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Kovalchuk, Gaborik, or Spezza?

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10-30-2008, 01:20 PM
  #101
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its gabby for me. Minny is more desperate to trade him than Atl is to unload Kovy. Gabby is almos considered the fastest player in the league and someone that can pot 50 goals if healthy. His speed is important because playing with what I believe in gomez to be the fastest skating playmaker in the league could be something special. Overall i like Kovlachuck better but realistically all those elite players wont be traded to us, but if i had to bank on one. Its gabby.

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10-30-2008, 01:23 PM
  #102
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I can't see any way that a trade is made where at least one of them would go ó and then you can start talking about the likes of AA, Dawes, etc.

I'm a huge Kovalchuk fan. But in order to get him it would require a huge overhaul in terms of giving up assets and clearing cap space for him. And when the roster has changed as much as you are proposing, it can't then say that he's the missing piece to a championship because you're not adding Kovalchuk to the same team.
The only reason that Atlanta would trade Kovy is that they don't believe he will resign with them. From zimbio.com, "Itís sad to see, but Atlanta is once again back in the rebuilding stages, and itís time to benefit from a Kovalchuk trade. Look for young players or multiple high draft picks coming back the other way in any deal involving Kovy." The fact that he will not be a free agent this year of course adds to his value but Atlanta will be looking to get something back for him. I think the Rangers have the pieces to get him, while sparing Staal Dubinsky or Girardi. The question is who will take Rosival and his contract for a first round pick. The good thing about Rosy's contract is that in the final three years its 4.33 mill per year. I think a deal with 2 firsts and Sanguinetti or Del Zotto and then one of Dawes or Callahan could do it. Would you be willing to part with that much? I would because it keeps the majority of the team together. Potter steps up and becomes and 3rd line dman, Fritsche solidifies a spot on the team.

With Girardi, Redden, Staal locked up for next year. Hopefully Mara will be resigned. I think we could afford to lose one of those dmen. Kovalchuk is one of the top 5 forwards in the game and is only 25! Anything minus trading Staal and Dubinsky should be done to try and get this guy.

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10-30-2008, 01:41 PM
  #103
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The only reason that Atlanta would trade Kovy is that they don't believe he will resign with them. From zimbio.com, "Itís sad to see, but Atlanta is once again back in the rebuilding stages, and itís time to benefit from a Kovalchuk trade. Look for young players or multiple high draft picks coming back the other way in any deal involving Kovy." The fact that he will not be a free agent this year of course adds to his value but Atlanta will be looking to get something back for him. I think the Rangers have the pieces to get him, while sparing Staal Dubinsky or Girardi. The question is who will take Rosival and his contract for a first round pick. The good thing about Rosy's contract is that in the final three years its 4.33 mill per year. I think a deal with 2 firsts and Sanguinetti or Del Zotto and then one of Dawes or Callahan could do it. Would you be willing to part with that much? I would because it keeps the majority of the team together. Potter steps up and becomes and 3rd line dman, Fritsche solidifies a spot on the team.

With Girardi, Redden, Staal locked up for next year. Hopefully Mara will be resigned. I think we could afford to lose one of those dmen. Kovalchuk is one of the top 5 forwards in the game and is only 25! Anything minus trading Staal and Dubinsky should be done to try and get this guy.
Im on board, Kovy is worth a few high picks and dawes or callahan. Lets make it happen.

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10-30-2008, 01:48 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Nyrvana View Post
The only reason that Atlanta would trade Kovy is that they don't believe he will resign with them. From zimbio.com, "Itís sad to see, but Atlanta is once again back in the rebuilding stages, and itís time to benefit from a Kovalchuk trade. Look for young players or multiple high draft picks coming back the other way in any deal involving Kovy." The fact that he will not be a free agent this year of course adds to his value but Atlanta will be looking to get something back for him. I think the Rangers have the pieces to get him, while sparing Staal Dubinsky or Girardi. The question is who will take Rosival and his contract for a first round pick. The good thing about Rosy's contract is that in the final three years its 4.33 mill per year. I think a deal with 2 firsts and Sanguinetti or Del Zotto and then one of Dawes or Callahan could do it. Would you be willing to part with that much? I would because it keeps the majority of the team together. Potter steps up and becomes and 3rd line dman, Fritsche solidifies a spot on the team.

