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Fan threatening to sue team over game worn jersey auction

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Old
08-23-2016, 02:08 AM
  #1
LadyStanley
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Fan threatening to sue team over game worn jersey auction

http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/Ju...slam!%20hockey

Fan bids on league MVP's game worn 3rd jersey. (One of multiple jerseys in that color he wore in the course of the season and playoffs.)

Final jersey worn (in Memorial Finals) of that color donated to HHOF.

Fan threatening to sue that game worn jersey he received is not the one he bid on. Team said they'd try to get the jersey back from HHOF, if he's sign confidentiality agreement.

The player? OHL's London Knights Mitch Marner.

Quote:
The kicker in this dispute?

Galbraith’s lawyer is Cohen Highley’s Gene Chiarello, second on the Knights all-time list of goaltending victories and a director of the hockey team’s alumni association.
Rarely do I expect league final jerseys to be available. Playoffs, maybe; perhaps a team issued "final" jersey.

Hard to believe this guy is going to all this trouble for a game worn jersey.

But, I guess it takes all kinds.

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08-23-2016, 02:38 AM
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93LEAFS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/Ju...slam!%20hockey

Fan bids on league MVP's game worn 3rd jersey. (One of multiple jerseys in that color he wore in the course of the season and playoffs.)

Final jersey worn (in Memorial Finals) of that color donated to HHOF.

Fan threatening to sue that game worn jersey he received is not the one he bid on. Team said they'd try to get the jersey back from HHOF, if he's sign confidentiality agreement.

The player? OHL's London Knights Mitch Marner.



Rarely do I expect league final jerseys to be available. Playoffs, maybe; perhaps a team issued "final" jersey.

Hard to believe this guy is going to all this trouble for a game worn jersey.

But, I guess it takes all kinds.
There is a big discussion about this on the Knights board. Long-term Knights fans who know this guy are claiming the jersey is clearly a replica and has not been game-worn. Maybe it is a mix-up of some sort, but it appears that it may border on fraud. I don't think any die-hard fan really wants to sue the team they love unless they feel they were legitimately wronged.

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08-23-2016, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 93LEAFS View Post
There is a big discussion about this on the Knights board. Long-term Knights fans who know this guy are claiming the jersey is clearly a replica and has not been game-worn. Maybe it is a mix-up of some sort, but it appears that it may border on fraud. I don't think any die-hard fan really wants to sue the team they love unless they feel they were legitimately wronged.
If the jersey had been given to the HHOF because of his accomplishments then they should have issued the man a full refund, along with another at least team issued jersey, and basically whatever would have made him happy. Trying to pass off a replica as an official game worn is something you worry about when buying from ebay, not team auctions. These are collectors items and as such I imagine need to be authenticated and tagged as being what the person purchased, if true this isn't just bad publicity, it's downright fraud. How many others received replicas and didn't know any better? Eichel's game worn Sabres jersey just went for $39k, that's a hell of an investment, could you imagine finding out you didn't get what you paid for?

Hope this guy gets the jersey or another couple of game worns and a visit from Mitch to sign them in person, and I hope someone looks into the other jerseys the Knights have been selling to others who may not know any better.

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08-23-2016, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/Ju...slam!%20hockey


Hard to believe this guy is going to all this trouble for a game worn jersey.

But, I guess it takes all kinds.
For $3,510 I would expect to get what I paid for!

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08-23-2016, 06:24 AM
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There might be a bit more than meets the eye here.

I can't pre-judge this or any case, but there's a suggestion that the Knights only had one set of black jerseys. How would we know that factual issue?

If that were true, and the collector waited until all the other game-worn blacks had been distributed to ask where his is and then received a replica doctored with a few puck marks to look game worn, he should get more than his purchase price back.

He should get at least his purchase price and legals, and something for his time and effort spent on this.

If they didn't sent him an authentic game-worn jersey and didn't offer to send him a refund until he had to hire a lawyer to represent him them someone has to pay the lawyer too.

