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Do we over rate some of our players?

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Old
10-29-2008, 04:30 PM
  #76
chris11inter
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I honestly laugh at how we criticize the Canucks for there lack of offense and the sisters are not very good yadda yadda. However if we were to look at it without our homer glasses on we would see Henrik & Daniel are a better first line that Hork & Hemmer.

This is just one of many examples......

(I'm not trying to change the direction of this thread as I did start the thread. However I have a feeling the Hemsky & Horcoff are great first liners comments begin)

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10-29-2008, 04:35 PM
  #77
Section337
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Many times we have a battle of adjectives on these boards. Someone makes a statement and somebody attaches their very own adjective, thus making it easier to ridicule, despite significantly modifying the other person's statement. Or someone attaches the adjective themselves, offering much more room for another person to provide an arguement.

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Old
10-29-2008, 04:46 PM
  #78
jeremywilhelm
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hey, its our job to overreact and ***** and moan and make fun of other teams, otherwise coming on here while at work on a slow day would be insanely boring!

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10-29-2008, 05:40 PM
  #79
WinnipegOil
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I think so!!

I was reading an article on the net about the NHL's top centers, wingers, Dman and goalies and realized that the Oilers have very little representation on the lists. Made me think, we're overating our players

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10-29-2008, 05:54 PM
  #80
razman22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnipegOil View Post
I was reading an article on the net about the NHL's top centers, wingers, Dman and goalies and realized that the Oilers have very little representation on the lists. Made me think, we're overating our players
Good point, you don't see many Oilers in any of the top players at each positions rankings. That didn't stop one of the Richard Simmons twins from predicting the Oilers would score 268 goals this season (which would have led the league in goals scored last year). That's a huge over rating of players to predict the Oilers would led the league in goals scored.

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10-29-2008, 06:06 PM
  #81
chris11inter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnipegOil View Post
I was reading an article on the net about the NHL's top centers, wingers, Dman and goalies and realized that the Oilers have very little representation on the lists. Made me think, we're overating our players
I agree.

Garon- Pretty good- but an average goalie in this league.. He was not a starter anywhere else and I highly suspect he will be an average goalie here. (Say Top half 15 best)

Dmen- Vish is a great PP guy and very good offensivly however is not the best defensivly. There is a reason Souray was one of the last "big name" players to be signed during that off season. Both of these guys to me are considered Tier 2 Dmen (Tier 1 very select few- Prongs, Niedermeyer, Lidstrom, Zubov, Phaneuf, Campbell, Rory Fitzpatrick & maybe a few more that slip my mind) . The rest to me would be considered Tier 3 dmen (Could be interchanged amongst most people right now- Yes Gilbs & Grebs could potentially be Tier 2) .

Offensivly- The simple fact of the matter is this team does not have a guy that has ever finished a season being a PPG player. Hemsky(77) , Hork (73 ), Cole (61) are their career highs. They depend heavily on the kid line (I know it's broken up now) who is still very unproven and now playing against top pairing defencemen. (Don't get me wrong, I think all 3 will be top level players in this league at sometime, but they are not there yet). Scoring by committee is great, however you still need that "guy" or two to get the job done when needed.


I really think us Oiler fans need to take a good step back and realize what we have. We have a team that in a couple years (with steady progression) could be a top 5 team in the NHL. However at this time, we are no different then the past 10 years of a team fighting for 7-12 place.

I remember having an argurment with a few friends about hypothetical trade in the offseason, and it was a Spezza for Cogliano deal.. And they all crucified me fore wanting to get rid of Cogs..... Again over rate our players?

Just a thought !

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10-29-2008, 06:20 PM
  #82
Jussha
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Ya, well it is hard to compare any team to the wings, everything has just been turning up roses for them. I mean every low round player just turns to gold, I know they have great scouts and development, but hard not to say that to some degree they have just been plain lucky. which is ok, I mean the oilers in the 80s had a ton of luck on their side.

They are starting to sign some deals that aren't that great. Filpula to me is just not a great hockey player, Stuart is signed for the same money as Gilbert, I think Gilbert is as good now and will be better in the future. come next year when Samulson, Franzen, Zetter all have to signed, you might not like their contrats much.

Any way, Gilbert signed fot he going rate. look at Streit, 30 year old rookie, had a good year on a great pp, played less then stellar D, won't get better, and he gets 4 mill. that was the market.
Of course luck does play a small role, but the front office of detroit is run top notch in the nhl, after the lockout detroit was getting writ off as a team that would be on the decline, they lost fedorov, shortly after yzerman retired and shanahan left and ppl really thought detroit was going to fade away, but they didn't because their players they needed to take control of the team did so and now its hard to argue that Datsyuk and Zetteberg are not top 5 players in the NHL. How can players who aren't suppose to even make the NHL become so dominant? Sure their own skill and work ethic helps our greatly, but so does the overall team philosophy and how the front office runs that team philosophy. Then, the veteran players buy into that team philosophy and pass it on to the new players and so on and so on. That's why a player like Dan Cleary, who I always wanted to succeed in Edmonton, and thought had decent talent was able to rediscover himself in Detroit and actually live up tp half his potential at the least, but if Edmonton had decided to keep him he would probably be no where in the NHL right now.

