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Old
10-27-2008, 05:22 AM
  #126
Bad Natey
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I've thought about giving a minus to the player in the penalty box but I realized that wouldn't necessarily be fair either. Suppose an opposing player is on a breakaway and a Hab can't quite catch up to him but hooks him. There's no penalty shot but the Hab sits in the box even though it's not his fault there was a breakaway. The opponents score on the resulting power play. Should that defender be singled out for a minus any more than a player who loses the puck in the offensive zone through a giveaway at the blue line?
That's a good point. Thanks.

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10-27-2008, 01:05 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
This is the smartest post in the thread. Brisebois certainly didn't help us win last night, but he wasn't the only reason we lost.

I don't see what more you can ask for from a #7 defenseman. He's +2 on the season and didn't cost his team a goal until his 7th game into the year (On the first goal last night he screened Halak). If he can play 40 games this year and be a +5 on the year with 7-12 points.. I don't we can complain too much.
I questioned the decision to put him in the game against the Ducks. If you're going to use your 7th defenceman, you gotta pick your spots. Carbonneau decided to pick his spot at the worst time. O'Byrne vs. the Ducks on his worst day is better than Brisebois on his best day vs. the Ducks.

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Old
10-27-2008, 01:17 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
I would agree on the defensive side of the puck he's played pretty well. He was terrible on both sides of the puck in the season opener, and he does have a tendency to get turned around in his own zone so he's scrambling more then any of the other defensemen, but for the most part, he's been able to not get burned very often as in leading to actual goals. It seems the majority around here grade defensemen as follows - did he make a glaring error that lead to a goal? BAD. Did he lay a good solid hit? GOOD. That's it.

Well, O'Byrne has not made plays that lead to goals, but he's also simply not playing the system the rest of the team plays.

Montreal is not a team that lugs the puck much on defense when even strength. They're also not a club that has defenseman throw the puck out of the zone. Each time they gain possesion in their zone, be a forward or defenseman, they make a very quick outlet pass to key the offense. Sometimes it's a big long stretch pass to take advantage of the fact the Montreal forward has a foot-speed advantage versus his defender, or sometimes it's quick outlet hitting a guy in stride who will in turn get it up the ice.

Watch Ryan O'Byrne. He doesn't do this. When he gets the puck, he usually throws it up ice to nobody in particular. He throws it off the glass and out into the neutral zone. Or he actually reverses the puck behind the net to his partner so he can make the outlet. All of these things either hand over the possession of the puck or neutralize Montreal's speed. (It also should be noted, that there are some teams in the league where this would be considered no problem at all. Before the lockout, there were usually at least three defenseman on every team in the league that did this. Instead of trying to make a play, they try to minimize mistakes and get the puck out of the zone. This is no longer how the Canadiens play.)

I'm interested to see how he plays first game back in the lineup because I'm sure he's had this drilled into his head: If you want to play here, play our system.
So you are saying that O'Byrne plays a lot like Komisarek.

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Old
10-27-2008, 01:20 PM
  #129
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I am sure about #71, I am sure that I no longer want to see him on the ice. I've had enough of him.

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Old
10-27-2008, 01:36 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post

I think, he was responsible for the 4th and 6th goals, if I remember correctly. The 4th one was entirely his fault because he bent down to stop the puck with his hand, it bounced off and created a breakaway for Moen. On the, I believe, 6th goal, he was standing in no-mans land and left his man wide open.

I agree that he's an amazing defenseman, though I think our best all-around defenseman is Hamrlik.. and that's not a hit on Markov. I just think with the game on the line, Hamrlik would be the first defenseman I turn too.
Like I said, it's irrelevant how many mistakes or goals Markov was responsible for.
Markov is one of our if not THE most valuable player on our team, so he can make mistakes. Pointing out which goal he was responsible for is useless. As his mistakes go a lot more unnoticed.
Breezer on the other hand, starts the game with people already on his back.
That's only normal, he's our 6th/7th D, his margin of error is almost non-existent. Bouillon has a little more, then Jorges, then Komi, then Hamr/Markov.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I have admitted many times that he didn't have a good game tonight. Read the game-day thread. However, why is it fair to blame our #7 defenseman who has done a decent enough job (+1 on the season) and not our #1 defenseman who was terrible tonight as well? It seems kind of pointless to me to rag on the #7, who is doing an adequate job, if we are just going to give the rest of our defenseman a free pass.
Well, I agree, I'm not blaming Breezer for the loss. I'm not saying Markov's mistakes didn't cost more than Breezer's. But that goes back to what I was saying, Breezer has a much much thinner margin of error. So he'll get crapped on before Markov.

