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Forsberg's trade value?

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Old
02-28-2004, 04:48 PM
  #1
Playmaker
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Forsberg's trade value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aonez
I think Forsberg has earned money during his NHL years so he wont be short of it in the rest of his life I wonder if he even would want salary form Modo. I think he will pay Modo instead
I know that you guys will probably consider this to be "crazy talk" fit for a sakic20...but if Forsberg really is leaving for Sweden next season...I'd want to trade him now...

His injury problems make me uncertain if he'll be fit for an entire run to the finals...and if he's leaving...why not get a good return for him?
I know that people will go (this is the year we're going to win it all), but we should be able to pick up some *very* nice talent, decently young but still skilled, to keep this team competitive even longer.

I know that most likely none of the Avs fans will agree with me, and that I'm presenting a horrible idea (most of them probably wouldn't want to part with Peter ever, and I wouldn't do it unless it was for his returning to Sweden).
But if we are losing him, I'd still like to get something in return for him.

So, what would be a fair offer?

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02-28-2004, 04:52 PM
  #2
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Well, let me be the first of what is sure to be a slew of Avs fans (and fans otherwise) who would say this is in fact a horrible idea.

Here's what you trade Forsberg for...a Stanley Cup. End of story. You trade Forsberg and you piss away your shot at the Cup...for what? A couple of good prospects? So you can be less mediocre in the future?

Its here and now for the Avs...to think otherwise is complete bunk.

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02-28-2004, 04:57 PM
  #3
Sakic19
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No way. First off, he's too valuable in the playoffs to just give away. Second, he's got a NTC. And third, he's given everything for this team, and I'd like to see them respect his wishes not to play for another NHL team.

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02-28-2004, 04:59 PM
  #4
dats-13
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and Floppa wouldn't get much unless he agrees to signing a contract with the team he's being traded to...(not even Sather is dumb enough to throw good youth for someone that will be on their team for a month if not less)

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02-28-2004, 05:00 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa
Well, let me be the first of what is sure to be a slew of Avs fans (and fans otherwise) who would say this is in fact a horrible idea.

Here's what you trade Forsberg for...a Stanley Cup. End of story. You trade Forsberg and you piss away your shot at the Cup...for what? A couple of good prospects? So you can be less mediocre in the future?

Its here and now for the Avs...to think otherwise is complete bunk.
What makes you think I'm giving up the idea of a Cup? I'm especially concerned with his health! If we can get a good return here for some quality players, it might improve our chances, not squander them.

How would you feel to have Forsberg go down with an injury in the third game of the first round, and be gone for the rest of the season?

That's the kind of scenario I'm worried about. Peter is constantly nagged by injuries now, it seems. If we can get some good players, I'd do it.

Let's just see if any offers roll in for a 30-year old injured center...I'd like to see what the offers would be like before I say I'd never trade him. I'm not one to go "he's untradeable!", unless I know that I can't find a good deal for him.

As to being less mediocre in the future? That's BS, in my opinion. If we can find a good deal, it might keep us competitive for years. We still have Morris, Tanguay, Hejduk, Aebischer...there's some decently young talent on the Avs, and a good deal might help keep this team good.

The question is whether it is worth keeping an often injured but high performing player who's leaving for Sweden in a couple of months, if you can get a good return on the market for the above mentioned player.

Best regards
Martin

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Old
02-28-2004, 05:03 PM
  #6
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Lacroix would become one of the worst GMs in the league if he were to trade Forsberg now. He has no trade value because he wont be traded.

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02-28-2004, 05:04 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakic19
No way. First off, he's too valuable in the playoffs to just give away. Second, he's got a NTC. And third, he's given everything for this team, and I'd like to see them respect his wishes not to play for another NHL team.
Wrong, under the current CBA a NTC is only allowed for players 31 years or older.
Forsberg wont be 31 before july 20th.

I ll look for the complete text from the CBA and post it later.

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02-28-2004, 05:08 PM
  #8
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This proposal is just ridiculous, would the Wings trade Lidstrom cause he could be headed back to Sweden ? NO !

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02-28-2004, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinkrantz
What makes you think I'm giving up the idea of a Cup? I'm especially concerned with his health! If we can get a good return here for some quality players, it might improve our chances, not squander them.

How would you feel to have Forsberg go down with an injury in the third game of the first round, and be gone for the rest of the season?

That's the kind of scenario I'm worried about. Peter is constantly nagged by injuries now, it seems. If we can get some good players, I'd do it.

Let's just see if any offers roll in for a 30-year old injured center...I'd like to see what the offers would be like before I say I'd never trade him. I'm not one to go "he's untradeable!", unless I know that I can't find a good deal for him.

