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DET - PIT Trade

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Old
11-05-2008, 12:41 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by doctordark View Post
An injured leg and an illness are anything but the same. You can play through the pain of an injured leg with a high enough pain threshold (which Yzerman obviously had), but you can't find extra reserves of energy when you literally can't keep down food. That's absurd, unless you believe Malkin should somehow be able to change how the human body functions.
Micheal Jordan was taking IV fluids at halftime and couldn't keep water down in the NBA Finals he had the flu so bad, yet he still managed to play one of his best games ever and he still found that extra gear. The flu is the same as any other injury - an excuse. Players can play through it but it requires incredible willpower with few people possess. Fatigue and pain are the same on a psychological level and both can be exceeded. History is full of examples of people who endured past their physical limits dating back to the Greek/Persian war at the Battle of Marathon. It can be done if you have a strong enough desire and enough willpower. Just like any "ignore the pain" injury.

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Old
11-05-2008, 12:50 AM
  #102
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Malkin is locked up long term and has shown a great deal of talent in his first few yearw. To think he is still getting better and how great he would be at Datsyuk's age and experience is mind blowing. As a Pens fan - No. I like Kronwall but i'd rather deal Staal + some sort of package to land him instead of moving Malkin.

The only way Geno gets traded is if he says in his last year of his long term deal that he wants to test the market, then he's a deadline deal and another team has the rest of the season and the off-season before July 1st to sign him. Same goes for Sid. Only in a situation like that where it's pretty much a done deal that they want to test the market.

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11-05-2008, 12:53 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Micheal Jordan was taking IV fluids at halftime and couldn't keep water down in the NBA Finals he had the flu so bad, yet he still managed to play one of his best games ever and he still found that extra gear. The flu is the same as any other injury - an excuse. Players can play through it but it requires incredible willpower with few people possess. Fatigue and pain are the same on a psychological level and both can be exceeded. History is full of examples of people who endured past their physical limits dating back to the Greek/Persian war at the Battle of Marathon. It can be done if you have a strong enough desire and enough willpower. Just like any "ignore the pain" injury.
You're comparing being sick and playing basketball to being sick and playing hockey? Are you being 100% serious here?

Ever play a lot of minutes when sick? I played with the flu (i play defense) earlier in the year and since we only had 3 defensemen i basically played the entire game for our rec league. Not the NHL but even for non-pro's, playing with the flu is rough. My eyes freaking hurt when i was looking around on the ice.

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11-05-2008, 01:37 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
Far and away the best offer I have seen for Malkin, but I think both teams say no.
/thread

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11-05-2008, 01:58 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Claude Julien View Post
Don't know why the Wings would trade their best player, breaking up the Hossa-Holmstrom-Datsyuk line and their only defenseman who will still on the team in 4 years.
Chelios?!?

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11-05-2008, 09:19 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Micheal Jordan was taking IV fluids at halftime and couldn't keep water down in the NBA Finals he had the flu so bad, yet he still managed to play one of his best games ever and he still found that extra gear. The flu is the same as any other injury - an excuse. Players can play through it but it requires incredible willpower with few people possess. Fatigue and pain are the same on a psychological level and both can be exceeded. History is full of examples of people who endured past their physical limits dating back to the Greek/Persian war at the Battle of Marathon. It can be done if you have a strong enough desire and enough willpower. Just like any "ignore the pain" injury.
And isn't it telling that you had to reach to another, non-contact and less physically demanding sport, and arguably that game's greatest player ever, to come up with a counter-example?

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Old
11-05-2008, 10:38 AM
  #107
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Doctordark has it exactly. Malkin could be as good as sergei federov 2 way in his prime. He already has the ability to win the Hart and has another 5 years in which to improve his 2 way game. He would make detroit DOMINANT beyond belief if it was a straight up trade. Throw kronwall in? I still think detroit wins more games this year. Plus Detroit is so deep defensively it won't hurt them much.

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Old
11-05-2008, 10:40 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
Chelios?!?
Who will still be on the team in 4 years.

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Old
11-05-2008, 10:42 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
Doctordark has it exactly. Malkin could be as good as sergei federov 2 way in his prime. He already has the ability to win the Hart and has another 5 years in which to improve his 2 way game. He would make detroit DOMINANT beyond belief if it was a straight up trade. Throw kronwall in? I still think detroit wins more games this year. Plus Detroit is so deep defensively it won't hurt them much.
Really? Datsyuk is 2 way and may not have the goal scoring ability of Malkin but has amazing vision comparable to the likes of Thorton and Crosby (though Crosby's vision is unmatched and I think Thorton has a bit of an edge).

Datsyuk dominates and his backchecking ability has helped Detroit a lot while their defense has been struggling.

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11-05-2008, 01:47 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
Really? Datsyuk is 2 way and may not have the goal scoring ability of Malkin but has amazing vision comparable to the likes of Thorton and Crosby (though Crosby's vision is unmatched and I think Thorton has a bit of an edge).

Datsyuk dominates and his backchecking ability has helped Detroit a lot while their defense has been struggling.
Do you not get what you are saying?

