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Old
11-10-2008, 04:53 AM
  #26
Coach Parker
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I also think that many teams are looking at the recession and thinking that the cap isn't going to go up; in fact many think the cap is going to go down!

Having said that and read over the above replies and posts, it still looks reasonable to see Bouwmeester going for 6,000,000-6,500,000 as a UFA. If he really likes the team he is dealt to he might make a deal and sign before UFA.

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Old
11-10-2008, 11:54 AM
  #27
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Coburn and lupul
For

Jaybo and ?

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Old
11-10-2008, 04:35 PM
  #28
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He'll get $8M over 8 years = $64M contract if he hits the open market.

There's no point in comparing him to Phaneuf or Weber because those guys were RFA's. His only comparable is Campbell. As the premier UFA dman on the market he got $7.1M, and J-Bo is four years younger. So while Campbell will probably be on the decline for 6 of the 8 years he signed for, J-Bo will be improving/playing at his peak for the entire term of the contract.


And as for trade value, it's going to require a package similar to Boyle and Pronger.

A young NHLer, probably a former first round pick (like Lupul or Carle)
A high end prospect, probably a former first round pick (like Smid or Wishart)
And a first round pick

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Old
11-10-2008, 05:52 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Coburn and lupul
For

Jaybo and ?
Dvorak?

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:00 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayMaker View Post
[B]
And as for trade value, it's going to require a package similar to Boyle and Pronger.

A young NHLer, probably a former first round pick (like Lupul or Carle)
A high end prospect, probably a former first round pick (like Smid or Wishart)
And a first round pick
Not unless there is some type of sign and trade (very, very rare) will he garner that type of return. Pronger and Boyle were both signed when they were dealt.

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:06 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Coburn and lupul
For

Jaybo and ?
If a first or a NHL ready prospect was added, i think Florida would highly consider this.

And i would offer Jaybo a Redden like contract/Timonen contract and thats as high as i go.

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:21 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayMaker View Post
[B]

And as for trade value, it's going to require a package similar to Boyle and Pronger.

A young NHLer, probably a former first round pick (like Lupul or Carle)
A high end prospect, probably a former first round pick (like Smid or Wishart)
And a first round pick

I dont agree with this both Boyle and Pronger had years left on thier deals so they are bad comparisons, if he is traded this year it will be more like what was given for Campbell which was
A good young player not living up to thier potential
First round pick

Even if you argue that he is better then Campbell he certainly wont garner more then what Hossa got which was,
A potential top six forward (christensen)
A former first (Esposito)
and a first

but no proven top six talent or top 4 defencemen will be traded for J-Bo unless you expect a much lower long term return.

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:21 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Young, skilled, big minutes eater, valuable in every situation.

Whatever he makes, HF will declare it too much. Bet on it.

Says here he'll be at $7.5 mil per over 8 years. Remember, in pro sports, you are often paid on "spec".

The bidding for a certified #1 dman with many years ahead will be exceedingly high.

Quality all-arouund dmen are like top starting pitchers in baseball: rare and expensive.

Some may consder him overrated. I don't. In fact, I believe the opposite. A diamond on a subpar team.
He's not overrated, but it's not like the guy is underrated. There's a reason everyone is saying he'll be the top commodity in the offseason.

HF will declare it too much? If you don't like it, leave. I'm sorry, but it get's annoying when you bash the entire board EVERY single post.

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:43 PM
  #34
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The first GM to put a 7 in front of a seven digit figure to Bouwmeester that he signs will be signing away his own future...

Bouwmeester is not one of the top five defensemen in the NHL...I doubt he is a top 10.

Lidstrom
Chara
Phaneuf
Weber
Rafalski
Gonchar
Burns
Campbell
Markov
Pronger
Neidermayer
Green
Boyle

Heck, he isn't even the best defenseman on Florida right now (Ballard has been playing better and looks better out there).

So you have the people on one side saying he is only 25 and a team will be getting his best years, but then the young players mentioned above are younger and playing better than he has!

Then the other side that say that he has already proven himself as a #1 defenseman over those young players...but really, has he proven he is better than anyone on that list? If you can argue he is better than 3 of those guys you have him in the top 10...at #10.

