The reason to start this thread up is that it is very obvious after the early season that the refs are more committed to calling the book. Games with unbalanced calls are occurring far more frequently. The calls are tighter but it may only be the early season push by the refs to bring players into conformity. If it continues I would set call levels at 6, 8 and 10 for loose, mid and tight. I am seeing a lot of pairings where they have a good skater with a poor skater; again, much more than in the past. These are small things that many may not notice, but IMO credit is due to Walkom for progress in the issue of officiating the game well.
I want this thread to be a place where people can ask questions or make observations. There will be a second post with some of the things which can be observed by all of you. By collecting this, it can contribute to our overall enjoyment of the games as fans and a little better understanding of what is going on with the officials.
(I would appreciate it if Nem or Wild or PI would post a link to this thread in PI's links post at the top of the forum)
Here are some guidelines for evaluating skating/positioning for refs:
1. The in-zone ref should be as close as possible to the puck without interfering with the play. Failing that, he should seek a position on the ice that is out of the play but with a clear line of sight to the puck.
2. When there is a scrum at the goal, the ref should seek a spot at the back of the net but out of the play.
3. Gold stars go to refs who can backskate a turn while keeping continuous vision on the puck.
4. Gold stars for refs who can move to and from the boards to avoid pucks and who have feet that are fast enough to step over passes. This is significantly affected by their ability to skate turns with their heads up and continuously on the puck.
5. Gold stars to refs who read the flow of the play so that they are executing their movement so as not to impede players.
6. Speed is nice for skating, but balance is far more critical to quality officiating. Good backskating is essential.
7. (added) The ref covering the zone to which the puck is transitioning should be substantially ahead of the players. This is both a positioning and skating quality. A good 15-20 foot lead on the players at all times is exceptional. Trailing any players is subpar. Part of this quality is reading the play.
Terminology:
Lead is the in-zone ref.
Trail is the ref in the neutral zone.
I use whiff to denote bad calls or what others might term phantom calls.
I use non-call to denote an infraction committed that is not called by the refs.
General observation on call levels (loose/tight):
Currently, 6 infractions or less of obstruction or safety calls, I consider loose.
7 to 9 infractions of the same type is mid-level.
10 or more is tight.
The numbers can change if the refs call early and the players conform their play.
General observation on missing calls:
In reviewing games, the tightest reviewer (he was a low level hockey ref) could see a well called game with 50% of infractions called. For other reviewers with a less keen eye 67% to 75% would mean a well called game. Each person has to adjust their judgment to what they can see as missed and compare to games that they have previously witnessed. It is literally impossible for a ref to call every infraction because they won't see them all. A major question is if the refs call at the same level for each infraction. If they call a slight tug a hook on one player and not on another, that is not OK.
The biggest issue was whiffs. The refs are generally good about not making complete phantom calls. More than a single whiff in a game is very poor. By rough count in last year's playoffs, a total of three whiffs through all games had the ref dropped from the rotation.
Cooperation:
A good ref pairing uses lead/trail effectively. The lead ref should have about 60% of the calls. It is not good if the lead is making all calls in the game.
The lead ref drops the puck at the start of the period. Most pairs have traditionally had the senior ref drop for the 1st and 3rd periods while the junior does the 2nd. That lead generally is the zone official. Refs are smart. The lead generally ends up in the active zone. He will start there on the powerplay. The pairs generally read the flow of play to place the lead in the most active zone as well for even strength play (eg if JT's line is dominating, the lead will take the Sharks offensive zone when JT comes in for a faceoff). The tradition of periods for lead/trail, senior/junior seems to be changing. I have seen several games recently where the junior drops first and third and is generally lead ref.
I would appreciate contributions from anyone here who takes note of these things, especially on non-Sharks games. It has taken a long time and a number of games with each ref to get the skating and it is still incomplete. I hope that the descriptions in this post give all of you an idea of what I am looking for when giving you the brief descriptions on the refs.
For Reviewers:
Please lead off with the teams, date and ref pair on any review.
The first paragraph should cover the tone of the game or possibly a game summary. In addition, skating notes need to be near the top of the thread. Notes about lead and subordinate refs are also appropriate in the first paragraph. Ref cooperation should be noted in the first paragraph, including cooperation with linesmen.
