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Kostopoulos suspended 3 games for hit on Van Ryn

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11-11-2008, 11:32 AM
  #151
Stradale
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
It was the trailing skate that Kostitsyn deliberately took out and the puck was three feet away and as I showed you hitting players from behind is a pattern of behaviour for him.
You know what is a POINT. OF. VIEW? You have yours, i have mine.

You think Andrei intentionnaly trip Schenn, i say Andrei was trying to poke the puck but hit Schenn skate instead. Plus, i think Schenn was already about to fall before Andrei stick touches him. Now go back your board, and talk about it, they will probably share your opinion. Dont come here trying to make me change my mind on that play.


Last edited by Squiffy: 11-11-2008 at 11:51 AM. Reason: quote
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11-11-2008, 11:35 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Except MVR didn't turn around at the last second. [mod edit: deleted]
It was more like the last 10th of a second. Stupid move on Van Ryn's part.

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11-11-2008, 11:38 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Partly to blame? Yes, I will agree. He knew TK was coming. But alot of Hab fans seem to think TK did nothing wrong and it's all MVR's fault. TK when he started to chase him down, the whole time, was planning to hit him. No way he can beat him to the puck, he strictly went for the body. He lined him up to hit him while his back was turned. MVR turned for a quick second and turned back. It was a split second that he turned about a 10 degree angle.

But both guys are atleast partly to blame, 1 misses 4-6 weeks and 1 misses 3 games.
I know it sucks for you guys but it always been like that.

I agree that both of the player have their part of responsabilty on that play but i think its normal that TKO was planning to hit him at the faceoff circle. He's 4th liner, his job is to forecheck and finish his check when he had the chance so its normal that he plan to hit the defenseman with the puck on the corner. Not only VR changes direction at the last moment, but he stop at 3 feets from the board, that gave TKO last time to react and a collision was inevitable.

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11-11-2008, 11:47 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
Interesting idea by Ron Wilson from today's Toronto Sun - Link to complete article



Not a bad idea, not surprisingly he didn't feel the need to vocalize this pearl of wisdom when Hollweg was suspended.
I totally agree with Wilson.

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11-11-2008, 12:01 PM
  #155
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I totally agree with Wilson.
I think the plan has some merit, but I also agree with Quiet Robert that the PA and agents would fight this tooth and nail.

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11-11-2008, 12:14 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by habhob View Post
It was more like the last 10th of a second. Stupid move on Van Ryn's part.
Wilson's suggestion is a bit far-fetched and it would really penalize the teams who have less depth, thus going against seeked team parity which is always desirable marketingwise.

I think the NHL should instead re-allow a certain degree of interference by the other dman to protect his teammate as it was the case in the past. Several forwards today are in the 6'3 225lbs or more bracket and they have quite a head of steam when they finish their forechecks on opposing dmen.

It's easy to say a player should never present his back to an opponent but it does happen. They sometimes have little reaction time, get confused and take the wrong decision. I doubt Van Ryn offered his back to Kosto to send him to the box for 5 minutes. This is not serious.

Even a big guy like Mike Komisarek who took big forechecks from Lucic and Thornton the way it's written in the book in last spring playoffs, was hurt quite seriously just the same and was more or less finished for the rest of the playoffs.

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11-11-2008, 12:30 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I totally agree with Wilson.
Wilson's point makes some sense, but the hypocrisy surrounding the comment is overwhelming.

Wilson coaches Hollweg, a guy that has been suspended twice this season for checking from behind. If anybody cares about protecting the NHL players, it's not the coach who still chooses to pencil Hollweg into his line-up after checking from behind suspensions in back-to-back games played.

The Kostopolous hit would have happened regardless of what the possible penalties were. It was unfortunate, but unforeseeable given Kosto's track record as a clean player. There's no possible way Carbo could have seen this coming.

However, in dressing Hollweg, Wilson is accepting the fact that he is playing one of the most reckless and dangerous players in the game. In the 20 or so games he's coached the Leafs, he's seen this guy get suspended twice for hits from behind, yet still chooses to dress him. Wilson is putting the other team's players at risk every game he dresses Hollweg. When Hollweg seriously injures a player, I hope that Wilson has the balls to admit that it was partially his fault, and calls for the league to penalize his whole team and not just Hollweg.

Even though it's an OK idea, I can't get by the hypocrisy of that comment. He masks it behind the appearance of concern for the players, but he's just whining because it negatively affected his team this time. If there's any team in the NHL that has shown nonchalance towards dangerous and reckless play, it's the Leafs under Wilson for their continuing to play Hollweg. Even if the ideas he says makes sense, the context in which Wilson expresses them makes him look like an idiot.

