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Atlanta: What a disaster

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Old
10-29-2008, 01:11 PM
  #101
Jonas1235
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Last time I checked the Penguins were playing to 9,000 a game before the lockout. Then they finally drafted quality, if not Hall-of-Fame talent, thus why they went to the Finals last year. What has Atlanta drafted in their history? Kovalchuck, Lehtonen and _______. Nobody.

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10-29-2008, 01:14 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
Im going to jump in here and say most US cities wont support a bad hockey team.....

In the states, save for a very few exceptions, teams will only do well at the gate when they are doing well on the ice. If the Thrashers were a top flight team the building would reflect that
I don't think you guys know what I was talking about.

I never said Detroit always gets good attendance when they suck. I am saying they won't be moved regardless of fan support or ownership because they are an original six team and have a long history of hockey.

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10-29-2008, 01:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Last time I checked the Penguins were playing to 9,000 a game before the lockout. Then they finally drafted quality, if not Hall-of-Fame talent, thus why they went to the Finals last year. What has Atlanta drafted in their history? Kovalchuck, Lehtonen and _______. Nobody.
Not sure what your point is?

Yes the Penguins were lucky that there were 3 generational talents when they had the 1st and 2nd overall picks in back to back years allowing them to get 2 of them. THat's a "Perfect Storm" of luck, and blaming ATL for not being as lucky is ludicrous.

I agree that ATL's GM has been marginal for a long time, and the fans deserve better, but to pull out the "contraction" card based on one brutal game is just ignorant. They definetely have made several short-sighted moves to improve the team for a play-off run 2-3 years ago, but they're not the only team to do that. The real issue is that over their short history they've been really bad at drafting and developing talent.

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10-29-2008, 01:44 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
I don't think you guys know what I was talking about.

I never said Detroit always gets good attendance when they suck. I am saying they won't be moved regardless of fan support or ownership because they are an original six team and have a long history of hockey.
and I never said Detroit might/could re-locate if they stunk...im not sure if anyone said that

I think the point is, poor on ice product makes for poor attendance...regardless (for the most part) of what city.

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10-29-2008, 01:46 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
I don't think you guys know what I was talking about.

I never said Detroit always gets good attendance when they suck. I am saying they won't be moved regardless of fan support or ownership because they are an original six team and have a long history of hockey.
I think what is not being stated (and the real focus of your point) is that areas with a history of the sport are better markets than trying to grow a new market "from scratch". That means that having a bad team is less impactful in a "mature" market than trying to grow a new market in a non-traditional area, so there would be no benefit to moving a team.

Most of the past franchise moves were due to there being an untapped market with a greater population/corporate base that would theoritacally be better able to support a NHL franchise than a small market like Hartford, Winnepeg or QC. The theory turns into reality if the franchise is able to put a quality product on the ice and develop a fanbase - with Colorado and Dallas being the 2 best examples.

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10-29-2008, 02:14 PM
  #106
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Toronto Thrashers has a nice ring to it . . . .

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10-29-2008, 02:22 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Last time I checked the Penguins were playing to 9,000 a game before the lockout. Then they finally drafted quality, if not Hall-of-Fame talent, thus why they went to the Finals last year. What has Atlanta drafted in their history? Kovalchuck, Lehtonen and _______. Nobody.
That blank/nobody was named Heatley, and he turned into Hossa.

Honestly, you gotta feel for the Thrashers, and so many other young teams. But you also gotta give 'em a chance. The GM is terrible, ownership situation is terrible. What I've always hated from these teams that finish at the bottom of the standings is that they get high picks, but high picks in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds too. Where are those players??

THAT differentiates the champs for the constant rebuilds. It's hard to miss with a top 10 pick (not impossible) but you gotta make the other picks count. Invest in your scouting and player development dammit!

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10-29-2008, 02:26 PM
  #108
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1st time I saw the Thrashers play a full game. Kovy is such an amazing talent, I mean, could be top 5 in NHL on another team.