With Girardi, Redden, Staal locked up for next year. Hopefully Mara will be resigned. I think we could afford to lose one of those dmen. Kovalchuk is one of the top 5 forwards in the game and is only 25! Anything minus trading Staal and Dubinsky should be done to try and get this guy.
OK, assuming you can get them to take 2 firsts, Sanguinetti/Del Zotto, Dawes/Callahan (and I think that's a big assumption - how do you sell that deal to your fans) thats half the problem.

Now how do you fit him in under the cap without completely overhauling the roster?

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10-30-2008, 01:49 PM
  #105
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Im on board, Kovy is worth a few high picks and dawes or callahan.
I'm not sure the Thrashers would feel the same.

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10-30-2008, 01:50 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
its gabby for me. Minny is more desperate to trade him than Atl is to unload Kovy. Gabby is almos considered the fastest player in the league and someone that can pot 50 goals if healthy. His speed is important because playing with what I believe in gomez to be the fastest skating playmaker in the league could be something special. Overall i like Kovlachuck better but realistically all those elite players wont be traded to us, but if i had to bank on one. Its gabby.
At risk of sounding like a broken record:

1) What are you giving them?

2) How do you fit him in under the cap?

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10-30-2008, 02:00 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
OK, assuming you can get them to take 2 firsts, Sanguinetti/Del Zotto, Dawes/Callahan (and I think that's a big assumption - how do you sell that deal to your fans) thats half the problem.

Now how do you fit him in under the cap without completely overhauling the roster?
Biggest problem I see is that the Rangers are going to need those young, inexpensive players to fill out a roster comprised of WAY too many high salary players. If anything, the Rangers should be trading FOR picks and prospects if they're going to be able to continue to field a deep, competitive team, not trading them away.

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10-30-2008, 02:09 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Biggest problem I see is that the Rangers are going to need those young, inexpensive players to fill out a roster comprised of WAY too many high salary players. If anything, the Rangers should be trading FOR picks and prospects if they're going to be able to continue to field a deep, competitive team, not trading them away.
Especially when guys like Dubinsky, Zherdev and Staal will be requiring new contracts (and raises).

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10-30-2008, 02:22 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Especially when guys like Dubinsky, Zherdev and Staal will be requiring new contracts (and raises).
Well, the fact that 7 million will be taken off the books next year just because of the way the contracts are set up. An example I already posted. Naslund 2 years 8 million - This year 5 million, next year 3 million. So thats 7 million to help sign those players. Hopefully, if the NHL does well, the cap will go up as well.

Trading Rosy will clear up not 5 million but 7 million for this year. According to NHL numbers his salary is set up as 7 mill, 4.33, 4.33, 4.33. Add that to getting rid of Prucha and Rissmiller and you have the cap room to do it.

The third point having the Atlanta fans not revolt if they traded Kovy. Granted there is no way to stop this because any time you trade elite players and don't get an elite player back there will be problems. However, they have to understand that one player will not win them the cup. Yes, its a good starting point but the market they're in they can't afford to sign a guy to 8 - 10 mill a year and add other players. They have a better chance getting young guys and hoping together they can mesh and win together. (ie. what the Tampa Bay Rays did this year.)

Here is a Atlanta blogwriter's opinion on why they should trade or shouldn't trade Kovy. http://thrasherstalons.blogspot.com/...uk-rumors.html

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10-30-2008, 02:24 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Biggest problem I see is that the Rangers are going to need those young, inexpensive players to fill out a roster comprised of WAY too many high salary players. If anything, the Rangers should be trading FOR picks and prospects if they're going to be able to continue to field a deep, competitive team, not trading them away.
Yep, in order to accomplish what some are suggesting you'd have to get rid of two big contracts - Roszival and Drury. Only then can you add another big contract plus enough money to sign Staal and Dubinsky. If you want to bring Zherdev back then again you will have to shed some contracts. Can't have it both ways We've committed big bucks to Gomez, Drury, Roszival, Redden and Lundqvist. To take on any more big contracts you've got to shed some of these. Heck just to resign Staal, Dubinsky and Zherdev this summer is going to require some salary cap magic. Unless we can move one or two big salaries in the trade its going to be tough as heck to bring on a Spezza, Kovalchuk or Gabby!


