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Old
10-28-2008, 09:14 AM
  #26
cydawg
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So we have a thread to trade our franchise player and a thread to fire one of the top 5 (arguably) coaches in the game.

On firing Hitch, the question shouldn't be should we fire Hitch. The question should be who do we get to replace him? There isn't anyone on the coaching staff I would want to replace him save maybe Gord Murphy; and even then I think we need an experienced head coach. There isn't anyone in Syracuse that I think is qualified at this point. Would another high profile "name" coach want to come here after we fire Hitch? Doubt it. And even then, who's available? Dennis Savard? I'll take Hitch over Gerrard Gallant V2.0.

Be careful what you people wish for. This team was built to be a Hitch team. We need to remember that. If someone else comes in, then what happens? Rebuild at the end of the season again? The franchise can't afford that either.

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10-28-2008, 09:17 AM
  #27
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The thought of rebuilding yet again makes me throw up in my mouth.

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10-28-2008, 09:26 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cydawg View Post
Be careful what you people wish for. This team was built to be a Hitch team. We need to remember that. If someone else comes in, then what happens? Rebuild at the end of the season again? The franchise can't afford that either.

Herein lies the problem - this team was tailored to Hitch's exact specifications, and he has been unable to win with said parts.

I know that I wouldn't be around in my current job for long if I asked for a flat-screen monitor, a corner office, a view, and 8 weeks of vacation.....and still didn't meet production.

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Old
10-28-2008, 09:27 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ Nut View Post
I want more goals in a game than the other team, period!!!
The math says that we either need to score more or have the other team score less.

Last year we didn't have the talent to have anyone beyond Nash's line score with any consistency. This year that has clearly improved with the emergence of Brassard and Voracek. They have proven to be our best scoring option. Nash and Juice remain a threat (remember Nash is 0-fer on breakaways and that will change), albeit hurting for a center. The third line is servicable and a healthy Modin should boost production. Filatov remains a wild card, but at this point shouldn't be counted on.

So what about shutting down the other team. The D-fense has been better in the last three games, but still shows room for improvement. Hitch has shown patience with the pairings and I think this has helped get them settled. We haven't seen Tyutin's best yet and Backman remains somewhat of a question mark, but Methot has been steady, Hejda is regaining last years form, and Commodore, well, still needs to settle.

Goaltending has been a problem. Leclaire played great against Vancouver but the injuries are killing the Jackets. With Leclaire in last night, I would definitely hedge my bets that we would be celebrating a win or at least a tie today. I think he really needs to go down to Syracuse - he will clear waivers - and play 10 straight games. If he plays well, bring him back up, if not, then he stays down. If this fails, then Mason needs to be the man in Syracuse. If his knee holds up and he plays well, call him up. Last resort - bring in another goalie. Khabibulin would be an expensive acquisition, and I'm not sure how exciting Chicago would be to give him to us, but he might be a short term fix and light a fire under the rest of our keepers.

Getting rid of Hitch now really doesn't make sense. We need stability to build a winner. Firing the coach at this point puts us right back into chaos - not good.

Personally I'm hoping that we beat the snot out of Colorado on Thursday and have a strong outing against the Hawks on Saturday. That will go along way to instilling some hope back into the season.

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10-28-2008, 09:38 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kutter View Post
Getting rid of Hitch now really doesn't make sense. We need stability to build a winner. Firing the coach at this point puts us right back into chaos - not good.

Personally I'm hoping that we beat the snot out of Colorado on Thursday and have a strong outing against the Hawks on Saturday. That will go along way to instilling some hope back into the season.
If we are consistently losing than stability is not what we need.

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10-28-2008, 09:41 AM
  #31
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I'm not sure if this franchise could survive another rebuilding.

I'm not sure if this franchise could win with Hitch as coach.

Talk about a lose-lose situation.

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Old
10-28-2008, 09:45 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJ Nut View Post
The thought of rebuilding yet again makes me throw up in my mouth.
We never built, or rebuilt, properly. We are suffering the consequences.

I don't want to rebuild either. But it's inevitable.

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10-28-2008, 09:46 AM
  #33
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Hitch surprised me by putting Brassard on the powerplay, and giving Voracek the QB role, based on his inability to respect what young players can do for a team..