The subsequent paragraphs should break down the game by ref or by period. If by ref, it should be ordered sequentially (by period). Non-calls and calls should be noted with level. Noteworthy good non-calls should be noted.
When we really get formal, a total of minors PP, minors matching, majors, majors matching should be given for the game for each team. Missed calls should be tallied by team as well.
Reviewers are free to verbally summarize the game in a final paragraph. They may also assign a letter grade to each ref. If possible the letter grade should be assigned to each of several categories, skating, safety, fairness and call quality, for each ref.
thanks sjeasy. I always enjoy seeing you evaluation.
I think one thing I take for granted with the refs is the fact they are usually in great condition. Skating back and forth for a 60 minutes. Not an easy task. It make me wonder how they did it in a one ref system. In a way it leave me with knowledge it isn't exactly easy at the end of a game sometimes to be in the right spot.
btw, i am just wondering - was there ever a ref that called a penalty but then changed his mind after having a conversation with a player (not the victim)? cuz it seems that many times players are trying to argue, so i'm wondering is there even a point in it?
thanks sjeasy. I always enjoy seeing you evaluation.
I think one thing I take for granted with the refs is the fact they are usually in great condition. Skating back and forth for a 60 minutes. Not an easy task. It make me wonder how they did it in a one ref system. In a way it leave me with knowledge it isn't exactly easy at the end of a game sometimes to be in the right spot.
They now have mandated conditioning levels and testing. Continued failure on tests is reason for termination regardless of seniority.
I've always had a silly question about Refs. Why do they toss people out of the Face-off circle. They seem to really pick on Thornton about this all the time and he never really does anything to warrant getting kicked out.
I've always had a silly question about Refs. Why do they toss people out of the Face-off circle. They seem to really pick on Thornton about this all the time and he never really does anything to warrant getting kicked out.
It is all about positioning I believe. You get tossed out if you are trying to "cheat." Cheating would be jumping the gun on the drop or being in an advantageous position
Awesome work as always SJeasy, thanks so much for sharing it with us! I had one question that was bugging me the other day you might know the answer to. I was wondering if the refs usually work with the same partners, or if they're just sorta randomly mixed together (same with linesman, I guess). Related to that, do you know if the refs usually (or some more than others) sort of discuss how they plan to call things with their partners? Do the two refs working a game usually try to stay on the same page (is it the job of the non-lead ref to follow the others lead, as it were)?
Thanks again for all the insights, I think it's definitely one of the best things about the boards here, I learn new things every day and I'm starting to get a feel for which refs I like and which I don't (Tim Peel still wins in my mind for when I noticed him being awesome during a playoff game I attended last Spring. Pretty rare for me to notice the little things a ref does, like jumping on the net to find the puck, in live at a game).
One of Easy's post from last year. I would appreciate a list of who you think are the best and worst as well. Perhaps you have had enough time to evaluate Auger, Ciamaga, and Vanfield
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy
15 Auger, Stephane NHL 9/1/1994
Calls moderately tight. No other comments.
44 Banfield, David AHL / NHL
New. No comments. I have not seen him ref an NHL game.
41 Ciamaga, Chris AHL / NHL 9/1/2006
New. No comments. IIRC, has only reffed preseason games.
10 Devorski, Paul NHL 9/1/1987
Calls loose with the exception of safety infractions (crosscheck, high stick, boarding, etc.) Very even tempered and fair.
39 Dwyer, Gord NHL 9/1/2003
Relatively new. Seems to call tight when left to his own devices. Excellent skater.
2 Fraser, Kerry NHL 9/1/1973
Calls loose. Does tend to control games and when not tolerate argument. Follows the philosophy of ref not deciding game. Will not initiate calls in the third period and will equalize a partner's call in that period. Can read the play and skates reasonably well for an older ref.
27 Furlatt, Eric NHL 9/1/1998
Calls moderately tight. Good skater. Seems to be one of the golden boys for the league among the younger refs. Has seen frequent playoff assignments.
30 Hasenfratz, Mike NHL 9/1/2000
Mid-group on tight vs. loose. OK skater. His focus seems to frequently drift off the puck where he will make calls away from the play but can miss infractions around the puck for this reason. Review group was still trying to figure him out at the end of the season.