But, personally, I'm far from blaming him. Like I said, a lot of players didn't perform well.

What I am saying is, that i prefer seeing O'Byrne gain experience next to Hamr, then seeing Breezer have a bad game.
Even if O'Byrne has bad games, it's normal, he's young. Breezer is a veteran, when we put him in, we should expect some veteran play.
We did have injuries, so that's why he played so much but still. Wasn't particularly happy to see O'Byrne out and Breezer in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Breezer was pretty bad most of the night, but he still managed to pick up an assist.. and was a contributor on the game-tying goal (our 2nd goal) as he kept the puck in the zone.

He was only directly responsible for one-goal against (the first one when he screen Halak).

Halak played fine. If you notice, Price played the same way. Our entire defense was pretty terrible tonight. Halak let in four goals. One was a guy wide-open in the slot, one was a screen, and one was a 2 on 1. He had no support.. and neither did Price.
Halak was not fine. The defense wasn't good, but you expect your goalie to make some key saves, just like he had done in previous games. That didn't happen.

Still, like I said, many players weren't playing particularly well.

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Old
10-27-2008, 06:26 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Hub City Hab View Post
So you are saying that O'Byrne plays a lot like Komisarek.
Komisarek of 4 years ago maybe? In that sense there is hope that O'Byrne improves, but so far his puck skills have been well below par for the style of game this team wants to play and I fail to see a connection with the current version of Komisarek.

Granted Komisarek may not have the best hands for a dman, and sometimes he will resort to flipping the puck out, but I feel he understands the game well and plays the system within his limitations. I think FerrisRox is a little harsh in criticizing O'Byrne for reversing the play to a more solid dman in Hamrlik (as Komisarek does this as well) because in most cases it is a better move than chipping it out of the zone and in some cases it is a necessary move. (If there's a strong forecheck, no passing lanes etc...)

Not to mention the fact that O'Byrne has put himself out of position to land hits, has looked unsure of himself with the puck and has been caught out of position/turned around in his own zone. These are also reasons I don't think it's accurate to compare his play to Komisarek's.

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Old
10-27-2008, 06:47 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
Not sure what the habs see about this guy.

Everytime he gives the puck away at bad times, like tonite vs the ducks....


What does he bring to th game that o'bryne can't???


This guy causes the habs problems, in the playoffs last year, and again this year...


Not sure what you wild fans think, but I feel this guy is going to cost us a BIG win one nite, cause he so poor at clearing the puck.

For the most part he gives you a consistant performance and can contrubte on the PP. I think they put him in because O'byrne had a horrible game last Wednesday. I'm not sure that's the right approach but I hope O'b is in there tomorrow and bounces back, he had a pretty good start until that game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
I am sure about #71, I am sure that I no longer want to see him on the ice. I've had enough of him.
For that to happen, O'byrne will have to be more consistant. He can have "ok" games but he can't afford to have too many "deer in the headlights" games like Monday. Brisebois of Saturday even with his miscues was better than O'byrne of Monday.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-27-2008 at 07:54 PM.
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Old
10-27-2008, 07:01 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
For that to happen, O'byrne will have to be more consistant. He can have "ok" games but he can't afford to have too many "deer in the headlights" games like Monday. Brisebois of Saturday even with his miscues was better than O'byrne of Monday.
No he wasn't.

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Old
10-27-2008, 09:11 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Hub City Hab View Post
So you are saying that O'Byrne plays a lot like Komisarek.
No, I'm not.

Komisarek makes the outlet pass. Not sure why you think he doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
I think FerrisRox is a little harsh in criticizing O'Byrne for reversing the play to a more solid dman in Hamrlik (as Komisarek does this as well) because in most cases it is a better move than chipping it out of the zone and in some cases it is a necessary move. (If there's a strong forecheck, no passing lanes etc...)
I don't have an issue with reversing the puck behind the net. As you pointed out, it can be an effective play.

However, I have an issue with how often O'Byrne does this and how often he actually back tracks in his zone in order to reverse it. This completely nullfies the Canadiens speed. It's one thing to do it when that is one of the viable options because of where you are on the ice when you get puck possession, it's another thing all together when you actually back track in your zone in order to throw it around back to a partner.