The fact that he is changing his ways a bit is great. Now they need to dump a defender so they can make room for Russell, who clearly deserves a spot on the big squad. (not to mention Backman is a liability and Commodore is just flat out garbage)

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10-28-2008, 09:50 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fury View Post
Hitch surprised me by putting Brassard on the powerplay, and giving Voracek the QB role, based on his inability to respect what young players can do for a team..

The fact that he is changing his ways a bit is great. Now they need to dump a defender so they can make room for Russell, who clearly deserves a spot on the big squad. (not to mention Backman is a liability and Commodore is just flat out garbage)
Hitch plays the most skilled guys on the team, regardless of age. In this case, Brassard and Voracek are two of the three most skilled guys on the team, and are getting decent ice time.

The problem arrises with guys like Joakim Lindstrom and Kris Russell, guys who need ice time and opportunities in order to bloom. They don't get them under Hitch.

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10-28-2008, 09:52 AM
  #35
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How about Filatov? He's never been given a chance from Hitch to play with other playmakers.

I can't possibly agree that Hitch doesn't focus on age/time in the league first and foremost. Hell, Matvichuk almost made the damn team haha!

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10-28-2008, 10:05 AM
  #36
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Bring Back Dave King!

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Old
10-28-2008, 10:17 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WALLY View Post
I agree with this guy. On some level, I'm happy that we have an NHL team in Columbus to support. Would I like them to do better? Absolutely! And during the offseason, as H&H were making moves, everyone was questioning their motives or cheering/jeering the aquisitions, blah blah blah... When the dust settled, all people could talk about was that "Hitch finally had his guys! Not carryovers. Not bad contracts that he was forced to deal/work with."

Everyone needs to step it up. Fans. Players. Captains. Coaches. It disgusted me that people booed Zherdev Friday and even moreso that the Jackets were booed last night. They played a fantastic game and put up one hell of a fight, and sadly couldn't hold on. Where's the thread discussing what's going right? Asking for another overhaul & "quick fix" that will take years to realize...

We're only 9 games in.

P.S. Where's the list of available no. 1 centers that the Jackets will put money on?
I agree with you for the most part. My problem is that I finally have an NHL team in my town and I'm already worried about their future here. Attendance isn't very reassuring. I will always support this team, but the fanbase is getting smaller and that isn't going to change until we finally find some success.

The losing record year after year doesn't freak me out, it's what might happen to the team if it continues.

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10-28-2008, 10:20 AM
  #38
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Well, management has to also understand that attendance will inevitably be indicative of the quality on the ice.

If Cbus wants to build new membership, they are going to have to have a successful season.

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Old
10-28-2008, 10:21 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Herein lies the problem - this team was tailored to Hitch's exact specifications, and he has been unable to win with said parts.

I know that I wouldn't be around in my current job for long if I asked for a flat-screen monitor, a corner office, a view, and 8 weeks of vacation.....and still didn't meet production.
I agree but since the team is tailored to Hitch, what do we do with the team after we bring someone else in? Do we bring in another Hitch type coach? All that would do is prove whether or not Hitch was the problem. Then, if Hitch wasn't the problem, we need to remake the team again and probably hire a new coach again.

And if we bring in a Lindy Ruff or Mike Babcock type, a more puck possession/offensive coach, we wont have the players to run that system with a few exceptions. So we'd have to go out and find those players through trades/free agency and we can kiss this season and probably next season goodbye.

I'm not advocating keeping Hitch or firing him. I'm saying that we could potentially be worse off than we are now and an additional 1-2 years away from the playoffs.

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Old
10-28-2008, 10:33 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Herein lies the problem - this team was tailored to Hitch's exact specifications, and he has been unable to win with said parts.

I know that I wouldn't be around in my current job for long if I asked for a flat-screen monitor, a corner office, a view, and 8 weeks of vacation.....and still didn't meet production.
But would they fire you after three weeks?

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Old
10-28-2008, 10:38 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
But would they fire you after three weeks?
Are you insinuating that we have only had "Hitch guys" on this team for 3 weeks? And that he has only had 3 weeks to install his way of doing things??