Datsyuk is 30yrs old and he has accomplished all of this. He is 9 years older than Sidney Crosby and 8 years older than Evgeni Malkin. Both Sid and Geno will be much better players in a year or 2. Why the hell would the Penguins want to trade away Malkin when he will be better in a year or two than Datsyuk is at age 30? It's not a diss to Pavel. It's just a tap on the shoulder to Malkin and guys like him who are just soo damn talented and are developing faster.

No chance in hell Shero does this. It would have to be a massive over payment to pry Crosby or Malkin out of Pittsburgh. When i say massive overpayment i mean something that would make everyone go what the hell, that much?

You don't trade players like Malkin for players that are 8yrs older than him and are at a level that Malkin isn't far from reaching at his age. Call it homerism or whatever, it's being realistic with the learning curve and talent of one named Evgeni Malkin.

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11-05-2008, 02:15 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by vcx View Post
Do you not get what you are saying?

Datsyuk is 30yrs old and he has accomplished all of this. He is 9 years older than Sidney Crosby and 8 years older than Evgeni Malkin. Both Sid and Geno will be much better players in a year or 2. Why the hell would the Penguins want to trade away Malkin when he will be better in a year or two than Datsyuk is at age 30? It's not a diss to Pavel. It's just a tap on the shoulder to Malkin and guys like him who are just soo damn talented and are developing faster.

No chance in hell Shero does this. It would have to be a massive over payment to pry Crosby or Malkin out of Pittsburgh. When i say massive overpayment i mean something that would make everyone go what the hell, that much?

You don't trade players like Malkin for players that are 8yrs older than him and are at a level that Malkin isn't far from reaching at his age. Call it homerism or whatever, it's being realistic with the learning curve and talent of one named Evgeni Malkin.

Meh, like they do not know that already. It has already been mentioned several times in this thread as was pointed out that until three years ago and when he was far older Datsyuk was barely noticable offensively compared to what Malkin has accomplished before he could legally drink in the US. In any event this is obviously not taken seriously as a trade proposal by anyone. It is just yet another cry out to stroke Detroit whose poor stars do not get the credit they deserve. 'Datsyuk is TOO worth a Malkin. My entire self worth is tied up in convincing you of that.' You all won the cup, have a great team with great players. Now can we stop with stuff like this?

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11-05-2008, 03:39 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Meh, like they do not know that already. It has already been mentioned several times in this thread as was pointed out that until three years ago and when he was far older Datsyuk was barely noticable offensively compared to what Malkin has accomplished before he could legally drink in the US. In any event this is obviously not taken seriously as a trade proposal by anyone. It is just yet another cry out to stroke Detroit whose poor stars do not get the credit they deserve. 'Datsyuk is TOO worth a Malkin. My entire self worth is tied up in convincing you of that.' You all won the cup, have a great team with great players. Now can we stop with stuff like this?

thats right baby. we won the cup, and you lost.

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11-05-2008, 03:48 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by vcx View Post
Do you not get what you are saying?

Datsyuk is 30yrs old and he has accomplished all of this. He is 9 years older than Sidney Crosby and 8 years older than Evgeni Malkin. Both Sid and Geno will be much better players in a year or 2. Why the hell would the Penguins want to trade away Malkin when he will be better in a year or two than Datsyuk is at age 30? It's not a diss to Pavel. It's just a tap on the shoulder to Malkin and guys like him who are just soo damn talented and are developing faster.
Congrats to them. That wasn't you said. You said by having Malkin on the roster Detroit would dominate more than belief, which means Malkin would give the team something Detroit didn't have before. When we go by this year all he does is take away solid defensive play. I am aware Malkin is young and Datsyuk "sucked" when he was younger or whatever but that wasn't what you were talking about.

But you and Jaded can brag about how much greater your players are and accuse Wings fans of crying. All I'm doing is having a discussion.

Jaded: What is so wrong with saying that Datsyuk is worth a Malkin in the first place? Or even worth more than a Malkin?

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Old
11-05-2008, 04:50 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
Congrats to them. That wasn't you said. You said by having Malkin on the roster Detroit would dominate more than belief, which means Malkin would give the team something Detroit didn't have before. When we go by this year all he does is take away solid defensive play. I am aware Malkin is young and Datsyuk "sucked" when he was younger or whatever but that wasn't what you were talking about.

But you and Jaded can brag about how much greater your players are and accuse Wings fans of crying. All I'm doing is having a discussion.

Jaded: What is so wrong with saying that Datsyuk is worth a Malkin in the first place? Or even worth more than a Malkin?
because Datsuk is not worth a Malkin Straight up! if he was 24 or 25, yes....

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Old
11-05-2008, 04:57 PM
  #115
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Can this be closed!

it really is pointless to talk about something that will never happen!!!

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Old
11-05-2008, 05:37 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
Jaded: What is so wrong with saying that Datsyuk is worth a Malkin in the first place? Or even worth more than a Malkin?
Well, he's not. Because Malkin is better than Datsyuk. And has much more value when it comes to contract and age.

