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Game 14: @ San Jose, 11/08

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Old
11-08-2008, 11:52 PM
  #151
Kritter471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseman View Post
What, do you want Robidas to be on Marleau's back while Turco is planning which shinpad to knock the puck off of? Robidas, like any defenseman would, was preparing for the dumpoff into the corner. Turco, who wanted to look like a superstar, decided to be a little girl about it and try to outsmart everybody.
Robidas needs to be within emergency hook distance of Marleau until the puck is out of the net area. Just like Turco can't assume his pass will go through Marleau, Robidas can't assume the puck will be out of the area safely, or it won't hit a rut in the ice or Thornton won't magically appear at the blue line and make the pass.

Turco definitely outsmarted himself, but the failsafe that needed to be there wasn't.

I"m not even saying it would have been the difference, but it's so very indicative of what's wrong with Dallas this season. Lazy/stupid/poor decisions are made worse by lazy/stupid/poor/whatever decisions by other people.

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Old
11-08-2008, 11:55 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLU View Post
You guys aren't going to talk her out of this since it was Robidas who she thinks made the mistake, and she never misses an opportunity to complain about him. Save your breath.
Actually, I think both Robidas and Turco made pretty big mistakes, and Turco made the bigger one.

And Robidas was my whipping boy two years ago. He played out of his mind last year and has settled into kind of an in between level this season. Niskanen has been my favorite problem for the past two seasons. Keep up.

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Old
11-08-2008, 11:58 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
Robidas needs to be within emergency hook distance of Marleau until the puck is out of the net area. Just like Turco can't assume his pass will go through Marleau, Robidas can't assume the puck will be out of the area safely, or it won't hit a rut in the ice or Thornton won't magically appear at the blue line and make the pass.

Turco definitely outsmarted himself, but the failsafe that needed to be there wasn't.

I"m not even saying it would have been the difference, but it's so very indicative of what's wrong with Dallas this season. Lazy/stupid/poor decisions are made worse by lazy/stupid/poor/whatever decisions by other people.
When the Sharks are on an aggressive forecheck, you don't hang around them (especially the speed-devil Marleau) just to make sure the puck doesn't nick a piece of ice or Turco handing it over to them. Turco should have played safely with the puck to the corner, like Robidas thought he would. It's Turco's fault for not communicating with his defenseman and being such a maverick with the puck. He needs to realize the situtation of a tied game on the road with a division team, and toss the puck safely to the corner where Robiads would have been to chip it to center-ice.

Go ahead and spread the wealth of blame, but we all know who solely was responsible for the clusterfup.

Turco just knows how to push my buttons. I swear he is the most unclutch regular season player ever.

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11-09-2008, 12:04 AM
  #154
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You seem to think I'm removing all blame from Turco. I'm not. I'd say he's responsible for, oh, 75-80 percent of the f'up there. But we'd only know if he was all to blame if someone had been within spitting distance of Marleau. Robidas wasn't (and Grossman had peeled of his guy as well, meaning even if Turco had made some sort of miraculous stick save, it would have been a tap in rebound).

And being a maverick with the puck is what makes Turco so valuable as a puckhandler. Yes, it'll result in implosions like this, but it's also why this team beat San Jose and particularly Anaheim in the playoffs last year.

But you continue to think it's single mistakes that are doing this team in.

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11-09-2008, 12:09 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
You seem to think I'm removing all blame from Turco. I'm not. I'd say he's responsible for, oh, 75-80 percent of the f'up there. But we'd only know if he was all to blame if someone had been within spitting distance of Marleau. Robidas wasn't (and Grossman had peeled of his guy as well, meaning even if Turco had made some sort of miraculous stick save, it would have been a tap in rebound).

And being a maverick with the puck is what makes Turco so valuable as a puckhandler. Yes, it'll result in implosions like this, but it's also why this team beat San Jose and particularly Anaheim in the playoffs last year.

But you continue to think it's single mistakes that are doing this team in.
You have 20 seconds left in a tied game on the road with a division opponent. There are two things to do: dump the puck off in the corner (the smart thing) or be a dillhole and try to make a high-risk, back-handed pass through the center of the ice between the opposing team's captain's legs (the completely stupid thing). Robidas chose the smart thing, Turco chose the incredibly stupid thing. It's Turco's fault for not communicating because obviously everyone on the ice and in the stands had no idea what he was doing. Turco doesn't have to do these high-risk, look-at-me passes to be a great puck-handler. All he has to do is the cross-rink passes that are more reward than risk. Doing stuff like this pisses me off and causes me to lose sleep as of now. Robidas doesn't have to bail Turco out there because he played the situation correctly. Turco was all ego on that clusterfup.