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10-30-2008, 10:27 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
The management has been horrible, but Atlanta as a city is notorious for poor support, even with successful teams. Look at the Hawks, Braves, and Falcons. They've all had periods of good attendance and periods of good play. But sustained attendance is not a strong point. The Atlanta Braves had one of the better runs in all of sports recently. But even they had trouble selling out big games in the later years.

Yes. Atlanta is considered by many to have the worst sports fans in the US. Miami a close second.

Anyway if they aren't relocated hopefully they will be contracted. Along with Phoenix.

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10-30-2008, 10:33 PM
  #110
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Anyway if they aren't relocated hopefully they will be contracted. Along with Phoenix.
And your team.

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10-30-2008, 10:55 PM
  #111
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i always really wanted atlanta to do well

heatley....kovalchuk.....they have/had stars that could really make a game exciting

heck, i was pumped for Lehtonen!

but.....its so depressing to follow that team.

i cant wait till Kovy is out of there. Same how I couldn't wait for Zherdev to get out of the running joke that is Colombus

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Old
10-30-2008, 11:51 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Yes. Atlanta is considered by many to have the worst sports fans in the US. Miami a close second.

Anyway if they aren't relocated hopefully they will be contracted. Along with Phoenix.
You're going to be hoping for a looooooong time.

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Old
10-30-2008, 11:59 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
They have had enough high picks in there history to know that even if they got Tavares or Hedman that wouldn't change anything.

They need real owners and to fire there GM!
Nothing more need be said to sum up this miserable franchise. I'm a native Atlantan, been loving hockey since there was an Atlanta Flames. Attended games all over North America..... I FREAKIN LOVE THIS SPORT!!!!!
These bungholes are beating the love and enjoyment completely the hell out of me!!!! Do you have any idea just what Thrashfans have had to endure here w/ this cluster**** organization?????

I do appreciate the kind sympathy, and understanding displayed by fellow fans in N. America, and all ships at sea. Instead of the usual dumbass comments about the region Etc.

We're hanging on because of our love of the game.


:thrashers

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Old
10-31-2008, 12:25 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
The management has been horrible, but Atlanta as a city is notorious for poor support, even with successful teams. Look at the Hawks, Braves, and Falcons. They've all had periods of good attendance and periods of good play. But sustained attendance is not a strong point. The Atlanta Braves had one of the better runs in all of sports recently. But even they had trouble selling out big games in the later years.

Complete nonsense..... if you knew what you were talking about... you wouldn't.
Problems w/ the Thrash are self-apparent to anyone here.

The Bravos underperformed for almost 13 years w/ the same Mgr.
Division titles are not what we're looking for. Hell, look it up for yourself wiseass. What was the result year in and out? Underachievers w/ the same problems every year.

The Falcons marquis guy WENT TO PRISON!!! get it? Like Crosby or Iginla, take your pick! and this was after years of absolute incompetence. AND, the relocation TO A DOME!!!!! those of you familiar w/ our weather will appreciate just how STOOPID that is!

You know nothing of the last 25 yrs. of Hawks mismanagement, and I 'm not inclined to give you an education on the matter.

You barf out what you hear on TV or have read elsewhere regardless of accuracy. Not to worry though, your not alone. That doesn't make you any less ignorant however. Just an azz for repeating it.
Before you reply, consider this...... this is not my opinion.
IT'S THE FACTS!!! don't even begin to try an lecture or contradict me on these points. I WAS THERE... IN PERSON AND UP CLOSE!!!
I'VE SUFFERED THRU IT ALL!!!


:thrashers

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Old
10-31-2008, 12:46 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Yes. Atlanta is considered by many to have the worst sports fans in the US. Miami a close second.

Anyway if they aren't relocated hopefully they will be contracted. Along with Phoenix.
See above....
Having family in Miami for the last 25 yrs. I'm quite familiar w/ that situation as well.
Try this on for size... Wayne Huizinga(Marlins Owner) completely dismantled the team the very same Winter after they won the Series.
He did this after failing to extort a new stadium from the City/County-Taxpayers. Gutted the team!
Hasn't been the same since.
Think about it. Just how in the hell do you not attract the EXTREMELY LARGE Latino/Cubano pop. there to a sport that's almost equal to Futbol in popularity in those countries??????

