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Steve Downie

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:40 PM
  #1
TheKingSlayer
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Steve Downie

Not sure what the general opinion is with regards to the Matt Carle/Philly trade, but the fact that Steve Downie was involved in the trade intrigues me.... Is Tampa thinking that if they can get him tamed that he could be a steal? Do they think that Gary Roberts and Mark Recchi could mold him into a more respectful Sean Avery???

Looking for the insight coming from the brightest minds!! Have at'er boys and girls!!

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11-10-2008, 06:45 PM
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It's not about being "tamed" really. It's not like this guy is out there every night slashing everyone that skates by him. He just needs to learn to be disciplined in all aspects of the game. If he does that and improve his skating he'll be pretty good.

But there are rumors that for whatever reason he was kind of uncoachable and a little wild on the bench AND off the ice for a lot of the coaches and players.

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Old
11-10-2008, 06:58 PM
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Let Tocchet mentor him and shee what he becomes.


(Now go ahead and post your lame gambling jokes)

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11-10-2008, 07:08 PM
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TheKingSlayer
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I would seriously like to know if he can become a steal though, because I remember watching him play at the WJC and when he was on his game, he was amazing!! So if someone can straighten him up then I think he can become a real good piece fixing Tampa's troubles

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11-10-2008, 07:22 PM
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I'm still kinda mad over this trade, but I am starting to like Carle and I really liked him in SJ. I'm gonna miss Downie and even Eminger a little. Because they both had potential. Downie is never gonna be that guy who scores a lot of goals. He has the potential to be a third line checker who chips in goals with an average of 40 points a year. He just needs to improve his skating a bit and he needs a coach that is at least semi-competent and won't bench him every time he takes a penalty or is called offsides. Keep him in the AHL for the year, bring him up next year and let him play. He's gonna end up being a good player, not great, but good if everything goes well.

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:26 PM
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i think once downie settles abit he will be a great hockey player for years to come... i wish the leafs made a pitch for him with all their D-men

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Old
11-10-2008, 07:37 PM
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Downie's numbers in juniors are very similar to Darcy Tucker's. I imagine he will top out as a poor man's version of him. A regular 40-45 points and 100+ PIM kind of guy.

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11-10-2008, 08:53 PM
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Downie is going to be a great player for TB. Most people have never really seen him play and think he is some wild kid running around slashing people's necks. The truth is, he plays hard...as hard as he possibly can; and if you hit him, he's going to go hit you back. If you do anything remotely dirty, or questionable, he'll punch you in the face. He's got a bit of an anger problem but it's not like he's constantly trying to hurt people.

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Old
11-10-2008, 09:07 PM
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I don't think tamed is the right direction for Downie, in fact I think he needs to be unleashed. Steve was playing scared in Philadelphia due to the coaching staff and a young player simply can't succeed like that. Downie is at his best when he's playing on the edge and he hasn't really done that since his suspension.

I think he'll be very very good in time, if given the chance. I think he can be a 20-35-55 guy in the right situation, he really has very good vision and he's great in the corners.

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11-10-2008, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gags1288 View Post
I don't think tamed is the right direction for Downie, in fact I think he needs to be unleashed. Steve was playing scared in Philadelphia due to the coaching staff and a young player simply can't succeed like that. Downie is at his best when he's playing on the edge and he hasn't really done that since his suspension.

I think he'll be very very good in time, if given the chance. I think he can be a 20-35-55 guy in the right situation, he really has very good vision and he's great in the corners.
I think people overlook Downie's skill set because of the hit. Downie is a damned good hockey player and like someone said earlier I wished the Leafs made a pitch for him

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Old
11-10-2008, 09:18 PM
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He's a damn talented hockey player, and the way he is playing in the AHL makes me wonder about this move from a Philly point of view.

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Old
11-10-2008, 09:22 PM
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I was shocked when I heard Philly moved him. I can't say I followed him very closely but I always assumed he was part of their future core

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11-10-2008, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Bull View Post
He's a damn talented hockey player, and the way he is playing in the AHL makes me wonder about this move from a Philly point of view.
Downie excells along the boards and is a very good playmaker. Steve has two issues; size and speed. He's 5'10 185 lbs. at most. He's a below average skater.

