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Neck guard mandate

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Old
11-19-2008, 06:13 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
only benders wear neckguards.......kids a bender.


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Old
11-19-2008, 06:23 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
Because the prevention measures can be very uncomfortable and can cause injuries in much more common incidents. If you wear one that immobilizes your neck, you're at a much more significant rist for concussions and such being checked. Think of it this way: If you lock your neck in place and I take you and slam you headfirst into the boards. Your neck does not move, so your head does not. That restriction of movement forces your head to take all of the force of an impact, which will jostle your brain around more. You also run a higher risk of cracking your skull for the exact same reason.

A stiff guard with plastic inserts and such is a bad idea if you're getting checked or in collisions accidentally. If you're a goalie it's fine.

However, the more flexible ones like the one in the undershirt don't have that risk. But traditional type that most people will probably use is not worth it.

That's the reason though. It prevents a freak accident, but if you choose the wrong type it increases risk in other areas.

What kind of neckguards have plastic in them? Every one I've had since I've been 7 has been flexible and fine.

If you can't move your neck with a neckguard then you are wearing it wrong. There is no way a neckguard can affect your head movement if worn properly.

Where exactly are you getting your "injury analysis" from anyways? I have never heard of any of this happening.

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11-19-2008, 07:21 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
What kind of neckguards have plastic in them? Every one I've had since I've been 7 has been flexible and fine.

If you can't move your neck with a neckguard then you are wearing it wrong. There is no way a neckguard can affect your head movement if worn properly.

Where exactly are you getting your "injury analysis" from anyways? I have never heard of any of this happening.
I saw a few articles a little while back- I guess they were wrong on how neckguards are made, but even a flexible neckguard could impair movement. As for how it would injure you, it's basic physics- momentum in various directions.

It's not how flexible the material is normally, it's how flexible it is pressed against your neck. Looking at a few online, you're right, they don't have plastic, but they are ballistic nylon. That stuff is the same stuff a lot of bag straps are made up, take off the strap from your laptop bag and wrap it around your neck to the point where it's pretty snug. Now try snapping your head back. It won't move nearly as much. That's the action that will save your brain if you're being accelerated into the boards face first because it allows the brain to accelerate over a longer period of time, which will prevent it from slamming into your skull.
The neckguard won't be as extreme as that, but it gives you more of an extreme case to see what I'm talking about.

This would only be a problem on neckguards like the itech or the A&R which has an adjustable Velcro closure or a stiff back, making it stiff and restricting your neck movement. The CCM and Easton ones I see on hockeymonkey take it into account- what looks to be a narrower flimsy elastic closure in the back.

How significant it is I don't know, and nobody does. The real problem is that we don't have any data. But if you stiffen the neck, it's not a good thing. What level of play it would take for the difference to manifest itself, I don't know. They're probalby safe for most all players at most all levels. But personally I'll take the devil I know for the devil I don't.

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11-19-2008, 07:29 PM
  #29
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Always wore one doesn't really bother me, it's good to see you guys getting it mandated.

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11-19-2008, 07:32 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
I saw a few articles a little while back- I guess they were wrong on how neckguards are made, but even a flexible neckguard could impair movement. As for how it would injure you, it's basic physics- momentum in various directions.

It's not how flexible the material is normally, it's how flexible it is pressed against your neck. Looking at a few online, you're right, they don't have plastic, but they are ballistic nylon. That stuff is the same stuff a lot of bag straps are made up, take off the strap from your laptop bag and wrap it around your neck to the point where it's pretty snug. Now try snapping your head back. It won't move nearly as much. That's the action that will save your brain if you're being accelerated into the boards face first because it allows the brain to accelerate over a longer period of time, which will prevent it from slamming into your skull.
The neckguard won't be as extreme as that, but it gives you more of an extreme case to see what I'm talking about.

This would only be a problem on neckguards like the itech or the A&R which has an adjustable Velcro closure or a stiff back, making it stiff and restricting your neck movement. The CCM and Easton ones I see on hockeymonkey take it into account- what looks to be a narrower flimsy elastic closure in the back.