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10-30-2008, 02:33 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Nyrvana View Post
Well, the fact that 7 million will be taken off the books next year just because of the way the contracts are set up. An example I already posted. Naslund 2 years 8 million - This year 5 million, next year 3 million. So thats 7 million to help sign those players. Hopefully, if the NHL does well, the cap will go up as well.

Trading Rosy will clear up not 5 million but 7 million for this year. According to NHL numbers his salary is set up as 7 mill, 4.33, 4.33, 4.33. Add that to getting rid of Prucha and Rissmiller and you have the cap room to do it.

The third point having the Atlanta fans not revolt if they traded Kovy. Granted there is no way to stop this because any time you trade elite players and don't get an elite player back there will be problems. However, they have to understand that one player will not win them the cup. Yes, its a good starting point but the market they're in they can't afford to sign a guy to 8 - 10 mill a year and add other players. They have a better chance getting young guys and hoping together they can mesh and win together. (ie. what the Tampa Bay Rays did this year.)

Here is a Atlanta blogwriter's opinion on why they should trade or shouldn't trade Kovy. http://thrasherstalons.blogspot.com/...uk-rumors.html
I could be wrong, but aren't cap hits calculated by the average of the entire contract?

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10-30-2008, 02:36 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Nyrvana View Post
Well, the fact that 7 million will be taken off the books next year just because of the way the contracts are set up. An example I already posted. Naslund 2 years 8 million - This year 5 million, next year 3 million. So thats 7 million to help sign those players. Hopefully, if the NHL does well, the cap will go up as well.
At the end of the season the following are RFAs:
Callahan (575k)
Dawes (587k)
Dubinsky (633k)
Fritsche (875k)
Orr (537k)
Prucha (1.6M)
Sjostrom (840k)
Zherdev (2.5M)
Korpikoski (1M)

The following are UFAs:
Betts (615k)
Kalinin (2.1M)
Mara (1.95M)
Valliquette (750K)

How many of those are you prepared to lose? Who are you replacing them with? What kind of raises are the guys you keep going to get?

I understand that more than likely, you apply the money you are paying Naslund towards resigning Staal at the end of the 09-10 season.

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Trading Rosy will clear up not 5 million but 7 million for this year. According to NHL numbers his salary is set up as 7 mill, 4.33, 4.33, 4.33. Add that to getting rid of Prucha and Rissmiller and you have the cap room to do it.
No. His cap hit is 5M. How are you getting rid of Prucha and Rissmiller?

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The third point having the Atlanta fans not revolt if they traded Kovy. Granted there is no way to stop this because any time you trade elite players and don't get an elite player back there will be problems. However, they have to understand that one player will not win them the cup. Yes, its a good starting point but the market they're in they can't afford to sign a guy to 8 - 10 mill a year and add other players. They have a better chance getting young guys and hoping together they can mesh and win together. (ie. what the Tampa Bay Rays did this year.)
I understand that fans will never get another star player back for him. But that does not mean that fans will settle for picks/prospects they have never heard of who may or may not become anything. They will want young NHL players (and I'm not sure that Callahan or Dawes really fits that description yet).


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Here is a Atlanta blogwriter's opinion on why they should trade or shouldn't trade Kovy. http://thrasherstalons.blogspot.com/...uk-rumors.html

I understand why the Thrashers would be looking to tade Kovalchuk. I don't understand why they would trade him to the Rangers without getting one of Dubinsky or Staal back.

And they don't have to trade him to the Rangers.

