HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Atlanta: What a disaster

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-28-2008, 10:52 PM
  #51
Vic Rattlehead*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: St-Hubert, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
Are you going to tell me with a straight face that if the Blackhawks had been winning Cups in the 2000-2008 period people in Chicago would have stayed home and NOT bought tickets. Look Wirtz treated his fans like dirt for 20+ years. Once J. Roenick and Belfour left and the team stopped winning THAT'S WHEN the fans stopped coming to games. If the Hawks had put a product out there they would have filled that building in spite of their owner.
Mod Edit: deleted

The seasons of awfulness were a result of ownership not caring. Obviously if they were winning cups there wouldn't have been problems.


Last edited by Fugu: 11-01-2008 at 08:09 AM. Reason: personal comment
Vic Rattlehead* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 10:55 PM
  #52
Enstrom39
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Rattlehead View Post
Mod Edit: deleted

The seasons of awfulness were a result of ownership not caring. Obviously if they were winning cups there wouldn't have been problems.
Fine, so how is Writz "not caring" any different from a group of owners in Atlanta who have suing each other for the entire period since the lockout? Either way you slice it "not caring" = sucky hockey product = sucky fan support. If you want to argue that ownership causes bad hockey teams fine. We have to problem too.

Enstrom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 10:55 PM
  #53
Valic
BOOOOOOOOOO
 
Valic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,664
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
I want a detailed written response on how Bettman will hand Tavares or Hedman to the Thrashers please.
Same way he handed Sid to the Penguins....

Valic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 10:58 PM
  #54
ArGarBarGar
Global Moderator
Defense Please
 
ArGarBarGar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 24,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
You can't prove a positive with a negative. You can't prove that Atlanta will not support a competitive team until you have a competitive team in that market. Everything people say about Atlanta you could have said about Tampa when they sucked for a decade, or Anaheim in their first 10 years.
I didn't prove a positive with a negative but ok.

Your assertion that original six teams (and we aren't even talking about a few years after they were in the NHL) are comparable to a team that has been around 9 years and is arguably not getting any better or is getting much worse is ridiculous.

ArGarBarGar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:02 PM
  #55
therealdeal
Registered User
 
therealdeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
I didn't prove a positive with a negative but ok.

Your assertion that original six teams (and we aren't even talking about a few years after they were in the NHL) are comparable to a team that has been around 9 years and is arguably not getting any better or is getting much worse is ridiculous.
Every city is comparable. Detroit can't even fill a building while winning the cup, why is it unfair to say that they certainly would not fill the stands if they had 9 poor seasons in a row.

therealdeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:05 PM
  #56
ArGarBarGar
Global Moderator
Defense Please
 
ArGarBarGar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 24,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealdeal View Post
Every city is comparable. Detroit can't even fill a building while winning the cup, why is it unfair to say that they certainly would not fill the stands if they had 9 poor seasons in a row.
Detroit is never going to be contracted regardless of economy or business or team success or fan support. And I can tell you the fan support is there.

Neither will any original six team. I'm sorry but you can't compare the two.

ArGarBarGar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:06 PM
  #57
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 101,886
vCash: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
10 years.

Two first overall picks.
Two second overall picks.
A third overall pick.
8 picks in the top 12.

A single season of more wins than losses.

No playoff wins.

Traded Coburn for Zhitnik.

Traded a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and checker for 2 months of Tkachuk.

Thrashers fans, you have my respect - it takes courage to go down with the ship.
Actually they have had 2!

O5-06
O6-07

Overtime loses count as basically a tie so they had 2 above .500 yrs

Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:08 PM
  #58
krudmonk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sannozay
Posts: 5,509
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Thrashers are attatched to the Hawks
In that case, this thread is probably mirrored on a dozen NBA boards.

krudmonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:12 PM
  #59
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 101,886
vCash: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
Detroit, Chicago and Boston all have a history of NOT supporting their teams when they suck for long periods. Compare that to Atlanta which has 1 playoff appearance in 9 years and zero playoff wins in 9 years. Show me a stretch where Detroit packed their arena with that level of awfulness.
Hawks fans supported lousy Hawks teams. Just look at Late 70's and 80's teams. They were god awful especially the 80's teams. The Divisional playoff system saved them from embarrassment!