How significant it is I don't know, and nobody does. The real problem is that we don't have any data. But if you stiffen the neck, it's not a good thing. What level of play it would take for the difference to manifest itself, I don't know. They're probalby safe for most all players at most all levels. But personally I'll take the devil I know for the devil I don't.
There is a simple solution for that. Bend the neckguard so it flexes at any points of resistance. You fold the velcro over and it will easily bend with enought going back and forth.

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Old
11-19-2008, 07:45 PM
  #31
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I guess that would work for the most part. Still stiffens it up though, any resistance there is more then none. Still won't wear one until I have to though.

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11-19-2008, 09:13 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
There is a simple solution for that. Bend the neckguard so it flexes at any points of resistance. You fold the velcro over and it will easily bend with enought going back and forth.
Well, the neck guards from Maltese are made with medical gel. When you put one on, they are so comfortable you will not know you have it on. You might even find yourself check to see if you have it on.

The Maltese neck guard with medical gel is so flexable, the gel feels and acts...spongy. Plus, you can rinse it off after every use and let it dry. If you ever have a problem with it, the manufacture would probably replace it for free. That's how good they are and that's good the manufacture stands behind their product.

I know the manufacture and his main goal it to protect players. It is a first class company. I wish more companies were like him!

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11-20-2008, 08:29 PM
  #33
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CPT,

Your conclusions regarding neck guards of the nature you speak of is off base. Restricting the ability of the cervical area of the spine to flex places undue pressures at the point where the restriction ends. THIS IS NOT REALATED TO CONCUSSION INJURIES. Example... your head becomes a PEZ dispenser. With severe restriction of the neck with out immobilization of the head, impact to the head can cause serious spinal injury. The closer to the head that cervical spine movement is restricted the greater the risk of injury to the cervical area of the spine. Your also likely to sustain injury to the Trapezius or Splenius Cervicic muscles as they become trapped between the proverbial "rock and a hard place".

This type of injury happens to many motorcycle accident victims. With head movement backward, the back bottom edge of the helmet can act like a lever, causing separation/injury at C1 and C2. For those who are also into football, you can see the gear added to the shoudlers that some players wear. It is intended to prevent these types of "whiplash" (for want of a better word) injuries. Note that hockey helmets are designed with this in mind and do not extend below the occipital bone of the skull. If it does then its the wrong size

No collar manufactured for hockey creates this risk on its own. NONE can be worn tightly enough unless one were to tape them like a wrist or ankle. To do so would severely restrict breathing well before significant restriction of the cervical area happened.

Concussions are more commonplace to direct head impact and is not mitigated by the distance the head as a whole travels before that impact. It is the force/speed of the impact. When the skull accelerates/decelerates faster than the ability of the cerebrospinal fluid to cushion it results in concussion. Severeity is also related to the direction that the blow comes from and which area of the brain is damaged. A neck guard, regardless of its amount of restricting the cervical movement, is not going to INCREASE nor DECREASE your risk or level of injury in relation to concussions. It will create a whole different set of issues.

Seriously, even the CCM 820...$7.00...can save your life and will not increase the risk of any other type of injury. These are the most common neck wear found in USA Youth Hockey. No one should be playing the ice version of the game with out at least that simple level of protection.


Last edited by MikeD: 11-20-2008 at 08:39 PM.
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Old
11-20-2008, 08:35 PM
  #34
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After reading various neck guard related topics, I still have one question: Headcoach, what's your commission percentage from Maltese?

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Old
11-21-2008, 10:16 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twi View Post
After reading various neck guard related topics, I still have one question: Headcoach, what's your commission percentage from Maltese?
Believe it or not, I haven't made a dime. I have bought 4 neck guards from him, one for me and several for customers. At no time, did I recieve commission on those purchases.

It just hard to find a product out there in the market place that actullly does what it says it will do. Plus, the product is made here in America. Not in Mexico or China.

They are not sitting on a shelf waiting to be shipped to you. They are custom made to fit your neck.