This is also not considering the other young talent that I left off the list that teams would probably think have a bigger potential than Bouwmeester:

Doughty
J. Johnson
E. Johnson
Pieterangelo
Bogosian
Schenn
Wideman
Ballard

It is going to be interesting to see what he signs for, but all indications point to a cap freeze or lowering taking place, and with that salaries and GM's also get pulled back. I don't see any reason that a team would give out more than what Campbell was offered considering the growth of the league and cap in 2007-2008 vs. the growth this year. Campbell cashed in after a solid financial year for the NHL, while this next year will really have teams tight against the cap and in the red unless they make the playoffs.

I am a big Bouwmeester supporter and think he will have a positive impact on the right team. He will be allowed to develop IF he is the 1B defenseman on a defensively responsible team, but if he is put on a team to be their #1 or answer to their lack of offense, you can just refer to Florida's (and Jay's) playoff stats to get your prediction for the outcome of that team.

Cheers.

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:50 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker
Rafalski
Gonchar
Burns
Campbell
Markov
Green
Boyle
Doughty
J. Johnson
E. Johnson
Pieterangelo
Bogosian
Schenn
Wideman
Ballard
I'd take Bouwmeester over Wideman and Ballard easily. He has outproduced them while playing on a terrible Florida team(obviously not this season with Ballard, but 14 games is an extremely small sample. Bouwmeester outproduced Ballard for the three previous seasons). Also, there's no certainty that Bogosian, Schenn, Johnsons (2), Pietrangelo, and Doughty will be better.

Bouwmeester has the edge over Boyle and Campbell because not only is he an offensive threat, he's excellent defensively. It just doesn't show because he plays in Florida. In fact, as much as I like Burn and Green, they haven't passed him yet - Green has offensively, but imagine if Bouwmeester played with Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, etc. on the PP.

The fact is, you're not giving Bouwmeester a lot of credit for his play. He's also 25 years old - he's not even close to hitting his prime.

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:53 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayMaker View Post
He'll get $8M over 8 years = $64M contract if he hits the open market.

There's no point in comparing him to Phaneuf or Weber because those guys were RFA's. His only comparable is Campbell. As the premier UFA dman on the market he got $7.1M, and J-Bo is four years younger. So while Campbell will probably be on the decline for 6 of the 8 years he signed for, J-Bo will be improving/playing at his peak for the entire term of the contract.


And as for trade value, it's going to require a package similar to Boyle and Pronger.

A young NHLer, probably a former first round pick (like Lupul or Carle)
A high end prospect, probably a former first round pick (like Smid or Wishart)
And a first round pick
Agreed.

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:55 PM
  #37
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One of only two high profile UFA, puck-moving defensemen available in the last 2 UFA seasons - the other being Campbell who got 7.1...I would say he gets 7.5 on a 6 or 7 year package. His age is a plus, his size is a plus, the minutes he eats is a plus. His offense isn't where it should be for that kind of coin, but as someone mentioned, he's a lot better defensively than Campbell.

7.5

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:57 PM
  #38
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The NHL-teams have thrown away huge money on long-termed contracts thinking the cap will raise year after year so they'll look very smart in 5 years.. But we have a financial crisis so the cap could remain the same for a long time. So don't expect ridiculous numbers for Bouwmeester. I'd say, 5-6 year deal, 6.5 mios.

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:00 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Rattlehead View Post
HF will declare it too much? If you don't like it, leave. I'm sorry, but it get's annoying when you bash the entire board EVERY single post.


I have a better suggestion Rattlebrain: stop reading my posts (utilize the Ignore feature), and stop stalking. I do not bash the entire board, and if your own insecurity causes you to misinterpret a comment by which I stand fully, awwwwww.

Read HF every July UFA period and you will see countless opinions that Player XYZ is overpaid. Not suggesting it is correct or wrong, I am suggesting that it will happen again, with JayBo. There is a collective tendency here to expect players contracts to come in lower than they ultimately do.

Get it? Or are your feeeelings still hurt, still annoyed?

If so, grow a pair. And who the heck are you to tell anyone whether to stay or leave? Is this your playhouse?