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11-09-2008, 12:09 AM
  #156
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I don't blame Robi at all. Turco was in possession of the puck with two options; he could have dived on it or shot it into the corner. He chose to give it to Marleau, and he stuck it in the net.

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11-09-2008, 12:09 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseman View Post
Turco just knows how to push my buttons. I swear he is the most unclutch regular season player ever.
*laughs* Fair enough. We all have our button-push players. *eyes Niskanen*

Turco has the really annoying habit of being totally clutch and unclutch in the same game. I think it stems from trying too hard, a lot of the time, especially in a game like this.

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11-09-2008, 12:12 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starsfan4ever View Post
I don't blame Robi at all. Turco was in possession of the puck with two options; he could have dived on it or shot it into the corner. He chose to give it to Marleau, and he stuck it in the net.
If he dives on it, it's a delay penalty.

I would remove all blame from Robidas if Turco had dicked around with it for a second or two. But Marleau was on him nearly as quickly as he had the puck, which leaves very little time for decision making.

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11-09-2008, 12:17 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
If he dives on it, it's a delay penalty.

I would remove all blame from Robidas if Turco had dicked around with it for a second or two. But Marleau was on him nearly as quickly as he had the puck, which leaves very little time for decision making.
First off, when the Sharks are playing dump and chase with the fastest skater chasing, I think it's obvious Turco would be hounded quickly. Secondly, Turco had time to shimmy to the corner then try to do a cute pass that backfired. He CHOSE to do that bs, he wasn't forced into doing it.

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11-09-2008, 12:18 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
If he dives on it, it's a delay penalty.

I would remove all blame from Robidas if Turco had dicked around with it for a second or two. But Marleau was on him nearly as quickly as he had the puck, which leaves very little time for decision making.
Even if Marleau skates in right on him?

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11-09-2008, 12:25 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseman View Post
First off, when the Sharks are playing dump and chase with the fastest skater chasing, I think it's obvious Turco would be hounded quickly. Secondly, Turco had time to shimmy to the corner then try to do a cute pass that backfired. He CHOSE to do that bs, he wasn't forced into doing it.
sf - technically yes, because it was a dump-in and not a shot. Some refs won't call it, some will. I don't think you risk it there.

Case - if it's obviously they're going to try and hound Turco, shouldn't the first priority be to prevent the disastrous slot turnover on everybody's part? That means Turco should play it to the corner, for sure, but it also means someone should stay on those guys who are trying to force the turnover and not assume the puck won't get tipped or misfire or whatever.

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11-09-2008, 12:26 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
And Robidas was my whipping boy two years ago. He played out of his mind last year and has settled into kind of an in between level this season. Niskanen has been my favorite problem for the past two seasons. Keep up.
Old habits die hard.

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11-09-2008, 12:30 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
sf - technically yes, because it was a dump-in and not a shot. Some refs won't call it, some will. I don't think you risk it there.

Case - if it's obviously they're going to try and hound Turco, shouldn't the first priority be to prevent the disastrous slot turnover on everybody's part? That means Turco should play it to the corner, for sure, but it also means someone should stay on those guys who are trying to force the turnover and not assume the puck won't get tipped or misfire or whatever.
The situation was Robidas was tracking Marleau, but surely Turco would displace the puck to the corner. And with no one back in the corner, Robidas would be the one retrieving the puck. I don't know what you expect Robidas to do there. If he plays the corner and Turco does the correct thing, the Stars get the puck out of their zone. If Robidas decided to get handsy with Marleau and Turco flips it to the corner when no one is there, they turn it over with a dangerous on-the-fly offense crashing the net. I don't know why you would want the latter. Robidas can't play for the possibility of a stupid mistake, he has to play for the situation. The situation called him to retrieve the puck that should have been dumped for him.

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11-09-2008, 12:34 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLU View Post
Old habits die hard.


Robidas has been one of the most solid guys this year, though he has slipped a little back into the "hit first, defend the play later" mentality. I'm concerned the new nose has taken away some of his mojo.

