malone on the ice but his greatest advantage is his contract.

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01-04-2009, 09:36 PM
  #903
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Hunter's contract has a huge impact on his value, not on the quality of player he is.
I obviously agree. To me however, when you say x-player Lite, you mean that said player is a less competent version of the one you're comparing to. That's what I disagree with, as I think they're even, just different. Considering that you're not too far from agreeing on this, lets just leave it there .

...and of course, given their current contracts, Malone doesn't make sense and Hunter is a dream. No arguments there.

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01-04-2009, 09:36 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
Of course I wouldn't make the deal if Malone made $2 million, for the simple fact that Hunter is head and shoulders better than Malone.
So now he is head and shoulders above Malone? That's laughable.

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01-04-2009, 09:36 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Hunter's contract has a huge impact on his value, not on the quality of player he is. Assuming Malone and Hunter were priced the same, it'd be very close but I might still prefer Hunter. Assuming their prices are as they stand, Hunter is underpaid and Malone is overpaid.

Anyway, I'm not sure why people think Malone is a better offensive player. Does he have more pure skill? Probably. Does he utilize it as well as Hunter? No. Compare their levels of production and their linemates. Malone's slight advantage in offense is negated by the fact that Hunter has to play for the Islanders. When they were both breaking into the league, Hunter was considered to be the superior player. Hell, I remember people were calculating how much Malone was worth based on what Hunter got after their rookie seasons.
I could really care less about this hunter/malone pissing match but... Malone put up slightly better numbers while playing on some penguin teams that were just as bad as the islanders if not worse than them so I just felt that needed to be addressed.

I wouldnt mind having Hunter, just not at the expense of Staal. He certainly is the type of winger that should be targeted with our lesser trade bait and our UFA signings though, and hopefully our drafting as well.

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01-04-2009, 09:36 PM
  #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinGuru View Post
And he scored 111 points while Malone piled up 126 over those 3 years.

This season Hunter is less of a one trick pony, that's why his hits are down and his points are up. Anybody who has seen him play would know that. He figured out what Malone did a long time ago, choose your hits. How many times last season did Malone line a guy up for a bone crushing check and pull up and gently steal the puck away? Hunter isn't that far removed from his tunnel vision awareness but for him 99 hits this time of year is low, and Malone has 84 hits. Both are on pace for 57 points, but my money is on Malone to finish stronger.
And yet you claimed they hit at the same rate when clearly they don't, but rather than admit you were wrong, you tried to bring up a comparison of points? Uh, what?

Your analysis betrays the fact that you know very, very little about Trent Hunter.

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01-04-2009, 09:38 PM
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
I obviously agree. To me however, when you say x-player Lite, you mean that said player is a less competent version of y-player. That's what I disagree with, as I think they're even, just different. Considering that you're not too far from agreeing on this, lets just leave it there .

...and of course, given their current contracts, Malone doesn't make sense and Hunter is a dream. No arguments there.
Yeah, like I said, take the contracts out of it and I don't think there's a huge difference between them. Different skill sets, similar results overall. We seem to agree about them. The only reason I started defending Hunter is that I didn't like the implication that he's somehow a lesser player than Malone.

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01-04-2009, 09:43 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
And yet you claimed they hit at the same rate when clearly they don't, but rather than admit you were wrong, you tried to bring up a comparison of points? Uh, what?

Your analysis betrays the fact that you know very, very little about Trent Hunter.
I said they hit about the same, one guy has 84 and one has 99! That's what I call about the same. I can tell you that nobody was going to pay 4.5 for Hunter, I promise you that. I doubt you have watched either of those players play a single shift this season. You probably read in a hockey magazine that Hunter is better like 4 years ago and are still running with that.

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01-04-2009, 09:44 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinGuru View Post
And he scored 111 points while Malone piled up 126 over those 3 years.
50 of which came on the wing of one of the best players in the league, something Hunter has never come close to the luxury of.

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01-04-2009, 09:46 PM
  #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
And yet you claimed they hit at the same rate when clearly they don't, but rather than admit you were wrong, you tried to bring up a comparison of points? Uh, what?

Your analysis betrays the fact that you know very, very little about Trent Hunter.
I say this with sincerity... reading his posts here and on the Penguins message board... he knows very, very little about hockey.

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01-04-2009, 09:47 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I could really care less about this hunter/malone pissing match but... Malone put up slightly better numbers while playing on some penguin teams that were just as bad as the islanders if not worse than them so I just felt that needed to be addressed.

I wouldnt mind having Hunter, just not at the expense of Staal. He certainly is the type of winger that should be targeted with our lesser trade bait and our UFA signings though, and hopefully our drafting as well.
A good management team can scout, draft, and get a guy like that NHL ready and putting up 40+ points in 3 years or less. And those entry deals are SWEEET. They should have started stock piling wingers years ago, but now they absolutely have too.

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01-04-2009, 09:48 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
50 of which came on the wing of one of the best players in the league, something Hunter has never come close to the luxury of.
Oh I know, he will probably score like twice as much here, just like Satah and Feditenko!