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11-05-2008, 05:51 PM
  #117
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Now this is just getting annoying. Lets stop citing Dats stats when he was x age. They dont prove your point mearly mislead people.

1st. Pre-lockout was a different game entirely. (malkin probably woulda started in the minors not as a mvp canidate)

2nd. Dats did not get 1st/2nd line time like Malkin did/ does. You debate it all you want but Malkin gets the sweet minutes Dats never got. Dats played on the third line with Boyd Deveraux and Brett Hull (i know a horrible line mate) But you can dis this all you want but Crosby sucked with Robersts/Lecair so the fact that Dats made Grampa Hull look like Grampa Hull is somewhat of a testimate to his abilities.

If Dats first year was after the lockout (in the wide open league) and he was given first line minutes his point totals would have been higher. THis is a FACT.

We can debate all we want as to how much higher but it really doesnt matter. Detroit wasnt a horrible team when Dats came into the league and we were able to burry him in our depth chart. Malkin was not so lucky.


Who really knows who woulda been better if their development paths switched. Its not clear so lets not assume.

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Old
11-05-2008, 05:54 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ashenhigh View Post
thats right baby. we won the cup, and you lost.


Mmmmm...classy! That's why you have no friends.



Back to the point though, Pittsburgh does NOT do this. No way are they getting rid of one of the top 3-5 players in the league who is signed to a nice long contract who also happens to be in his early 20s.

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11-05-2008, 05:59 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Fire Therrien View Post
Well, he's not. Because Malkin is better than Datsyuk.
Ok...

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11-05-2008, 06:02 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Now this is just getting annoying. Lets stop citing Dats stats when he was x age. They dont prove your point mearly mislead people.

1st. Pre-lockout was a different game entirely. (malkin probably woulda started in the minors not as a mvp canidate)
Malkin was a premier player in the RSL and a 2nd overall pick. He was also the #1 NHL prospect outside the NHL. To suggest he would've started in the minors pre-lockout is beyond ridiculous. Freaking Stan Chistov started in the NHL at 19 after scoring 0 points in 9 RSL games the previous year.

Quote:
2nd. Dats did not get 1st/2nd line time like Malkin did/ does. You debate it all you want but Malkin gets the sweet minutes Dats never got. Dats played on the third line with Boyd Deveraux and Brett Hull (i know a horrible line mate) But you can dis this all you want but Crosby sucked with Robersts/Lecair so the fact that Dats made Grampa Hull look like Grampa Hull is somewhat of a testimate to his abilities.
What the hell are you talking about? When has Crosby sucked? When was Roberts his primary linemate? Who is Lecair? What is a testimate?

Just stop.

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11-05-2008, 06:03 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Psilencer View Post
Mmmmm...classy! That's why you have no friends.



Back to the point though, Pittsburgh does NOT do this. No way are they getting rid of one of the top 3-5 players in the league who is signed to a nice long contract who also happens to be in his early 20s.
Keep saying hes 3-5 and it makes it true.
The following are better...

Crosby
Ovi
Dats
Zetts
Finger
Thornton
Ilya Kova....
Lidstrom

Is it homer to list 3 redwings even though they just won the cup???

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11-05-2008, 06:04 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by doctordark View Post
Malkin was a premier player in the RSL and a 2nd overall pick. He was also the #1 NHL prospect outside the NHL. To suggest he would've started in the minors pre-lockout is beyond ridiculous. Freaking Stan Chistov started in the NHL at 19 after scoring 0 points in 9 RSL games the previous year.



What the hell are you talking about? When has Crosby sucked? When was Roberts his primary linemate? Who is Lecair? What is a testimate?

Just stop.
I ment the tandom sucked. As in Crosby couldnt make Roberts or Leclair look good. Vs. Dats making (a washed up) Hull look good.

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Old
11-05-2008, 06:06 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Fire Therrien View Post
Because Malkin is better than Datsyuk.
Does defense only come into consideration when we're discussing Jordan Staal?

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11-05-2008, 06:10 PM
  #124
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Does defense only come into consideration when we're discussing Jordan Staal?
Greatest post ever!!!!!

BTW you can data mine the hell outta Malkin and Dats states with RSL and NHL Pre and post lockout.

I just did a quick review and there are quite a few arguments you can make for both sides. With Hull pre lockout Dats had 68 Points. The next year in the RSL Malkin and Dats had identical point totals. Granted Malkin was younger.

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11-05-2008, 06:11 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctordark View Post
Malkin was a premier player in the RSL and a 2nd overall pick. He was also the #1 NHL prospect outside the NHL. To suggest he would've started in the minors pre-lockout is beyond ridiculous. Freaking Stan Chistov started in the NHL at 19 after scoring 0 points in 9 RSL games the previous year.



What the hell are you talking about? When has Crosby sucked? When was Roberts his primary linemate? Who is Lecair? What is a testimate?

Just stop.
Get a clue man he is talking about Crosby with "Robersts" not Roberts. What kind of Pens fan are you if you don't remember the old sucky Robersts-Crosby-Lecair line

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