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10-30-2008, 02:55 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
At the end of the season the following are RFAs:
Callahan (575k)
Dawes (587k)
Dubinsky (633k)

Fritsche (875k)
Orr (537k)
Prucha (1.6M)
Sjostrom (840k)
Zherdev (2.5M)
Korpikoski (1M)

The following are UFAs:
Betts (615k)
Kalinin (2.1M)
Mara (1.95M)
Valliquette (750K)


How many of those are you prepared to lose? Who are you replacing them with? What kind of raises are the guys you keep going to get?

I understand that more than likely, you apply the money you are paying Naslund towards resigning Staal at the end of the 09-10 season.



No. His cap hit is 5M. How are you getting rid of Prucha and Rissmiller?



I understand that fans will never get another star player back for him. But that does not mean that fans will settle for picks/prospects they have never heard of who may or may not become anything. They will want young NHL players (and I'm not sure that Callahan or Dawes really fits that description yet).





I understand why the Thrashers would be looking to tade Kovalchuk. I don't understand why they would trade him to the Rangers without getting one of Dubinsky or Staal back.

And they don't have to trade him to the Rangers.
the players in bold are the one i think the rangers shoul resign.....if rozsival is traded then i would look into resigning kalinin as well however the only ones in that group who will be seeing large increases in pay are dubi, zherdev and possibly mara

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10-30-2008, 04:18 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
At the end of the season the following are RFAs:
Callahan (575k)
Dawes (587k)
Dubinsky (633k)
Fritsche (875k)
Orr (537k)
Prucha (1.6M)
Sjostrom (840k)
Zherdev (2.5M)
Korpikoski (1M)

The following are UFAs:
Betts (615k)
Kalinin (2.1M)
Mara (1.95M)
Valliquette (750K)

How many of those are you prepared to lose? Who are you replacing them with? What kind of raises are the guys you keep going to get?
I would sign Cally, Dubinsky, Mara, Valiquette, Betts, Zherdev, Dawes, and Sjostrom. The only two that will get a significant raise are Zherdev and Dubinsky.

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I understand that more than likely, you apply the money you are paying Naslund towards resigning Staal at the end of the 09-10 season.

No. His cap hit is 5M. How are you getting rid of Prucha and Rissmiller?
You're right my apologies on Roszival. Well Rissmiller and Prucha can be traded/waived/sent to hartford. I think a team with some cap room will trade a pick for them. Hollweg got a 5th rounder.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I understand that fans will never get another star player back for him. But that does not mean that fans will settle for picks/prospects they have never heard of who may or may not become anything. They will want young NHL players (and I'm not sure that Callahan or Dawes really fits that description yet).
The last time I checked fans don't make the decisions. I understand that fans don't go to the games already, so they don't want to alienate them any more. But, if its the best thing for the franchise and thats the best thing they could get for him than thats their job to explain that to the fans. I you look at the deal that was made for Marian Hossa - Forwards Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, as well as prospect Angelo Esposito and a first-round pick in the June draft - thats the basis of a deal I would expect. Obviously it would have to be more than that with an extra year and a younger player. I don't think thats over the top though.




I understand why the Thrashers would be looking to tade Kovalchuk. I don't understand why they would trade him to the Rangers without getting one of Dubinsky or Staal back.

And they don't have to trade him to the Rangers. [/QUOTE]

Because maybe thats the best offer they can get? Every team wants Kovalchuk but not every team has a need or can afford him. The Rangers only have to best the offer of the teams that can afford him. They don't have to trade him at all.

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10-30-2008, 04:21 PM
  #115
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The last time I checked fans don't make the decisions. I understand that fans don't go to the games already, so they don't want to alienate them any more. But, if its the best thing for the franchise and thats the best thing they could get for him than thats their job to explain that to the fans. I you look at the deal that was made for Marian Hossa - Forwards Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, as well as prospect Angelo Esposito and a first-round pick in the June draft - thats the basis of a deal I would expect. Obviously it would have to be more than that with an extra year and a younger player. I don't think thats over the top though.


Because maybe thats the best offer they can get? Every team wants Kovalchuk but not every team has a need or can afford him. The Rangers only have to best the offer of the teams that can afford him. They don't have to trade him at all.
1) Marian Hossa was a deadline deal.

2) Marian Hossa was not the face of the franchise.

3) Every team has a need for a Kovalchuk.