Let me ask this....

If you wanted to have fun and protect yourself, who go out and buy the best hockey equipment out there. Why not just go out and buy low end hockey equipment? Why do people go out there and buy high end equipment?

You are probably saying right now...for better protection!

Well, for the love of god, why would someone go out and spend that kind of money on equipment to protect themselves and their child, and then go out and get a $7.00 neck protector!

Oh i get it. They don't have the money because they spent all that money on a $125.00 stick. A stick that they kid can't even use because he's not old enought to make the thing work for him. But my boy's got the best!

Why not protect your kids life. Oh, I forgot! It can happen to me or my child VooDoo bull***t. Then when the kids neck get cut and the kid bleeds out on the ice or in the dressing room, then the parents going to say....why me, dear lord...why me?

And when the parents get to the point in their life when they meet the maker, he going to say..."I sent you those warning signs in that forum, why didn't you listen?"


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Old
11-21-2008, 01:32 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD View Post
CPT,

Your conclusions regarding neck guards of the nature you speak of is off base. Restricting the ability of the cervical area of the spine to flex places undue pressures at the point where the restriction ends. THIS IS NOT REALATED TO CONCUSSION INJURIES. Example... your head becomes a PEZ dispenser. With severe restriction of the neck with out immobilization of the head, impact to the head can cause serious spinal injury. The closer to the head that cervical spine movement is restricted the greater the risk of injury to the cervical area of the spine. Your also likely to sustain injury to the Trapezius or Splenius Cervicic muscles as they become trapped between the proverbial "rock and a hard place".

This type of injury happens to many motorcycle accident victims. With head movement backward, the back bottom edge of the helmet can act like a lever, causing separation/injury at C1 and C2. For those who are also into football, you can see the gear added to the shoudlers that some players wear. It is intended to prevent these types of "whiplash" (for want of a better word) injuries. Note that hockey helmets are designed with this in mind and do not extend below the occipital bone of the skull. If it does then its the wrong size

No collar manufactured for hockey creates this risk on its own. NONE can be worn tightly enough unless one were to tape them like a wrist or ankle. To do so would severely restrict breathing well before significant restriction of the cervical area happened.

Concussions are more commonplace to direct head impact and is not mitigated by the distance the head as a whole travels before that impact. It is the force/speed of the impact. When the skull accelerates/decelerates faster than the ability of the cerebrospinal fluid to cushion it results in concussion. Severeity is also related to the direction that the blow comes from and which area of the brain is damaged. A neck guard, regardless of its amount of restricting the cervical movement, is not going to INCREASE nor DECREASE your risk or level of injury in relation to concussions. It will create a whole different set of issues.

Seriously, even the CCM 820...$7.00...can save your life and will not increase the risk of any other type of injury. These are the most common neck wear found in USA Youth Hockey. No one should be playing the ice version of the game with out at least that simple level of protection.
If I had the patience to draw it out in paint I would.

The Brain is surrounded by a fluid that slows it's movement around the skull cavity. This prevents the brain from hitting the skull for most impacts, which is what qualifies as a concussion.

Clear?

Okay, When you're being accelerated into the boards head first, your brain is going to accelerate until it hits the boards.

Now say you have no neckguard restricting neck movement. Your head snaps back. Your brain's acceleration lags behind that of your body as an overall system since the brain fluid delays and reduces the reaction. By snapping your head back, your brain never accelerates as much as your body does. Basically, the neck movement allows energy to exit the system.

Now say you're wearing a neckguard. We'll use an idealized system here, which just means we make things simple to make the point and to make discussion easy. Doing this will assume your neckguard makes your neck stiff. Yes, different designs work differently, but the ones I've seen look like they fit pretty snug- otherwise they would slip around and be really distracting, besides allowing things to get underneath them, ect.

So We'll pretend the neck is perfectly stiff for now to get an extreme.

