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Re-Signing Bouw and Letting Boynton Walk vs Signing Boynton and Trading Bouw for ?

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10-23-2008, 01:05 PM
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Georgia Panther
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Re-Signing Bouw and Letting Boynton Walk vs Signing Boynton and Trading Bouw for ?

I thought the obvious answer would be to sign Bouw and let Boynton walk as a free agent but I'm having second thoughts as I've been impressed with Boynton's play so far. For what it would take to re-sign Bouw, $8mil plus, that would certainly preclude also re-signing Boynton and adding forward help from outside the organization. Trading Boynton at the deadline would likely yield no near term offensive help but trading Bouw likely would. So if the choice is resigning Bouw and letting Boynton go and getting no forward help from outside the Organization or keeping Boynton and trading Bouw to strengthen our forward lines, which would you choose?

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10-23-2008, 01:13 PM
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If we we're a playoffs contender at the trade deadline, there's no way we trade Bouwmeester, even if it means to lose him for nothing at the end of the season

Martin will live or die with Bouwmeester

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10-23-2008, 01:28 PM
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If we we're a playoffs contender at the trade deadline, there's no way we trade Bouwmeester, even if it means to lose him for nothing at the end of the season

Martin will live or die with Bouwmeester
I would say Bouwmeester is top priority over Boynten (although I have really enjoyed his play up until now).

I say if he is not signed by the deadline, trade him unless we are 1st overall in the eastern conference (even if we were first overall I would still consider trading him because his value would be astronomical and by then if he wouldn't sign with us then he obviously doesn't want to play in florida)

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10-23-2008, 01:31 PM
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If we replace Bouwmeester with Boynton, our defense is probably 25% worse, if not more.

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10-23-2008, 01:36 PM
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Trade Bouw. Even if we are in playoff contention, you simply CAN'T risk losing him and being able to help the franchise long term, for just 1 round of playoffs in which we would most likely exit extremely early, I'm a firm believer that if he doesn't sign an extension of even 1 yr by the deadline, he is as good as gone, playoffs or not.

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10-23-2008, 02:00 PM
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I am on the optimistic side, saying that Bouw signs for at least three years before the deadline. I think we are going to be in the top eight come February, and that, along with the style of play, will be enough evidence for Bouw to sign here long term. I dont think its going to take $8 million to sign him, more like $7 million, which should be his asking price. Since we are going to be around $16 million under the cap next season I believe, I say we sign both, and add a winger in the offseason, unless Bouw signs here and Martin adds some type of winger at the deadline.

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10-23-2008, 02:02 PM
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In reality impossible to answer without knowing who "?" is. But, just for fun, if ? is a capable 1st/2nd line center I would trade Bouw. Our D looks like it could be ok even without Bouw. With McCabe, Ballard, Allen and Skrastins (who has picked up his play and looks reliable right now), we could even let both Bouw and Boynton go for cheaper guys. After just 6 games, this is not a very strong opinion though.

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10-23-2008, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I am on the optimistic side, saying that Bouw signs for at least three years before the deadline. I think we are going to be in the top eight come February, and that, along with the style of play, will be enough evidence for Bouw to sign here long term. I dont think its going to take $8 million to sign him, more like $7 million, which should be his asking price. Since we are going to be around $16 million under the cap next season I believe, I say we sign both, and add a winger in the offseason, unless Bouw signs here and Martin adds some type of winger at the deadline.
How do you figure that? We are $2 million from it now. We have already signed Ballard to a $2 million raise for next year. The cap probably wont go up next year. We need to sign both Bo and Booth. It is very tight.

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10-23-2008, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Booth10 View Post
How do you figure that? We are $2 million from it now. We have already signed Ballard to a $2 million raise for next year. The cap probably wont go up next year. We need to sign both Bo and Booth. It is very tight.
I think the cap will go up to around $58-59 million next year, which is at most a $3 million jump, which is reasonable. We have 13 players under contract next season, at a little more than $38 million. Booth, Stewart, and Welch are all RFAs next season, and Booth seems to be the only one that will get a significant raise, which I expect to be around the same money Weiss gets. Zednik, Dvorak, Peltonen, Bouwmeester, Boynton, Skrastins, and Anderson are all UFAs at seasons end. I expect Anderson, Boynton, and maybe Skrastins to sign. Then that leaves us to Bouwmeester. Lets say signs here for $7 million/per. This is how I see it:

Bouwmeester - $7 million/per
Booth - $3 million/per
Anderson - $800k/per ($250k raise)
Skrastins - $1.5 million
Boynton - $1.5 million/per
Stewart - $600k

That total, combined with the players we have under contract already, puts us at $53 million, which would put us $6 million under the cap. I think that if we have a playoff birth this season, Cohen will allow Martin to spend near the cap again next offseason. If we can maybe shed another contract or two, we have enough money to go after a top tier forward.

Oh, and thats taking into account Olesz's and Ballard's raises BTW.

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10-23-2008, 02:55 PM
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Why don't we try to re-sign both if we can?

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10-23-2008, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I am on the optimistic side, saying that Bouw signs for at least three years before the deadline. I think we are going to be in the top eight come February, and that, along with the style of play, will be enough evidence for Bouw to sign here long term. I dont think its going to take $8 million to sign him, more like $7 million, which should be his asking price. Since we are going to be around $16 million under the cap next season I believe, I say we sign both, and add a winger in the offseason, unless Bouw signs here and Martin adds some type of winger at the deadline.
i like this scenario myself. i'm thinking 3 years as well.

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In reality impossible to answer without knowing who "?" is. But, just for fun, if ? is a capable 1st/2nd line center I would trade Bouw. Our D looks like it could be ok even without Bouw. With McCabe, Ballard, Allen and Skrastins (who has picked up his play and looks reliable right now), we could even let both Bouw and Boynton go for cheaper guys. After just 6 games, this is not a very strong opinion though.
i don't care who it is, no top 6 guy is going to compensate for the loss of jay. we would NOT be ok without jay. i don't know how one could come away with that impression after watching the games thus far and especially after watching a team with some of the most talented players in the world stymied with no D support - we simply cannot downgrade at all on D if we want to take the next step toward being a contender. if jay is moved, we have to address D next off-season again.

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10-23-2008, 03:07 PM
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Why don't we try to re-sign both if we can?
i agree! this is one of the silliest thread titles i've seen around here in some time. boynton or bouwmeester?

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10-23-2008, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
i like this scenario myself. i'm thinking 3 years as well.



i don't care who it is, no top 6 guy is going to compensate for the loss of jay. we would NOT be ok without jay. i don't know how one could come away with that impression after watching the games thus far and especially after watching a team with some of the most talented players in the world stymied with no D support - we simply cannot downgrade at all on D if we want to take the next step toward being a contender. if jay is moved, we have to address D next off-season again.
So what would you do at the deadline if Bouw didn't want to negotiate a contract? Would you have the balls to hold on to him and hope he does in the offseason?

I agree trading Jay would SUCK. But what else is there to do if he doesn't sign an extension?

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10-23-2008, 03:20 PM
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My knee-jerk response is if there's no deal by the 2-week-to-trade-deadline mark then he has to be moved to avoid losing him...

...but what if the Panthers are looking to be in the playoff picture at that point and he's still not signing? Do you trade him, knowing it could cost you the first playoff berth in nearly a decade and certainly will mean a first-round exit even if you squeak in? Or do you hold him for the playoffs hoping to at least make the second round then let him walk or deal his negotiating rights for a token draft pick?

At this point, the defense isn't very good without Jay. Not that they're all bad, there's just not enough depth to cover the loss of the #1 guy. I also find it bothersome that Cullimore isn't signed yet, despite the glaring need to replace either Welch or Murphy in the lineup...not to mention what happens if one more dman drops in the next few weeks. Ellerby isn't ready, and no one else is all that close.

It's not an easy decision, and it's all in Jay's hands as to whether a decision has to be made - easy as that.

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10-23-2008, 03:24 PM
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I say deal him, even if playoff contention, what good does it do to make the playoffs for one season and not get far, and then to lose him completely and be in a worse position the next season and playoffs not even in mind?

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10-23-2008, 03:36 PM
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I say deal him, even if playoff contention, what good does it do to make the playoffs for one season and not get far, and then to lose him completely and be in a worse position the next season and playoffs not even in mind?
Yep, this team needs long term solutions. We can't afford to lose a player like Bouw and get nothing in return, that would do a huge amount of damage to our team.

