HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kostopoulos suspended 3 games for hit on Van Ryn

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-10-2008, 04:29 PM
  #51
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,565
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I personally think all suspensions should be longer... but what is the league doing... I can't figure it out.

Jones got 2 games for his hit on bergeron.... Hollweg got 3 games for his 4th hitting from behind in 42 gp.

This is Kostos first ever suspension and first ever boarding major.

So what is happening here?? are we saying Kosto is worse/as bad as those two cause if thats the case than Colin Campbell is wrong on this one. IMO

Are we saying we are gonna start taking a serious stand now 1/4 of the way into this new season when we didn't with Hollweg?? Okay i can accept that... and I've said for a long time the league needs to get tougher... but 3 games isn't gonna do the job either

I'd start like this if you really wanted to stop these hits
10 games for the first offence
1/2 season for the second
Full season + playoffs for the third (1 full calender year)
Out of the league for the fourth
=====================

I've also seen suggestions of suspend the guy as long as the other one is hurt.
This is unenforceable IMO.

As for the suggestion that you suspend a guy for how long the other guy is hurt, i like that in theory... but i don't think it works in practice. How do you enforce it??

Example 1) You are the Senators and its the Stanley Cup final against Anaheim... Pronger elbows Dean McAmmond (a third or fourth liner for you) in the face. We all know this really happened, but lets pretend for a moment... Lets pretend the rule is he is suspended till McAmmond comes back plus one game. How do we stop the Sens/McAmmond from faking the injury and/or milking it for all its worth so that Pronger can't come back in the series?? What about two teams in a regular season playoff race in the same scenario??

Example 2) You hit Martin Havlat... its not from behind... but its a bit of a charge.. you left your feet... but its not a headshot either... its just a simple charging penalty, and is against the rules. Havlat reinjures his shoulder for the 500th time and is out for the full season.... Are you suspended for this?? How long??

Example 3) You do something completely dirty... a full out hit from behind, a charge, leaving your feet, headshot, everything in one; very much an attempt to injure as you do it with reckless abandon... but the other player is not hurt.

How is the player in Example 2 suspended for longer than the player in Example 3.... They need to punish the intent and the action not the result.
Good post. Good examples. Good critique of the precedent. Am I allowed to just say "good"?

No... ok, I still think the suspensions don't need to be as long as you propose in your ideal case. Just talk to the new PA boss. If anybody complains about the players getting hurt, talk to him. Get him to send a memo to the players or whatever they do to try to come to common ground on an issue. And again, if the players themselves don't care, then the league should just leave things as they are, with the existing precedents more or less intact. If the players care enough to propose their own suspension criteria and durations, then all well and good, Bettman and co. ought to go with their call.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:32 PM
  #52
hockeyscribe22
HFB Partner
 
hockeyscribe22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston and Montreal
Country: United States
Posts: 4,228
vCash: 500
This league is a joke!

They need to stop basing suspensions on result. If Tom K gets 3 games here, how did Jones only get two for the Bergeron hit?

Make a set # of games for hits like this, regardless of intention and result and then you'll see at least a little change!

hockeyscribe22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:33 PM
  #53
HH
GO HABS GO!
 
HH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 View Post
They need to stop basing suspensions on result. If Tom K gets 3 games here, how did Jones only get two for the Bergeron hit?

Make a set # of games for hits like this, regardless of intention and result and then you'll see at least a little change!
How many times have we said that? Colin Campbell should get fired altogether and get a new guy in there to change that **** around.

HH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:36 PM
  #54
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,565
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Partly yes, play smarter and he wouldn't be in the hospital. Did you ever play ice hockey? I've played Bantam AA until age 15 and I know when you come full speed along the boards it is impossible to stop, you could avoid the player but then you do a la Luis Mendoza and go banging into the boards by yourself. Kostopoulos couldn't avoid it and Van Ryn should have played smarter. Heck, you learn in pee-wee not to put your back against the boards.
I know what you meant to say. (i.e. face the boards). But then you learn in junior on up that if you want to try to draw a boarding penalty... that's the way to do it.

The edge slices both ways. Players need to play hard to stay in the lineup. Players sometimes also feel like they need to draw penalties to give their team a better chance to win. In both cases they sometimes forget these days that they're not actually invincible.

End of the day if a broken finger, nose, 3 game suspension is all that comes out of it, then not much of a big deal for anybody.

But that's kind of a best-case scenario on the outcome. It'd be too bad for somebody if everybody waits for worse cases. But usually that's how these things work. If they work at all. Too bad for somebody.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:37 PM
  #55
Newfie John
Hall of Famer
 
Newfie John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsGuy19 View Post
Why should Kostopoulos let up?
Didn't have to read past there.

Newfie John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:37 PM
  #56
Kirk Muller
Registered User
 
Kirk Muller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brrr -18, Gomez Cold
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,330
vCash: 500
I have zero problem with the suspension however it just doesn't follow any sort of rhyme nor reason.