That leaves Canadiens wingers flat-footed and their blueline usually with coverage on them or near by. Other defenseman, including the dreaded Brisebois, make that pass and hit those wingers in flight and maximize the Canadiens most enviable asset: speed.


Last edited by CareyPrice x 31: 10-27-2008 at 10:29 PM.
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Old
10-27-2008, 10:41 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I know. Just when you think, ho hum, Breezer had a lousy game, yeah, I think he sees more ice than he should but when Bouillon was down, no big deal, so these things work themselves out, so I think I'll see the usual putdowns, and here we are, Onice works William Shatner into it.

Does he really walk around with a ringing sound on his ears ?

I dont know how its called in english but in french its " Acouphene " ( or something like that ). My mother has that and its annoying as ****...probably enough to drive someone crazy but with time you just live with it and dont notice it.

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10-27-2008, 11:00 PM
  #136
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I said use a rookie AND O'byrne. As in waive Breezer and call up a rookie in his place.
You waive breezer, it doesn't save you any money.... He was over 35 when he signed his contract.

That extra 850,000 or more to call up a rookie eats into our capspace.

Capspace that can be used at the trade deadline to get a defenceman....

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Old
10-27-2008, 11:07 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
I don't have an issue with reversing the puck behind the net. As you pointed out, it can be an effective play.

However, I have an issue with how often O'Byrne does this and how often he actually back tracks in his zone in order to reverse it. This completely nullfies the Canadiens speed. It's one thing to do it when that is one of the viable options because of where you are on the ice when you get puck possession, it's another thing all together when you actually back track in your zone in order to throw it around back to a partner.

That leaves Canadiens wingers flat-footed and their blueline usually with coverage on them or near by. Other defenseman, including the dreaded Brisebois, make that pass and hit those wingers in flight and maximize the Canadiens most enviable asset: speed.
And I have a problem with how often it is for Breezer to get beaten to the puck. Actually, he doesn't even get beat, he usually lets them pass by him so he doesn't get check. He then tries to check the player but is very ineffective most of the time. This lets the opposing team set up some type of play in our zone. I find this to be a much bigger problem, then setting our speed back a little bit.
Im tired of seeing him be manhandled like a weak little boy.

You can point out O'Byrne's weakest point, his outlet pass. But Breezer has his own weak points, and they're not easier to accept than O'Byrne's, especially since he's a veteran.

As a 6th Dman, I'll accept a lot more the mistakes of a youngster with not even 40GP and with great upside, than the mistakes of a player that we kept on as a 7th D for his veteran play that hasn't been very effective.
But that's just me, maybe you prefer seeing Breezer do the mistakes.


Last edited by Kriss E: 10-27-2008 at 11:15 PM.
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Old
10-27-2008, 11:14 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
thing is he sucks, hab fans booed him out, and now he is back???


what does he bring to this team???

watching him, gives me a Excedrin headache.

he gives that puck away faster then a pez dispenser.
Seriously, he's just THAT bad. What I dislike the most about his play is that his turnovers are caused because he's too SLOW. He's always a step behind the play and he's always rushed to pass the puck. He can't win a battle along the boards to save his life. There are no reasons he should play instead of O'Byrne. I mean, the guy is faster, stronger and brings more to the table than Brisebois.

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10-27-2008, 11:32 PM
  #139
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O'Byrne can't skate, O'Byrne can't hit, O'Byrne can't shoot and O'Byrne can't make nor receive a pass.

The guy is junk.

I'd rather have Brisebois on the ice than the purse stealer, at least he brings some offensive threat.

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10-27-2008, 11:55 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by 24 And Counting View Post
O'Byrne can't skate, O'Byrne can't hit, O'Byrne can't shoot and O'Byrne can't make nor receive a pass.

The guy is junk.

I'd rather have Brisebois on the ice than the purse stealer, at least he brings some offensive threat.


Can't skate, hit or shoot?? WOW...

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10-27-2008, 11:58 PM
  #141
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Hey look, people complaining about Patrice Brisebois.

Oh, look, the sky, its blue...

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10-28-2008, 01:11 AM
  #142
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by 24 And Counting View Post
O'Byrne can't skate, O'Byrne can't hit, O'Byrne can't shoot and O'Byrne can't make nor receive a pass.

The guy is junk.

I'd rather have Brisebois on the ice than the purse stealer, at least he brings some offensive threat.
Please keep your number of posts to 14.