As to being less mediocre in the future? That's BS, in my opinion. If we can find a good deal, it might keep us competitive for years. We still have Morris, Tanguay, Hejduk, Aebischer...there's some decently young talent on the Avs, and a good deal might help keep this team good.

The question is whether it is worth keeping an often injured but high performing player who's leaving for Sweden in a couple of months, if you can get a good return on the market for the above mentioned player.

Best regards
Martin
This team is built to win now. You 'risk' keeping Forsberg because he's the most dominant forward on this planet and the vital key to the Avs chance at winning a Cup. You don't destroy a year's worth of deals to try and maximize your chances only to throw off your biggest piece at the last second. It defies logic.

Thats not to mention the practical pitfalls of dealing Forsberg...

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02-28-2004, 05:09 PM
  #10
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Quote:
11.2. Individually Negotiated Limitations on Player Movement.

Contracts entered into on or after a player's 32nd birthday
(or his 31st birthday on or after June 30, 1998) may contain a
no-trade clause. Contracts containing a "no-trade" clause may be
entered into prior to the player's 32nd birthday (or his 31st
birthday on or after June 30, 1998), so long as the fixed term of
the contract containing the no-trade clause extends through the
player's 32nd birthday (or his 31st birthday on or after June 30,
1998) and the no-trade clause does not become effective until the
player reaches his 32nd birthday (or his 31st birthday on or
after June 30, 1998).
If the player is traded prior to the
no-trade clause taking effect, the clause does not bind the
acquiring Club. The acquiring Club may separately agree to a
no-trade clause.

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Old
02-28-2004, 05:12 PM
  #11
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Keeping in mind this thread is ridiculous, the only player that Forsberg could be traded for, IMO is Lidstrom. But that would require both Lacroix and Holland doing some seriously bad drugs.

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02-29-2004, 02:11 AM
  #12
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Imagine that: Forsberg gets dealt to another contender (which are the only teams in question), the Avs meet that team in the POs, and Forsberg scores a ton of points in that series. PL would be driven out of town with pitchforks and axes!

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02-29-2004, 03:15 AM
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Trading Forsberg is a horrible idea... the only teams who would be interested are teams that are going deep in the playoffs...Jersey, Philly, Detroit etc. Your not going to get a Elias, Pitkanen, Zetterberg for Forsberg. Colorado`s future looks very bleak right now they need forsberg to win them a cup because there aren`t going to be much in the future. Trading Forsberg would only insure that they don`t win the cup.

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02-29-2004, 03:38 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinkrantz
I know that you guys will probably consider this to be "crazy talk" fit for a sakic20...but if Forsberg really is leaving for Sweden next season...I'd want to trade him now...

His injury problems make me uncertain if he'll be fit for an entire run to the finals...and if he's leaving...why not get a good return for him?
I know that people will go (this is the year we're going to win it all), but we should be able to pick up some *very* nice talent, decently young but still skilled, to keep this team competitive even longer.

I know that most likely none of the Avs fans will agree with me, and that I'm presenting a horrible idea (most of them probably wouldn't want to part with Peter ever, and I wouldn't do it unless it was for his returning to Sweden).
But if we are losing him, I'd still like to get something in return for him.

So, what would be a fair offer?
Not much if he really has signed with A team in the Swedish Elite League.

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Old
02-29-2004, 03:42 AM
  #15
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close this thread...Colorado is not going to trade him...Its a pointless discussion...

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02-29-2004, 10:03 AM
  #16
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I don't think I have ever come across more people who don't, or choose not to read. The original poster was not asking about the validity or sensability of a Forsberg trade, he basically said it was an insane idea. He said "if Forsberg were to be traded, what is his value?"

For everyone who wants to show his or her hockey "knowledge" by shooting down the stupid proposal, let me say that everyone is very impressed. Perhaps you all can collectively open a consulting service that confused fantasy hockey team owners can contract to. I can imagine the conversations - "Hi, I own a fantasy team and am wondering if I should trade Forsberg for Huselius and a 5th." - "You IDIOT. FORSBERG IS UNTOUCHABLE. YOU SHOULD NOT EVEN BE CALLING. I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE EVEN SUGGESTING IT! WHO IS SCREENING MY CALLS TODAY?" You all could yell at your clients and charge them too. Win-win.

Otherwise, for the people who are interested in evaluating trading situations, real or *hypothetical*, then the thread can continue. The valuation of players in hypothetical situations is in and of itself a valuable and enjoyable thing for people obsessed with hockey and trades, as it appears many of us who hang out here are.

In vague terms, I think that fair value would have to be 2-3 times the best rental player deal to date. At a minimun something like 2 blue chips and 2 very good DPs. I am sure some of the more knowledgeable can suggest more concrete proposals.