In this case, your brain accelerates normally and that force and speed is all directly transferred into the brain's motion.
The thing previously is that it's determined by force and speed yes, but you had to overcome a certain amount of energy loss to the system. What stiffening the neck guard does is take away one of those avenues for energy loss. It's easy to overlook because you just assume energy loss of a certain percentage when discussing energy transfer. Thing is if you change conditions, that percentage very well may change.

And Spinal injuries- good point. Those need to looked at too.


But really, I'm not completely against them. I just think that we need a lot more data on how well they work and what the dangers really are and how significant they are before we require them. That's elevated that they only protect against a freak accident- most don't provide impact protection, just slash protection.

Requiring helmets- Concussions are routine. Lessing impacts to the head to protect them seems wise. Helmets don't cause any negative effects to other injuries.

Requiring Visors- Injuries to the face and eyes are less common, but they do happen. Don't have any effects on other injuries unless the helmet is worn improperly and the visor is shoved into your face. Risk/ Reward here is pretty obvious.

Requiring Neckguards- Neck lacerations are incredibly rare, despite players falling on the ice and being skated around, jumped over... While very dangerous injuries, There are not yet well understood risks with some designs. In my mind, the risks outweigh the benefits simply because I have virtually zero expected benefit. in the NHL, 2 incidents in nearly 100 years out of how many players? The risk of a laceration is virtually 0.

In order for me to accept a risk reward comparison, the Risk must be virtually 0 to be equal or less then the reward.

Right now we have no clue as to what the risk is. It could be high, it could be very, very low in reality. But I have yet to see a convincing argument that shows the risk is negligible, and I won't be convinced until I have hard data.

People complain when the FDA assumes a product is safe and approves it before it's fully tested, why the hell does that standard not apply here?

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11-21-2008, 02:13 PM
  #37
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i just had to pick on up for my lil bro while i was at open skate and he was in school. his ad/coach said the same thing

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11-21-2008, 02:49 PM
  #38
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just found out from my high school coach that we have to wear them, never worn one gonna be mad gay

edit: what high school do you go to i might be playing you

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Old
11-21-2008, 03:42 PM
  #39
Philip Maltese
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All of you guys from north Jersey who have heard the same thing from their coach...raise your hands.

A couple days ago I called 18 schools in north Jersey, all of whom supposedly issuing this mandate. I spoke to maybe 3 warm bodies. If you guys need to wear a neck guard, then consider what you've read..it's not hype.

The reason you don't currently wear one is they're too uncomfortable, stiff, restrict head movement and are hot. Mine is none of those things and it addresses both lacerations and BFT (Blunt Force Trauma) which happens way more frequently.

Anyone play for Randolph? One player on that team got his own...twice.

Like was mentioned, we do team orders and the discount is $10 off each Collar. The height is 2" (in most cases), not 2" thick.

Headcoach has been a staunch supporter of the idea and has become convinced as a result of seeing and using them himself.

He also let me put gel in his player's helmet and now has that firsthand knowledge. regarding player helmets...the ones using that concrete like black foam, be careful not to get struck in the head or you might need stitches. I've seen it happen to two pros in the same year.

I'm around, so if anyone has any questions, they can be directed toward me.

And thanks to Mike Davis, possibly my longest loyal customer, for taking the trouble to impart good information about the whole neck guard issue.

Phil Maltese

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Old
11-21-2008, 05:44 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
If I had the patience to draw it out in paint I would.

The Brain is surrounded by a fluid that slows it's movement around the skull cavity. This prevents the brain from hitting the skull for most impacts, which is what qualifies as a concussion.

Clear?

Okay, When you're being accelerated into the boards head first, your brain is going to accelerate until it hits the boards.

Now say you have no neckguard restricting neck movement. Your head snaps back. Your brain's acceleration lags behind that of your body as an overall system since the brain fluid delays and reduces the reaction. By snapping your head back, your brain never accelerates as much as your body does. Basically, the neck movement allows energy to exit the system.

Now say you're wearing a neckguard. We'll use an idealized system here, which just means we make things simple to make the point and to make discussion easy. Doing this will assume your neckguard makes your neck stiff. Yes, different designs work differently, but the ones I've seen look like they fit pretty snug- otherwise they would slip around and be really distracting, besides allowing things to get underneath them, ect.