Last edited by Trottier: 11-10-2008 at 07:06 PM.
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Old
11-10-2008, 07:06 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comely View Post
I dont agree with this both Boyle and Pronger had years left on thier deals so they are bad comparisons, if he is traded this year it will be more like what was given for Campbell which was
A good young player not living up to thier potential
First round pick

Even if you argue that he is better then Campbell he certainly wont garner more then what Hossa got which was,
A potential top six forward (christensen)
A former first (Esposito)
and a first

but no proven top six talent or top 4 defencemen will be traded for J-Bo unless you expect a much lower long term return.
Higgins, Chipchura, O'Byrne, Dandenault and 2nd round in 2009 and 1st in 2010
for
Jay Bouwmeester and Anthony Stewart
Bouwmeester as to e signed before getting traded

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:16 PM
  #41
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If Bouwmeester's season continues like it's been so far, I wouldn't be too surprised to see him sign a one year deal with a team that has some talented scoring forwards in order to increase his value on a long-term contract.

He's not making a great case for himself as an elite offensive defenseman making passes to Horton, Stillman and......?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Higgins, Chipchura, O'Byrne, Dandenault and 2nd round in 2009 and 1st in 2010
You going to trade all those assets to Free Agency in exchange to JBo? The thread is about what it would take to sign him as a UFA, not to trade for him.

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:20 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post


I have a better suggestion Rattlebrain: stop reading my posts (utilize the Ignore feature), and stop stalking. I do not bash the entire board, and if your own insecurity causes you to misinterpret a comment by which I stand fully, awwwwww.

Read HF every July UFA period and you will see countless opinions that Player XYZ is overpaid. Not suggesting it is correct or wrong, I am suggesting that it will happen again, with JayBo. There is a collective tendency here to expect players contracts to come in lower than they ultimately do.

Get it? Or are your feeeelings still hurt, still annoyed?

If so, grow a pair. And who the heck are you to tell anyone whether to stay or leave? Is this your playhouse?
I just think your act of "woe is this board" and your know-it-all attitude is worn out. If you think this has anything to do with my feelings being hurt, then you are not as perceptive as I thought.

It was a mere suggestion. I thought that if the posters at HF wind you up so much, you should just not post here.

So, next time you post, write like an adult, not like a pre-pubescent child. "feeeeeelings"? Unless you have carpel tunnel, I cannot excuse the childish way you wrote that word out. I would also take you seriously if you didn't say things like "Rattlebrain" and have an emoticon every paragraph. Usually people mistype the name of the poster when they know they are wrong.

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:21 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariolemieux66 View Post
Higgins, Chipchura, O'Byrne, Dandenault and 2nd round in 2009 and 1st in 2010
for
Jay Bouwmeester and Anthony Stewart
Bouwmeester as to e signed before getting traded
While the offer is actually not too far off you have to give some young proven top talent coming back for Bouwmeester if he is signed long-term. Higgins is nice but is a hard-working 2nd liner, Chipchura is a 3rd-liner at best, Dandenault is uselesss. O'byrne, dont know much about him, a huge shutdown-defenseman? I am not sure if Montreal is a good partner for such a trade, if i think what Ottawa got for Meszaros this year..

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11-10-2008, 07:23 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Rattlehead View Post
I just think...
I appreciate you devoting such time and thought toward me.

I'll be sure to give your advice as much consideration as I do the rest of your posts.

Now, best to allow HF posters (including ourselves) to discuss JayBo. If you have any other unsolicited comments, feel free to PM me, and I'll be sure to continue to ignore you.

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11-10-2008, 07:23 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
If Bouwmeester's season continues like it's been so far, I wouldn't be too surprised to see him sign a one year deal with a team that has some talented scoring forwards in order to increase his value on a long-term contract.

He's not making a great case for himself as an elite offensive defenseman making passes to Horton, Stillman and......?



You going to trade all those assets to Free Agency in exchange to JBo? The thread is about what it would take to sign him as a UFA, not to trade for him.
if the panthers sign Bouwmeester before trading him, maybe a 4 year deal.I do the trade.
Maybe the 1st round is too much

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:26 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
I appreciate you devoting such time and thought toward me.