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11-09-2008, 12:44 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseman View Post
The situation was Robidas was tracking Marleau, but surely Turco would displace the puck to the corner. And with no one back in the corner, Robidas would be the one retrieving the puck. I don't know what you expect Robidas to do there. If he plays the corner and Turco does the correct thing, the Stars get the puck out of their zone. If Robidas decided to get handsy with Marleau and Turco flips it to the corner when no one is there, they turn it over with a dangerous on-the-fly offense crashing the net. I don't know why you would want the latter. Robidas can't play for the possibility of a stupid mistake, he has to play for the situation. The situation called him to retrieve the puck that should have been dumped for him.
The answer is Robidas has to stay in front of Marleau in that situation and never let him get in that close on Turco in the first place. If he's fronting him, then Turco doesn't worry about Marleau beating Robidas to a puck in the corner (which is my guess as to his over-thought process there - Marleau was coming so hard, he would have beaten Robidas to a puck behind the goal line, so why not play it up the middle), and he can make a safe play.

When Marleau got in front of Robidas, it forced Turco between two bad options - put it in the corner where Marleau had a decent chance of getting to it first and setting up this high-flying offense you mentioned or try something deceptive. Unfortunately for him, his bad decision ended up in Marleau's skates and Robidas was still trying to play the original situation, not the broken play that occurred.

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11-09-2008, 12:46 AM
  #166
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The bright side - we've let in only 2 goals for 2 (or 3?) straight games!

The not-so-bright-side: The 2nd goal has been late in the 3rd period both times on back to back nights.

I didn't watch the game but how typical, Turco blows it after playing lights out.

And Kritter, seriously, after watching the highlights you're absolutely insane to think that Robidas did the wrong thing, he didn't, he did what every sane man with 30 seconds left to go is supposed to do.


Last edited by Captain Awesome: 11-09-2008 at 12:51 AM.
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11-09-2008, 01:25 AM
  #167
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I could very well be insane. I'm totally sportsed out at this point after a very, very long two weeks. But that's how I saw the play initially (as in - Turco was bad, and there were other things that made it worse), and plus, if someone talks to me in absolutes, it makes me just want to play devil's advocate for my own amusement.

And I will especially bite back at anyone who pins the loss soley on Turco. He was a big part of blowing it for a critical goal, no doubt, but he was also the only reason they had a tie at that point.

Frankly, it's a baby step forward for the whole team, and especially him, even as painful as that final goal was. I will take that game from Turco any day of the week, because it gives his team a chance to win.

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11-09-2008, 03:20 AM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
sf - technically yes, because it was a dump-in and not a shot. Some refs won't call it, some will. I don't think you risk it there.

Case - if it's obviously they're going to try and hound Turco, shouldn't the first priority be to prevent the disastrous slot turnover on everybody's part? That means Turco should play it to the corner, for sure, but it also means someone should stay on those guys who are trying to force the turnover and not assume the puck won't get tipped or misfire or whatever.
marleau was an obvious threat, if turco had covered the puck he would not have been penalized.

even so, if turco would have been penalized for delay of game, all they would have had to do was kill off 20 seconds of a powerplay that had done nothing all night, on terrible ice, and would have atleast gotten a point, a very big point.

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11-09-2008, 08:23 AM
  #169
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This is the most ridiculous debate.

Anytime, every time, Turco has the puck on his stick, the defense breaks off and looks for the pass. They never stick with the forechecker. Dallas expects Turco to make the pass to beat the forecheckers. Last night, if he handled it 30 times, he did it right 29. The only player responsible is Turco.

Turco has created a culture in the team that they expect him to handle the puck with pressure from forecheckers. They didn’t put that responsibility on his shoulders, he wanted it.

Seriously, the dumbest debate of the season.

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11-09-2008, 04:17 PM
  #170
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ok.. Dallas played San Jose tighter in that game then anyone else has this year (remember that when Detroit played the Sharks after playing Anaheim the night before (and losing) they let in 4 goals).
The Sharks are playing their best right now and teams that are playing the best get the bounces most of the time, but Dallas is definetly playing better too and I fully expect a win against Los Angeles on Monday and another really close game against San Jose on wednesday.

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11-09-2008, 07:44 PM
  #171
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I was out in CA for work and went to the game with a friend. I got a lot of thank you's from Sharks fans after the game.

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