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[PHI/TB] Flyers deal Downie and Eminger for Matt Carle

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:26 PM
  #76
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Tampa is really entertaining me this year. Is Phil Esposito still running that team? They are making moves at a Keenan-esque pace. The Rangers have already shown in the past that you cannot go sign 10 new guys in a season and expect to win. I really am beginning to wonder who's running things there or if there actually is anybody running anything there.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:27 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
this doesn't make any friggin sense. when jones and parent are back someone will have to go, and if it's sbisa, which i figure as most likely, carle won't be enough of an upgrade to offset losing a year off his contract.

not to mention steve downie is flyer hockey. i can't believe this. this feels like one of those deals the flyers make that bites them in the ass in a couple years. i don't wanna play against steve downie. carle won't solve any problems we're having on the blueline.

and for those of you who are already deeming this Coburn round II don't be so confident. the odds of something that ridiculous happening again are slim...not to mention downie (or even eminger, or both of them combined) isn't an aging zhitnik. this isn't even close to the coburn deal.

ugh. i'm gonna go vomit. f'in stevens.
I think Sbisa has to stay now, has he played 10 games?

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:27 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Carle has been worse the last two years than Coburn has been his entire career.
Coburn also didn't have Carle's crazy contract when the Flyers aquired him.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:28 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Acekicker123 View Post
Don't forget the 4th, Wishart, and the 1st rounder that went for Mez.

And they actually conned Boyled into signing with them when he could have been a UFA, then traded him before his NTC kicked in.
His NTC kicked in, they just threatened to waive him and that he would end up in Atlanta

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11-07-2008, 06:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
Tampa is really entertaining me this year. Is Phil Esposito still running that team? They are making moves at a Keenan-esque pace. The Rangers have already shown in the past that you cannot go sign 10 new guys in a season and expect to win. I really am beginning to wonder who's running things there or if there actually is anybody running anything there.
the owners are running things, not the hockey people...

didnt al strachan say on tsn that when tampa was opening in europe, one of the owners (i forget which) came into the dressing room and was giving the team the game plan and acting like he was the de-fact coach

its an insane asylum in tampa

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:29 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by vcx View Post
Have you seen Tampa? that entire team is terrible outside of Smith and Lecavalier. Melrose is a horrible coach and as for the trade itself, i think Carle is more salvageable than Eminger. As for Downie, i guess that's all Tampa really wanted out of the deal.
Carle stunk out the joint as part of a very good San Jose Shark team last year, too. It isn't the team that's the problem. He's just not very good - OK puck mover, soft as butter in his own zone.

Carle scored 26 of his 42 points in 06-07 on the same PP as Thornton/Marleau, but was so iffy in his own zone he was sent to the minors mid-season. And he was much, much worse in 07-08. Mediocre 3rd-pairing defender.

He might have a bit more upside than Eminger, but also makes a ton more. I don't see how that justifies moving Downie, who is IMO by far the best asset in the deal.

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11-07-2008, 06:29 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
So the only parts left of the Boyle deal is Wishart and a 4th. If you use the parts of the Boyle deal:

Traded:
Boyle
Lukowich
Kuba
SJ 1st
Carle
Picard
3rd rounder


Recieved:
Meszaros
Wishart
4th rounder
4th rounder
Downie
Eminger
Broken down like that, it looks awful for TB.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Hitman View Post
As a diehard Lightning fan who has been more than supportive of the new Lightning management, they really made a stupid ****ing move this time. I absolutely hated Steve Downie in limited action with Philly, hes a cheap shot player and I don't want that type with Tampa. Carle should have been giving more time to show what he can turn into here. On the surface, I hate this trade. It does save over 1.2 million in cap space, but who cares.
he'll be like matthew barnaby, in terms of love to have him and hate him if you don't. he'll grow on you, even if you'll never admit it.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:31 PM
  #84
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Tampa got railed.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:32 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
Did any Lightning fans see this coming?
I know I sure as hell didn't.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:34 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
So the only parts left of the Boyle deal is Wishart and a 4th. If you use the parts of the Boyle deal:

Traded:
Boyle
Lukowich
Kuba
SJ 1st
Carle
Picard
3rd rounder
Richards

Recieved:
Meszaros
Wishart
4th rounder
4th rounder
Downie
Eminger
Smith
Jokinen
Halpern (IR)
Added last year's deadline deal to the mix.

Are Bolts fans happy with what's transpired on their team in the past half year?