4) Most teams could beat an offer of Sanguinetti/Del Zotto, two firsts and Dawes/Callahan.

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I would sign Cally, Dubinsky, Mara, Valiquette, Betts, Zherdev, Dawes, and Sjostrom. The only two that will get a significant raise are Zherdev and Dubinsky.
So you're adding Kovalchuk, not really losing any salary by adding him. You are then going to rid yourself of Rozsival, Prucha and Rissmiller. Presumably you would have to bring up a defenseman from Hartford or via trade — thus adding salary. Then you want to give big raises to Zherdev and Dubinsky. And resign Cally (traded for Kovalchuk?), Mara, Valiquette, Betts, Dawes (traded for Kovlachuk?), and Sjostrom — still giving them raises? It seems that all your doing is adding salary. How does that work?

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10-30-2008, 04:44 PM
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1) Marian Hossa was a deadline deal. - i assume this will be one as well

2) Marian Hossa was not the face of the franchise. -true but if gretzky was traded any one can be traded

3) Every team has a need for a Kovalchuk. - yes but as i said, not all can afford him

4) Most teams could beat an offer of Sanguinetti/Del Zotto, two firsts and Dawes/Callahan. - well we will come to that when it happens. Like I said, its not like we are going to having to outduel every team in the nhl. It comes down to about 3 or 4 teams.



So you're adding Kovalchuk, not really losing any salary by adding him. You are then going to rid yourself of Rozsival, Prucha and Rissmiller. Presumably you would have to bring up a defenseman from Hartford or via trade — thus adding salary. Then you want to give big raises to Zherdev and Dubinsky. And resign Cally (traded for Kovalchuk?), Mara, Valiquette, Betts, Dawes (traded for Kovlachuk?), and Sjostrom — still giving them raises? It seems that all your doing is adding salary. How does that work?
Well Prucha, Rozsival, and Rissmiller is about 7.6 million off the books. Perfect for Kovalchuk. Adding potter is 535 k. Zherdev - depending on the contract and how he does this year would probably get 4 million and Dubinsky around 3.5. The rest are getting small increasing like 250 k. With the increase in the cap, that will give us more money. The problem shouldn't neccessarily be about next year because that can be figured out next year.

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10-30-2008, 04:49 PM
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When are people going to realize quality > quantity. Sure, Atlanta knows they need a rebuild and that starts with trading away Kovy for youth. But you assume they will accept a trade of picks, prospects and our third liners. There are 28 other NHL teams that will probably have much more to offer than we do or are willing to. Why would they trade with us when there are other teams that will probably be willing to offer their "Dubi's" or "Staal's" along with picks and prospects, instead or our "Callahan's" and "Dawes'"?

If we want Kovy, we have to pay for it, not just in terms of salary cap.

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10-30-2008, 04:57 PM
  #118
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When are people going to realize quality > quantity. Sure, Atlanta knows they need a rebuild and that starts with trading away Kovy for youth. But you assume they will accept a trade of picks, prospects and our third liners. There are 28 other NHL teams that will probably have much more to offer than we do or are willing to. Why would they trade with us when there are other teams that will probably be willing to offer their "Dubi's" or "Staal's" along with picks and prospects, instead or our "Callahan's" and "Dawes'"?

If we want Kovy, we have to pay for it, not just in terms of salary cap.
Explain how the Tampa Bay Rays got to the world series this year? Clearly they spent a lot of time on the draft. They made trades for younger developing players and draft picks and used them to create a young team. Are they going to be able to hold on to all of those players? Probably not in 2 years the Yankees will attempt to buy them all. Sometimes quantity is better than quality. When you have NOTHING and Atlanta certainly doesn't have anything, then you need more good players. One Elite player isn't going to help a team win.

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10-30-2008, 05:01 PM
  #119
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Explain how the Tampa Bay Rays got to the world series this year? Clearly they spent a lot of time on the draft. They made trades for younger developing players and draft picks and used them to create a young team. Are they going to be able to hold on to all of those players? Probably not in 2 years the Yankees will attempt to buy them all. Sometimes quantity is better than quality. When you have NOTHING and Atlanta certainly doesn't have anything, then you need more good players. One Elite player isn't going to help a team win.
I understand that, but there are other teams besides us that will probably offer much greater assets than just picks, prospects and third liners.