Last edited by PenguinGuru*: 01-04-2009 at 09:53 PM.
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01-04-2009, 09:48 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
50 of which came on the wing of one of the best players in the league, something Hunter has never come close to the luxury of.
it really wasnt that much of a gain from his previous years of not having Malkin as his center...

Theres a lot of players that got inflated numbers from Crosby and Malkin but going by Malone's performance prior it was pretty much par for the course for him. People really need to stop using that as a crutch for their arguments. He's most likely going to put up that very same production in tampa as well now.

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01-04-2009, 09:48 PM
  #914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinGuru View Post
I said they hit about the same, one guy has 84 and one has 99!
07-08: Hunter - 256 hits (3rd in NHL), Malone - 138 hits (29th in NHL)
06-07: Hunter - 246 hits (3rd in NHL), Malone - 87 hits (80th in NHL)
05-06: Hunter - 230 hits (2nd in NHL), Malone - 110 hits (39th in NHL)

Come again?

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01-04-2009, 09:50 PM
  #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
it really wasnt that much of a gain from his previous years of not having Malkin as his center...

Theres a lot of players that got inflated numbers from Crosby and Malkin but going by Malone's performance prior it was pretty much par for the course for him. People really need to stop using that as a crutch for their arguments. He's most likely going to put up that very same production in tampa as well now.
Regardless, it was a gain from the norm. It can be attributed to playing with Malkin as it's the difference between last year and his other years.

He could still put up 40 points this season, but it wouldn't change the fact that he put up more points with Malkin than his average season.

And since Hunter doesn't have someone like that to play with, it skews the numbers. Take away that production and their point totals are virtually even.

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01-04-2009, 09:51 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
it really wasnt that much of a gain from his previous years of not having Malkin as his center...

Theres a lot of players that got inflated numbers from Crosby and Malkin but going by Malone's performance prior it was pretty much par for the course for him. People really need to stop using that as a crutch for their arguments. He's most likely going to put up that very same production in tampa as well now.
To these guys, everybody is going to have a career year here simply because it's Sid and Geno. Too bad it really doesn't work that way. Most of the time players are who they are, and chemistry is never a given. Especially with Crosby who really only made Armstrong better and that didn't last. Sid needs someone more skilled then Hunter or even Malone as we have seen first hand.

I find is hysterical that MIB wouldn't make that same trade for Malone if he had the same contract. I guess because Hunter has 15 more hits? Classic.

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01-04-2009, 09:52 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
07-08: Hunter - 256 hits (3rd in NHL), Malone - 138 hits (29th in NHL)
06-07: Hunter - 246 hits (3rd in NHL), Malone - 87 hits (80th in NHL)
05-06: Hunter - 230 hits (2nd in NHL), Malone - 110 hits (39th in NHL)

Come again?
This season Hunter is less of a one trick pony, that's why his hits are down and his points are up. Anybody who has seen him play would know that. He figured out what Malone did a long time ago, choose your hits. How many times last season did Malone line a guy up for a bone crushing check and pull up and gently steal the puck away? Hunter isn't that far removed from his tunnel vision awareness but for him 99 hits this time of year is low, and Malone has 84 hits. Both are on pace for 57 points, but my money is on Malone to finish stronger.

Better check your calender, I think it's broke.

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01-04-2009, 09:53 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by PenguinGuru View Post
Oh know, he will probably score like twice as much here, just like Satah and Feditenko!
First, please speak English.

Second, Fedotenko and Satan are both on their way to eclipsing their point totals from last year.

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01-04-2009, 09:56 PM
  #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinGuru View Post
This season Hunter is less of a one trick pony, that's why his hits are down and his points are up. Anybody who has seen him play would know that. He figured out what Malone did a long time ago, choose your hits. How many times last season did Malone line a guy up for a bone crushing check and pull up and gently steal the puck away? Hunter isn't that far removed from his tunnel vision awareness but for him 99 hits this time of year is low, and Malone has 84 hits. Both are on pace for 57 points, but my money is on Malone to finish stronger.

Better check your calender, I think it's broke.
Since your prior comment was that he was Malone Lite based on his career stats, what's happening this year is just part of the picture.

My calendar is fine. Your picking and choosing stats to fit your needs is the problem.

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01-04-2009, 09:57 PM
  #920
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A good management team can scout, draft, and get a guy like that NHL ready and putting up 40+ points in 3 years or less. And those entry deals are SWEEET. They should have started stock piling wingers years ago, but now they absolutely have too.
Alright. Frankly, I'm sick of reading this crap from you. Here's a list of forwards selected outside of the first round of 2006 (three drafts ago) who are on pace for 40+ points this season.

Milan Lucic

There you have it.

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01-04-2009, 09:58 PM
  #921
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I would do Staal +something for Hunter and Witt. This team needs to get tougher.
For a little while there, you had me pondering.... then I saw this


... thought about how Cherry would chew at our thuggish traits, remembered my profound dislike of all dogs (sans labrador, don't know why), and that I couldn't really see the pairings with 3M Witt, although I agree that he would be great for us in many ways.