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10-23-2008, 03:53 PM
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So what would you do at the deadline if Bouw didn't want to negotiate a contract? Would you have the balls to hold on to him and hope he does in the offseason?

I agree trading Jay would SUCK. But what else is there to do if he doesn't sign an extension?
tough question. i'm glad it's not my decision! if they have to deal him, they have to deal him - we won't get back a Dman who can take his place so we'd have to go out looking for another top pairing guy via free agency. that's not a good thing to be looking for at this stage of the game, imo.

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My knee-jerk response is if there's no deal by the 2-week-to-trade-deadline mark then he has to be moved to avoid losing him...

...but what if the Panthers are looking to be in the playoff picture at that point and he's still not signing? Do you trade him, knowing it could cost you the first playoff berth in nearly a decade and certainly will mean a first-round exit even if you squeak in? Or do you hold him for the playoffs hoping to at least make the second round then let him walk or deal his negotiating rights for a token draft pick?

At this point, the defense isn't very good without Jay. Not that they're all bad, there's just not enough depth to cover the loss of the #1 guy. I also find it bothersome that Cullimore isn't signed yet, despite the glaring need to replace either Welch or Murphy in the lineup...not to mention what happens if one more dman drops in the next few weeks. Ellerby isn't ready, and no one else is all that close.

It's not an easy decision, and it's all in Jay's hands as to whether a decision has to be made - easy as that.
uh... yep. the reason cullimore isn't signed is (has to be, imo) because they need to make a decision on welch. he's not hurting us *that* much in his limited time so i say keep things as they are. what do we do with these guys once mccabe/allen get healthy is the question.

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10-23-2008, 03:54 PM
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My thoughts are simple: I don't care if we are 1st place in the East and have clinched a playoff spot, if Martin and Bouw cannot agree on a long-term deal, he has to be traded. This is not the type of player you just let walk without getting anything in return. Atlanta had to do it with Hossa and now there's a chance we'll have to do it with Bouw. In my opinion, a very similar situation.

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10-23-2008, 04:33 PM
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My thoughts are simple: I don't care if we are 1st place in the East and have clinched a playoff spot, if Martin and Bouw cannot agree on a long-term deal, he has to be traded. This is not the type of player you just let walk without getting anything in return. Atlanta had to do it with Hossa and now there's a chance we'll have to do it with Bouw. In my opinion, a very similar situation.
Only difference was Atlanta was pretty much out of the playoffs come deadline time while we weren't last year and probably won't be out of the hunt this year..... with that out of the way let me remind people of who is left to sign next year and what our cap hit is.....Cap hit is already 38.128 million which leaves us with 18.572 million but more like 16 million since we won't spend to the complete cap....

Anyways. the value of our free agents are as follows
Bouwmeester 7 million
Boynton 3 million
Booth 3 million
Skrastins 2 million
Dvorak 1.5 million
Zednik 1.5 million
Stewart( if he is resigned) 600k

I really like Dvorak...he's has been tremendous this year doing all the small things... always flying around where the puck is. But Zednik...unless he scores 25+ goals.... is probably gone. I don't know where money will be to get a big forward unless bouw is moved but even then... Frolik and Matthias will be regulars next year on the team. Frolik already looks like he's gonna be here for awhile.

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10-23-2008, 04:57 PM
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i agree! this is one of the silliest thread titles i've seen around here in some time. boynton or bouwmeester?
Agreed, obviously if we can sign Bouw we'll do it. I'd like us to re-sign Boynton as well, if he keeps playing like this, to like a 3 year deal worth between 2-2.5 mil. But it's not an "either or" situation. You can't replace Bouw with Boynton. The thought of it is just ridiculous. If we do end up trading Jay for a forward, or picks/prospects, then we'll have to shop for another top pairing D in the summer.