If he really did get what he paid for then he's wasting his time and money, but some collectors do know what to look for and are able to recognize what they've got. A letter from the Knights saying it's authentic doesn't make it so.

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08-23-2016, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/Ju...slam!%20hockey

Fan bids on league MVP's game worn 3rd jersey. (One of multiple jerseys in that color he wore in the course of the season and playoffs.)

Final jersey worn (in Memorial Finals) of that color donated to HHOF.

Fan threatening to sue that game worn jersey he received is not the one he bid on. Team said they'd try to get the jersey back from HHOF, if he's sign confidentiality agreement.

The player? OHL's London Knights Mitch Marner.



Rarely do I expect league final jerseys to be available. Playoffs, maybe; perhaps a team issued "final" jersey.

Hard to believe this guy is going to all this trouble for a game worn jersey.

But, I guess it takes all kinds.
Is the bolded part true? I wouldn't be surprised if a junior team only had one set of each colour jerseys.

Also just solely from reading the article, pretty clear once they offered him the real jersey in exchange for a 'confidentiality agreement' (aka stop telling everyone we tried to pull a fast one on you) that the team is guilty.

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Old
08-23-2016, 08:52 AM
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To be clear - it's my assumption there were multiple black jerseys worn. I don't know (based on reading this article) if there were or were not.

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08-23-2016, 08:58 AM
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I read the LK thread for background and if he was given a forged jersey then I fully support him suing them. I don't know how someone goes to the trouble of adding fake wear to a regular jersey and doesn't think "Hmm maybe this isn't the best choice." I'm curious if the letter of authenticity increases the team's liability. I'm not sure about fraud laws in Canada but if the organization officially states that a fake jersey is authentic then I assume they would be held responsible even if the team itself wasn't perpetrating the fraud by falsifying the jersey(which may be more difficult to prove).

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Old
08-23-2016, 09:03 AM
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Have to see the story from both sides before I make a judgment here. That said if the team wronged him in any way then he certainly has a case.

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Old
08-23-2016, 09:06 AM
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This team held up a NHL organisation while it does micky mouse bush league stuff like this?

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08-23-2016, 02:06 PM
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https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comm...omment/d6snpgk

Not sure if same poster or not from here, but good details here.

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08-23-2016, 03:50 PM
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The listing says it was worn throughout the 15-16 season. A pretty reasonable assumption is that the Knights only have one set. I think it's pretty clear this guy has a case. He has a jersey and the HHoF has a jersey. One has clear signs it's not even game worn or issued and the other is in the HOF.

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08-23-2016, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by OzFlyers View Post
For $3,510 I would expect to get what I paid for!
I'd expect much more than a sweaty jersey for that kind of money.

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Old
08-23-2016, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Beauner View Post
The listing says it was worn throughout the 15-16 season.
Yeah, it's as straightforward as can be:

Quote:
http://auction.chl.ca/iSynApp/auctio...tionId=1036487

This jersey was worn in game throughout the entire 2015-16 season and includes a letter of authenticity.

"Worn in game throughout the entire 2015-16 season" means only one set of jerseys were used -- or at most, a primary set and perhaps some backup jersey in rare cases where the main one needed to be taken for repairs.

In any case, it's clear that Marner had one jersey that season. This man bought said jersey. The team either gave him that one, or it didn't. Sending it to the HHOF is not an excuse, as the jersey was no longer theirs to send.

Someone messed up badly here.

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Old
08-23-2016, 04:12 PM
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Whats pretty bad too is the public stuff the Knights have done on their end to bolster their case against the guy since they know its a lie.

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08-23-2016, 05:17 PM
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If the jersey they gave him was only worn through the regular season (as the team insists), why does it have a Memorial Cup patch on it? They obviously tossed it on there after the fact, hoping he wouldn't realize. Why didn't the Knights just tell the Hall that the jersey was spoken for, and that they'd have to speak with the new owner if they'd like to borrow it for display? It's not like they need it for their permanent collection - no one is going to be going down there in 20 years time looking for it.

