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Columbus/Ottawa

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Old
11-05-2008, 08:28 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heaterhassasin View Post
Voracek, Brassard, and a 2009 1st for Spezza and then Ottawa might bite.
I like Spezza but Columbus won't move their best players in a package for him...and Brassard has been their best player thus far.

I agree with Kallio -- Cbus can't move Leclaire until they see what they've got in Mason (i.e. is he ready for primetime?).

I think eventually Leclaire will be tradebait but not for another year. The goaltending position is just to important to risk moving either, especially to a team like Columbus that has problems scoring goals.

That said, you guys want Norrena?

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Old
11-05-2008, 10:14 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Whaley Klesla 97 View Post
I feel you are severely over valuing Spezza. he has benefited over the last couple years being on a line with Alfredson and Heatley.
I feel you are severly underrating Spezza, which is pretty funny considering Columbus' obvious need for a #1 center. And the whole thing about who he plays with is old and tired. Great players are great players, regardless. And Spezza is a great player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaley Klesla 97 View Post
Leclaire is a great young goaltender
If there is any overvaluing going on here, you just illustrated it with that comment. Leclaire had a very nice season last year, and he has potential, but "great"? The guy has never started more than 52 games in a season, and never won more than 24. He is oft injured, to boot. This is the centerpiece of a proposal for Spezza? C'mon...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaley Klesla 97 View Post
Ottawa who needs a long term solution at goalie, and to also pick up a promising defenseman who is 21 and also a 2nd round pick, which could be in the upper part of the 2nd round. Im not saying ottawa would be dumb not to do this deal, but its a lot more reasonable than people are making it to be.
Kris Russell offers no immediate help to the Senators. He may be promising for the future, but Ottawa isn't playing for the future. So Ottawa gives up one of the better centers in the league, with no one to replace him with, for a goaltender who can't stay healthy, a defenseman who can't find regular playing time with the Jackets and a 2nd round pick? Now, do you honestly think that's reasonable? Really?

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Old
11-05-2008, 10:26 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
Not even remotely close. To think you could not only make a proposal for Spezza not involving Nash, but also not involving Brassard, Filatov or Voracek.

Forget it.

Oh, and Auld is top-4 in the league in both GAA and SV%.
You really think that will hold up? He has proven over the years he is nothing more than a backup

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Old
11-05-2008, 10:30 AM
  #29
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Ottawa gets screwed hard in this offer!!! I have said so many times in the past on these boards that Spezza is underrated like hell and this is just another sign of it. Leclaire is good but he is not great just because of one season.

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Old
11-05-2008, 10:48 AM
  #30
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I might be screaming at deaf ears, but Spezza is not going to be traded. When Alfie retires, Spezza is the franchise player.

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Old
11-05-2008, 10:52 AM
  #31
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Nah, Spezza ain't goin nowhere. Leclaire would be a great pickup but you don't trade a top 5 pivot in the league unless:

A) you have one waiting in the wings that's primed for the #1 role.
or
B) you're getting one back in the deal.
or
C) the deal absolutely blows your mind and is a great package of players

So.. The sens don't have another #1 centre waiting for the job, they wouldn't be getting one in this deal, and that deal is definitely not a mind-blower.

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Old
11-05-2008, 11:00 AM
  #32
Neil Patrick Harris
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I'd rather keep Spezza than get an often injured and overvalued Leclaire. Leclaire is not as good as you are making him out to be. He's never played over 55 games and is not considered a top starter yet. I feel safer with Auld who has proven he can handle the pressure.

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Old
11-05-2008, 11:04 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalheadSen View Post
Hahahahahaha, 100 pt centers that can play a good all-around game that have yet to reach their prime are worth twice that package at least.
Now I don't think the OP is remotely good for Ottawa...but when did Jason Spezza become a 100 point center?

Or are we counting the lockout year where he played in Bingo?

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Old
11-05-2008, 11:15 AM
  #34
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First off I say no to this trade, it doesnt help us much now compared to if we moved spezza for a top 10 goalie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Now I don't think the OP is remotely good for Ottawa...but when did Jason Spezza become a 100 point center?

Or are we counting the lockout year where he played in Bingo?
Spezza will easily crack 100 this season, or very soon in the coming seasons. He would have most likely had it last year if not for injuries to himself and various other team mates + the meltdown our team had.