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Old
10-28-2008, 10:46 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cydawg View Post
And if we bring in a Lindy Ruff or Mike Babcock type, a more puck possession/offensive coach, we wont have the players to run that system with a few exceptions. So we'd have to go out and find those players through trades/free agency and we can kiss this season and probably next season goodbye.
Huselius, Nash, Brassard, Voracek, Filatov. I think we could play an offensive system just fine. The 3rd and 4th line will still need checking players even in an offensive system.

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10-28-2008, 10:47 AM
  #43
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Yeah, DJ's right Kallio. That's a bad analogy. This team may not be perfectly built to Hitchcock's specs, but even Doug Maclean was working on that when he was here. Getting rid of Anson Carter, resigning Modin... Moves made to make this team more accurately reflect what Hitch wants have been happening for nearly two years. And the sucktitude persists.

And Hitch keeps telling us "I'm looking for players to play better..." Whatever. Coach better coach.

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Old
10-28-2008, 10:52 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Huselius, Nash, Brassard, Voracek, Filatov. I think we could play an offensive system just fine. The 3rd and 4th line will still need checking players even in an offensive system.
Ok, so we have 1.66 lines and Russell and Backman. We don't have anyone else on the backend who can get the puck up the ice. If you think our transition looks bad in a defensive system, just wait till you see it in an offensive system.

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10-28-2008, 10:56 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Are you insinuating that we have only had "Hitch guys" on this team for 3 weeks? And that he has only had 3 weeks to install his way of doing things??
This team -- not last year's, not the year before's -- is the one built to Hitch's specs. You said that yourself.

Certainly there are guys that carried over from last year, but half the defense is brand new, as are four of the top six or seven guys being looked to to score.

Oh wait, I forgot preseason, so I guess it is like six weeks or so. My bad.

I don't see the point of investing the thought/time/energy into building a product to a certain style only to turn around and trash it almost immediately.

Don't misunderstand me -- I'm not happy with the results thus far either -- I just don't think the axe needs to fall yet.

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10-28-2008, 11:03 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by IAMthespoon View Post
Which has me asking myself a question. We all know the team is "built" to Hitchcock's specifications (to the extent possible). So if Hitch gets sent walking, how quickly can the team be turned around/remade/forged into something else? Could a new coach come in, take a look at what he's inherited and make it into something different (and better) or is the team built so definitively toward one type of play that it would be difficult or impossible to do quickly and without major personnel changes?
I thought about this the other day. I don't think the situation is that bad. I'm trying to be as objective as I can, basing my evaluation on what these guys have already showed at NHL. Suitable for any coach and system:

First line: Nash - xxx - Huselius
The wingers could be 1st line players in any team and style. We're missing the center, we either need to trade for one, use one of our vets or try Brassard there.

2nd line Modin - Brassard - Voracek
Two rookies and one oft injured player, relatively weakest of our lines. I believe Modin could still play 2nd line when healthy. Chimera and Umberger are other options there.

3rd line Umberger - Peca - Torres
Good 3rd line. Torres is currently injured, but this would be OK 3rd line on any team. Other option on wing is Chimera.

4th Chimera - Malhotra - Boll
Another solid line. Speed, skill, toughness and faceoffs very good for 4th line. Other possible players Picard, Murray, Novotny, Dorsett etc.

REALISTIC:
Those lines would suit any coach, any type of play. Let's assume that Brassard & Voracek are ready to play 2nd line. Then only wishing here is that Modin stays healthy. Still need 1st line center, we should be able to acquire one by trade deadline. All other players are playing where they should be based on their skill, some even lower.

IF WE'RE LUCKY
Joker card is Filatov, he could be ready for 2nd line either this season or next year, so Brassard moves to 1st and we're set. Brassard and Voracek might be very good 2nd liners already, haven't seen enough games to be sure yet. That would make the weak second line good. Mayorov could be 2nd liner by next season.

Defense:
We're weaker here.

1st (2nd) Tuytin-Commodore
2nd (3rd) Klesla-Hejda
3rd (-)choice of Methot/OKT/Russell/Bäckman

REALISTIC:
A little torn. Tuytin-Commodore could be good 1st pair even this season. Klesla-Hejda could be good 2nd pair. 3rd pair is OK for NHL. Russell or Bäckman could be ready for 2nd pair and powerplay this season.