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08-23-2016, 05:40 PM
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My understanding is that those seriously involved in the collectibles hobby/business use a variety of techniques to authenticate a jersey, with photo referencing usually a key step early on in the process. A reasonably competent collector can spot a fake quickly using this technique.

I'm not much of a collector myself, but I have some experience with Certificates of Authenticity in other spheres. I'd be curious to read the document the Knights provided with the jersey.

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08-23-2016, 06:16 PM
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The real sad part is that I'm sure the guy wrote or contacted the London Knights to try and resolve this, and was either rebuffed or lied to.

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08-23-2016, 07:11 PM
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The Toronto Star has an interesting piece that outlines some of the techniques the purchaser used to examine the jersey.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...morabilia.html

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08-23-2016, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post
The Toronto Star has an interesting piece that outlines some of the techniques the purchaser used to examine the jersey.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...morabilia.html
I am no Perry Mason but I think this is the smoking gun

Quote:
The Knights’ Whiffen says the delay happened because the team was in the process of firing its merchandise manager at that time.

“We had someone overseeing that and it wasn’t working out. We terminated his employment.”

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Old
08-23-2016, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 93LEAFS View Post
There is a big discussion about this on the Knights board. Long-term Knights fans who know this guy are claiming the jersey is clearly a replica and has not been game-worn. Maybe it is a mix-up of some sort, but it appears that it may border on fraud. I don't think any die-hard fan really wants to sue the team they love unless they feel they were legitimately wronged.
That's the thing that just makes me incredulous with these sports teams

Same thing happened with Eli Manning, he swapped out a game worn Jersey for a non game worn one and tried to sell it as game worn

That they're want this guy to sign an NDA to get what he paid for is hilarious

If you value your memorabilia so much, committing fraud is not the way to keep it. Just don't sell it in the first place

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08-23-2016, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BadgerBruce View Post
The Toronto Star has an interesting piece that outlines some of the techniques the purchaser used to examine the jersey.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...morabilia.html
pretty damning article.

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Old
08-23-2016, 11:22 PM
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Killion
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pretty damning article.
Sure... but what kind of mind does this... pays $4K for a Jr. Players jersey? Thats avaricious, total Wild Speculation... the fool deserves to be screwed. Common sense right out GD window.

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08-24-2016, 03:56 AM
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Sure... but what kind of mind does this... pays $4K for a Jr. Players jersey? Thats avaricious, total Wild Speculation... the fool deserves to be screwed. Common sense right out GD window.
sports fans don't think "who would pay that much" they think "man, this kids going to be a superstar and I have a chance to buy his game worn jersey from his final and record setting junior season." Who wishes they had bought Gretzky or Lemieux's game worn back in the day, if you had a chance would you buy them knowing what you know now? It's all a gamble, but when you buy from a team you expect to get what you paid for. As I said earlier Eichel's game worn jersey went for $39k from his pretty good rookie season. If he ends up bringing a cup to Buffalo or going in the HHoF I imagine that price multiplies quickly. If he's a huge bust and ends up out of the league in 5 years he's got a really expensive jersey to remind him not to speculate on sports memorabilia. No one feels sorry for the person who misses and over spends, but damn right they should get exactly what they paid for.

in the NHL I believe most if not all game worn jerseys sold to public are not only given a letter of authenticity but have patches sewn in that give details such as the time period the jersey was worn and serial number. Looking at in game photos from that time period should match up to the jersey bought if it's legitimate. So the guy saying photos aren't reliable is just being rediculous. It's exactly how people authenticate their purchased game worms, years even decades later. Looking at one photo may not line up, but grab a dozen from different games in that period and your jersey should show up. The one who doesn't seem to know what their talking about is the guy from the Knights.


Last edited by Not Sure: 08-24-2016 at 04:13 AM.
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Old
08-24-2016, 06:23 AM
  #25
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Sure... but what kind of mind does this... pays $4K for a Jr. Players jersey? Thats avaricious, total Wild Speculation... the fool deserves to be screwed. Common sense right out GD window.
LOL ... 'cause nobody around here could possibly be tempted by a $1200 bottle of 26 year old, single-malt Glenfiddich ...

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