Many players that lack either size or speed go on to have very effective NHL careers. Very few players that lack both go on to have a major impact in the NHL.

Downie could overcome both handicaps, but its not going to be easy. If he doesn't make it as an impact player in the NHL, it won't be because of his temper/behavior ... it will be a lack of foot speed.

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11-10-2008, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Let Tocchet mentor him and shee what he becomes.


(Now go ahead and post your lame gambling jokes)
I actually think Tocchet is the perfect guy for the job.

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Old
11-11-2008, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Let Tocchet mentor him and shee what he becomes.


(Now go ahead and post your lame gambling jokes)
I think putting Downie under Tocchet's tutelage is a pretty significant roll of the dice, don't you agree?


With that I've got that out of the way, I think sigma is right, Tocchet is the right guy for the job. Downie could end up being a very similar player, although probably less skilled at his peak than Tocchet was.

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Old
11-11-2008, 12:13 AM
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i think downie will be a very solid 3rd line checking role player with potential to score 20-25 goals in his most productive season and am happy that tampa did pick him up, and i do also think that downie is getting a little bit of a bad rap early in his career, im not saying that he is a future Byng winner by any means, but i still do think that with his suspension before his NHL career even started everyone is calling this guy dirty and over the edge player, and i dont want to bring the whole Mcmamond thing into this but i still feel it was too harsh of a punishment for someone who had had no previous troubles with the NHL, ridicule me if you want. But the fact is he is a player that is at his best when he skates that fine line and sometimes you dont come near it and sometimes you cross it, it happens in the game. i look forward to seeing what the lightening can do with the kid cuz he certainly is a good hockey player

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Old
11-11-2008, 01:09 AM
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I'm glad to hear all of the postings... but want I would really like to hear is what your opinions are on the fact that there are a lot of veteran players on the Tampa Bay team and if you think that they will do anything to help him, or do you think that Downie will just be used in the minors this year, and well Roberts and Recchi will most likely be done after this season.. so let's hear these thoughts.

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11-11-2008, 01:20 AM
  #18
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In the game against Tampa I actually heard the Tampa announcers compare Downie to Tocchet. Both are talented with the puck, but both also rake up scores of penalty minutes.

Anyways, Downie was probably moved on his own request. He and Stevens hate each other. The last two times usually went like this: Player gets injured, Holmgren petitions Stevens to give Downie another shot, Stevens reluctantly accepts, Downie gets called up, Downie plays well, Downie takes a bad penalty, Downie gets benched, Downie gets sent back down after the game ends.

Downie has been riding the elevator too much and was swimming somewhere between AHL and NHL. This is not an environment to develop a player.

Even though I like Carle, I would have rather kicked out Stevens than Downie to fix that situation.

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Old
11-11-2008, 06:57 AM
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The Flyers needed a dman so they moved someone they didnt really see as a huge part of this team's future. Flyers fans are bias against any trade involving Downie, I dont get it, they think hes way better than he is. Comparing him to tocchet or even darcy tucker is a stretch and thats being generous. Downie does well in the AHL because hes like every other fringe NHL player, he lacks the speed of an NHL players and when you lack the speed and size of the NHL you will look great in the AHL but have trouble in the NHL. Everyone on the flyers board cried and complained about gettign a dman upgrade and once we finally do everyone complains because its not the player they wanted to ship out. News flash, nobody wants our scrap prospects for their 2nd pairing dman.

All I see is proposals like...
Knuble(aging, declining veteran)
Kukk(7th dman on a trash blueline)
and Nodl(mid level prospect)

for

Team X's 23-25 year old 2nd pairing dman now with potential to be top pairing dman.

this isnt how the NHL works, you dont just package all your guys you dont want and pick up someone of value. The flyers sent a guy that was going to have a very rough time cracking the top 9 for the next 4-5 years for a guy who will have no problem crackign the top 4 dmen this year and in the coming years. For Downie to crack the teams top 9 forwards he will have to beat out not 1 but two of these guys...gagne, briere, Richards, Carter, hartnell, lupul, upshall, nodl, Giroux, JVR...all 10 of these guys would have been ahead of downie right now thats not even including guys like Metropolit and possible top draft picks in the next couple years.