Quote:
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The only reason I started defending Hunter is that I didn't like the implication that he's somehow a lesser player than Malone.
To be honest, that doesn't necessarily mean that some other poster here has never seen Hunter play. Only that they disagree with your assessment, and there is in fact a possibility that they would be right . You often play this card, you know.

If you look at PenguinGuru's argument and have watched Hunter this season, then I think you will have to agree that him becoming a more complete player has also meant that the hit-physicality machine runs at a lower clip whereas Malone has followed up on his progress from last year. And if the difference in hits per year is 30 rather than 120, then Malone's more refined tool box and consistently higher point production (even on horrible Pens teams) matter too.
No arguments that Malone was a floater and picked his nights earlier on in his career, but just like Hunter is now becoming more complete, last seasons Malone was a damn good and well rounded player. I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking he tops Hunter, nor the opposite for that matter. Its close and it depends what you want/like.

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01-04-2009, 10:02 PM
  #922
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It's funny, usually "Malone" and "tool box" are used in the same sentence for other reasons.

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01-04-2009, 10:03 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Boris the Blade View Post
Alright. Frankly, I'm sick of reading this crap from you. Here's a list of forwards selected outside of the first round of 2006 (three drafts ago) who are on pace for 40+ points this season.

Milan Lucic

There you have it.
Before '06, all that landed on the shoulders of Papa Malone and Craig Patrick.

I've yet to ever see PensGuru slag on CP.

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01-04-2009, 10:14 PM
  #924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
To be honest, that doesn't necessarily mean that some other poster here has never seen Hunter play. Only that they disagree with your assessment, and there is in fact a possibility that they would be right . You often play this card, you know.
Oh come on, how many Pens fans would ever bother to watch the Isles play? I have simply because I have some of their players on my fantasy roster so it's given me an excuse to tune into their games. As for playing that card, maybe that's because it's true. There's nothing wrong with only enjoying watching your favorite team play but when people who are like that talk about other teams' players, well, let's just say it's really easy to tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
If you look at PenguinGuru's argument and have watched Hunter this season, then I think you will have to agree that him becoming a more complete player has also meant that the hit-physicality machine runs at a lower clip whereas Malone has followed up on his progress from last year.
Hunter hasn't really become a more complete player, he's just been asked to play a slightly different role. He's also dealt with some nagging injuries (nothing too serious) which could explain the reduction in physicality. Still, to outperform Malone in a statistic by a huge margin for his entire career and then to only slightly outperform him in this year...I don't know why anyone would focus on the one year that's the exception. Surely you can also see why a statement like that lends credence to my opinion that he hasn't seen much of Hunter. His physicality isn't a secret, it's been one of the key elements of his game in the NHL for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
And if the difference in hits per year is 30 rather than 120, then Malone's more refined tool box and consistently higher point production (even on horrible Pens teams) matter too.
No arguments that Malone was a floater and picked his nights earlier on in his career, but just like Hunter is now becoming more complete, last seasons Malone was a damn good and well rounded player. I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking he tops Hunter, nor the opposite for that matter. Its close and it depends what you want/like.
That would be true if Malone were really consistently more productive.

Hunter 03-04: 77 games, 25 goals, 26 assists
Malone 03-04: 81 games, 22 goals, 21 assists

Hunter 05-06: 82 games, 16 goals, 19 assists
Malone 05-06: 77 games, 22 goals, 22 assists

Hunter 06-07: 77 games, 20 goals, 15 assists
Malone 06-07: 64 games, 16 goals, 15 assists

Hunter 07-08: 82 games, 12 goals, 29 assists
Malone 07-08: 77 games, 27 goals, 24, assists

Hunter 08-09: 37 games, 11 goals, 15 assists
Malone 08-09: 29 games, 9 goals, 11 assists

With the exception of 07-08, they've always been very close in terms of point output. Hunter was better in 03-04, Malone better in 05-06 and 07-08 and Hunter has been better this year. I didn't count 06-07 because Hunter outscored Malone, but did it in 13 more games played. It's not really fair to consider either player's production as better that year. With the exception of the one year Malone played with Malkin, the difference in yearly output has never been significant.

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01-04-2009, 10:20 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by Mario_is_BACK!! View Post
First, please speak English.

Second, Fedotenko and Satan are both on their way to eclipsing their point totals from last year.
Fedz uses a bold "o"? Cool.

Okay, let's explore this further. Let's use your own argument to show how much more offense Hunter will provide here.

Last season Fedz was on pace for 40 points over 82 games. This season he is on pace for 47. That's a 17% increase.

Satan was on pace for 42 points last season and is averaging (get this) .666 points per game this season for a 55 total over 82 games (down from his previous 3 seasons with the Islanders). That's an astonishing 31% increase, nice work Sid!!

Let's split the difference and say that by your theory, Hunter will improve by 24%. Fair? I thought so.

If Hunter continues along this torrid pace and finishes with a career best 57 points, we can expect him to score 71 points here in Pittsburgh!

I'm sold let's do it!

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