8 Jackson, Dave NHL 9/1/1989
Calls loose. The review group was not impressed with his calls.
25 Joannette, Marc NHL 9/1/1993
Calls extremely loose. The review group was very unimpressed. Subpar skating/reading of play.
18 Kimmerly, Greg NHL 9/1/1993
Calls loose. Excellent skater and can read the play.
12 Koharski, Don NHL 9/1/1977
Calls tight, most tight among veteran refs. Will not tolerate argument. Skating is subpar. Seems to be assigned to revenge matches meaning that he will address excessive infractions well.
32 Kowal, Tom NHL 9/1/1998
Started last year tight and got loose. Good skater. Maintains positive demeanor even if hot situations.
40 Kozari, Steve AHL / NHL 9/1/2003
Mid group on tight/loose. This is his first year as a full time ref. Despite limited reviews, he was involved in a game which got out of hand. No positive reviews in the limited number of games reviewed.
14 LaRue, Dennis NHL 9/1/1989
Extremely tight on calls. Frequently calls weak infractions. One of a very few US-born refs. The group liked tight callers but LaRue was too tight and not quite consistent.
48 L'Ecuyer, Frederick AHL / NHL 9/1/2006
No reviews. He had his first games this year as a substitute ref.
28 Lee, Chris NHL 9/1/1999
Mid group on tight/loose. Frequently seemed to disappear. Not good at reading the play.
3 Leggo, Mike NHL 9/1/1996
Extremely loose on calls. My nickname for him is "Let it go". OK skater.
6 Marouelli, Dan NHL 9/1/1982
Extremely loose on calls. Seemed to lose control of more games than all other refs. Was the worst rated ref for calling safety infractions. Because of this, my nickname for him was "Body Bags".
26 Martell, Rob NHL 9/1/1992
Mid group on tight/loose. Seemed to do well by supplementing a veteran ref with trail calls. Has no playoff games which is significant considering his years in the league. Wallflower is a descriptor that he earned among the group.
4 McCauley, Wes NHL 9/1/2001
Slightly loose caller. First playoff experience last year. Good skater. Is considered by many players as a favorite ref.
7 McCreary, Bill NHL 9/1/1982
Loose caller. Skates well for an older ref but seems to stay too far away from the play. Fewest fighting majors for a full-time ref. Was considered a poor ref by the review group.
19 McGeough, Michael NHL 9/1/1986
Slightly loose caller. Skating subpar. Despite having some monumentally bad calls was considered fair by the group. The group had no problems with his demonstrative calls as long as they were good. Will not be swayed by argument.
34 Meier, Brad NHL 9/1/1994
Mid group on tight/loose. Was not favored by the review group. For a ref of his tenure, he has very few playoff games. He is one of the few US-born refs.
36 Morton, Dean AHL / NHL 9/1/1999
Substitute ref. He had a couple of good reviews, but not enough to get a read on his calls.
13 O'Halloran, Dan NHL 9/1/1992
Mid group on tight/loose. Had a few good games.
42 O'Rourke, Dan NHL 9/1/1999
Mid group on tight/loose. Had a few good games. Was impressed by a couple of his playoff games last year. Good skater.
20 Peel, Tim NHL 9/1/1995
Loose caller. Stepped up his call levels in the playoffs. He frequently had the fewest calls per game of any ref although it didn't drop his rating that far. That indicates that he is a talker.
43 Pochmara, Brian AHL / NHL 9/1/2002
Substitute ref. He had a couple of good games last year.
33 Pollock, Kevin NHL 9/1/1997
Mid group on tight/loose. Subpar on skating and reading the play. Seemed to be assigned to revenge matches and made no bones about bringing play under control. Seems to be a golden boy of the league by his assignments.
37 Rehman, Kyle AHL / NHL
New ref. No games yet.
5 Rooney, Chris NHL 9/1/1996
Tight caller. Had the most calls per game of all refs and would occasionally call weak infractions. Good skater. He is one of the few US-born refs. Of the US guys, he is the choice for the playoffs of the review group.
16 Shick, Rob NHL 9/1/1984
Moderately tight caller. Good on reading the play and positioning. His nickname is Razor and he is that sharp.
