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Stirling's Benching Policies

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Old
02-28-2004, 08:53 AM
  #1
blitzkriegs
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Stirling's Benching Policies

ok, Jason Blake in two consecutive nights has taken two STUPID penalties that led directy to two critical goals against.

Vs. NYR: Blake did not sit
Vs. BUF: Blake sat the last 2 minutes of the 2nd period with a 3-2 lead.

Blake returns to the ice on the 2nd line change in the 3rd period. WHY?

Earlier in the season, Bates made two critical mistakes that led to goals against (and a loss that night) but was benched a mere fifteen minutes. He returned to the ice with 6 minutes to go in the game when NYI were down by 1 (this for a guy who had not scored 17+ games at that time). WHY?

Argue defensively responsible, but this is a mixed message all the way. I would have agreed if Blake returned for a only a PK, but to take a regular shift(s)???

Again, Sterling yanked Ricky for a stupid penalty vs. WASH that led to a goal and put that game out of reach. Pulling a goalie is more xtreme than a forward.

Sterling has also benched Chow, Papineau, Weinhandl, Kvasha, Martinek, etc. for play detrimental to the team.

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02-28-2004, 09:22 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
ok, Jason Blake in two consecutive nights has taken two STUPID penalties that led directy to two critical goals against.

Vs. NYR: Blake did not sit
Vs. BUF: Blake sat the last 2 minutes of the 2nd period with a 3-2 lead.

Blake returns to the ice on the 2nd line change in the 3rd period. WHY?

Earlier in the season, Bates made two critical mistakes that led to goals against (and a loss that night) but was benched a mere fifteen minutes. He returned to the ice with 6 minutes to go in the game when NYI were down by 1 (this for a guy who had not scored 17+ games at that time). WHY?

Argue defensively responsible, but this is a mixed message all the way. I would have agreed if Blake returned for a only a PK, but to take a regular shift(s)???
I cannot argue with a word of what you wrote, but you answered yourself too. He is smart with the puck and can carry it and is a good defensive forward. It's the third game in four days, Peca's out, Scatchard is hurting. The players you listed below are not very good defensive forwards. This is why Bates, Blake and even Manlow will be on the ice to win battles and keep the pressure off as much as possible and with a lead Czerkawski will play his role and not be on the ice and get a shorter rope when he makes mistakes.

It's not pretty, it will not produce goals or high quality chances, it may seem like the coach does play favorites, but there is no denying it's been working and this team is winning, which is the coaches primary job. It also seems (from just a fan view) that the players sitting do respect and respond to Stirling's honesty for what they can or cannot do.

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02-28-2004, 09:32 AM
  #3
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Originally Posted by NYIsles1
I cannot argue with a word of what you wrote, but you answered yourself too. He is smart with the puck and can carry it and is a good defensive forward. It's the third game in four days, Peca's out, Scatchard is hurting. The players you listed below are not very good defensive forwards. This is why Bates, Blake and even Manlow will be on the ice to win battles and keep the pressure off as much as possible and with a lead Czerkawski will play his role and not be on the ice and get a shorter rope when he makes mistakes.

It's not pretty, it will not produce goals or high quality chances, it may seem like the coach does play favorites, but there is no denying it's been working and this team is winning, which is the coaches primary job. It also seems (from just a fan view) that the players sitting do respect and respond to Stirling's honesty for what they can or cannot do.
Stirling is very inconsistant in applying this policy.
Bates is the worst offensive player on the team, keeps whiffing and shanking shots, but actually gets more ice time instead of less. Not only that, he gets critical minutes when the game is on the line. He is a -7 this season, loses his checking assignment frequently. And last night, late in the 3rd, he lost two straight draws to a FORWARD, Pyatt. Stirling loves Bates because they both are BU alumni. That stinks.
Bates sucks.

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02-28-2004, 09:42 AM
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Stirling's Benching Policies

Are fine by me. They get results. Society should worry about equality, not a coach of professional team.

Use your player's strengths according to the particular need of the game. A good coach doesn't apply the same method of disciplining to all his players. Some players need to be coddled others need to be kicked in the pants.

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02-28-2004, 09:44 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesman
Stirling loves Bates because they both are BU alumni. That stinks.
Bates sucks.
So your saying Sterling is going to risk his career and livelihood for an alum?