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02-29-2004, 10:43 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dats-13
and Floppa wouldn't get much unless he agrees to signing a contract with the team he's being traded to...(not even Sather is dumb enough to throw good youth for someone that will be on their team for a month if not less)
Not really, remember the Oates trade??? That was a rental trade. The Zhamnov trade was rental trade. The blake trade was a rental trade........

You forget that at the deadline salaries mean nothing......Forsberg is one of the best playoff performers in the league....if not the best. He would command a lot of value, his UFA status is what makes him so appealing as well.

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02-29-2004, 02:34 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floop
I don't think I have ever come across more people who don't, or choose not to read. The original poster was not asking about the validity or sensability of a Forsberg trade, he basically said it was an insane idea. He said "if Forsberg were to be traded, what is his value?"

For everyone who wants to show his or her hockey "knowledge" by shooting down the stupid proposal, let me say that everyone is very impressed. Perhaps you all can collectively open a consulting service that confused fantasy hockey team owners can contract to. I can imagine the conversations - "Hi, I own a fantasy team and am wondering if I should trade Forsberg for Huselius and a 5th." - "You IDIOT. FORSBERG IS UNTOUCHABLE. YOU SHOULD NOT EVEN BE CALLING. I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE EVEN SUGGESTING IT! WHO IS SCREENING MY CALLS TODAY?" You all could yell at your clients and charge them too. Win-win.
well how about this then...he has hardly any trade value...he is most likely going to Europe for the rest of his career so it would be only a rental for this years playoffs...that puts his trade value as that same as Zhamnovs was...so a playoff team could give Colorado 2 medium level prospects and a 2nd rounder...ok so he is best player in the world...but still a rental...maybe a team would throw in a first rounder...

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02-29-2004, 03:46 PM
  #19
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Just wanted to thank floop for the defense.

In this thread, I gave you guys my thoughts and concerns, and wanted to see what he could hypothetically fetch on the open market.

Something along the lines of 15 posters have told me it's got no chance of happening, and that I'm crazy to even consider it.

But, it's my opinion. I would like to see trade possibilities for Forsberg, even if they're theoretical (which, of course, almost every trade proposal here IS).

I can't believe that an opinion would be shot down this harshly.
I heard that these forums were great, free of the regular bashers you find on other boards.

For most of the time, it's a more mature level, but still, some of you guys could really use a lesson on how to let other people present thoughts or voice opinions without trashing them.

Consider it, that's all I'm saying.

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02-29-2004, 07:07 PM
  #20
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well whats the point of speculating the trade value of someone who won't be traded. We could waste time talking about what Columbus would like in return for Rick Nash and what Atlanta would like for Kovalchuk, but whats the point?

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02-29-2004, 09:48 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinkrantz
For most of the time, it's a more mature level, but still, some of you guys could really use a lesson on how to let other people present thoughts or voice opinions without trashing them.

Consider it, that's all I'm saying.
Martin, you want to know the hypothetical value of a player who simply will not be traded. I understand that this may be of value to you but consider that hypothesis have to be worked on *something*. It's simply very difficult to give you the answer to the question you are asking.

I completely disagree witth you, BTW. Now is not the time to trade Peter Forsberg. It would be crazy to do so.

You've had a couple of answers to your question. Some people have spoken about one first rounder or "not much". Discard that nonsense. The big teams would offer much more for Forsberg, knowing they've just destroyed the Avs franchise by doing so on top of adding one of the greatest force in the game.

I do not think it is disrepectful to tell you this cannot and will not happen under the current circumstances. You're question is irrelevant not only because this is a strategic suicide from an on-ice standpoint but because it completely ignores important aspects such as caring about your market and team morale.

It's just not easy to wonder what would happen if a completely impossible situation was to happen. There is no precedent for what you are asking. How the heck is someone supposed to answer this? A great team, finances are fine, player is considered one of the premier forwad in the league (even considered the best player at any poistion by some), player is happy with team, player is well-respected by peers league-wide and moreso within his team.

We're supposed to wonder what the Avs would ask for and what other teams would be willing to offer? Based on what?

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02-29-2004, 10:01 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Martin, you want to know the hypothetical value of a player who simply will not be traded. I understand that this may be of value to you but consider that hypothesis have to be worked on *something*. It's simply very difficult to give you the answer to the question you are asking.

I completely disagree witth you, BTW. Now is not the time to trade Peter Forsberg. It would be crazy to do so.

You've had a couple of answers to your question. Some people have spoken about one first rounder or "not much". Discard that nonsense. The big teams would offer much more for Forsberg, knowing they've just destroyed the Avs franchise by doing so on top of adding one of the greatest force in the game.