They NHL continues to just pull numbers out of a lottery machine and hand out suspensions. Whats the point of having a person in charge of discipline when you just make up the numbers. Save some money and just give the refs the power to suspend someone on the spot for what they think is appropriate. There would be no difference.

Kirk Muller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:38 PM
  #57
HH
GO HABS GO!
 
HH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Didn't have to read past there.
Because. he. had. no. time. GOD! Are you blind when reading or something?! Go play ice hockey and come back to me.

HH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:38 PM
  #58
HH
GO HABS GO!
 
HH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I know what you meant to say. (i.e. face the boards). But then you learn in junior on up that if you want to try to draw a boarding penalty... that's the way to do it.

The edge slices both ways. Players need to play hard to stay in the lineup. Players sometimes also feel like they need to draw penalties to give their team a better chance to win. In both cases they sometimes forget these days that they're not actually invincible.

End of the day if a broken finger, nose, 3 game suspension is all that comes out of it, then not much of a big deal for anybody.

But that's kind of a best-case scenario on the outcome. It'd be too bad for somebody if everybody waits for worse cases. But usually that's how these things work. If they work at all. Too bad for somebody.
Then it's at your own risk, Van Ryn is at fault as much as Kostopoulos on that play.

HH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:39 PM
  #59
Newfie John
Hall of Famer
 
Newfie John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Partly yes, play smarter and he wouldn't be in the hospital. Did you ever play ice hockey? I've played Bantam AA until age 15 and I know when you come full speed along the boards it is impossible to stop, you could avoid the player but then you do a la Luis Mendoza and go banging into the boards by yourself. Kostopoulos couldn't avoid it and Van Ryn should have played smarter. Heck, you learn in pee-wee not to put your back against the boards.


Impossible to stop? Maybe. Impossible to not push the player head first into the boards by turning your body in an effort of a big hit, definitely not.

Newfie John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:39 PM
  #60
CrisisInMTL
 
CrisisInMTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 382
vCash: 500
I just went on youtube and took another look at the hit. We can clearly see as Kosto is coming in, Van Ryn has his shoulder out, to absorb the oncoming hit, just like every defenseman is taught starting in Pee Wee.

I took this screen shot.



Yeah, Kosto really had time to lay off

CrisisInMTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:39 PM
  #61
Bill McNeal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,321
vCash: 50
Seems very fair to me.

I've had problems with NHL suspensions and consistency in the past, but I guess I shouldn't complain if they get it right.

Bill McNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:40 PM
  #62
Newfie John
Hall of Famer
 
Newfie John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Then it's at your own risk, Van Ryn is at fault as much as Kostopoulos on that play.
Do you really mean this? Van Ryn thought to himself, "I'm going to draw a penalty here by doing this"?. Seriously now..

Newfie John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:40 PM
  #63
Analyzer
#WeAreBoston
 
Analyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,248
vCash: 500
Almost worst case scenario was Bergeron last year, no ?

I say he should have gotten 5, but 3, meh. I hope it sends some kind of signal to the rest of the league to not do that and for others to not be an idiot and stop 3 feet from the board when someone has been chasing you.

Analyzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:40 PM
  #64
HH
GO HABS GO!
 
HH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Impossible to stop? Maybe. Impossible to not push the player head first into the boards by turning your body in an effort of a big hit, definitely not.
When the play happens in a fraction of a second, then, no. Like I said, go play ice hockey.

HH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:41 PM
  #65
Habs4Lyfe
Drive for 25
 
Habs4Lyfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mississauga
Country: India
Posts: 1,550
vCash: 500
This is how NHL Senior Vice President, Hockey Operations Mike Murphy saw it...

Quote:
"We have criteria we use when we look at these hits. It wasn't a hit to the head. It resulted in a check from behind, which is not legal, and then his head hit the glass. It wasn't late. He (Van Ryn) wasn't unsuspecting. He knew there was a forechecker coming. He had the puck, he expected to be played. He started to reverse direction to evade the forechecker and that's when the hit happened. There was an injury to the player, and the player didn't leave his skates, he didn't jump into him."
This is how NHL Senior Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations Colin Campbell saw it...

Quote:
"While it is my determination that Kostopoulos did not deliver a check to an unsuspecting opponent, his actions caused injuries,"
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=391684

and according to that article, it says that Jones received 4 games for his hit on Bergeron

Habs4Lyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:41 PM
  #66
HabsoluteFate
Registered User
 
HabsoluteFate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,869
vCash: 500
as i mentioned yesterday in the other thread they punish the result as always...

not that he didnt deserve it....if he got 3 games then it should always be 3 games minimum for anyone else. perhaps if the league actually improved their on ice refs and actually called the penalties when they should perhaps we would see less questionable hits

HabsoluteFate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:41 PM
  #67
HH
GO HABS GO!
 
HH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Do you really mean this? Van Ryn thought to himself, "I'm going to draw a penalty here by doing this"?. Seriously now..
Read up, are you blind when reading? Did I say that? It is his fault he put his face facing the boards, if you can't deny it, leave our board and go gloat on your tanking.