So We'll pretend the neck is perfectly stiff for now to get an extreme.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
But really, I'm not completely against them. I just think that we need a lot more data on how well they work and what the dangers really are and how significant they are before we require them. That's elevated that they only protect against a freak accident- most don't provide impact protection, just slash protection.
Neck guards have been mandated and certified for several dacades north of the border. How much more data is needed? While waiting for data collection, a young life may be lost. A skate blade making contact with a players neck is NOT a freak accident. Its an accident that WILL HAPPEN...HAS HAPPENED. It is a loss of life that will get the powers that be to get their head out of the sand. It is with NO THANKS to USA hockey and other nay says such as yourself that my youngest son is probably still alive today.




You can pretend all you like...its NOT true even in the most marginal reasonable expectation. No neck guard available restricts the movement of the neck in the manner you describe. They simply do not function in that manner. Your supposition also would require that the collision be FROM BEHIND and the player being struck to be STATIONARY. Your stretching at this beyond all reasonable expectations. Its a delusion.....in your scenario the player would have a head that was separated from the neck. Concussion would be the least of the concern.

And by the way, as soon as the head rebounds, since this is a function of the muscles I already mentioned before, as soon as the head is again moving forward, it is now traveling FASTER than the body, catching up. Should the head be still rebounding forward, the head will strike the boards with MORE force than had it never "lagged" in the first place. It would be like the player adding a head butt to the boards at the moment of impact!

There is no need to explain in detail. I do have a medical background as a former US Army Combat Medic and Med lab Tech(alternate MOS). It is obvious from your response that you did not bother to read all of my post.


Phil,
When that player dropped to the ice and intentionally slid into my goalie son, driving the skate blade into his neck....well, with out your slash guard in play, I may have lost years on my life from the fear that may have come from seeing that happen and possibly lost my son. When he was driven 3 to 4 feet, skate to his neck, into the post and then the goal frame and him spinning around into the end boards, I never once felt fear or concern. I knew he would be uninjured. Wearing the guard myself, as a goalie, I understood its protective properties.

I only wished I had it on film. When all the motion stopped and he lay prone on the ice, head turned facing the end boards with a smile on his face....I was standing there behind the glass just an arms reach away, also smiling and unconcerned. My wife, up in the stands, also was unconcerned. EVERY OTHER SPECTATOR in that rink was stunned, sitting in silence, as staff from both benches hopped the boards, racing to him. It is because of your efforts and continued sacrifice in the name of safety, I strongly believe, that my son is alive and well today. The sigh of relief that went though that rink when he popped up to his skates was very audible. Had I NOT provided him with the Maltese slash guard...that thought, is what makes my heart skip a beat. It very well could have been an arms reach away and being helpless, unable to do anything but watch his life slip away. Ironically, not more than a few miles from the location of Malarchuks accident.

For those interested, the incident was reviewed by the league and considered to be so blatant and vicious, the player received a season suspension as a squirt minor! The Team staff for that game all stated that they thought for sure that the INEVITABLE had Happened and on their watch. They were expecting a SEVERE skate cut injury. They were amazed that he was unharmed. What was the Organizations answer to my question, two seasons prior, regarding neck protection requirements? USA does not mandate it and its not required. Thank god I was not of the same mind and that your product was available. He simply would not wear the other guards available, for the same reasons listed by others...too hot, uncomfortable.


FOR ANY GOALIE PARENT OUT THERE. That same guard I purchased for him as a squirt, he wore through to his now bantam major year. He outgrew it and is now wearing a Combo from Maltese. It is in great shape....It is available to any Squirt age goalie for the cost of shipping. May it protect them as well as it has my son these many many years....