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02-28-2004, 10:13 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesman
Stirling is very inconsistant in applying this policy.
Bates is the worst offensive player on the team, keeps whiffing and shanking shots, but actually gets more ice time instead of less. Not only that, he gets critical minutes when the game is on the line. He is a -7 this season, loses his checking assignment frequently. And last night, late in the 3rd, he lost two straight draws to a FORWARD, Pyatt. Stirling loves Bates because they both are BU alumni. That stinks.
Bates sucks.
Bates started this season on a fourth line, he earned his way into a bigger role and carried this team until he was hurt in December. He won over the coach with his defensive work, faceoff ability, not his shot and he is 40-50 point player anyway.

He is the best option the Isles have for faceoffs and coaches always want a second player on the ice who can win one.

Here are the faceoff statistics in the NHL. Look where Bates is:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/statis...4&seasontype=2)

It's not just about being an offensive player or how many shots he misses. It's about how he plays defense and get's the puck out or carries it to a safe area and can spring a rush without risking a turnover. He's a minus seven because he is trusted more in key situtations where the opposition has the edge.

And the best faceoff percentage players in this league play, he is the one leading the Islanders.

Czerkawski is about a plus seven, who would you want to win a battle to protect a
one-goal lead late in a game to win a battle and get the puck out?

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02-28-2004, 10:35 AM
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Bates Sucks And Continues To Take Ice Time Away From More Productive Players!!!

Last Night The Kvasha Line Was The Best Line By Far And All Three Players Scored A Goal...yet They All Had Less Ice Time Then Bates...who Also Took A Dumb Penalty And Was Not Benched...which Is What Should Happen Based On The Way Stirling Treats Other Players.

Chow Who Is The Leading Scorer On This Team Played A Little Over 10 Minutes...because Even Though He Has Clearly Improved His Defensive Play Stirling Hates Chow.

Chow Is The Leading Scorer On This Team And He's Only Averaging 12-13 Minutes A Game. He Would Probably Already Have 30 Goals If Only Stirling Gave Him A Fair Shot With More Ice Time.

I Hate Stirling With A Passion. As Good As This Team Has Played With Stirling...they Can Be Much Better If He Would Only Make Better Decisions.

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02-28-2004, 10:46 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Goal
Bates Sucks And Continues To Take Ice Time Away From More Productive Players!!!

Last Night The Kvasha Line Was The Best Line By Far And All Three Players Scored A Goal...yet They All Had Less Ice Time Then Bates...who Also Took A Dumb Penalty And Was Not Benched...which Is What Should Happen Based On The Way Stirling Treats Other Players.

Chow Who Is The Leading Scorer On This Team Played A Little Over 10 Minutes...because Even Though He Has Clearly Improved His Defensive Play Stirling Hates Chow.

Chow Is The Leading Scorer On This Team And He's Only Averaging 12-13 Minutes A Game. He Would Probably Already Have 30 Goals If Only Stirling Gave Him A Fair Shot With More Ice Time.

I Hate Stirling With A Passion. As Good As This Team Has Played With Stirling...they Can Be Much Better If He Would Only Make Better Decisions.
I'm curious if you watched the game last night? Did you see the drop passes in the second Kvasha was making to no one in the middle of the ice that looked like the one at Msg where Messier scored where Buffalo was very close to getting odd-man rushes?

He was great last night too, several outstanding moves and rushes and the big third peirod goal.

It's not as easy as handing him 25 minutes a game and hoping both offense, defense and his outstanding pk skills balance out with his faceoff ability. It's a team game and he has his role.

This is one of the highest scoring teams in the Eastern Conference.

Czerkawski (like everyone) should be played based on how he is doing and the circumstances. He has done so many great things on offense they are nowhere without him. That said playing a player in defensive situtations that score one and may give up two is not the kind of coaching that wins in this conference.

Eric Manlow plays because the team needs defense and does not have a single goal and dressed over Weinhandl. It's why Bates plays. It's why Stirling will ride his strongest defensive forwards with a lead or even tied and behind by one to keep his team in a game. When the team needs a goal, Czerkawski get's more chances and he comes thru in that role.