Let Skrastins, Murphy, Zed, Dvo, and Pelts walk. Matthias, Frolik, Repik, and Ellerby will all have a great opportunity to make the team. Dadonov and Stewart will also be in the mix as well. Then all we have to re-sign is Welch and Booth who are RFA's, and Anderson who's a UFA. If we can add another forward or not through UFA probably depends on what happens with the economy and the cap, and also if Cohen can keep raising the payroll. If the cap stays about where it is or doesn't change much in either direction, we should still be able to re-sign all our own guys no problem as long as they're not asking for a ridiculous salary.

But re-signing Bouw is definitely a higher priority than adding a forward through UFA. I don't know how anyone could watch last night's game and then say different. And, I doubt Bouw gets anywhere close to 8 mil per year. Maybe 7 mil, but not much above that.

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10-23-2008, 05:45 PM
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Playoffs or not, the guy gets traded if he hasn't signed by the trade deadline. You cannot risk losing him for nothing, even if it means taking something similar to what Hossa landed last year.

Funny, the commentators mentioned this after the game last night vs. Ottawa. They said something to extent of word was that Jay would NOT be resigning with the Panthers and the trade rumors would continue throughout the year. I don't know what is in Jay's head, but I just can't see him staying here after 5 years of player/management turnover and losing.

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10-23-2008, 05:52 PM
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Playoffs or not, the guy gets traded if he hasn't signed by the trade deadline. You cannot risk losing him for nothing, even if it means taking something similar to what Hossa landed last year.
I agree on that. No matter what position we're in come the trade deadline, if he hasn't re-signed, ne needs to be traded. Hopefully we're in a playoff position though and he re-signs. Please.....

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10-23-2008, 05:55 PM
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Bouwmeester - $7 million/per $8.5 mil If not more. He'll top Chara easily on the open market because of his age and become the NHL's highest paid blueliner.
Booth - $3 million/per If Olesz is worth $3.125 mil than Booth will get at least $3.75 mil. Remember Penner got $4.25 mil coming off 1 20+goal season, Booth likely will have 2.
Anderson - $800k/per ($250k raise) If he plays 20 or less games, agreed. If he plays over 25 games, $1-$1.25mil
Skrastins - $1.5 million The guy already makes $2.4mil. As an UFA, he gets at least that if he remains in the regular rotation
Boynton - $1.5 million/per same deal as Skrastins only he makes $2.95mil already
Stewart - $600k Don't think JM will pay Stewart $600,000 to score goals in Rochester
What I think each player will make next season. Bouw will make slightly less if he signs with a team other than the Panthers.


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10-23-2008, 05:59 PM
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Agreed, obviously if we can sign Bouw we'll do it. I'd like us to re-sign Boynton as well, if he keeps playing like this, to like a 3 year deal worth between 2-2.5 mil. But it's not an "either or" situation. You can't replace Bouw with Boynton. The thought of it is just ridiculous. If we do end up trading Jay for a forward, or picks/prospects, then we'll have to shop for another top pairing D in the summer.

Let Skrastins, Murphy, Zed, Dvo, and Pelts walk. Matthias, Frolik, Repik, and Ellerby will all have a great opportunity to make the team. Dadonov and Stewart will also be in the mix as well. Then all we have to re-sign is Welch and Booth who are RFA's, and Anderson who's a UFA. If we can add another forward or not through UFA probably depends on what happens with the economy and the cap, and also if Cohen can keep raising the payroll. If the cap stays about where it is or doesn't change much in either direction, we should still be able to re-sign all our own guys no problem as long as they're not asking for a ridiculous salary.

But re-signing Bouw is definitely a higher priority than adding a forward through UFA. I don't know how anyone could watch last night's game and then say different. And, I doubt Bouw gets anywhere close to 8 mil per year. Maybe 7 mil, but not much above that.
I got to disagree with Dvorak and Skrastins... they are both great defensively...Dvorak has played out of his mind... it's not all goals and assists.... Dvorak is just a puck magnet... he's always around the puck....he's has an incredible hockey sense

Repik is not and probably won't be ready next year...maybe ellerby but realistically he needs one more year as well...all depends on how they do in the AHL. But Dadonov needs to see the AHL before he comes straight here. Frolik and Matthias are pretty much a given.

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10-23-2008, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
What I think each player will make next season. Bouw will make slightly less if he signs with a team other than the Panthers.
Phanuef got 6.5. The most Bouw will get is 7.25. He'll only get 8+ in the open market.

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