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Old
10-27-2008, 07:57 PM
  #1
Snoil11
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Greg Nemisz

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Originally Posted by serratedmuffin View Post
Definitely agree with above poster, I was positive the flames were going to go the swedish connection and try to nab 2 possible first line swedes. I dont think they were too keen on Nemisz to begin with who has only put up 16 points in 15 games playing on a stacked team in the OHL which is pretty easy to score in.
He is still number 14 in the league and number 5 on the team, trailing Mitchell only by one point. The other two are Ryan Ellis (different position) and Taylor Hall, who is the undisputed early favourite for #1 in 2010.
Thus said, playing on a stacked team does not necessarily translate into great numbers, since playing time decreases, as the coach does not have to ride his best players 30 minutes a night (Chris De Piero says hello).

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10-28-2008, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoil11 View Post
He is still number 14 in the league and number 5 on the team, trailing Mitchell only by one point. The other two are Ryan Ellis (different position) and Taylor Hall, who is the undisputed early favourite for #1 in 2010.
Thus said, playing on a stacked team does not necessarily translate into great numbers, since playing time decreases, as the coach does not have to ride his best players 30 minutes a night (Chris De Piero says hello).
Stacked team or not, first round draft picks should dominate as 19 year olds if they plan on being in the nhl. Maybe he'll be a late bloomer, power forwards usually take longer to develop. I guess I expected more from him this year.

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10-28-2008, 09:10 PM
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And how can you tell, that he does not dominate? Have you seen him play? I mean, there is more than scoring (especially as a power forward), that makes one a dominant player.
And as I mentioned, he is #14 in league scoring, so he puts up reasonable numbers, and trailing Taylor Hall in team scoring won't look as bad in a year or two, when the Tavares hype is over and people recognize, that Hall might be the real next big thing.


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10-29-2008, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoil11 View Post
He is still number 14 in the league and number 5 on the team, trailing Mitchell only by one point. The other two are Ryan Ellis (different position) and Taylor Hall, who is the undisputed early favourite for #1 in 2010.
Thus said, playing on a stacked team does not necessarily translate into great numbers, since playing time decreases, as the coach does not have to ride his best players 30 minutes a night (Chris De Piero says hello).

I dunno. When we have to make up excuses and tell ourselves things to make us feel better about our prospects it doesn't bode well.

We've said stuff like this about Kris Chucko, Rico Fata, all the bust players we've had in the past. If a guy has many reasons why he isnt improving then hes like not going to make the jump to the NHL. You need to improve, its pretty simple - and so far Nemisz is not. Early signs of a poor pick but yes, give it 5 years before casting judgment I just dont have confidence.

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10-29-2008, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb0la11 View Post
You need to improve, its pretty simple - and so far Nemisz is not. Early signs of a poor pick but yes, give it 5 years before casting judgment I just dont have confidence.
How can you tell, that he hasn't improved? Only by looking at his numbers? IIRC, one of his flaws heading into the draft was his skating. How can you judge his skatings by the numbers? How can you judge his defensive awareness? How can you judge his backchecking skills? How can you judge his PK-skills? His physical game? How can you judge, whether he polished his overall game or not?

Numbers do not always tell the story!

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10-29-2008, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb0la11 View Post
I dunno. When we have to make up excuses and tell ourselves things to make us feel better about our prospects it doesn't bode well.

We've said stuff like this about Kris Chucko, Rico Fata, all the bust players we've had in the past. If a guy has many reasons why he isnt improving then hes like not going to make the jump to the NHL. You need to improve, its pretty simple - and so far Nemisz is not. Early signs of a poor pick but yes, give it 5 years before casting judgment I just dont have confidence.
How many games have you seen? How do you know he is not improving?

Also might be a bit premature to have Chucko as a bust no?

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10-29-2008, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamesfan12 View Post
How many games have you seen? How do you know he is not improving?

Also might be a bit premature to have Chucko as a bust no?
To grant him the benefit of the doubt, it might be a tad premature to label him a bust, but the clock is ticking. If he doesn't step up this year and assert himself in the AHL, then his ceiling is fringe NHLer.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2004

Half the top 10 picks are NHL regulars. The top 4 are stars, as expected. The later f1st rounders haven't panned out yet, but Wolski & Meszaros were selected at #21 & 23, respectively. Washington was able to locate two d-men, who are currently on their roster, Jeff Shultz & Mike Green. Both had WHL experience.

Round 2 exemplifies why those picks are so easily dealt off.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2004/round2/

The Rangers managed to grab Dubinsky with their fourth pick in the round. Although some of that could be attributed to their handling on his development, it wouldn't be stretch to think that he would've been deserving of a 1st round selection instead.

This isn't to second guess, since it's already self-evident that Chucko was a wasted pick. Some redemption could come if Prust, Boyd and Pardy find decent enough roles, but the bet here is that 2004 will be regarded as a mediocre draft for the Flames, at most.

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10-29-2008, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob View Post
To grant him the benefit of the doubt, it might be a tad premature to label him a bust, but the clock is ticking. If he doesn't step up this year and assert himself in the AHL, then his ceiling is fringe NHLer.
Absolutely. I've said it numerous times during the offseason that this is a huge year for Chucko. He needs to have a good year and so far(I know the season is only 8 games in) he has stepped it up. From all reports I've read he has been much better and more confident. 8 points already and his all around game is improving. Needs to keep it up though. I just hate to see bust on him as he was always a project and a guy that would take time to develop.

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10-29-2008, 11:42 PM
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Nemisz has improved from last year without a doubt. He dosen't dominate though.

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10-31-2008, 05:09 AM
  #10
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they need an impact player with skill not farm team progress \fak they should have traded up to get tedenby or gone with ennis fak this lanky dude from the ohl. he will take for ever and ever to put that jersey on sutter sucks ass as gm stay on the bench!!!!!!!!!!