In the Vancouver game he kept getting more time and his line rallied down 3-1 to tie the game and win it in overtime. Everyone has a role, Czerkawski has his and he responds well to it, so does Czerkawski because for the first time in his career he can score off both wings. There is less pressure on him and get's his shots on the pp where he should. Even Parrish moved to left wing to do what needs to be done to get him on powerplays with Trent Hunter.

It's a team concept and it's an amazing job by this head coach to get this production without big individual stats.


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02-28-2004, 11:05 AM
  #9
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Jason Blake makes mistakes, but I will tell you this, he is still the hardest working player the Isles have night in and night out. If some of the other players on this team would work as hard as Blake does everynight this team would be better. Jason brings intensity this team, especially when they are flat and his mistakes are usually aggressive mistakes, not lazy mistakes.

Benching should not be the result of mistakes, it should be the result of lazy play.

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02-28-2004, 12:20 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
ok, Jason Blake in two consecutive nights has taken two STUPID penalties that led directy to two critical goals against.

Vs. NYR: Blake did not sit
Vs. BUF: Blake sat the last 2 minutes of the 2nd period with a 3-2 lead.

Blake returns to the ice on the 2nd line change in the 3rd period. WHY?

Earlier in the season, Bates made two critical mistakes that led to goals against (and a loss that night) but was benched a mere fifteen minutes. He returned to the ice with 6 minutes to go in the game when NYI were down by 1 (this for a guy who had not scored 17+ games at that time). WHY?

Argue defensively responsible, but this is a mixed message all the way. I would have agreed if Blake returned for a only a PK, but to take a regular shift(s)???

Again, Sterling yanked Ricky for a stupid penalty vs. WASH that led to a goal and put that game out of reach. Pulling a goalie is more xtreme than a forward.

Sterling has also benched Chow, Papineau, Weinhandl, Kvasha, Martinek, etc. for play detrimental to the team.
Stirling seems to know his players. Some players will get the message quickly some don't. Blake is generally a player who competes every night. Also the hook (while lazy) was a marginal call. Blake missed three shift and I think that punishment fit the crime.

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02-28-2004, 12:54 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Goal
Bates Sucks And Continues To Take Ice Time Away From More Productive Players!!!

Chow Who Is The Leading Scorer On This Team Played A Little Over 10 Minutes...because Even Though He Has Clearly Improved His Defensive Play Stirling Hates Chow.

Chow Is The Leading Scorer On This Team And He's Only Averaging 12-13 Minutes A Game. He Would Probably Already Have 30 Goals If Only Stirling Gave Him A Fair Shot With More Ice Time.

I Hate Stirling With A Passion. As Good As This Team Has Played With Stirling...they Can Be Much Better If He Would Only Make Better Decisions.

Did you ever consider the fact that the way Stirling handles Chow may be the reason why Chow has been as productive so far? Stirling has gotten more out of Chow than any coach Chow has had to date.

Sterling does not hate Chow. In fact he commented on how much he appreciates Chows resilience for coming back after sub par play. Chow himself after the VCR game, said that if he would give a more consistent effort he would probably see more Ice time.

Finally, the notion that the more ice time you get leads to greater production is a misconception. Some players may start off producing but then they become complacent although their ice time remains high. Chow has always been streaky throughout his NHL career.

But since the geniuses of this board insist Chow should ALWAYS get more ice time than Bates. I propose this. Give Bates' PK time to Chow. This way Stirling can run Chow 20+ minutes a game like the thoroghbred that everyone else in the NHL (except Stirling) thinks he is.


Last edited by Big Game: 02-28-2004 at 01:23 PM.
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02-28-2004, 02:45 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Game
So your saying Sterling is going to risk his career and livelihood for an alum?


The conspiracy theories continue! All the NYI coaches are wrong about Bates and the fans are right. Same with Blake. :p

And that doggone Stirling! What a lousy coach! Heck, without his top player much of the season, his captain not scoring at all, a top RW out for almost two months, a near-rookie and journeyman between the pipes, his D corp underperforming for the first half of the year, a 27 goal scorer from last year out injured for a time, waiver wire fodder manning his top RW position ...this team ought to have 100 points by now!