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Old
11-05-2008, 12:34 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Vicarious View Post
Spezza will easily crack 100 this season, or very soon in the coming seasons. He would have most likely had it last year if not for injuries to himself and various other team mates + the meltdown our team had.
Yeah but that's not the point. A lot of people probably can crack 100 points...but only a very few do. So until he does...let's not throw it around like it means nothing.

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Old
11-05-2008, 12:43 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalheadSen View Post
Hahahahahaha, 100 pt centers that can play a good all-around game that have yet to reach their prime are worth twice that package at least.
Good all around player! Hahaha, thanks man I need a good laugh today.

But seriously, in order for this trade to work, Columbus needs to add Brassard or Filatov.

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Old
11-05-2008, 03:45 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoringlegend08 View Post
Good all around player! Hahaha, thanks man I need a good laugh today.

But seriously, in order for this trade to work, Columbus needs to add Brassard or Filatov.
Obviously, you haven't watched one Senators game this year. FAIL.

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Old
11-05-2008, 03:51 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalheadSen View Post
Obviously, you haven't watched one Senators game this year. FAIL.
Why did he put up 100 points yet?

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Old
11-05-2008, 04:47 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Yeah but that's not the point. A lot of people probably can crack 100 points...but only a very few do. So until he does...let's not throw it around like it means nothing.
Name those 'a lot of people' who have averaged at least 1.22 points per game for multiple seasons.

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Old
11-05-2008, 05:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Why did he put up 100 points yet?
Try adjusting points for the last three seasons. Spezza's among the league leaders in points per game every single year, and has finally developed an all around game to add to his offense.

05-06: 108 points adjusted
06-07: 106 points adjusted
07-08: 99 points adjusted

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Old
11-05-2008, 05:42 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Whaley Klesla 97 View Post
yeah you are right, a goalie who led the league in shutouts last year with terrible defense ahead of him isnt worth much..

And Alex Auld isnt very good, itll soon catch up to him.

How DARE you??

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Old
11-05-2008, 05:44 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalheadSen View Post
Try adjusting points for the last three seasons. Spezza's among the league leaders in points per game every single year, and has finally developed an all around game to add to his offense.

05-06: 108 points adjusted
06-07: 106 points adjusted
07-08: 99 points adjusted
You can argue all you'd like, but he is correct. Until he puts up the century mark he is just another "could have been".

He has it in him, let's wait and see.

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Old
11-05-2008, 05:58 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Hayzed1 View Post
You can argue all you'd like, but he is correct. Until he puts up the century mark he is just another "could have been".

He has it in him, let's wait and see.
If he has it in him and you can realistically project him to score 100 points, then he's a 100 pt center.

Crosby wasn't a 100 pt center last year, by that logic. It's basically certain that Spezza would have hit 100 points or more if he played a full season in 05-06 / 06-07.

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Old
11-05-2008, 06:04 PM
  #44
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i actually tought the proposal was ok to begin with, needed a little tinkering, but pretty good..

think of real life trades, when superstars get dealt its often for that type of deal, solid players and a 1st round pick

last years trades...

Hossa
Dupuis

for

Armstrong
Esposito
Christiensen
1st round pick

If that trade got put on here....people would go FLAME or or any other negative response

on a lesser level

brad richards
johan holmqvist

for

jussi jokinen
jeff halpern
mike smith
1st round pick

same deal, dallas gets the better player, tampa gets some depth and fills a whole in net...but no star in return...

I think in real life terms thats the type of deal you would get for spezza

spezza the star

for

-leclaire- a very good goal tender, a class above ottawas current net pairing..and a potential 10 year stud

-Backman- solid defenseman would suit an improving ottawa defense

**another forward...maybe frederik modin?? i dont know just threw up a name

-1st round pick in 09...the way columbus is going, there is a good chance this could be a top 5 pick, and a genuine star coming back to ottawa...

If i was ottawa i would want to keep spezza for his career, but if he was disgruntled and wanted out...i thnk this would be a pretty good deal to make...at least to think about

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Old
11-05-2008, 06:13 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catters078 View Post
i actually tought the proposal was ok to begin with, needed a little tinkering, but pretty good..

think of real life trades, when superstars get dealt its often for that type of deal, solid players and a 1st round pick

last years trades...