I do not think it is disrepectful to tell you this cannot and will not happen under the current circumstances. You're question is irrelevant not only because this is a strategic suicide from an on-ice standpoint but because it completely ignores important aspects such as caring about your market and team morale.

It's just not easy to wonder what would happen if a completely impossible situation was to happen. There is no precedent for what you are asking. How the heck is someone supposed to answer this? A great team, finances are fine, player is considered one of the premier forwad in the league (even considered the best player at any poistion by some), player is happy with team, player is well-respected by peers league-wide and moreso within his team.

We're supposed to wonder what the Avs would ask for and what other teams would be willing to offer? Based on what?

Well did the Oilers ever envision trading Gretzky in his prime to LA in the mid-eighties? The notion of Forsberg getting traded does sound ridiculous, but any player can still be had for the right price. A few seasons ago, Yzerman could've been traded to NJ, but luckily it didn't happen, who would've thought that Bourque wouldn't remain a Bruin, etc? Far-fetched, but impossible.

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02-29-2004, 10:30 PM
  #23
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Quote:
well whats the point of speculating the trade value of someone who won't be traded. We could waste time talking about what Columbus would like in return for Rick Nash and what Atlanta would like for Kovalchuk, but whats the point?
There are two that immediately spring to mind:

First and foremost, as long as you have a group of people interested in discussing a topic that is valid for the board on which it is posted, you have little right to barge in and claim that the topic is bogus and should be erased. Your best course of action upon finding a thread in which you have nothing useful to add would be to utilize the "back" button on your browser, and continue down the list until you find a topic you are interested in reading, or for which you have some input. Your "what's the point?" posting is nothing but noise.

And second, unlike walking into the local 7-11 and checking out the price tag on a can of chili, Peter Forsberg does not come with a bar-coded price tag under his number. Therefore, to ascertain his value, one can only speculate. The process of putting forth a speculation as to Forsberg's worth (given a certain set of constraints, like the team he is on, his salary, pending status, desires to return to his homeland, affects in and out of the locker room, etc.) and then discussing and honing in on a reasonable solution set is a mental game that a lot of hockey fans find exciting. It is the premise around which fantasy leagues are built, and it seems that there are as many, if not more, fantasy hockey leagues that those of other sports.

I think many of us have idealized assumptions when making a post, hoping the conversation would go something like this:
-IF TOR wanted to rent Forsberg they would have to give up 2 number ones and Stajan and perhaps another.
-That seems like a lot, had you considered this fact
-No, I hadn't considered that fact, but it is reasonable
-I think we would all agree that any team would have to overpay
-Whether TOR would be crazy enough to send Stajan and Steen and 2 number ones isn't the point. I think the point is if PL got this package, he would have to consider it hard.
-He would have to consider it because it's a lot, and this looks like a ballpark range for what a Forsberg rental package might look like, but we also have to consider this other fact...
-Oh yeah, that's a really good point, .... etc.

Unfortunately, this type of hypothetical "what-if" dialog, even though these boards are the ideal place for it, rarely occurs.

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03-01-2004, 12:12 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
Well did the Oilers ever envision trading Gretzky in his prime to LA in the mid-eighties? The notion of Forsberg getting traded does sound ridiculous, but any player can still be had for the right price. A few seasons ago, Yzerman could've been traded to NJ, but luckily it didn't happen, who would've thought that Bourque wouldn't remain a Bruin, etc? Far-fetched, but impossible.
I understand what you are saying. However, one would have to come up with a more fleshed out scenario. It would help if the hypothetical scenario (a desire to trade Forsberg) had some nice hypothetical reasons behind it. Then we'd beable to extrapolate. It boggles the mind to imagine Lacroix or the ownership even thinking about this. The situations you cited (never heard about Yzerman, though) had reasons. The Oils couldn't pay Gretz, Bourque wanted a cup and the Bruins were going nowehere near that. But the Avs? Perennial contenders, plenty of money and a happy and ultra-productive Forsberg. They're certainly not going to trade him because he dives or has similarities with Cornelius.

All I know is that under the conditions right now, Forsberg would have a big price tag. Rental or not. From the side of the Avs, he just means too much for them. From the side of whoever would be getting him, it's just a great occasion to greatly improve your team and severely hurt the Avs.

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03-01-2004, 07:57 AM
  #25
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Silly to think about any trades involving Forsberg. Because your question was based on nothing, my answer will be too.

Forsberg to Atlanta
Kovalchuk and Lehtonen to Avs


And neither team would do this trade. Atlanta would not gain anything from it, just lose their future for a few regular season games. Avs would not give away Foppa before a playoff run.

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