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02-28-2004, 03:54 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier


The conspiracy theories continue! All the NYI coaches are wrong about Bates and the fans are right. Same with Blake. :p

And that doggone Stirling! What a lousy coach! Heck, without his top player much of the season, his captain not scoring at all, a top RW out for almost two months, a near-rookie and journeyman between the pipes, his D corp underperforming for the first half of the year, a 27 goal scorer from last year out injured for a time, waiver wire fodder manning his top RW position ...this team ought to have 100 points by now!
completely agree. however, i am still annoyed every time i see bates on the ice getting quality power play time. other than that, i am becoming a stirling booster now that dipietro is his main man.

p.s. he should also get rid of godard. i can't stand that bum. but again, stirling is doing a fine job.

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02-28-2004, 04:19 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Game
So your saying Sterling is going to risk his career and livelihood for an alum?
Risk? What risk? I'm saying that there is no other reasonable explanation for how Stirling overlooks Bates failures and incompetencies, but does not give any other forward the slightest understanding when they do something, anything wrong. If you can tell me the reason for this duplicity, please do so. I would like to know.

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02-28-2004, 04:32 PM
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Blake does make some mistakes and took a bad penalty last night, the penalty he took against the Rangers was just a brutal call. Bates does get a little too much plying time IMO, especially on the PP but he is without a doubt a beter defensive player than Chow. Chow does have a better +/-, but thats because he is rarley on the ice in key defensive sityations. If their ice time was reversed Chow would be lower than a -7, and Bates would be a double digit in +/-.. Chow's Defense has improved, but I would stil much rather see blake, bates, Scatchard, Peca, Hunter, malow, etc on the ice late in a close game with the lead rather than Chow.

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02-28-2004, 04:46 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255
Blake does make some mistakes and took a bad penalty last night, the penalty he took against the Rangers was just a brutal call. Bates does get a little too much plying time IMO, especially on the PP but he is without a doubt a beter defensive player than Chow. Chow does have a better +/-, but thats because he is rarley on the ice in key defensive sityations. If their ice time was reversed Chow would be lower than a -7, and Bates would be a double digit in +/-.. Chow's Defense has improved, but I would stil much rather see blake, bates, Scatchard, Peca, Hunter, malow, etc on the ice late in a close game with the lead rather than Chow.
Everyone agrees (or should) that Chow is not a good defensive player. He SHOULD be sitting if you are trying to hold teh lead at the end of a game. The question is that benching policy is not applied uniformly, and especially when it comes to Bates. Face offs, OK, PK, fine. But 18-20 minutes every game is a joke.

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02-28-2004, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesman
Everyone agrees (or should) that Chow is not a good defensive player. He SHOULD be sitting if you are trying to hold teh lead at the end of a game. The question is that benching policy is not applied uniformly, and especially when it comes to Bates. Face offs, OK, PK, fine. But 18-20 minutes every game is a joke.
I agree IMO bates should probably be in the 12-15 min range. I think it may start to head more into that directin now with Parrish back & with Yashin coming back soon.

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02-28-2004, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesman
The question is that benching policy is not applied uniformly, and especially when it comes to Bates. Face offs, OK, PK, fine. But 18-20 minutes every game is a joke.
Not to mention, power play time. The guy is a great defensive player, without a doubt. But he is not a goal scorer...I believe he had an open net to shoot at last night and missed. If he had scored, there would've been a better cushion to protect a lead. But he just doesn't have the hands. And he has been having these problems mostly all year long. Give the PP time to Ollie, Chow, Weinhandl, Ronning, Hunts, Parry, or Blake...not Bates. He has 4 PP assists this year and no goals. And he also has the lowest shooting percentage among forwards (not counting Mapletoft). Keep him in defensive situations, and just leave him sitting during the PP.

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02-28-2004, 10:43 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255
I agree IMO bates should probably be in the 12-15 min range. I think it may start to head more into that directin now with Parrish back & with Yashin coming back soon.
Can't argue with that. I've always felth that bates is a very good 3rd and 4th liner. However, until some other player steps up and earns his minutes than you have to play him on the top six.

However, like you said if the Isles can get Parrish and Yashin playing close to a 100% than the Isles can use their depth properly.