If we can land Kovy for that, I'm all for it, but I highly doubt that will be enough unless they wait until the trade deadline next year.

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10-30-2008, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by qwertyaas View Post
I understand that, but there are other teams besides us that will probably offer much greater assets than just picks, prospects and third liners.

If we can land Kovy for that, I'm all for it, but I highly doubt that will be enough unless they wait until the trade deadline next year.
Agreed but other teams can't afford Kovalchuk. We are not going to be bidding against the 28 other teams. Probably like 3 or 4. Teams that will go after him will be able to pay him and need him for the next year and a half. Stanley cup contenders. It doesn't make sense for teams that aren't going to win to trade for him.

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10-30-2008, 05:16 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Nyrvana View Post
Well Prucha, Rozsival, and Rissmiller is about 7.6 million off the books. Perfect for Kovalchuk. Adding potter is 535 k. Zherdev - depending on the contract and how he does this year would probably get 4 million and Dubinsky around 3.5. The rest are getting small increasing like 250 k. With the increase in the cap, that will give us more money. The problem shouldn't neccessarily be about next year because that can be figured out next year.
So all you do is add salary.

By your own number:

Rozsival, Prucha and Rissmiller = Kovalchuk and Potter.

Then you want to add salary by giving big raises to Dubinsky and Zherdev - adding by your numbers another 7.5M. Assuming you could you would only have to give Cally, Mara, Valiquette, Betts, Dawes, and Sjostrom raises of 250k (which is no lock) you would then add another 6,817,00 in salary. And that's without resigning Korpikoski, Orr and Fritsche

Add to that salary next year that is owed to Drury, Girardi, Gomez, Lundqvist, Naslund, Redden, Staal, and Voros which is 35,158,810. And that is without resigning Kalinin.

So that is:

35,158,810 in players locked up for next season.
7,500,000 for Dubinsky and Zherdev and their big increases.
6,817,000 for Cally , Mara, Valiquette, Betts, Dawes, and Sjostrom assuming raises of 250k each.

For a total of:

49,475,810

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10-30-2008, 05:29 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
So all you do is add salary.

By your own number:

Rozsival, Prucha and Rissmiller = Kovalchuk and Potter.

Then you want to add salary by giving big raises to Dubinsky and Zherdev - adding by your numbers another 7.5M. Assuming you could you would only have to give Cally, Mara, Valiquette, Betts, Dawes, and Sjostrom raises of 250k (which is no lock) you would then add another 6,817,00 in salary. And that's without resigning Korpikoski, Orr and Fritsche

Add to that salary next year that is owed to Drury, Girardi, Gomez, Lundqvist, Naslund, Redden, Staal, and Voros which is 35,158,810. And that is without resigning Kalinin.

So that is:

35,158,810 in players locked up for next season.
7,500,000 for Dubinsky and Zherdev and their big increases.
6,817,000 for Cally , Mara, Valiquette, Betts, Dawes, and Sjostrom assuming raises of 250k each.

For a total of:

49,475,810
The cap right now is 56,700,000 and according to zipay could go up by a million or more. http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/ho...ap_issues.html . So say about 57,700,000. Thats 7.5 million to sign the remaining players. Plus these players could all be traded. Zipay also mentions that if we get kovalchuk that could mean goodbye to Zherdev. Sather will find a way to put together a team underneath the salary cap. As Zipay says, we have the talent at the younger levels to bring up cheaper options.

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10-30-2008, 06:41 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Nyrvana View Post
Agreed but other teams can't afford Kovalchuk. We are not going to be bidding against the 28 other teams. Probably like 3 or 4. Teams that will go after him will be able to pay him and need him for the next year and a half. Stanley cup contenders. It doesn't make sense for teams that aren't going to win to trade for him.

That's true, but I don't think we can be one of those 3 or 4 teams. Our cap hit is high enough already, and I don't think we have/are willing to give away the guys that other teams have.

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