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Old
10-28-2008, 05:48 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I questioned the decision to put him in the game against the Ducks. If you're going to use your 7th defenceman, you gotta pick your spots. Carbonneau decided to pick his spot at the worst time. O'Byrne vs. the Ducks on his worst day is better than Brisebois on his best day vs. the Ducks.
This I agree with.. Brisebois should rarely be in games versus Western Conference teams unless it's due to injury.

Brisebois is most effective against teams who are, well, as soft as him.

***

On another note, in reply to Kriss.. you have to EXPECT your bottom pairing/extra defenseman to make a lot more mistakes. That's why they are paid so little and don't play as much. Unfortunately, Brisebois has played too much because of injuries.

However, if you go around the NHL, I doubt you'll find that many guys better then him, in his position (#7 D).

I'm more concerned when our top defenseman are causing goals against than our bottom defenseman. When the game is on the line, the top defenseman are the ones on the ice and the ones we rely on.


Last edited by Bad Natey: 10-28-2008 at 05:54 AM.
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10-28-2008, 06:03 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by 24 And Counting View Post
O'Byrne can't skate, O'Byrne can't hit, O'Byrne can't shoot and O'Byrne can't make nor receive a pass.

The guy is junk.

I'd rather have Brisebois on the ice than the purse stealer, at least he brings some offensive threat.


WTH is bringing out these ridiculous threads ?

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Old
10-28-2008, 06:31 AM
  #145
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WTH is bringing out these ridiculous threads ?
Well, I'm not a medical expert but there is a condition in medicine known as Byrnsitis.

The symptoms are inflammation of the upper right cortex and lower left emphatic intelligence hence placing excessive pressure on the retina stem. People who suffer from this condition have been known to go blind when watching hockey games - especially games involving d-men with Irish names.

It's a rare but fully documented aliment. It seems to strike mainly Hab fans and Maple Leaf drones. I believe it was discovered by a Boston researcher while he was taking in a game at the Gardens and his Bruins were on their way to another of their numerous and marvelous moral victories.


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10-28-2008, 07:55 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
This I agree with.. Brisebois should rarely be in games versus Western Conference teams unless it's due to injury.

Brisebois is most effective against teams who are, well, as soft as him.


***

On another note, in reply to Kriss.. you have to EXPECT your bottom pairing/extra defenseman to make a lot more mistakes. That's why they are paid so little and don't play as much. Unfortunately, Brisebois has played too much because of injuries.

However, if you go around the NHL, I doubt you'll find that many guys better then him, in his position (#7 D).

I'm more concerned when our top defenseman are causing goals against than our bottom defenseman. When the game is on the line, the top defenseman are the ones on the ice and the ones we rely on.
Bantam or Midget teams?

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Old
10-28-2008, 08:13 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by 24 And Counting View Post
O'Byrne can't skate, O'Byrne can't hit, O'Byrne can't shoot and O'Byrne can't make nor receive a pass.

The guy is junk.

I'd rather have Brisebois on the ice than the purse stealer, at least he brings some offensive threat.
....
Where's my fellow New Brunswicker when you need him?

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10-28-2008, 08:33 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by 24 And Counting View Post
O'Byrne can't skate, O'Byrne can't hit, O'Byrne can't shoot and O'Byrne can't make nor receive a pass.

The guy is junk.

I'd rather have Brisebois on the ice than the purse stealer, at least he brings some offensive threat.


NOW YOU'RE JUST BEING RIDICULOUS.

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10-28-2008, 10:40 AM
  #149
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We'll see if O'Byrne is still there in 3 years.

Uncoordinated as he is, I bet you he'll be playing with Sébastien Bordeleau or Pierre Dagenais somewhere in the DEL.

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10-28-2008, 10:59 AM
  #150
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People have to get off this "get rid of Brisebois" bandwagon. For the most part when he is dressed he does the job. Saturday was the first time he was on the ice for a goal against. I'm not 100% in agreement with playing him against Anaheim due to their style, but I have no problem sitting O'byrne here and there. For the most part O'b has played well this year but last Monday he was awful.

It would not be wise to make a move until midseason/trade dealine. Brisebois is more than adequate as #7 in the meantime and Carle Valentenko Weber are getting good minutes AHL. I don't see the need to throw Brisebois and/or O'b under the bus for the last 2 games, but I guess some people are not happy if they don't have a knee jerk reaction. I guess we should also cut Price and Halak to call up Denis and Dejardins

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