Last edited by MikeD: 11-21-2008 at 06:21 PM.
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11-21-2008, 06:56 PM
  #41
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Quote:
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Seen them in use and not once have I seen a ref call it. On a few occasions when playing in Canada, refs have actually looked at and held my sons collar and mask(both not certified). they were impressed and turned a blind eye. The maltese collar is better than any BNQ certified on the market or any foam used in a mask or helmet. Any ref who WOULD call it is insane.

as for USA hockey....Many have held the mask, looked at the gel interior. 5 years and NONE have ever called out the illegal gear. The missing sticker means nothing when shown a far superior product.
If I had to guess - I would say it might be an insurance issue. BNQ certification is a standard. There are products out there that exceed the standard and there are products out there that are inferior to it. Same with any piece of equipment that is certified. They have to meet a minimum standard, but some go further.

Higher standards or not - if a coach asked a ref to look at a Maltese neckguard I think they'd have to call the illegal equipment penalty.

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11-21-2008, 06:57 PM
  #42
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when I started playing hockey.. oh say.. 19 years ago in Alberta you had to wear them...

I know I got a couple pucks / sticks to the throat as a kid that would have probably hurt had I not had a neckguard.

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11-21-2008, 10:54 PM
  #43
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I would never be able to play with a neck guard

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11-22-2008, 12:33 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Maltese View Post
All of you guys from north Jersey who have heard the same thing from their coach...raise your hands.

A couple days ago I called 18 schools in north Jersey, all of whom supposedly issuing this mandate. I spoke to maybe 3 warm bodies. If you guys need to wear a neck guard, then consider what you've read..it's not hype.

The reason you don't currently wear one is they're too uncomfortable, stiff, restrict head movement and are hot. Mine is none of those things and it addresses both lacerations and BFT (Blunt Force Trauma) which happens way more frequently.

Anyone play for Randolph? One player on that team got his own...twice.

Like was mentioned, we do team orders and the discount is $10 off each Collar. The height is 2" (in most cases), not 2" thick.

Headcoach has been a staunch supporter of the idea and has become convinced as a result of seeing and using them himself.

He also let me put gel in his player's helmet and now has that firsthand knowledge. regarding player helmets...the ones using that concrete like black foam, be careful not to get struck in the head or you might need stitches. I've seen it happen to two pros in the same year.

I'm around, so if anyone has any questions, they can be directed toward me.

And thanks to Mike Davis, possibly my longest loyal customer, for taking the trouble to impart good information about the whole neck guard issue.

Phil Maltese
Just a question, why not get your neck guards certified? They look and sound like a great product, but it's rather questionable why you haven't gone through certification. Just sayin'.

I always considered neck protection, but always shrugged it off. Maybe I'll give some a try. Following Headcoach's point, if I can justify a One90 stick, I think I can justify this. But Mr. Maltese has to do something about getting the product out their. It's an uncertified piece that isn't that popular, maybe donate a few to a league, get a couple of pro's to give them a try (maybe start with Zednik)? No one's just going to buy it because some people say it's better than certified pieces, the onus is on you to prove it/convey that.

EDIT: Maybe donate to a site or magazine or product site to have reviewed? At the bare minimum this and certification should be on your to do list.

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11-22-2008, 08:55 AM
  #45
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Help me out here. Are you a "NYRsincebirth", are you a Canadian or do you live in the U.K.?

Why I don't get my unit certified? Well, for one, the unnecessary expense at this time. My pockets aren't deep like a lot of the other manufacturers. I have to spend my money wisely. I used to attend trade shows, but the expense did not outweigh my return. BNQ is a Canadian cert that has some American followers in Connecticut. My country does not require such a certification. On the other hand I did shell out the money to have a goalie mask with my gel HECC certified and it passed on it's first try, so I am familiar with the process.

Yeah. I tried to contact Zednik and Bourque when they got cut. I received no replies. I did chat with Clint about the item in question and he was positive and willing and had insight. One can only go so far to entice players to try your gear. I will not, can not, offer them cash awards or material compensation for them to use my product.

Kevin Weekes has been wearing my Combo since he was a Hurricane. We just made a Combo for UND's freshman goalie.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have donated lots of product to pros and such and it just doesn't work that way. A guy I used to know said one smart thing in the time I knew him and that was, "if they want it, they will call you." I've found this to be true. I have a host of pro teams using my Lace-Bite Pads. You don't think I've tried to get them into other products??