You are quick to jump on the Filppula contract? How many games have u actually watched the kid play? The guy plays on the third line and is still capable of generating 40-50 pts in that position. Did you know that after every practice he stays a bit extra working on his stick work and stick checking with Datsyuk to improve his game. The kid is already very good defensively, and only 24, and signed a deal only worth 0.5 million more than Fernando Pisani, who actually is a career grinder. Filppula may only be a third liner on a stacked detroit team right now, but if you watch him u can tell the kid wants to get better and better, and has bought into detroit's team philosophy, in 2 years he will be just as good as any Oiler on our top 6.

The Stuart contract isn't the greatest, but if your saying Tom Gilbert went for the going rate, How can u say Brad Stuart, who signed for less, and is proven top 4 dman on most teams in terms of overall play didn't sign for the going rate (he signed for 3.5 million a year so he is less than Gilbert)?

Now you bring up an important issue and something that will really test Ken Holland as the top GM in the NHL today, how much of those key players can he keep? But you see, that is the problem that arises when every single one of your players (except a very few) is becoming everything you wanted them to be. Did you know that Detroit's top prospect of the moment was the "last" player drafted in the 2002 entry draft? When you're the last player in the entry draft you shouldn't even have a crack at making the NHL, yet most of detroit's staff has this kid already penciled in as a top 4 on the team right now, but due to having so many veterans and him (Ericsson) having one final year of waiver exemption he has to stay in Grand Rapids. Even the last player Detroit took this year in the draft (Jesper Samuelsson) is playing top line minutes in the swedish Elite League and performing quite well. Ken Holland even said he has having a hard time keeping the 50 players signed to contract that you are allowed because all detroits prospects seem like they can have a future role on the team.

Finally, you use Gilbert to Streit as a comparison, and yes Gilbert did go for the going rate at the time because some bad contracts were signed, but this brings up an important question. Does one signing of a bad contract justify the signing of another bad contract? Sure we can even bring up the Jeff Finger contract, but that contract sucked, does Lowe belong in the same group of GMs that signed those ridiculous contracts, cause if we are using that as justification of Lowe's moves, all that means to me is that Lowe is a bottom tier GM. When you think about it, the success of our team over the past 10 years, minus the one stanley cup finals run, suggests to me that Lowe has to be a bottom tier GM, or MacTavish is a horrible coach, either way, one of them has to be held accountable soon because it seems that our team is built for mediocrity, and that the fans are happy with mediocrity. I want the Oilers to win and win soon, and even with our current moves, the way the team is being managed I really don't see us competing for the stanley cup any time soon. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but its honestly how I feel about the overall direction of this team.

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10-29-2008, 07:29 PM
  #83
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I too could not believe what I was reading when that guy said he would not trade Fernando Pisani straight up for Marion Gaborik. Never have I read more homerism on this board in all the years I have been here. Unbelievable.

And before you say Gaborik will be a free agent and we lose Pisani for 60 games of Gabori, yeah, so what? $2.5 for Pisani would be a great contract to dump. Players like him are a dime a dozen. And make half.


Last edited by Loweball: 10-29-2008 at 07:39 PM.
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Old
10-29-2008, 08:07 PM
  #84
Jussha
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
I too could not believe what I was reading when that guy said he would not trade Fernando Pisani straight up for Marion Gaborik. Never have I read more homerism on this board in all the years I have been here. Unbelievable.

And before you say Gaborik will be a free agent and we lose Pisani for 60 games of Gabori, yeah, so what? $2.5 for Pisani would be a great contract to dump. Players like him are a dime a dozen. And make half.
did someone on this board actually say they wouldn't do that trade because of that, oh man, that is hilarious lol

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Old
10-29-2008, 08:10 PM
  #85
Abused Catatonically
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Originally Posted by chris11inter View Post
I love this comment... Especially when your name has the tag line "Cogliano for HHOF "

haha..
Jesus can do anything that he wants..... Lest he strike you down.

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Old
10-29-2008, 08:27 PM
  #86
Perfect_Drug
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Cogs is in the HHOF




3 consecutive OT goals will do that.

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Old
10-29-2008, 09:06 PM
  #87
kanataoilfan
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the problem is us

All these threads about wanting to fire MacT or overrating our players are driving me nuts. I think the problem is not with the coaching but with the fans. We expect too much too soon.

i think the oilers have too many young players to expect them to be a top team this year. generally young players are too inconsistent. its not like the oilers glory days when they could play bad for two periods and score their way out of trouble in the 3rd. in a year or two my expectations will be higher.

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Old
10-29-2008, 09:20 PM
  #88
Ghostbuster
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I think with alot of players, we see them play amazing for certain stretches such as the end of last year. Then we just assume they will only get better. Except they don't, they come back down to earth, and we still argue with something that has happened in the past.

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