Wirtz's trading Roenick alienated alot of fans as well as his antics over the next few years. The reason fans left wasn't because of the on-ice product it was Bill Wirtz!

We still had competitive teams the few year after Roenick trade!

Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:14 PM
  #60
JWells16
Registered User
 
JWells16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,399
vCash: 500
They're a spitting image of the Detroit Lions... hopefully they'll come to their senses and fire their GM as well.

JWells16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:14 PM
  #61
Harrison Ford
Registered User
 
Harrison Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 19,975
vCash: 500
I feel so bad for thrashers fans. I couldnt even watch the game without a frown.

Harrison Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:16 PM
  #62
Harrison Ford
Registered User
 
Harrison Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 19,975
vCash: 500
I hope for Atlanta's sake they can land Tavares or Hedman. If any team needs either one of those badly, its them.

Harrison Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:16 PM
  #63
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 101,886
vCash: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
Fine, so how is Writz "not caring" any different from a group of owners in Atlanta who have suing each other for the entire period since the lockout? Either way you slice it "not caring" = sucky hockey product = sucky fan support. If you want to argue that ownership causes bad hockey teams fine. We have to problem too.
Wirtz didn't just not care! He did everything in his power to alienate fans. No Home games on TV, Raised ticket prices but didn't spend any of the money, Banished Hull's and etc from Hawks history and organization, Continued his vendetta against Bobby Hull by not signing his son Brett! There are lots more things i could list. Anyone who was a Hockey fan for the past 15 yrs knows why Hawks fans were driven away!

I would actually say the final 2 nails in the coffin was Wirtz trading Chelios to the Wings and Refusing to sign Brett Hull because of Bobby Hull. Brett wanted to be a Hawk and instead Wirtz didn't want anything to do with him and signed a past his prime Doug Gilmour!

Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:17 PM
  #64
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 101,886
vCash: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison Ford View Post
I hope for Atlanta's sake they can land Tavares or Hedman. If any team needs either one of those badly, its them.
They have had enough high picks in there history to know that even if they got Tavares or Hedman that wouldn't change anything.

They need real owners and to fire there GM!

Blackhawkswincup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:18 PM
  #65
ArGarBarGar
Global Moderator
Defense Please
 
ArGarBarGar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 24,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWells16 View Post
They're a spitting image of the Detroit Lions... hopefully they'll come to their senses and fire their GM as well.
See I could honestly be content with the Lions moving out.

ArGarBarGar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:18 PM
  #66
timw33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,763
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison Ford View Post
I hope for Atlanta's sake they can land Tavares or Hedman. If any team needs either one of those badly, its them.
Thats before Tavares pulls a Lindros after being drafted?

timw33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:36 PM
  #67
Enstrom39
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
I didn't prove a positive with a negative but ok.

Your assertion that original six teams (and we aren't even talking about a few years after they were in the NHL) are comparable to a team that has been around 9 years and is arguably not getting any better or is getting much worse is ridiculous.
All teams are comparable in this respect. Other than Toronto and Montreal no market has strongly supported a poor hockey product over a ten year period.

You can't prove that Atlanta is a bad market until you see what happens when they have a team. If you only looked at Detroit or Chicago during the bad portions of their history you could just as easily come away with the impression that they are "bad markets" even though they were not-their fans simply refused to buy a bad product or refused to support an arrogant owner.

There is no logic to leaving the 8th largest media market in the USA until you see what it can do with a good team. Look at Dallas which is very comparable to Atlanta in size and the number of northern transplants. Look at Tampa. Winning breeds excitement and loyalty. Long periods of sucking do the opposite.

Enstrom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:41 PM
  #68
ArGarBarGar
Global Moderator
Defense Please
 
ArGarBarGar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 24,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
All teams are comparable in this respect. Other than Toronto and Montreal no market has strongly supported a poor hockey product over a ten year period.

You can't prove that Atlanta is a bad market until you see what happens when they have a team. If you only looked at Detroit or Chicago during the bad portions of their history you could just as easily come away with the impression that they are "bad markets" even though they were not-their fans simply refused to buy a bad product or refused to support an arrogant owner.