Last edited by Juicy Couturier*: 11-11-2008 at 07:08 AM.
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Old
11-11-2008, 07:14 AM
  #20
LEIFey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
The Flyers needed a dman so they moved someone they didnt really see as a huge part of this team's future. Flyers fans are bias against any trade involving Downie, I dont get it, they think hes way better than he is. Comparing him to tocchet or even darcy tucker is a stretch and thats being generous. Downie does well in the AHL because hes like every other fringe NHL player, he lacks the speed of an NHL players and when you lack the speed and size of the NHL you will look great in the AHL but have trouble in the NHL. Everyone on the flyers board cried and complained about gettign a dman upgrade and once we finally do everyone complains because its not the player they wanted to ship out. News flash, nobody wants our scrap prospects for their 2nd pairing dman.

All I see is proposals like...
Knuble(aging, declining veteran)
Kukk(7th dman on a trash blueline)
and Nodl(mid level prospect)

for

Team X's 23-25 year old 2nd pairing dman now with potential to be top pairing dman.

this isnt how the NHL works, you dont just package all your guys you dont want and pick up someone of value. The flyers sent a guy that was going to have a very rough time cracking the top 9 for the next 4-5 years for a guy who will have no problem crackign the top 4 dmen this year and in the coming years. For Downie to crack the teams top 9 forwards he will have to beat out not 1 but two of these guys...gagne, briere, Richards, Carter, hartnell, lupul, upshall, nodl, Giroux, JVR...all 10 of these guys would have been ahead of downie right now thats not even including guys like Metropolit and possible top draft picks in the next couple years.
shhh, everyone wants our scraps. don't spoil this for me.

i'm disappointed we traded downie, since he was just a favorite of mine. hopefully carle plays well enough to dull the pain

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Old
11-11-2008, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
In the game against Tampa I actually heard the Tampa announcers compare Downie to Tocchet. Both are talented with the puck, but both also rake up scores of penalty minutes.
While, often compared to Tocchet, they really aren't similar players at all, other than their aggressive play. At the time Tocchet was a big stong player, Downie has below average size. Tocchet was definitely a goal scorer first, and didn't become much of a playmaker into well into his career. Downie is much more playmaker than goal scorer.

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Old
11-11-2008, 07:31 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
shhh, everyone wants our scraps. don't spoil this for me.

i'm disappointed we traded downie, since he was just a favorite of mine. hopefully carle plays well enough to dull the pain
I think Carle will be fine if he isnt relied on to be "the guy" like they started trying to dow ith him in SJ and they tried this year with him in Tampa. Now that he can sit behind the likes of Timonen and Coburn and just play his game I think he will be fine as a #4 especially if Parent developes into the shutdown guy we're hoping for. This could be a huge steal for the flyers, the upside of Carle is much higher than Eminger and Downie combined.

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Old
11-11-2008, 08:03 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I think Carle will be fine if he isnt relied on to be "the guy" like they started trying to dow ith him in SJ and they tried this year with him in Tampa. Now that he can sit behind the likes of Timonen and Coburn and just play his game I think he will be fine as a #4 especially if Parent developes into the shutdown guy we're hoping for. This could be a huge steal for the flyers, the upside of Carle is much higher than Eminger and Downie combined.
from what i hear, he has chemistry with sbisa, which is promising. i'm optimistic about carle in philly, but i've been disappointed before. i'll be happier if carle can keep up his game for 15-20 games.

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Old
11-11-2008, 10:06 AM
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I have mixed feelings of the recent trade. At first I was glad to hear about Downie going because I felt he held the team back in key situations, like the conference championship last year. But at the same time I thought he had a lot of potential just needed to work on his skating.

Glad to see Eminger go though.

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Old
11-11-2008, 10:26 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
from what i hear, he has chemistry with sbisa, which is promising. i'm optimistic about carle in philly, but i've been disappointed before. i'll be happier if carle can keep up his game for 15-20 games.
Chemistry isn't made in one game.

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