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11-11-2008, 12:37 PM
  #158
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See, the difference is that Ryan Hollweg thinks Kostopolous' hits were way worse, and worth a 20 game suspension. And maybe he's right: is any player on any team a greater expert on dangerous hits from behind than Ryan Hollweg of the Toronto Maple Leafs?

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...5-ccd0a5334896

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11-11-2008, 12:46 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by skule123 View Post
See, the difference is that Ryan Hollweg thinks Kostopolous' hits were way worse, and worth a 20 game suspension. And maybe he's right: is any player on any team a greater expert on dangerous hits from behind than Ryan Hollweg of the Toronto Maple Leafs?

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...5-ccd0a5334896
"

That lame organization just proves it's self more lame every day. Can it get more embarrassing for the NHL to have such a joke of an organization as the so-called "center of hockey"?

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11-11-2008, 12:48 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
I think the plan has some merit, but I also agree with Quiet Robert that the PA and agents would fight this tooth and nail.
Why didn't Wilson propose this idea after Hollweg's suspension? I wonder.

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11-11-2008, 12:50 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Why didn't Wilson propose this idea after Hollweg's suspension? I wonder.
I mentioned that (derisively) in my original post regarding Wilson's proposal.

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11-11-2008, 12:51 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skule123 View Post
See, the difference is that Ryan Hollweg thinks Kostopolous' hits were way worse, and worth a 20 game suspension. And maybe he's right: is any player on any team a greater expert on dangerous hits from behind than Ryan Hollweg of the Toronto Maple Leafs?

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...5-ccd0a5334896
Wow. Hollweg's comments are ridiculous. The thing that bugs me most about them is he is saying if he had thrown the hit, the penalty would be harsher. He still doesn't realize that that is because he is a repeat offender. He flat out doesn't understand that he is a dangerous play, and thinks the NHL is just targeting him. With that mindset, he's going to repeat the same mistakes over again, and the Leafs, the NHL, and the sport of hockey in general will look terrible when he seriously injures someone.

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11-11-2008, 12:51 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle_Odelein View Post
Wilson's point makes some sense, but the hypocrisy surrounding the comment is overwhelming.

Wilson coaches Hollweg, a guy that has been suspended twice this season for checking from behind. If anybody cares about protecting the NHL players, it's not the coach who still chooses to pencil Hollweg into his line-up after checking from behind suspensions in back-to-back games played.

The Kostopolous hit would have happened regardless of what the possible penalties were. It was unfortunate, but unforeseeable given Kosto's track record as a clean player. There's no possible way Carbo could have seen this coming.

However, in dressing Hollweg, Wilson is accepting the fact that he is playing one of the most reckless and dangerous players in the game. In the 20 or so games he's coached the Leafs, he's seen this guy get suspended twice for hits from behind, yet still chooses to dress him. Wilson is putting the other team's players at risk every game he dresses Hollweg. When Hollweg seriously injures a player, I hope that Wilson has the balls to admit that it was partially his fault, and calls for the league to penalize his whole team and not just Hollweg.

Even though it's an OK idea, I can't get by the hypocrisy of that comment. He masks it behind the appearance of concern for the players, but he's just whining because it negatively affected his team this time. If there's any team in the NHL that has shown nonchalance towards dangerous and reckless play, it's the Leafs under Wilson for their continuing to play Hollweg. Even if the ideas he says makes sense, the context in which Wilson expresses them makes him look like an idiot.
You have a good point Lyle, but at the same time, it was Fletcher who signed Hollweg, not Wilson. Maybe Wilson in reality loathes Hollweg, but knows he has to play him because was signed by his boss just a couple of short months ago. Even though you and I and Wilson and everybody knows Hollweg is a dangerous idiot, he can't just bench him for the rest of his contract.

Hollweg's comments, however, were just stupid. "I would have got 20 games for that". Well maybe that's because you've been suspended for it like fifteen times already?

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11-11-2008, 12:53 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Why didn't Wilson propose this idea after Hollweg's suspension? I wonder.
The man is supporting his team and his players, like any coach should. His suggestion, albeit far-fetched, is to deter players from making these hits. If you think Wilson didnt have a problem with Hollweg's hits, you are wrong. He did, and expressed it publicly as well. There is no hypocrisy here.

I thought the suspension would be one game, then in the article I read he was repeat offender. Which like Hollweg, gets you 3 games the 2nd time around. It is fair in comparison to other suspensions. You guys can defend the hit all you want stating he turned. But Van Ryn did not turn all that much, he was making a play, and his back was to Kostopolous the whole time, and Kostopolous knew he was going to play the puck. He should have let up, and now the league has disciplined him. Thats that. TK is not a dirty player, and nobody on our end is calling for his head. Its an unfortunate incident, and the punishment is being discussed because these incidents keep happening, players keep getting hurt, not because it has anything to do with the Habs.