ABUSE AND DISRESPECT! Same as anywhere else.
Here endeth the lesson.


Last edited by lordstan57*: 10-31-2008 at 01:08 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old
10-31-2008, 12:50 AM
  #116
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Although I'm also astounded by Waddell's longevity, I don't think the franchise is that far away from a winning season anymore.

First of all, Bogosian and Enstrom are two great pieces to build the defence around, and they're adequately supported by Hainsey and Havelid. Exelby is a decent third pairing defenceman while Valabik and Oystrick provide depth. Schneider will be a great asset to move at the deadline.

Second, the Thrashers have an enviable situation in goal where Pavelec will force the team to chose between him and the talented but injury-prone Lehtonen. Meanwhile Hedberg provides a cheap and reliable veteran presence.

Third, the situation may seem bleak up front however the important pieces are there: Kovalchuk is obviously the franchise player, Little is looking to become a decent 1st line centre or at worst a good 2nd line centre, and Armstrong is a great energy/checking forward that can also play on the top two lines. White and Perrin give decent depth down the middle and Esposito and Holzapfel are legitimate prospects. Offence is probably the easiest position to upgrade quickly for anyone not based in Vancouver.
I'd look for Kozlov, Williams and possibly Christensen to become trade bait near the deadline.

Add to this bunch a very probable top 3 pick in this year's draft and whatever they get from trading Schneider, Kozlov, Williams one of Lehtonen or Pavelec and suddenly this could be a good team. The big pieces are already in place (#1 goaltender, top 4 defence, franchise forward, top centre, heart and soul player).

Of course, I assume Waddell doesn't **** up the trade deadline deals...


Last edited by Ismellofhockey: 10-31-2008 at 12:56 AM.
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10-31-2008, 01:04 AM
  #117
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The key point being... faith in Waddell to not screw it up.
I no longer have faith in the man to accomplish BIG changes.

Sorry.... and I'd like nothing better than to be proven wrong on this account.

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10-31-2008, 01:38 AM
  #118
Brent Burns
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Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
Although I'm also astounded by Waddell's longevity, I don't think the franchise is that far away from a winning season anymore.

First of all, Bogosian and Enstrom are two great pieces to build the defence around, and they're adequately supported by Hainsey and Havelid. Exelby is a decent third pairing defenceman while Valabik and Oystrick provide depth. Schneider will be a great asset to move at the deadline.

Second, the Thrashers have an enviable situation in goal where Pavelec will force the team to chose between him and the talented but injury-prone Lehtonen. Meanwhile Hedberg provides a cheap and reliable veteran presence.

Third, the situation may seem bleak up front however the important pieces are there: Kovalchuk is obviously the franchise player, Little is looking to become a decent 1st line centre or at worst a good 2nd line centre, and Armstrong is a great energy/checking forward that can also play on the top two lines. White and Perrin give decent depth down the middle and Esposito and Holzapfel are legitimate prospects. Offence is probably the easiest position to upgrade quickly for anyone not based in Vancouver.
I'd look for Kozlov, Williams and possibly Christensen to become trade bait near the deadline.

Add to this bunch a very probable top 3 pick in this year's draft and whatever they get from trading Schneider, Kozlov, Williams one of Lehtonen or Pavelec and suddenly this could be a good team. The big pieces are already in place (#1 goaltender, top 4 defence, franchise forward, top centre, heart and soul player).

Of course, I assume Waddell doesn't **** up the trade deadline deals...
No, as far as forwards go, the important people are NOT there. Granted I only saw a game, but using the judgement of others plus what I saw, their whole offense is Kovy. I've seen Armstrong play, he's a decent 2nd pairing guy but definitely not 1st. Little, for all I'd heard of him, again seemed like a 2nd line center. They definitely need another couple big names/performers as forwards.