38 StLaurent, Francois AHL / NHL 9/1/2003
Substitute ref. Seems to be a loose caller. The review group had no impressive games for him.
45 StPierre, Justin NHL 9/1/2003
Loose caller?. He seemed to call tighter in a couple of games when left to his own devices.
11 Sutherland, Kelly NHL 9/1/1999
Tight caller. Had relatively few infractions despite tightness of calls. Audio pickup revealed that he is a talker. Excellent skater and excellent in reading play. He appears to be a golden boy by his assignments reaching the second round of the playoffs earlier than any other ref with his experience.
21 VanMassenhoven, Don NHL 7/15/1992
Mid group on tight/loose. Does not get involved in arguments. Has been assigned to revenge matches. Will toss in an extra roughing penalty to send message to coaches to get players under control. Skating is subpar.
29 Walsh, Ian NHL 9/1/1996
Loose caller. Subpar skater and does not read play well. He is another ref where we felt that wallflower might apply.
35 Warren, Dean NHL 9/1/1992
Mid group on tight/loose. Had some good games.
23 Watson, Brad NHL 9/1/1993
Mid group on tight/loose. The group was not impressed with his games. He had a few get out of control.
why does it seem like the interference is reverting back to the ways of the pre-lockout nhl
specifically, when a guy dumps it in and the dman is all over him and it isnt called. that was a penalty right after the lockout and now it isnt anymore.
It is all about positioning I believe. You get tossed out if you are trying to "cheat." Cheating would be jumping the gun on the drop or being in an advantageous position
I could understand that, but most of the time it seems like they are tossing people out "just for the hell of it." In the case of Thornton, it's like he never does anything and they throw him out. It seems like it's a discretionary call and not really based on anything.
Chelios on local Detroit radio says that refs are being directed to call "evening up" penalties.
Thanks LS. I don't know how much I trust him because the boxscores contradict the directive. I looked at so many when I did the review stats and the same ones this year are much more out of balance. Maybe the refs missed that memo. That isn't to say that some refs may very well equalize on their own (Fraser, Marouelli) or that some ref may have said that to him to pacify him at some point (I really wouldn't put that one past some refs).
On the faceoff question, it isn't necessarily the centerman who commits the infraction. It can be a teammate and the centerman is still tossed.
MT,
On Auger, he is sort of a blah ref. I never picked up why he is not in favor with the brass although I reviewed many of his games. He was one where he didn't do anything outstandingly bad or outstandingly good.
On Ciamaga and Banfield, I will try to do the game if I see them up. But, they are only part time so not a lot of games. If they don't get games where they are lead, it is really hard to get a read on their calling style or skating. I had one Banfield game last year where he was like Auger, neither very bad nor very good and he was lead (supervision game with McGeough). I don't have a good read on St. Pierre because most of his games were as junior.
CZC,
They mix them up. It used to be more random. I have really noted an effort this year to have good skater/poor skater pairs. Poor/Poor is pretty rare. They used to keep pairs together almost all season. The mixing is ostensibly to enhance their learning (probably keeps bad partners from killing each other as well). They do discuss before the game and between periods. They will frequently go to the teams and tell them how they will call before games. If they have a new league directive, that is when they can reinforce that they will be enforcing a new level on a particular call. The senior ref receives pre-game calls from league offices and is responsible for the pair. The call levels generally follow the style of the senior ref so I would assume that they have final say. I have seen several exceptions to the call level rule of thumb this year (one of the reasons for this thread).
why does it seem like the interference is reverting back to the ways of the pre-lockout nhl
specifically, when a guy dumps it in and the dman is all over him and it isnt called. that was a penalty right after the lockout and now it isnt anymore.
One of my pet peeves. From watching and from a little I heard, they lightened up. Effectively, the directive is to allow the defensive player to turn and take a direct line to the puck and to have a count from the release of the dump in to the time where contact isn't allowed. From the reviews and what I am currently seeing, many dmen have perfected the art of turning into the path of the oncoming player while taking a direct line to the puck. Just because the radius of their turn is a little wide (Arghhhh!). The three dmen who walk the line on the call the most are Pronger, Foote and Blake.