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:34 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
I think Sbisa has to stay now, has he played 10 games?
he has but he can be sent back at any point...it'll just count as a year against his contract.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:35 PM
  #88
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Hmm...what is going on in Tampa? Don't play well, we'll trade you??

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:35 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
what a **** deal for tampa. they got emminger and downie for boyle
Uh, you mean they got Eminger, Downie, 1st round pick, Wishart (05 1st rounder)

You could also look at it as they gave up Boyle/Kuba for Eminger, Downie, Meszaros, Wishart.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:35 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
Broken down like that, it looks awful for TB.
I suppose it should be fair to break it down cap-wise, they traded away $15,470,832 in cap room and have taken on $6,021,667 in salary

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:36 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
Broken down like that, it looks awful for TB.
The problem isn't this deal.

The problem is that they made a guy who had 15 points and was somehow a -9 while getting sheltered 3rd-pairing minutes on a 108-point SJ team the centerpiece of the Boyle deal. The Dan Boyle trade was just brutal for TB. And they overpaid for Meszaros, as well.

I'm not really sure how Carle's trade value has remained so high given his brutal performances over the past couple years.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:36 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He's just a mediocre player. I'm just shocked that Philly dumped an equal player of Carle in Eminger AND Downie to pick him up. Just a dumb-ass move. I could care less about Carle. Just makes me glad that Philly made this retarded move.
So, in closing, good deal for Philly?

Anyway, I don't think Downie actually has as much upside as people seem to think. I'm guessing he tops out at a 20ish goal guy, at best. Eminger is a little older, and doesn't seem to have put it all together. The clock is ticking on him. Carle, at least, has one really good season under his belt. He's obviously hit the skids, since then, but it's not like he doesn't at least have a shot at turning it around. He's still pretty young. He's the most skilled of the three and has the most upside of the three. Even so, he hasn't been playing well and is a pretty big risk, himself. Philly gambled here, for sure, but whether or not it's a stupid deal really depends on what they believed they've wagered, and what they believe the odds are on turning Carle around. Perhaps they feel Downie and Eminger will always be depth players. Perhaps they feel they've identified some fatal flaw in the way Carle has been coached, and feel they have the secret to turning him around. If that's the case, than it was a wise gamble.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:36 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
he has but he can be sent back at any point...it'll just count as a year against his contract.
interesting, didn't know that, thanks

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:36 PM
  #94
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I like Tampa's end of this deal. Carle has been brutal for a couple years now even though Eminger has appeared to have lost it completely.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:36 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Every guy involved has only played a handful of games for their team. Two of the three were just very recently acquired. None of the three have reached their potential or are proven in any way. If any poster here had proposed this he'd have been flamed to death and the thread would've been locked.
Flyers make a living out of trading guys after 14 games with the team.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:36 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Carle stunk out the joint as part of a very good San Jose Shark team last year, too. It isn't the team that's the problem. He's just not very good - OK puck mover, soft as butter in his own zone.

Carle scored 26 of his 42 points in 06-07 on the same PP as Thornton/Marleau, but was so iffy in his own zone he was sent to the minors mid-season. And he was much, much worse in 07-08. Mediocre 3rd-pairing defender.

He might have a bit more upside than Eminger, but also makes a ton more. I don't see how that justifies moving Downie, who is IMO by far the best asset in the deal.
That is brutal, but who knows. A good defensive partner in Philly and he could be salvaged. He's 24, there is time to turn it round for him, as well as Eminger. I just have less faith in Eminger.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:37 PM
  #97
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Don't know much about Eminger but Downie's career potential is serving 15-life for assault..
Says the person who idolizes Avery and Ott.

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Old
11-07-2008, 06:37 PM
  #98
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Nice to see the Bolts building up their collection of former Capitals. Eminger will feel right at home with Pettinger, Kolzig, and (eventually) Halpern.
I have a feeling that Tampa are looking to form a full team of Penguins and Capitals. At first I thought they were just Pittsburgh Lite (or Pittsburgh South), but with the latest trade, they have made their intentions known. They want to be the Washington Bay Penguins.

Pittsburgh: Adam Hall, Ryan Malone, Mark Recchi, Gary Roberts, and until recently, David Koci and Michel Ouellet.

Washington: Jeff Halpern, Matt Pettinger, Steve Eminger, Olaf Kolzig.


Last edited by Marns: 11-07-2008 at 06:55 PM.
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Old
11-07-2008, 06:38 PM
  #99
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what a dumb trade for both teams

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11-07-2008, 06:38 PM
  #100
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I thought Downie was a big time talent????

And a so called future Norris candidate is on his third team in ayear.

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