There is no logic to leaving the 8th largest media market in the USA until you see what it can do with a good team. Look at Dallas which is very comparable to Atlanta in size and the number of northern transplants. Look at Tampa. Winning breeds excitement and loyalty. Long periods of sucking do the opposite.
I never said Atlanta should be contracted but I stand by the fact that no original six team will be contracted due to the long history and value to the NHL for that, which is what makes the situations not comparable.

If you had just started out with Dallas or Anaheim that would be fine.

ArGarBarGar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:44 PM
  #69
Enstrom39
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Actually they have had 2!

O5-06
O6-07

Overtime loses count as basically a tie so they had 2 above .500 yrs
Zero playoff wins. One playoff appearance in a decade.
Yeah, amazing. People are lining up to support that.

Enstrom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:46 PM
  #70
Lux Aurumque*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Norway
Posts: 15,653
vCash: 500
Everyone should cut out the sympathy for Kovalchuk.

All Thrashers fans will remember Hossa's disgustingly horrible play for Atlanta last season. Floating, putting in no effort, and being, in general, totally useless.

That's Kovalchuk right now. Yes, he starts every season like this, but c'mon. His team needs him, and he hasn't been there. He should be the team's best player, but instead, that title goes to Todd White...

That's really pathetic.

Lux Aurumque* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:52 PM
  #71
octopi
Registered User
 
octopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30,731
vCash: 703
Ah yes, the Thrashers, the real reason Kovalchuk was crying at the world championships.

octopi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:56 PM
  #72
Norm MacDonald
Registered User
 
Norm MacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,274
vCash: 500
I just sent a long, detailed email to Atlanta Spirit on why they should fire Waddell. They probably won't read it, but I still felt like I needed to.

I'm a Flyers fan, but I live in Atlanta and having a team that bad is insulting. I go to the games, so I expect them to do something with my money.

Norm MacDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:57 PM
  #73
Gil Gunderson
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi View Post
Ah yes, the Thrashers, the real reason Kovalchuk was crying at the world championships.
He's probably still day dreaming about that team when he's on the Thrashers bench.

Gil Gunderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2008, 11:58 PM
  #74
Enstrom39
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hawks fans supported lousy Hawks teams. Just look at Late 70's and 80's teams. They were god awful especially the 80's teams. The Divisional playoff system saved them from embarrassment!

Wirtz's trading Roenick alienated a lot of fans as well as his antics over the next few years. The reason fans left wasn't because of the on-ice product it was Bill Wirtz!

We still had competitive teams the few year after Roenick trade!
Here are the Hawks attendance numbers compared to the NHL average. They had one playoff team after Roenick was traded.

Hawks attendance fell below the NHL average after 2 non-playoff years and 3 years after Roenick's departure. I don't see much evidence here of supporting the franchise in spite of not winning.

It sure looks to me like there is a relationship between being a playoff team and attendance in the Chicago market. I could do the same with the Detroit but we all know it would show the same thing. The Wings started being competitive and people bought tickets. When the Wings stank people stayed away.

93-94 +3,023
94-95 +6,021
95-96 +4,405
96-97 +2,849 (Jeremy Roenick Traded before season)
97-98 +2,161 Out of Playoffs
98-99 +1,019 Out of Playoffs
99-00 -0,085 Out of Playoffs
00-01 -1,552 Out of Playoffs
01-02 -0,917
02-03 -1,796 Out of Playoffs
03-04 -3,281 Out of Playoffs
lockout
05-06 -3,637 Out of Playoffs
06-07 -3,759 Out of Playoffs
07-08 -0,495 Out of Playoffs

Enstrom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-29-2008, 12:01 AM
  #75
octopi
Registered User
 
octopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30,731
vCash: 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodwan553 View Post
He's probably still day dreaming about that team when he's on the Thrashers bench.
Kovalchuk:"I'm playing for a great team! With other people who can pass and shoot, and even score on a regular basis!"
Coach:"Ilya, come back to reality"
Kovalchuk :"Noooooo"

octopi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:52 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.