I'd like to know who you are in this business. Are you someone that is indeed in this industry or are you a citizen that thinks he knows what he's talking about?

BNQ certification is a joke. Hecc certification uses antiquated testing and that's why masks and helmets have EPP foam in them. The lead head form has no sensory touch/feel. It wouldn't care if the "padding" in a mask or helmet was made from concrete! Yeah, it passed the drop test, but will you?

You should understand that I have been doing this for the past ten years and have put a lot of thought, time and energy into this, whereas you sit at your pc offering me advice and suggestions on what I should do.

It's your neck, right? Do with it what you will and don't judge me because you know nothing of my efforts or courses I've taken to get my product recognized in this industry.

Tell ya what! You front me the money and I'll get that all important BNQ certification. How's that sound? I think they call it, put up or shut up. Yeah, you talk of donations. Donate to the fund for BNQ certification if it's that important to you.

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11-22-2008, 09:42 AM
  #46
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cptjeff- Do you have any statistical analysis that backs up your assertions? If what you say is 100% correct then all equipment is dangerous and should not be worn since all of it inhibits movement in a way that could cause injury.

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11-22-2008, 11:23 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRSinceBirth View Post
Just a question, why not get your neck guards certified? They look and sound like a great product, but it's rather questionable why you haven't gone through certification. Just sayin'.
Dude, I know where you are coming from, I have asked him the same question. However, The money that it takes to get certification is...well, out there. Too much for the normal small businessman to absorb.

Phil and I have been in the hockey industry for about 10 years. Both of us are out to make it in the hockey world.

But when it cost $5,000 dollars for a 1/4 page ad in any hockey magazine, it just doesn't stand to reason or justify the cost of spending that kind of money for an ad, when you can find other ways to market your product to more people with less money.

For instance, did you know about this neck guard two weeks ago? If not, then we are getting the message across and promoting the product at the same time.

A lot of small businesses in the country rely on word of mouth advertising. That how they become the CCM's of the world. Then when we get to be that Nike/Bauer size, we can throw money away to pro's to market the product for us.

But for a small businessman, it hard to come up with the cash to give a pro $10,000 to wear the product. I'm pretty sure that when the pro who got his neck cut would have been wishing he was wearing that neck guard for FREE!

But, now that things have all calmed down, players forget what really happened and how this player almost lost his life. The only thing that saved him was that at his game, there were 30 doctors in the stand watching the game.

Here's a question for you. How many doctors will be in the stands for you game?

Certification....It has been product tested for over 10 years. Heck guards do not required certification here in the USA!

So let me ask you this next question.....

What you would rather have. A non-certified neck guard that will protect your neck from bleed out? Or,.....nothing?


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11-22-2008, 12:52 PM
  #48
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Do you not think that the sales are lower then they could/would be if it were certified?

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11-22-2008, 02:12 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante 71 View Post
I would never be able to play with a neck guard
With the right guard, you would play and not even notice its on. With the right guard, you might even play better with increased endurance and faster recovery time.

I know Phil doesnt get into the "performance enhansing" aspect that I feel the Gel offers. His stand point is about safety. Both in the helmet/mask and in the Collar, they can be chilled. Long Distance Runners have long used products that are worn around the neck that offer relief from heat. These products have been shown to improve a runners time and endurance during training. Wearing my Combo chilled, seems to improve my performance in the game. Heat is drawn away, improving my recovery time. I also feel that this relief from the heat retention of the C/A and mask also improves my mental performance during the game. One thing that is a fact is that I have been able to play longer into the spring and summer season directly because of these properties.

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11-22-2008, 02:18 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Schenn Him View Post

Higher standards or not - if a coach asked a ref to look at a Maltese neckguard I think they'd have to call the illegal equipment penalty.
A coach may only ask for a measurement or for instance, the USA Hockey, a banned item such as the ODB. The Certification of an item is not a call that a Coach may put to a Ref.

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