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10-31-2008, 05:41 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerflames View Post
they need an impact player with skill not farm team progress \fak they should have traded up to get tedenby or gone with ennis fak this lanky dude from the ohl. he will take for ever and ever to put that jersey on sutter sucks ass as gm stay on the bench!!!!!!!!!!
Don't forget about Mitch Wahl, he has skill. To be honest, I think Wahl will turn into the better player between him and Nemisz.

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10-31-2008, 01:00 PM
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Moved the discussion about Greg Nemisz from the 2009 draft thread to a new thread.

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11-01-2008, 12:30 PM
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It seems pretty common to me that big power forward types tend to mature a little later. I know the players are quite different but if you look at Bertuzzi's trajectory he played a full 2 years in junior after being drafted and was a depth player his first 3 years in the league.

I think Nemisz might take some patience to develop.

Chucko looks good this year as well, still think he could be a player, just was such a bad call to go the NCAA route for that type of physical forward.

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11-01-2008, 01:01 PM
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Hello Hugh Jessiman

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11-02-2008, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersEriksson View Post
Hello Hugh Jessiman
May you provide a link, that confirms his trade to the NCAA? Cause I was unable to find one.

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11-02-2008, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Snoil11 View Post
May you provide a link, that confirms his trade to the NCAA? Cause I was unable to find one.
Damn your sparkling wordplay!

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11-02-2008, 09:15 PM
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Sorry for this little inaccuracy, he obviously cannot be traded to the NCAA, but I am still looking for an article that confirms, that he will line up for a NCAA team in the future. Last time (about an hour ago) I checked his stats, he was still playing for the Spitfires (and posting two assists in today's game).

Moreover, the OHL lists him as a participant for both games of the CHL-Russia series in November.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/news/?sub=&id=5855

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11-03-2008, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
This isn't to second guess, since it's already self-evident that Chucko was a wasted pick. Some redemption could come if Prust, Boyd and Pardy find decent enough roles, but the bet here is that 2004 will be regarded as a mediocre draft for the Flames, at most.
Wow.

Just wow.

What the heck do you call a successful draft then?

We drafted what look to be three NHLers with our first four picks. Prust looks like a legitimate NHL player early in his career as he's making a significant impact on the fourth line by checking, fighting and scoring goals. He will likely get better too.

Pardy is still early but management thinks that he will be a serviceable 5th-6th defenceman. Something EVERY team needs.

Boyd is filling out and looks to have legitimate top-six potential and has almost played himself into a top-six role with just 10 games into the season.

And that draft was a disappointment? Give your head a shake.

Brutal.

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11-04-2008, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoil11 View Post
Sorry for this little inaccuracy, he obviously cannot be traded to the NCAA, but I am still looking for an article that confirms, that he will line up for a NCAA team in the future. Last time (about an hour ago) I checked his stats, he was still playing for the Spitfires (and posting two assists in today's game).

Moreover, the OHL lists him as a participant for both games of the CHL-Russia series in November.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/news/?sub=&id=5855
He compares more to Jessiman in terms of what he will amount to. Not that he'll play for the exact same teams all the time

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11-04-2008, 01:58 AM
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Nystrom was a checking forward in the NCAA for 4 years before finally moving up to AHL. Everyone had written off his chances of an NHL career. He may have been balding by the time he finally made the NHL but he made the team eventually. I see a similar future for Chucko, considering we drafted him out of the BCHL and he was an average forward at best for the Gophers we're pretty lucky that he's made it as far as he has. People put too much stock in draft position. Put Boyd as our 1st rounder in 04 or Wahl as our first rounder last year and no one would complain.

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11-04-2008, 09:04 AM
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I love how being a point per game player in junior isn't good enough anymore.

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11-04-2008, 10:47 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob View Post
To grant him the benefit of the doubt, it might be a tad premature to label him a bust, but the clock is ticking. If he doesn't step up this year and assert himself in the AHL, then his ceiling is fringe NHLer.
Laughable. The kid is 19.

Yup, let's write him off 5 months after drafting him, in the beginning of November.

I love how you know more about Nemisz's progression in development than the Flames organization does.

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11-04-2008, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
Laughable. The kid is 19.

Yup, let's write him off 5 months after drafting him, in the beginning of November.

I love how you know more about Nemisz's progression in development than the Flames organization does.
I believe he was talking about Chucko seeing as Nemisz is still playing junior.

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11-04-2008, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wags View Post
I believe he was talking about Chucko seeing as Nemisz is still playing junior.
My mistake.

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11-04-2008, 09:24 PM
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Snoil I like your positive attitude but its hard for me to justify any "power forward" as a legitimate project with some actual untapped potential unless the player has skill.

Quite simple, Nemisz isnt very skillful. I mean if we drafted this guy to stand in front of the net ala Tomas Holmstrom then its a wasted pick. You can't draft crap like that, thats a sixth sense to be a stud in that kind of position and is something that the player is just always good at. Keith Tkachuk, Tomas Vanek and Holmstrom come to mind as guys that were good in that role. Is there many more that have made a career off it? Not really.

I havent seen much of Nemisz in front of the net but I have seen him in several games on tv and in person at canada camps including u18 ones before his draft year. Not to mention rookie camps this year and the main camp as well.

I'll reassess continually and I'd easily change my opinion if he makes strides, and if so I'd gladly eat crow for being wrong all while praising the flames for the pick, but I dont really see much chance of that happening. We'll see I guess.

I definitely havent casted definitive judgement on Neisz yet but if you ask me we could have done better with the pick and I've been saying that since the moment Sutter announced it and Nemisz was still walking up to the stage to put on the Flames Reds...

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