One of my pet peeves. From watching and from a little I heard, they lightened up. Effectively, the directive is to allow the defensive player to turn and take a direct line to the puck and to have a count from the release of the dump in to the time where contact isn't allowed. From the reviews and what I am currently seeing, many dmen have perfected the art of turning into the path of the oncoming player while taking a direct line to the puck. Just because the radius of their turn is a little wide (Arghhhh!). The three dmen who walk the line on the call the most are Pronger, Foote and Blake.
yeah I noticed Blake is fairly effective at that and the rest of d corps is picking up on it.
On the faceoffs, like Pavelski said on the Sharkbite, if you are not cheating you are not trying.
Kind of a dumb request from me but SJeasy can you list your nicknames for some of the more inept refs? Tim "Let It Go" and "Inaction" Jackson are pretty good.
Kind of a dumb request from me but SJeasy can you list your nicknames for some of the more inept refs? Tim "Let It Go" and "Inaction" Jackson are pretty good.
Dave "Inaction" Jackson
Mike "Let it go" Leggo
Dan "See No Evil" Marouelli AKA "Body Bags"
Rob "Razor" Shick (positive connotation)
Kelly "Ice Capades" Sutherland (positive connotation)
Kerry "AquaNet" Fraser
I have a couple of others but they aren't really set in stone. I dropped a couple because they really aren't appropriate anymore. Since the reviews started Peel, Koharski and Joannette have demonstrably improved.
Do the refs actually review the analysis you guys do or is it just 3rd party statistical analysis for the edification of the general public?
As fans and independently, we did a very detailed review and analysis of calls the season before last. I am not up to handling the statistical compilation anymore. There were 5 reviewers where we successfully recorded complete reviews for 20 games or more of each of the full time refs. Last year I focused on ref skating, but I didn't have time to get enough of all refs. A couple of the other reviewers helped with that during the review year. I did do a lot of playoffs last year catching a rough review on almost all playoff refs. That playoff review helped to refine conclusions and indicate that some of the refs have dramatically stepped up their game.
There is enough evidence in observation to indicate that there have been major changes in emphasis for the refs and major changes in the way that they go about their business. Those changes are for the better.
I've always had a silly question about Refs. Why do they toss people out of the Face-off circle. They seem to really pick on Thornton about this all the time and he never really does anything to warrant getting kicked out.
One of my favorite Sharkbyte moments was when Thornton was asked why he was always getting kicked out of the faceoff circle and he smiled and said "because I cheat"
Thanks for all your work on this thread SJeasy!
__________________
History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
One of my favorite Sharkbyte moments was when Thornton was asked why he was always getting kicked out of the faceoff circle and he smiled and said "because I cheat"
Thanks for all your work on this thread SJeasy!
So him being in the Face Off circle is kind of like a timeout for the Sharks because it takes time to switch players? Interesting.
So him being in the Face Off circle is kind of like a timeout for the Sharks because it takes time to switch players? Interesting.
Actually sometimes I think that is a tactic, but I think Joe was saying he's almost always trying to cheat a little and a many times you get away with it and get the edge.
Move Joannette #25 permanently to mid-level on calls. Good on skating, excellent on positioning. Peel moves to the same spot with the same attributes on skating.
Dwyer #19 (previously #39) gets an excellent on skating. Positioning not noted yet.
Koharski #12 is ducking his head a lot on turns and combining that with slow foot speed. That will probably drop his call level. He should be working strictly as a trail ref.
Kowal #32 is becoming more assertive in his calls. Less "friendly" on the ice. This may be a good thing.
O'Halloran #13 permanently moves to loose caller.
LZ,
If you want to make a table, I will continue adding notes so that we can have a ref reference table.
That isn't to say that some refs may very well equalize on their own (Fraser, Marouelli) or that some ref may have said that to him to pacify him at some point (I really wouldn't put that one past some refs).
). They do discuss before the game and between periods. They will frequently go to the teams and tell them how they will call before games. If they have a new league directive, that is when they can reinforce that they will be enforcing a new level on a particular call. The senior ref receives pre-game calls from league offices and is responsible for the pair. The call levels generally follow the style of the senior ref so I would assume that they have final say. I have seen several exceptions to the call level rule of thumb this year (one of the reasons for this thread).
. The three dmen who walk the line on the call the most are Pronger, Foote and Blake.