Almost as realistic is that we are currently missing the whole first pair, the pairs we have should be demoted one spot. Russell is the only defender with considerable potential on organization, others are 3rd pair or years away at best. We may need to trade and sign for talent here.

Goalie:
Leclaire
Norrena

REALISTIC: Leclaire is either very good or good goalie when he's healthy. Norrena is (good)/OK/bad when he plays. Mason can be the back-up next season. Again a bit unsure, goalie could be a strength or weakness for the team.

IF WE'RE LUCKY Leclaire stays healthy and is all-star material. Norrena regains confidence, and is capable back-up for rest of the season. Mason is ready to challenge for starting/back-up duty by trade deadline.

So if a new coach steps in, we should have a decent package for him already.We should be few points from playoffs by the trade deadline. Give up some kind of combination of Filatov/Mayorov, Mason/Leclaire, 1st round pick(s) and some of our veterans to acquire a great center and/or defender. We could make the 2nd round of playoffs.

The team is quite well set for future seasons. We have lot of good young talent that's only going to improve (Brassard, Voracek, Filatov, Mayorov, Mason). Plenty of prospects that could turn out good (Weber, Goloubef, Plekhanov, Hansen, Ruth...)

We still lack the pieces that we've always missed, but we have more talent than ever. Guys acquired last summer should be played where they belong based on skill, that way we have a very good foundation for any kind of tactic.

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Old
10-28-2008, 11:05 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
I don't see the point of investing the thought/time/energy into building a product to a certain style only to turn around and trash it almost immediately.

Don't misunderstand me -- I'm not happy with the results thus far either -- I just don't think the axe needs to fall yet.
Let's say we give Hitch the whole season. Let's say we miss the playoffs again. Would the off-season be the appropriate time to fire him? That would mean we are rebuilding in the off-season anyway. Just trying to get a sense of how long we stick with the plan.

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Old
10-28-2008, 11:07 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
Yeah, DJ's right Kallio. That's a bad analogy. This team may not be perfectly built to Hitchcock's specs, but even Doug Maclean was working on that when he was here. Getting rid of Anson Carter, resigning Modin... Moves made to make this team more accurately reflect what Hitch wants have been happening for nearly two years. And the sucktitude persists.

And Hitch keeps telling us "I'm looking for players to play better..." Whatever. Coach better coach.
He started the analogy, not me.

But I stand by it.

Sure there were some minor moves made (Modin resigning, Hejda), but we all knew last year was about biding time, treading water and hoping for the best.

Like it or not, rightly or wrongly, Hitch and Howson have had their eyes on this year all along - dumping players they didn't like and bringing in players they do.
That's the reality of the situation.

The anti-Hitch/Howson-ites should be loving this right now.
This is their baby, no doubt and its going to make or break both of their times here, but as I said in an earlier post, I don't think that time has arrived yet.

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10-28-2008, 11:11 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by DJAnimosity View Post
Let's say we give Hitch the whole season. Let's say we miss the playoffs again. Would the off-season be the appropriate time to fire him? That would mean we are rebuilding in the off-season anyway. Just trying to get a sense of how long we stick with the plan.
I don't have an answer to your question. It's like pornography - I'll know it when I see it.

Maybe I'll feel different after 15 games, maybe 20, maybe 50, maybe never.

What I do feel now is that 9 games is not enough time.

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10-28-2008, 11:14 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
He started the analogy, not me.

But I stand by it.

Sure there were some minor moves made (Modin resigning, Hejda), but we all knew last year was about biding time, treading water and hoping for the best.

Like it or not, rightly or wrongly, Hitch and Howson have had their eyes on this year all along - dumping players they didn't like and bringing in players they do.
That's the reality of the situation.

The anti-Hitch/Howson-ites should be loving this right now.
This is their baby, no doubt and its going to make or break both of their times here, but as I said in an earlier post, I don't think that time has arrived yet.
The problem I have with this is that I don't think it's similar to your portrayal. This is more like a guy is saying "well, if I just had a better phone, I could call more people and sell more" and he gets the phone and it still doesn't work so he says, "well, I need a new car so I can meet with people face-to-face" and he gets the car and still doesn't sell and he says "I need a new projector to make my presentation look extra spiffy" and he gets the projector...

You get my point.

This version of the CBJ tastes like New Coke so far. We know how long that lasted.

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