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11-11-2008, 12:53 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
"

That lame organization just proves it's self more lame every day. Can it get more embarrassing for the NHL to have such a joke of an organization as the so-called "center of hockey"?
Not once have I seen a Leaf fan nor Wilson nor Fletcher defend Hollweg's behaviour.

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11-11-2008, 12:54 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Roo View Post
The man is supporting his team and his players, like any coach should. His suggestion, albeit far-fetched, is to deter players from making these hits. If you think Wilson didnt have a problem with Hollweg's hits, you are wrong. He did, and expressed it publicly as well. There is no hypocrisy here.
The hypocrisy is in the timing of the comments not the content.

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11-11-2008, 12:56 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
The hypocrisy is in the timing of the comments not the content.
You're not letting anything get by. You've got tough nuts to crack, I'll give you that.

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11-11-2008, 01:00 PM
  #168
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The hypocrisy is in the timing of the comments not the content.
I saw the press conference and it was basically Wilson thinking out loud while the reporters kept pressing the issue with multiple questions about the incident.

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11-11-2008, 01:02 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
The hypocrisy is in the timing of the comments not the content.
Comments came at a time when his own player got hurt. What coach in this league will request his own player be out for so long? Will GC do that? Didn't think so. He's doing his job.

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11-11-2008, 01:04 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Why didn't Wilson propose this idea after Hollweg's suspension? I wonder.
+1, I am with you on that.

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11-11-2008, 01:05 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Roo View Post
Comments came at a time when his own player got hurt. What coach in this league will request his own player be out for so long? Will GC do that? Didn't think so. He's doing his job.
Exactly. He's being hypocritical.

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11-11-2008, 01:09 PM
  #172
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Unpopular opinion below....

My 2 cents, showing your back to an opposing player is a tactic that leads to one of two things, a forechecker backing off, or the forechecker getting a penalty.

The puck carrier knows this. He takes that chance. Sometimes you lose. Sorry.

Why the puck carrier does not take the puck at an angle and exit with speed, or slow down and time his way to the boards with the forechecker is because he knows it is an advantage for his team. I think it is dishonest.

Like diving is a part of the game I do not approve of, neither is knowingly turning your back on a rushing forechecker in the hopes of drawing a penalty.

I feel bad for the fact that the players get hurt, but they asked for it, they knowingly put themselves in harm's way.

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11-11-2008, 01:12 PM
  #173
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My 2 cents, showing your back to an opposing player is a tactic that leads to one of two things, a forechecker backing off, or the forechecker getting a penalty.

The puck carrier knows this. He takes that chance. Sometimes you lose. Sorry.

Why the puck carrier does not take the puck at an angle and exit with speed, or slow down and time his way to the boards with the forechecker is because he knows it is an advantage for his team. I think it is dishonest.

Like diving is a part of the game I do not approve of, neither is knowingly turning your back on a rushing forechecker in the hopes of drawing a penalty.

I feel bad for the fact that the players get hurt, but they asked for it, they knowingly put themselves in harm's way.
He didn't purposely go face-first into the boards. You risk being paralized for a penalty? I doubt it.


Last edited by Squiffy: 11-11-2008 at 01:24 PM.
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11-11-2008, 01:13 PM
  #174
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If the headshake smilie could be embodied/personified in a single quote, this would be it.

Quote:
Ryan Hollweg has been suspended a combined five games this season for repeated hitting from behind penalties. But the Leafs forward believes Kotsopoulos should receive a much harsher punishment.

"I would have had a 20-game suspension for sure," said Hollweg. "So hopefully the league takes the right actions. I don't think mine were as bad as that one."

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11-11-2008, 01:15 PM
  #175
LyleOdelein
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Comments came at a time when his own player got hurt. What coach in this league will request his own player be out for so long? Will GC do that? Didn't think so. He's doing his job.
He's not just "doing his job". His job is to coach his team and comment on the game to the media afterwards, not propose rule changes to the league when one of his players gets hurt. Expressing his anger or disappointment is within the realm of a normal coach response to this situation, but calling for a change in the NHL suspension policy is not his job.

He looks hypocritical, because he's calling for teams to be disciplined for this type of hit by a player. The team he coaches, has a player that has already been suspended twice for this type of hit. He, as the coach, is deciding to continue to play this reckless player. Yet, only immediately after his own team suffers an injury on a reckless hit, he starts proposing rule changes to weed this activity out of the game. That is hypocrisy.

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