Hossa
Dupuis

for

Armstrong
Esposito
Christiensen
1st round pick

If that trade got put on here....people would go FLAME or or any other negative response
We're not talking about a deadline trade for a soon to be UFA... Spezza is signed until 2015. A poor comparison in my opinion.

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Old
11-05-2008, 06:29 PM
  #46
IHWR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalheadSen View Post
If he has it in him and you can realistically project him to score 100 points, then he's a 100 pt center.

Crosby wasn't a 100 pt center last year, by that logic. It's basically certain that Spezza would have hit 100 points or more if he played a full season in 05-06 / 06-07.
This is ridiculous. Crosby wasn't a 100 point center last year...but he was the two years prior. So he's done it before...Spezza hasn't.

I'll ammend your statement: Spezza is an oft-injured center with the potential to score 100 points if he could manage to play a full season.

Make projections all you want...but don't state his stats as fact if they're not true.

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Old
11-05-2008, 06:31 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Glovely View Post
We're not talking about a deadline trade for a soon to be UFA... Spezza is signed until 2015. A poor comparison in my opinion.
it wasnt about the comparison, it was about the point that rarely to superstars get traded for superstars and more often than not its about providing the other team with an appropriate package...which is why i used the two most recent big trades...

and if your going to comment on a post you should read through the whole post...i said spezza should and probably will stay for most of his career, but if it was at a stage where he wanted out and requested a trade (hypothetical) then the package columbus could give would be adequate for ottawa...what if the first round pick turned into pick number 2 or 3...??

ottawa would be getting

a quality goal tender
a solid defenseman
a superstar in the making...

you wont get much more value than that for other trades with other teams especially with the needs you would be addressing there, now and for the future..i cant see ottawa winning a cup in the next 2-3 years, so why not look into building a great team for the future if from a star like spezza trade was requested, that was just my point that i felt with a bit of tinkering it would be a realistic trade...just my opinion

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Old
11-05-2008, 08:02 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalheadSen View Post
If he has it in him and you can realistically project him to score 100 points, then he's a 100 pt center.

Crosby wasn't a 100 pt center last year, by that logic. It's basically certain that Spezza would have hit 100 points or more if he played a full season in 05-06 / 06-07.
There's a lot of players that should have hit 100 pts in their career.

Crosby has hit 100 (as IHWR has pointed out - name abbreviated due to Redden on the NYR??) - therefore he can be considered a 100 point player.

Spezza isn't at this point. Just because he "has it in him" (my quote) doesn't mean he ever will be.

Hell, I think I could have been President. Doesn't mean I ever will. That and I'm a Canadian citizen and have never followed politics. Hayzed1.....FTW....?

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Old
11-06-2008, 05:19 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catters078 View Post
i cant see ottawa winning a cup in the next 2-3 years, so why not look into building a great team for the future if from a star like spezza trade was requested, that was just my point that i felt with a bit of tinkering it would be a realistic trade...just my opinion
1) Alfie turns 36 next month. He's still great, the best player on our team and has a huge hometown discount for us. His play and cap hit (allowing us to build a slightly better team around him) help us be contenders. We should be contenders until he retires.

2) Ottawa will have home-ice in the playoffs and may challenge for the conference title this season. I'd agree with the condescending viewpoint about Ottawa on these boards if last season could actually be explained in terms of player losses or key player declines... but it can't. Quite simply, they sucked because they cheated on plays to compensate for Gerber last season and the defensive system collapsed because nobody was playing their position properly. Now that we seem to have a goalie with the magical ability to make routine saves on perimeter shots, we should be fine until something better comes along.

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Old
11-06-2008, 06:32 AM
  #50
Kamina
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Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
This is ridiculous. Crosby wasn't a 100 point center last year...but he was the two years prior. So he's done it before...Spezza hasn't.

I'll ammend your statement: Spezza is an oft-injured center with the potential to score 100 points if he could manage to play a full season.

Make projections all you want...but don't state his stats as fact if they're not true.
Okay, so he wouldn't have scored 10 points in 14 games in 05-06 to reach that mark.
He also wouldn't have scored 13 points in 15 games to reach that mark in 06-07.

He is a 100 pt center.

But that's besides the point, and you've brought this discussion off-topic.

Jason Spezza is a top 5 playmaker in the league and is worth much more than that package. That is all. I'd rather not argue about semantics any longer.

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