HH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:42 PM
  #68
Newfie John
Hall of Famer
 
Newfie John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
When the play happens in a fraction of a second, then, no. Like I said, go play ice hockey.
1) Only Americans call it "ice hockey".
2) You don't know how much I've played. You played until you were 15 when a hit feels like a pillow fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Read up, are you blind when reading? Did I say that? It is his fault he put his face facing the boards, if you can't deny it, leave our board and go gloat on your tanking.
He was protecting the puck in his own zone instead of putting the puck into territory he was unsure of. It was the right play in those circumstances and Kostopoulos made no effort to lay off at all. Very irresponsible.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 11-10-2008 at 04:50 PM.
Newfie John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:43 PM
  #69
HH
GO HABS GO!
 
HH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Lyfe View Post
This is how NHL Senior Vice President, Hockey Operations Mike Murphy saw it...



This is how NHL Senior Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations Colin Campbell saw it...



http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=391684

and according to that article, it says that Jones received 4 games for his hit on Bergeron
Basically Campbell is saying like we saw it, that Van Ryn turned at the last minute and because there was an injury, it was 3 games. THEN WHY WAS JONES SUSPENDED 2 GAMES WHEN BERGERON ALWAYS HAD HIS BACK TURN AND JONES COULD HAVE STOPPED AND GOT INJURED MORE SERIOUSLY GET 2 GAMES?! ****ING NHL!

HH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:45 PM
  #70
HH
GO HABS GO!
 
HH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
He was protecting the puck in his own zone instead of putting the puck into territory he was unsure of. It was the right play in those circumstances and Kostopoulos made no effort to lay off at all. Very irresponsible.
I'm sorry, I don't know what hockey coaches tell you, but there should always be a forward on the other point ready to pick the puck off the boards, the play he made was dumb and like Colin Campbell said, he knew it was coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
1) Only Americans call it "ice hockey".
2) You don't know how much I've played. You played until you were 15 when a hit feels like a pillow fight.
I don't know how much you played, but judging on how you are explaining the play, you probably didn't play a whole lot.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 11-10-2008 at 04:50 PM.
HH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:46 PM
  #71
hockeyscribe22
HFB Partner
 
hockeyscribe22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston and Montreal
Country: United States
Posts: 4,228
vCash: 500
Two games for Jones...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Lyfe View Post
This is how NHL Senior Vice President, Hockey Operations Mike Murphy saw it...



This is how NHL Senior Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations Colin Campbell saw it...



http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=391684

and according to that article, it says that Jones received 4 games for his hit on Bergeron
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/stor...uspension.html

hockeyscribe22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:48 PM
  #72
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Impossible to stop? Maybe. Impossible to not push the player head first into the boards by turning your body in an effort of a big hit, definitely not.
I agree with you... .was it impossible for Kostopolous to stop and avoid contact alltogether.... yes I think it was... no matter what he was gonna run into VR.
However after he saw the numbers he followed through and finished the check... there is no need for that.

Beakermania* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:53 PM
  #73
brownman*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,229
vCash: 500
I believe the entire world, outside Canada and the US, calls it ice hockey.

brownman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 04:55 PM
  #74
Stradale
Registered User
 
Stradale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
How didnt Van Ryn didnt expect a 4th line player with 3 feet from him, not hit him? He turn around, saw Kostopoulos and decided to put his head first thinking Kostopoulos will hit the glass next to him or what?

Did Van Ryn put himself in a vulnerable position or not?

Two weeks ago, people was defending Doug Weight because he choose to hit Sutter's head instead of going for the puck and people was saying it happen too fast, Weight has no choice to hit him on the head, and Sutter was down so he was in a vulnerable situation. In Kosto's case, both playing was going for the puck, at almost the same speed, since Van Ryn arrived to the puck first, Kosto decided to hit him first and going for the puck after, but for some reason, Van Ryn put his head down giving his back to Kostopoulos and TKO has no choice to hit him since he was going at almost full speed so he didnt have time to analyze Van Ryn position was dangerous, so put on the break with a 25kmh to 0 within 2 feets and watch Van Ryn do what he wants.

Dont get me wrong, im not saying Kostopoulous did not deserve the suspension. What he did was dangerous but he didnt do it on purpose, but you have to be responsible for your act, like an accidental high-stick that could end up for a 2 or 4 minutes penalty. My point is why didnt Weight got a suspension, it was a dangerous play to end up with a violent hit to the head, even if he didnt mean it, why Sauer didnt get a suspension?

People were blaming Kostitsyn because he had his head down, same goes for Lindros, Drury etc etc... so that gives an excuse to the hitter, but why in this case, Van Ryn is the victim with a concussion, broken nose and hand, so no, he cannot accept he put himself on a vulnerable position.

I dont understand why a player that has his head down on open ice CAN be hit on the head but a player putting himself in a vulnerable position near the board cannot.

Stradale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2008, 05:03 PM
  #75
HotPie
Registered User
 
HotPie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,587
vCash: 500
I'm fine with the suspension, but it would be nice to have a little consistency.

HotPie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.