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10-31-2008, 02:02 PM
  #119
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Bettman will hand them Tavares or Hedman to keep them afloat.
Not if the Kings have anything to say about it!

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10-31-2008, 10:08 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Bettman will hand them Tavares or Hedman to keep them afloat.
Sounds like sarcasm? Do they not deserve it?

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10-31-2008, 11:38 PM
  #121
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Couldn't the same thing be said of the Islanders they have had an absolutely horrible gm in Mike Milbury possible worst ever.

Roberto Luongo & Ollie Jokinen for Mark Parrish & Oleg Kvasha, then passing on taking Dany Heatley or Marion Gaborik and instead drafting Rick DiPietro at # 1 knowing he would have been there at # 5.

Zdeno Chara & the draft pick that would have been #2 and probably Jason Spezza for Alexi Yashin. Then signing Yashin to a 10 Year contract, that had to be bought out by the Islanders because Yashin's production was so poor.

Trading Todd Bertuzzi & Bryan McCabe for an old, slow Trevor Linden

Taking Robert Nilsson over Zach Parise in the 2003 Entry Draft.

Trading Raffi Torres for Janne Niniimaa

Letting Martin Straka go on waivers rather than signing him for 40K

Trading JP Dumont to the Chicago Blackhawks for Dimitri Nabokov. Nabakov played all of 30 games for Islanders amassing 4 goals & 11 assists.

What a team that could of been.

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10-31-2008, 11:42 PM
  #122
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Couldn't the same thing be said of the Islanders they have had an absolutely horrible gm in Mike Milbury possible worst ever.

Roberto Luongo & Ollie Jokinen for Mark Parrish & Oleg Kvasha, then passing on taking Dany Heatley or Marion Gaborik and instead drafting Rick DiPietro at # 1 knowing he would have been there at # 5.

Zdeno Chara & the draft pick that would have been #2 and probably Jason Spezza for Alexi Yashin. Then signing Yashin to a 10 Year contract, that had to be bought out by the Islanders because Yashin's production was so poor.

Trading Todd Bertuzzi & Bryan McCabe for an old, slow Trevor Linden

Taking Robert Nilsson over Zach Parise in the 2003 Entry Draft.

Trading Raffi Torres for Janne Niniimaa

Letting Martin Straka go on waivers rather than signing him for 40K

Trading JP Dumont to the Chicago Blackhawks for Dimitri Nabokov. Nabakov played all of 30 games for Islanders amassing 4 goals & 11 assists.
I love every second of it

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Old
11-01-2008, 04:21 AM
  #123
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I love every second of it
I'm not so sure you'll sing the same tune when John Tavares/Hedman hit their stride with Okposo.

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Old
11-01-2008, 06:34 AM
  #124
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Couldn't the same thing be said of the Islanders they have had an absolutely horrible gm in Mike Milbury possible worst ever.

Roberto Luongo & Ollie Jokinen for Mark Parrish & Oleg Kvasha, then passing on taking Dany Heatley or Marion Gaborik and instead drafting Rick DiPietro at # 1 knowing he would have been there at # 5.

Zdeno Chara & the draft pick that would have been #2 and probably Jason Spezza for Alexi Yashin. Then signing Yashin to a 10 Year contract, that had to be bought out by the Islanders because Yashin's production was so poor.

Trading Todd Bertuzzi & Bryan McCabe for an old, slow Trevor Linden

Taking Robert Nilsson over Zach Parise in the 2003 Entry Draft.

Trading Raffi Torres for Janne Niniimaa

Letting Martin Straka go on waivers rather than signing him for 40K

Trading JP Dumont to the Chicago Blackhawks for Dimitri Nabokov. Nabakov played all of 30 games for Islanders amassing 4 goals & 11 assists.

What a team that could of been.
Passing Gaborik and Heatly to me is still one of the biggest mistakes made by a GM.

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Old
11-01-2008, 07:19 AM
  #125
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Passing Gaborik and Heatly to me is still one of the biggest mistakes made by a GM.
as well as losing spezza

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