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02-28-2004, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesman
The question is that benching policy is not applied uniformly, and especially when it comes to Bates.
We should hope that the supreme court is fair, just and uniform. A hockey team and coach are an entirely different matter. I Have no problem with a coach treating one player different than another. Each player has a way in which you get the most out of them.

As for Bates, he has earned the trust of TWO professional coaches, Laviolette and Stirling. I'd say both have a wee bit more knowledge than us fan(atic)s.

Just the same, I don't want to be known as in favor of Bates playing so much. Because that is not accurate either. In an ideal situation Bates should be given consistent 3rd or 4th line time. However, until now because injuries or underachievement from other players, Bates has been getting more icetime.

Stirling has the team playing well, while missing key components. He has helped to further develop Hunter and Dipietro into credible producing players. The Isles seem to be solidifying their playoff position and still are in striking distance of moving up into the pack. So, I cannot understand why so many people are critical of Stirling.

But then again, we do not all have to agree.

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02-29-2004, 06:40 AM
  #21
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Bates can do no wrong!

He is constantly rewarded more icetime.

You can argue about his defensive contributions but he is also put out there in powerplays and OT.

This from a guy who scored just 1 goal in the past 35 games or so.

And they all talk him up and make excuses for him.

The coach and in particular Micheletti constantly praises him and makes excuses for him like he's been playing with injuries all season.

I also think Bates is not a good of a defensive player as he was in recent years.

If this team is gonna rely so heavily on Bates, we are in deep trouble. This guy peaked a long time ago and is on the way down.

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02-29-2004, 10:53 AM
  #22
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Here is a list of our forwards (when all healthy).
Tier 1. Yashin, Kvasha, Peca, Scatch, Parrish, Chow, Hunter, Asham, Weinhandl, Blake.
Tier 2. Ronning, Bates, Papineau.

As can be seen, ther is just no justification for Bates to be in the top 6, and the third line is also a stretch. Misusing him means we are hurtin ouselves by also misusing the guy he replaces.
The job of the top two lines is primarilty to provide offense with an acceptable defensive responsibility. The third line is usually the primary defensive unit, with as much offense as can be added.
The fourth line is usually the energy, defense line that can sometimes score.
Look at our personnel and see how using Bates on the top two lines hurts us. We have a lot of top 6 forwards, more than can be accomodated. The third line presumes that Scatch centers Blake and either Parrish or Asham. If you replace Asham with Bates, you lose one of the things we are very short on, physical play and size. Plus Ash is a better goal scorer than Bates.
With our group of players, even Weinhandl, who is really a top 6 skilled player, winds up on the 4th line. He can move up if Chow starts to get lazy.
But Bates is sooooo 4th line. He could be a force on theh4th line. I would love to see a 4th line next year of Bates, Bergenheim, Blake or Asham. That could be a 4th line we can "roll" 10 miutes, give the top guys some rest, and contribute.

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02-29-2004, 11:41 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesman
I would love to see a 4th line next year of Bates, Bergenheim, Blake or Asham. That could be a 4th line we can "roll" 10 miutes, give the top guys some rest, and contribute.
Again, I can't agree with you more. The only reason I defend Bates minutes now is because the Isles presently lack an alternative. Ultimately, with them getting more healthy and hopefully if Wienhandl can take the next step than absolutely I want to see Bates dropped down the charts.

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02-29-2004, 08:23 PM
  #24
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Lets face it Bates ain't that good. He was the one who took the bad penalty that led to the tying goal with pittsburgh. Yet he was on the ice for the whole third period and OT even though he took a stupid penalty.

I mean Bates has had two seasons of too much ice time and little in the way of results. Bates role should be a foruth liner who gets alot of PK time.

I'm truly convinced Bates has to be the best practice player around for him to be getting all this ice time.

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02-29-2004, 08:54 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Islander's batman
I'm truly convinced Bates has to be the best practice player around for him to be getting all this ice time.
...Well said. Bates' offense has been just dreadful. At least he isn't costing us on the D end

Alos...What is Stirling doing with a PP unit that has Bates, Blake and Ronning on it? Unreal. The minute we lose puck possession....that's it.

Nevertheless, Stirling has done a lot with a little...so can't get on him too bad

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