I'll give your advice as much consideration as I do the rest of your posts.

Now, best to allow HF posters (including ourselves) to discuss JayBo.
Ah I see, it alright for you to bash posters, but when they reply in a non-insulting way, you avoid responding to the criticism.

Anyways, my thoughts on JayBo's value has already been posted. He is going to get a lot of money this offseason because he's worth it - especially after what Campbell got last season.

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:29 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
but then again if Redden can get 6.5 million
let's look at who gave redden 6.5 million.

i say 6.5 is where Bouwmeester maxes out.

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:34 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Vic Rattlehead View Post
I'd take Bouwmeester over Wideman and Ballard easily. He has outproduced them while playing on a terrible Florida team(obviously not this season with Ballard, but 14 games is an extremely small sample. Bouwmeester outproduced Ballard for the three previous seasons). Also, there's no certainty that Bogosian, Schenn, Johnsons (2), Pietrangelo, and Doughty will be better.

Bouwmeester has the edge over Boyle and Campbell because not only is he an offensive threat, he's excellent defensively. It just doesn't show because he plays in Florida. In fact, as much as I like Burn and Green, they haven't passed him yet - Green has offensively, but imagine if Bouwmeester played with Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, etc. on the PP.

The fact is, you're not giving Bouwmeester a lot of credit for his play. He's also 25 years old - he's not even close to hitting his prime.
Oh I'm giving him credit on his play bigtime...$6,500,000 credit. But I just don't see how he has earned $7,000,000 for his years in the NHL. I think there are other players that were on that list that are better and are getting paid accordingly.

I disagree with him being better than Boyle because he has yet to do anything to prove that. Stanley Cup rings speak volumes...so does making the playoffs. I also look at what Campbell brings to the table and what his arrival on Chicago has meant for that team (7-3-3). Great players make teams better, and Bouwmeester needs a team to get him going, not the other way around.

I would also be hesitant to see him as better than Green or Burns but I see your point about what team they are on. I don't see how MIN's offense and youth are that much better to work with than FLA's, but WAS is much better.

As far as money goes, does anyone think Bouwmeester is worth 2.5 to 3 million more than Green? What about 2 Wideman's? 4.5 Million more than Burns?

People keep citing the UFA status and the upcoming July 1st and how he is the top commodity on the market. Remember that is the same market that is in a recession with a cap coming down, and contracts also going down. So why would Bouwmeesters value go even higher?

Burns, Green, Phaneuf are all 23. He is two years older but their curve is already higher than his. Their stats also are better than his were.

At 22 Bouwmeester was 5 goals, 41 assists, 46 points.

At 22 Green was 18 goals, 38 assists, 56 points.

At 22 Phaneuf was 17 goals, 43 assists, 60 points.

At 22 Burns was 15 goals, 28 assists, 43 points.

So why do we have such high regard for Bouwmeester? I agree that he is a great defenseman who deserves 6.5 million tops. I don't see any reason (numbers, playoffs, potential, history in tournaments, recession) that he should get anywhere above that. If so, the GM has risked everything on a player who has proven little.

I really think that a lot of us have succumb to the Canadian hype and are wanting this player on our teams just a little bit too much.

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:34 PM
  #49
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I'm thinking he'll get at least 7.5+ on the open market. Fair pay by todays standards.

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11-10-2008, 07:41 PM
  #50
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I really think that a lot of us have succumb to the Canadian hype and are wanting this player on our teams just a little bit too much.
It's not Canadian hype. He's a defensemen that can do everything, the complete package. And once he's off of Florida and on to something better, you know he'll only improve. Today's salaries aren't necessarily determined by how well you've played, they're determined by how well you're expected to play during the years of the contract. Sorry, but if he hits the open market, Bouwmeester will be fetching quite a bit more than 6.5 million.

And the Phaneuf comparison is off. Phaneuf was an RFA and he never hit Free Agency, not even mentioning Calgary's GM is Darryl Sutter. And Phaneuf is making 6.5 million. While I think Phaneuf is better than Bouwmeester, he's not really all that far ahead.

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